Mysterious Missing 5th Fret Harmonics

I recently acquired an (awesome) American Deluxe Telecaster with the N3 pickups - I am finding that the 5th fret harmonics do not ring out - only when I'm in the neck pickup position. This is only the case for the 5th fret harmonics! All the "notes" will play elsewhere - if I play the same note (ie.. E on the 5th fret of the 2rd string) it sounds out full and all, but when I play the 5th fret E harmonic on the 6th string, it's like "cancelled out." This is true across the neck onthe 5th fret, and only there, and only with the neck nickup. Is this a by-product of the noise-canceling? Anyone? Buhler? Thanks! For those interested, these pickups do sound incredible and have amazing "touch." (Unless I'm tuning via harmonics in the neck position!).

I just discovered that the coresponding (opposite?) harmonic to the 5th fret falls directly above the neck pickup! The plot thickens...

The neck pup is in a node that cancels out some harmonics.
That's the quick and dirty answer, but I'm sure someone around here knows more on the subject.

All teles do that in the neck position....weird huh?

The neck pup is in a node that cancels out some harmonics.


I just discovered that the coresponding (opposite?) harmonic to the 5th fret falls directly above the neck pickup! The plot thickens...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Moodswingerscale.svg

Yes matt.. The node that forms when playing the harmonic at the 5th fret falls right above the neck pickup. Ipso facto, the node that forms when playing the (same) harmonic at the neck pickup falls right above the 5th fret... see the pic of these nodes here... 4th one down. The string is not vibrating in these locations (in an ideal world).

Interesting. The cover must be concentrating the sensing to right above the p/up. A Strat p/up has its sensing field run thru and along the string so the effect doesn't happen. The cover must block that. The dreaded EDDY CURRENTS !! at work ?

Interesting. The cover must be concentrating the sensing to right above the p/up. A Strat p/up has its sensing field run thru and along the string so the effect doesn't happen. The cover must block that. The dreaded EDDY CURRENTS !! at work ?

The cover has nothing to do with it -- it's all about the pickup's position along the length of the strings. If you took off the cover or put a Strat pickup in the same spot (like Jerry Donahue and the late Clarence White did), it still couldn't deliver that particular harmonic to the amp. As Star Fleet Commander Montgomery Scott put it, "Y'canna change the laws of physics!"

Interesting. The cover must be concentrating the sensing to right above the p/up. A Strat p/up has its sensing field run thru and along the string so the effect doesn't happen. The cover must block that. The dreaded EDDY CURRENTS !! at work ?

I think I see why you think that. You've alluded to that in the past. It appears that you misunderstand the way the magnetic field is sensed by the pickups. Even though the field arcs back down through the string to the other side of the magnet, it's only the portion of the string that's directly above the pole that is significantly sensed by the coil. Due to the much further distance the vibrations in the areas on either side of the poles have to travel up, then back down to the pole, and to the significantly decreased field strength further from the center of the pole (less so with isotropic magnets), those vibrations are much lower in volume, or possibly canceled because they are nearly equidistant from either side of the pole. I suppose the harmonic mix could be altered if you were to lower the pickup to the point where those vibrations were nearly equal to the ones right above the poles. Twice the distance directly above the pole is ~60% loss in volume and an even more significant loss in bass, so it would really just be an exercise in futility.

You will notice that if you pick over that node (the neck PU happens to be right there), that harmonic will not sound.

"On The Sensations of Tone" by Hermann Helmholtz (1885) has a section where this is all laid out. This book is a good "read", if you are a music nerd and have some tolerance for seeing mathematical equations and the like.

I just tried my Strat and it is missing there too when clean. I usually play w so much gain that even w the neck p/up I can get some kind of harmonic at the 5th and even over the p/up itself.Maybe I'm plucking it assymetrically or its higher octaves or something akin to pinch harmonics. So if the p/up is not getting the harmonics its under, then the Middle is actually giving a better representation of the string than the Neck ! (minus the 13th). This seems really bizzare since the M seems dull and muddy compared to the Neck or the string sounding acoustically. Odd that blocking harmonics give a less muddy tone. The spot slightly in front of the normal bridge position is also dull and sounds very fundamental strong, yet it too must get the full series of harmonics minus whichever higher one its under.