Bob Dylan's first Strat in dispute

Bob Dylan's first electric guitar is in dispute. Great article in my local paper this morning.


http://www.telegram.com/article/20120712/NEWS/120719867/1312

"Bob Dylan and historians at PBS are in a dispute over the whereabouts of an electric guitar that the singer plugged in at the Newport Folk Festival in 1965, quite possibly the most historic single instrument in rock 'n' roll."

Really? The most historic single instrument in rock 'n' roll? More so than, oh, I don't know... the first strat Hendrix set on fire? Bo Diddley's homemade rectangular guitar? Micawber? Scotty Moore's ES-295? Paul McCartney's violin bass? Um... help me out here, guys...

I agree tpaul. Maybe not the best statement to make, but you have to admit it is an iconic guitar.

I think he went on stage with a harmonica too - where's the love for that?

I would say, you know Bob is right he must still have the guitar, therefore this is mine, and there is no ownership dispute. If it is Bob's, I don't see how the lady is entitled to keep the guitar.

As far as the history of the guitar, its pretty huge. It might not seem so now, but in the mid 60's Dylan was god.

here is a pic with the story

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/electric-guitar-bob-dylan-played-live-jersey-womans/story?id=16756688#.T_7Hs5GHNkg

"The guitar remains in a safe place," she wrote, "away from my home."

Good idea.

I would say, you know Bob is right he must still have the guitar, therefore this is mine, and there is no ownership dispute. If it is Bob's, I don't see how the lady is entitled to keep the guitar.

As far as the history of the guitar, its pretty huge. It might not seem so now, but in the mid 60's Dylan was god.

Oh, I agree about the enormity of Dylan's influence, and about the importance of the "going electric" moment. I'm just saying, there are probably more historic instruments. The importance of that moment wasn't that particular Strat... it was Dylan's choice to make the leap from acoustic folk music to something new. He could've grabbed any electric guitar for that purpose. A Tele, an LP, or a Gretsch hollowbody would have served the purpose equally well.

By contrast, there are instruments that are of greater importance because of what they are. Bo's guitar... one of a kind. Hendrix... his choice of the strat was integral to the music he was making; he could not have made the same sounds on any other guitar, and he probably can be credited with the incredible popularity of the strat over the past 40 years. You see what I mean?

But,,,, Dylan says he still has that Strat , and he should know. Argument over.

Anyone remember the Frazier episode, where Frazier and Niles have the Russian Bear Clock?

There just HAD to be a New Jersey connection.

Oh, I agree about the enormity of Dylan's influence, and about the importance of the "going electric" moment. I'm just saying, there are probably more historic instruments. The importance of that moment wasn't that particular Strat... it was Dylan's choice to make the leap from acoustic folk music to something new. He could've grabbed any electric guitar for that purpose. A Tele, an LP, or a Gretsch hollowbody would have served the purpose equally well.

By contrast, there are instruments that are of greater importance because of what they are. Bo's guitar... one of a kind. Hendrix... his choice of the strat was integral to the music he was making; he could not have made the same sounds on any other guitar, and he probably can be credited with the incredible popularity of the strat over the past 40 years. You see what I mean?

But the point is that the guitar is significant because Dylan played it at that moment. It doesn't matter what kind of guitar it was. It's like a historic baseball. No-one cares what brand of baseball Hank Aaron hit. The baseball is important because Hank Aaron hit it at that moment.
Specific guitars might be important to guitarists, but Dylan's guitar is important to music lovers.

I think the harmonica love is over on the Harmonica Re-issue site.
:-)
Scotty.

Of course, it's not his first electric guitar. His first guitar was an electric (a Silvertone, I believe), not an acoustic.

I think he went on stage with a harmonica too - where's the love for that?

In the same place that we keep the love for banjos and obnoxious drummers!

I would say, you know Bob is right he must still have the guitar, therefore this is mine, and there is no ownership dispute. If it is Bob's, I don't see how the lady is entitled to keep the guitar.

As far as the history of the guitar, its pretty huge. It might not seem so now, but in the mid 60's Dylan was god.

After close to 50 yrs gone by I'd say the person that possesses the guitar owns it. It's not like there's ever been a a reward offered for its return or even an interview with Dylan in which he mentions losing the guitar.

He says it's not the guitar, but he refuses to waive a claim on it?

Ok, I'll start the bidding at ten bucks.

But,,,, Dylan says he still has that Strat , and he should know. Argument over.

I agree, the other Strat was just left on the plane. No evidence that it was actually played at the time quoted.

The lady's claim is speculative that it is the one played. The burdon of proof is on her to prove it, but she can't. Her father the pilot is dead & I doubt he was at the gig in any case to see it played, then carried & left on the plane.

His bobblyness was at the gig, still has the Strat, he should know.

Nice guitar with a history in any case.

All just my opinion.:grin:

I hope I'll be able to sleep tonight, oh the agony. Bob Dylan is SUCH a player.

Strat...? Buddy Holly's...restored from the plane wreck by John Page.

http://www.buddyhollyandthecrickets.com/guitar.html

But Dylan sure pissed off the folkies with his...

