On Fakes

Still pretty new here, and am still shopping for that Tele that speaks to me. Forgive me if this isn't the right place for this thread, but after reading a thread in a different forum I became curious as to how common this problem is in the Tele/Fender world.

Like I said, I was reading a thread in another forum. The subject was about a guitar that the OP thought might be a fake Epiphone, yes you read that right, Epiphone Les Paul. This problem seems to be common in the Gibson/Epiphone world. People will build a guitar to specs and sell them as originals on places like E-bay.

I am wondering how common this is in the world to Tele/Fender et. al. ?

It seems that it might not be that big of a problem since it is fairly chic to own/build a partscaster, but I could be wrong.

Bump

74 views and not a single answer.

I did a search on fakes and it really didn't give me a whole lot.

I can't say much more than I see Fender logo's, necks, neck plates, ETC slapped on many a tele that has never been to a fender factory..

Doesn't mean they are not outstanding players, just not collectable...

I can't give you numbers, but it does happen. There are factories in China that put out fakes all day long.

China seems to rip off every guitar company.

China seems to rip off every company.


FIFY :mrgreen:

FIFY :mrgreen:

Quite right! The Chinese are masters of the reverse engineer. Something new comes out, they buy it and take it apart to learn how it's built so they can copy it. Sometimes they do a really excellent job, most of the time the also figure out where to cut corners to make it less expensive to build. Buyer beware!

FIFY :mrgreen:

:mrgreen:

I can't say much more than I see Fender logo's, necks, neck plates, ETC slapped on many a tele that has never been to a fender factory..

Doesn't mean they are not outstanding players, just not collectable...

Quite right! The Chinese are masters of the reverse engineer. Something new comes out, they buy it and take it apart to learn how it's built so they can copy it. Sometimes they do a really excellent job, most of the time the also figure out where to cut corners to make it less expensive to build. Buyer beware!

These statements make me think that it is a little bit more accepted in the Fender world though.

If its made from different parts its a partscaster. If the seller says it's something that it isn't than its a fake. How often does it happen, how would anybody know.

For someone who's been playing guitar for 44 years, it's clear to me that counterfeits are a bigger issue than ever, especially since up until relatively recently it was mostly a non-issue. Sure, there have always been people around who could counterfeit valuable guitars and do Les Paul "conversions" of gold top P90 instruments to PAF-equipped sunburst flame tops, for example, but it's only been recently that it's gotten to the point where counterfeits are a real issue in the world of inexpensive to moderately-priced guitars and I have to tell younger kids who are buying their first guitar to be wary of guitars that are fradulently advertised and sold.

Look how many "real or fake?" threads you see on TDPRI alone...counterfeits are becoming a bigger and bigger issue especially with the explosion of eBay and Craig's List.

It saddens me to think that a kid might work his or her tail off to get a nice guitar for themselves and unknowingly buy a counterfeit. I have the advantage of having seen literally thousands of vintage and new guitars during my life, but not everyone has. Buy books, educate yourself, go to vintage and new guitar stores, study everything in obsessive compulsive detail and you'll get a better and better feel for when something looks authentic and when something looks fishy. It can be a little challenging when it comes to Fenders because there are so many variations in the logos, but that's part of the fun of it!

Also keep in mind that there are always one-offs, especially in the vintage world, that might seem weird but are in fact original. I once saw a "marlin burst" blue-sliver sunburst early '60s Fender Jaguar with a finish that was never documented in any catalog, yet was 100 percent original. Also a bright yellow early '70s Telecaster Thinline that hung in a music store for years, and some other examples I can't think of right now.

Well to answer your question about fake Fenders it's infinitely easier to cobble together parts for a simple guitar with a bolt on neck like a Tele than it is to fake a set neck guitar like a Gibson or an Epi. Most of those would be Chinese copies using the same headstock designs and labeling as the real thing so in effect they're a forgery. A close examination usually reveals them for the cheap copies they are.

But there are also legitimate foreign builders who build and market copies under their own brand name. They may be direct copies which violate patents or trademarks but at least they're not forgeries because there's no attempt to deceive the buyer. In either case they're seldom of equal quality to the real thing so it's buyer beware. Epi's aren't all that expensive to begin with so to me it makes little sense on gambling on anything you can't verify to be legit.

More often than not Fenders simply tend to be misrepresented as opposed to forgeries. Partscasters are often advertised as something they are not. Some are pretty obvious but others not so much. It seems to me that most of these tend to be advertised as MIA or Special models when they're not since those would be worth two to three times as much as an MIM or a Partscaster may sell for. The other fakes tend to be represented as vintage instruments which sell for thousands if they are legit.

Many of the members here are pretty astute at picking out Vintage fakes or Partscasters being advertised as something else just from photos. There's usually a tip off somewhere and it's amazing just how obvious some are. In other cases you need to disassemble the guitar to get a look at serial numbers and for other signs of legitimacy.

So it happens and as has been said with the frequency of sales taking place over the internet or CL it's probably happening more now than ever before so buying sight unseen without recourse is risky. The best thing a buyer can do is to deal with sources he trusts and/or get the opinions and feedback of members here with enough experience to provide a qualified opinion.

While it's not 100% guaranteed buying from those members on the board with items for sale in the classifieds is usually a much safer approach than buying from a stranger online. 99.9% of us would never risk our reps by trying to screw someone over. But if you do buy online do so from those with high ratings over many sales and avoid dealing with those who don't. That's your best protection.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

These statements make me think that it is a little bit more accepted in the Fender world though.


Not really more accepted, just easier to do.. A fender neck can be added to any solid body and instantly at first glance it appears to be a fender.. Do people do it to fool a unsuspecting buyer.. Usually not, a lot of people choose to piece together their own unique body and electronics and go with a fender neck because they like the way it plays rather than the name.. OR at least I hope that is the case.. I could care less what a headstock says as long as it feels great under my hands when I am working up and down the neck..

Most people who make partscasters are pretty quick to tell you it is not a fender.. I have never been a fan of getting a aftermarket neck and slapping a fender decal on the head.... Some people are just picky about stuff like that..

My next tele will have K-line on the headstock.. it will not be a fake.. ;)

China seems to rip off every guitar company.

I can't give you numbers, but it does happen. There are factories in China that put out fakes all day long.

FIFY :mrgreen:

Quite right! The Chinese are masters of the reverse engineer. Something new comes out, they buy it and take it apart to learn how it's built so they can copy it. Sometimes they do a really excellent job, most of the time the also figure out where to cut corners to make it less expensive to build. Buyer beware!

Sometimes it might not even be a fake since many are made over there (China, Korea, etc...) already anyway. They might just run off an extra thousand or so that don't quite make it to the Epiphone truck...:rolleyes:

The misrepresentations I've hapoened to notice on ebay looked like parts from sx guitars swapped out for fender or squire.. you could ask for photos of the body w/o pickguard, look for the usual stamps and stuff

Epi's aren't all that expensive to begin with so to me it makes little sense on gambling on anything you can't verify to be legit.


Hope this answers some of your questions.

Yes it does. Thank you all for giving me the skinny on how this fits into the Fender world. These posts are most helpful.

As far as the Epi. counterfeits, soulman969, this is exactly why I am amazed at the counterfeit trend with them. In the Gibson world it seems that people find them on a daily basis on E-bay and Craigslist. The Les Paul forums are full of them, but like you said, why risk it over a 2-3 hundred dollar guitar? But it happens. Often. Like, ever other day often.

Anyhow, this is all good info. I am STILL in the market of getting a reasonably priced Tele that speaks to me, and will, hopefully sooner than later, and this will keep me on my toes as to what to be aware of...sort of?