Strat...? Buddy Holly's...restored from the plane wreck by John Page.

http://www.buddyhollyandthecrickets.com/guitar.html

But Dylan sure pissed off the folkies with his...

That Strat was not on the plane. The instruments rode with everybody else on the bus.

Persoanlly I think the whole thing is ridiculous since Dylan was signed to CBS and CBS owned Fender so Dylan probably had a strat for everyday of the week.

From my experience with Fender, I wouldn't want the Monday, or Friday one.

Dylan has Bloomfields and this is the real game changer? This calls for CSI New York.

Interesting though , if you watch the film of Newport, it was Mike Bloomfield's blazing Tele that put people so of kilter. My quess; Bridge PU, Twin on 10 with bright switch ON, treble on 10, .....Newport, meet Chicago....

That Strat was not on the plane. The instruments rode with everybody else on the bus

Well that explains it's good condition, the last strat he played...

LAT's take on this.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-ms-dylan-guitar-20120712,0,5423423.story

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According to many sources - people couldn't hear the vocals/thought it was too loud/were yelling or hooting for whatever reason but the famous full scale "booing" because he went electric is garbage.

Later on the '66 Europe tour ? Yeah - they booed/heckled.

By the way the Bootleg series of the Dylan '66 tour is phenomenal.


The Strat ?

It'll never be proven so it just remains one the most common vintage guitars ever made - a 60's sunburst Strat.

I guess it can't be proven 100%, but Andy Babiuk is a very well respected author and authority on vintage instruments...

"Luray took the guitar to Babiuk, an appraiser of instruments who consults for the rock hall. He took the guitar apart to find a date written inside (1964) that made its use in Newport plausible. He drew upon blown-up color photos from Newport to compare the wood grain on the guitar Dylan played that day to the one in his hands. He's confident it's a match, likening the wood grain to a fingerprint."


And after all, how good do you suppose Dylan's memory is these days? :shock:

Funny Dylan claims it was stolen. Didn't Dylan steal a Martin acoustic from someone in his Dinkytown days ?

Dylan has Bloomfields and this is the real game changer? This calls for CSI New York.

Dylan has it? Uh, oh...don't tell me we have to go through all this, again...

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-discussion-forum/191856-mike-bloomfields-telecaster.html

Really? The most historic single instrument in rock 'n' roll? More so than, oh, I don't know... the first strat Hendrix set on fire? Bo Diddley's homemade rectangular guitar? Micawber? Scotty Moore's ES-295? Paul McCartney's violin bass? Um... help me out here, guys...

I would put the strat Dylan played at Newport, where ever it may be, in that mix. The most? No one will ever settle that one. We could probably go through a few beers debating it though.

Who cares, it had a rosewood neck. (Ducks)

I would guess that dylan himself would know if he still has the guitar...but maybe he doesn't

I'd be interested in seeing that episode though

It will be interesting to see but I wish musicians were still the only one's interested in old guitars.

My mind is imagining Dylan has a locker or storage facility filled with things, like maybe a stack of mid sixties strats. He probably would have no idea which guitar he used if he had more than a couple that looked the same. As you guys have pointed out, he wasn't taking them out to the woodshed.

"Bob Dylan and historians at PBS are in a dispute over the whereabouts of an electric guitar that the singer plugged in at the Newport Folk Festival in 1965, quite possibly the most historic single instrument in rock 'n' roll."

Really? The most historic single instrument in rock 'n' roll? More so than, oh, I don't know... the first strat Hendrix set on fire? Bo Diddley's homemade rectangular guitar? Micawber? Scotty Moore's ES-295? Paul McCartney's violin bass? Um... help me out here, guys...


The Podunk Times is being hyperbolic? Well I never...

HELLO?! Blackie anyone?! SRV's number 1? After all, bob dylan isnt very rock n roll to me. i dont say this to start an argument. maybe this is the sort of thing thats a connection between cream and metal.

Some more iconic guitars that are more significant than Bob's Strat:

JH's Woodstock Strat
Alvin Lee's 335
EC's The Fool SG
John Lennon's Epi Rivera
Jeff Beck's Yardirds Tele
the list goes on...

Who else besides Dylan? Think about it. Seriously.

I'll bet you that John's Epi Casino is worth a whole lot more that most any other guitar is worth. I don't even know where that is kept. Yoko has it or maybe it's in a museum.I wonder where it is .

Everyone has their idea of the most valuable guitar, it's likely the first one that changed thier lives...

Mine? Well I love Michael Bloomfield, but I'd love to spend and hour or two with Poison Ivy's 59 Gretsch 6120, the first guitar that mattered - to me!

It's highly unlikely that Bob Dylan flew to this gig. And he rarely responds to this kind of stuff, so I'm guessing that he's pretty bothered that someone is trying to make some money off him and it's probably true that he still has the guitar.

Britt

The CNN version (http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/12/showbiz/music/bob-dylan-lost-guitar-rs/index.html) of the story-states that Dylan's Team "said that the guitar should be returned" from Dawn Peterson. If this guitar is not one of Bob's guitars, why the statement from his team?

This adds more to the mystery!

Interesting. Reminds me of the 1959 LP standard that was stolen of the stage and now the guy has been fighting to get it back for like 20 years. I don't remember the details obviously except that the judge said basically he was out of luck, statute of limitations had run out.

If she has the real guitar, it's hers until Bob buys it back.

I don't think anyone is doubting it's one of his guitars, just that it's THE guitar. I bet he had a few strats and accidentally left one behind on a plane. Who knows if it's the one he played at that particular show? However, I highly doubt he still has the one he played at Newport. From everything I've ever read, he doesn't seem that sentimental about things, especially guitars.

Well we all know the guitar that really mattered that day, and it was a white tele!

I think the sunburst looks different on stage at Newport in '65.
(here are some great color shots from close up) (http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Bob%20Dylan%20with%20Butterfield%20Band%20July% 2025%201965)
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3460/3268398296_042288fe81_o.jpg

Vs. the guitar in question, which appears to have a thicker/more diffused pass of red, leaving less yellow behind the bridge. I know the red tends to fade over the years (though this guitar looks like it barely saw the light of day!) but still, it just doesn't seem to match up.

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2012/07/12/5b/93/27a65f9af7184cbe8a9d0e85b06c54c2-98fdef2015da450eb964120d588b4fa7-0.jpg

What's with that painting behind them?! Blech! Apparently Thomas Kinkade left some paintings behind on the plane...

I just watched the show. They confirmed that it is the guitar that Dylan played by matching the grain from photos (along with serial number, neck dates and other marks). Streaks in the rosewood fingerboard and grain by the input jack match perfectly. As far as who owns it, all they said was Dylan's lawyers were contacted two years ago, they sent off some papers and the "owner" never heard from them again. The History Detectives made no claim as to who legally owns the guitar and are staying out of that aspect. Dylan's roadie confirmed the case as being stenciled with Dylan's company name that he used at the time for collecting artist's fees.

It'll be interesting what happens next. Personally I hope it ends up either at the RNRHOF or goes back to Dylan and not in a collector's case or some Hard Rock Cafe.

Hmmm.. Well, Bob probably just watched it too and is probably sitting back saying... "I could have sworn I had that guitar."

I saw that show on PBS, they matched it up via wood grain, which rarely, if ever, lies. If Dylan says its a fake, and he still has that strat, then put up or shut up, lets see it Bob!

After Freewheelin' I was a huge fan, but I tuned out for a year or so out till Highway 61. That got my juices running. The guitar model wasn't as important as the songs. Lyrics counted then... oh baby oh baby was over.

Oh God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son"
Abe says, "Man, you must be puttin' me on"
God say, "No." Abe say, "What ?"
God say, "You can do what you want Abe, but
The next time you see me comin' you better run"
Well Abe says, "Where do you want this killin' done ?"
God says. "Out on Highway 61".

yup jus' the lyrics and the harmonica, the rest is moot.

I doubted it until I saw the show. I don't think the sunburst matches very well. Looks to be the guitar, though.

I was surprised that it still had the original flatwound strings on it. May have to try that on mine.

Ok, I finally watched the show, and I now think that it's legit. They said that the guitar was used on several occasions after Monterey, so it's certainly possible that it was on a plane. That dismisses my theory that Bob didn't fly to the event like Al Kooper said.

But I still stand fast in my belief that the only guitar that mattered that day was Mike Bloomfield's white Tele.

Ok, I finally watched the show, and I now think that it's legit. They said that the guitar was used on several occasions after Monterey, so it's certainly possible that it was on a plane. That dismisses my theory that Bob didn't fly to the event like Al Kooper said.

But I still stand fast in my belief that the only guitar that mattered that day was Mike Bloomfield's white Tele.

+1
That's it! They're going to spin off the episode and look into Bloomfield's Tele!

But getting back to the strat... I think PBS did a good job of convincing me on this one. Though i get a laugh from this Roadshow clip every time I see it. It freaks me out when the "expert" cracks the neck off the body....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23PFF3E58wE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

We already found Bloomfields tele here on the forum!

After watching and thinking about it, IMHO, she has a stolen guitar.

Not to be a ball-buster :razz: but where is the proof that Dylan actually owned the strat? Did he hand pick the guitar in a store? Did management get it for him? Did Fender give it to him? If it was purchased, I'm sure any original receipt was gone years ago. It's been determined 99.9% positive by Mr. Babiuk that it was the guitar he played at the festival. But, if there wasn't a police report or insurance claim filed with the serial number and such back then, how is it determined who the rightful owner is today?

Even one statement from his management Mr. Zimmerman claimed that he still has the guitar he played Newport with. Who's to argue with Bob? I'm not wanting to stir up a hornet's nest. Just some thoughts I've had on this topic.

As a side note, last year as I was taking a walk in Fairport, NY, waiting for a wedding reception to begin, I stumbled upon Andy Babiuk's Fab Gear shop. It was somewhat small in physical size but it had some amazing vintage high end gear. The wall of guitars kind of reminds me of the area that PhilX records his you tube videos for Fretted Americana. I never even heard of Andy Babiuk at that time. Evidently I've been living under a rock if he is as widely regarded as it appears that he is.:oops: