Guitarnut - Hardtail Strat Build (x4)

Four Strats in one build. Yep, it's a lot but I've had a burst of build energy despite 14 straight days of record heat topping out at 107° and a 95° shop. Today looks to be only 98° air temp so maybe the shop will stay around 85° or so.

I almost didn't start this thread because my builds may have become somewhat predictable but I plan a few new twists in this one involving the swing arm belt sander I built for my Shopsmith.

vSUuNGudN3A

The plan is 4 hardtail Strats. 3 with 2-piece basswood bodies and the 4th is 1-piece alder. I've really become a fan of basswood. My last 2 Strats were basswood with .25" maple tops. And alder is just cool vintage vibe.

The colors will be:

Alder
2-tone vintage sunburst, rosewood fretboard, clay dots markers, maple neck, mint guard, hand wound A3 single coil PUs, vintage tuners.

Basswood 1
Bright Silver metallic, maple fretboard, black clay dot markers, maple neck, W/B/W guard, hand wound A5 single coil PUs, vintage tuners.

Basswwod 2
Antique white, maple fretboard, black clay dot markers, maple neck, white guard, hand wound A5 single coil PUs, vintage tuners.

Basswood 3
Trans Purple over silver metallic base, maple fretboard, black clay dot markers, maple neck, white guard, hand wound A5 single coil PUs, vintage tuners.

So it begins...

I started with 2 large blocks of basswood. they were rough sawn so I needed to joint one edge before taking them to the band saw.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build01.jpg

Then I trimmed them down to just under 6.75" wide...the widest my Shopsmith band saw can resaw.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build02.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build03.jpg

Resawn to 1.875".

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build04.jpg

Then cross cut...3 @ 19" and 3 @ 17".

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build05.jpg

The necks will be made from this maple billet. I've used it as a sled for my planer for the last few years. It's not fancy...just good old rock maple with some figure here and there. At 28"x8.50"x2.75" it will yield 4 blanks.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build06.jpg

I ripped it in half for resaw.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build07.jpg

Then each half was resawn.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build08.jpg

The last step was to trim them to 4" wide for my truss rod jig.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build09.jpg

The results...

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build10.jpg

Time to glue up the blanks. The shorter piece of basswood had a nasty knot that I had to avoid. I laid the pieces out, checked my template and then made a Sharpie mark to guide me during glue up.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build11.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build12.jpg

The other 2 blanks were no problem. I flushed up the joints against the bottom bar clamps. This lets gravity assist with alignment so just a skim pass thru the planer will clean them up. That gives me plenty to work with on the other side during planing.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build13.jpg

After clean up in the planer with the template traced.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build14.jpg

Rough trimmed on the band saw. I did these with a 1/2" blade because it's a bit of a chore to change out the blade on my band saw...not because it's difficult but because my resaw setup is just the way I like it and going back and forth between 1/2" and 1/4" blades takes a bit of realigning to get the resaw dialed back in. Since the SS band saw is so easy to remove, I should just get a second, unmodified saw to keep a 1/4" blade on.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build15.jpg

And here's the alder blank that was already trimmed to this point.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build16.jpg

On to profiling the bodies. Since I use the 1/2" cut bit from StewMac, I've gotten in the habit of using thinner templates. I can make a pass with the template, remove it and make a second pass without adjusting the router.

A single pass on each body.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build17.jpg

With the template removed, I use the first pass as a template edge and...

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build18.jpg

...make a second pass on each.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build19.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build20.jpg

Then, I just keep making passes until I get to the last little bit.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build21.jpg

I change out the router bit to a flush trim bit and remove the last edge.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build22.jpg

Next is the neck pocket route. With the neck pocket @ .625", the PU routes @ .750" and controls @ 1.250" I takes everything at once. Since these are hardtails, I put some tape over the bridge route to keep me from doing something stupid. :roll:

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build23.jpg

Since the control route is going deeper than the neck and PUs, I use it as a testing ground for depth. Here, I'm check my router setting for the .625" depth of the neck pocket. The next pass will erase the test cut. I'll do the same for the PU routes.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build24.jpg

Everything down to .625"

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build25.jpg

Then I remove the template and take PUs, control and output down to .750"

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build26.jpg

Then, I add a block to guide the bearing and take control and output down to 1.25"

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build27.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build28.jpg

After adding the round overs, I roughed in the transitions to the neck pocket.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build29.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build30.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build31.jpg

Forearm and belly cuts are next...that's where the SS belt sander comes in. :cool:

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build32.jpg

Cool another Guitarnut build! I wouldn't say there was anything predictable about your builds, you invent new tools and stuff- the only thing I would say was predictable is you work faster than I do!
Hey, do the A3 and A5 magnets make the pickups sound different?
well were watching.

Andy

Wow, somebody else uses the stew mac bit besides me..... :-) I'm a fan of the basswood too. Plentiful, stable, and cheap on the east coast.

It works like pine in my opinion although a bit dustier. Put some clear oil on some scrap and watch the grain pop.

Hey, Nice going Nut ! That alder body is going to look sweet.:cool: I always like to watch you work- gives people like me something to aspire to. I'm not doing too bad though, got 2 finished and one ready for final sanding since march.:grin:

I started this morning on the forearm cuts. My plan was to build a simple jig that would attach to the SS sander. It would hold the body so the top of the cut was parallel to the travel of the belt. A hinged plate would hold the body and allow it to drop as wood is sanded away. Wedges under the plate would limit the travel to the roughly 20° angle of the cut. Cutoffs from the body would be lined with cork and used to position and hold the body in place. A clamp could be attached thru the bridge routes on trem bodies.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/fac01.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/fac02.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/fac03.jpg

Before building the jig, I wanted to hand cut one of the bodies to assist in setting angles. The cut went so fast and easy, I decided to save the jig build for cooler weather.

I marked the cut on the front of the body and carried the lines around to the back. This gave me a visual reference for keeping the cut parallel to the belt travel. It took about 20 mins to do all 4 bodies. I really need to build a dust collection solution for this sander...yuck!

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build34.jpg

You can see how easy it was to keep the cut on track.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build35.jpg

This is the alder body, which I did last. Right up to the line with no problems.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build36.jpg

Last thing I did was ease over the top of the cuts. A little bit of blocking to flatten things out and they're done. The heat drove me out of the shop, so the tummy cuts will have to wait.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build37.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build38.jpg

Cool another Guitarnut build! I wouldn't say there was anything predictable about your builds, you invent new tools and stuff- the only thing I would say was predictable is you work faster than I do!
Hey, do the A3 and A5 magnets make the pickups sound different?
well were watching.

Andy

Thanks!

To my ear, the A3 magnets pick up a sweetness in the top end when slightly over wound.

Bare Knuckle Apache A3 (https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/pickups.php?cat=strats&sub=vintage&pickup=apache)

The A5 magnets have a throatier, fuller mid range.

Bare Knuckle Slow Hand A5 (https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/pickups.php?cat=strats&sub=vintage_hot&pickup=slow_hand)

Wow, somebody else uses the stew mac bit besides me..... :-) I'm a fan of the basswood too. Plentiful, stable, and cheap on the east coast.

It works like pine in my opinion although a bit dustier. Put some clear oil on some scrap and watch the grain pop.

Yep. the smaller cut keeps me from getting in a hurry. It really cuts down on tear out. The basswood is dusty for sure...like baby powder dusty.

Hey, Nice going Nut ! That alder body is going to look sweet.:cool: I always like to watch you work- gives people like me something to aspire to. I'm not doing too bad though, got 2 finished and one ready for final sanding since march.:grin:

Thanks! Congrats on the builds. it just makes a man feel good to play a guitar he built with his own hands. :cool:

Alright, more builds to follow!

Nice work! I'm building two strats at the moment, and one of them is hardtail too..
One "advice" if you can call it that: I don't know how much you care about building them to vintage specs but look at various pics of forearms cuts and you'll see that they are not flat as they would look with your jig.
This is from a Ron Kirn thread:

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n102/Ronkirn/DSC_0030-4.jpg

I'd say forget about the jig a do it by hand as it was done in the old days, I think is one of the coolest parts of building a strat.

Keep up the good work!

Nice work! I'm building two strats at the moment, and one of them is hardtail too..
One "advice" if you can call it that: I don't know how much you care about building them to vintage specs but look at various pics of forearms cuts and you'll see that they are not flat as they would look with your jig.
This is from a Ron Kirn thread:

I'd say forget about the jig a do it by hand as it was done in the old days, I think is one of the coolest parts of building a strat.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks!

The cut, whether by hand or the jig, would be rounded when hand finished. If I used a jig for this, it would be for hogging off the bulk of the wood. Then I would block it out as RK shows in his tutorial. This was super easy on the belt sander and will require much less blocking.

Alright, more builds to follow!

:smile:

Thanks!

The cut, whether by hand or the jig, would be rounded when hand finished. If I used a jig for this, it would be for hogging off the bulk of the wood. Then I would block it out as RK shows in his tutorial. This was super easy on the belt sander and will require much less blocking.

great! maybe you can think of a jig to do it like this (go to 2:33)

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Another great start to another great build thread. Your efficiency at building makes most of us look bad

great! maybe you can think of a jig to do it like this (go to 2:33)


Thanks for sharing that video.

I could add a fence to the side of the sander and work in a similar way. Standing behind the fence and having it to bear against would really cut down on fatigue. Even though I only ran the sander for 20 mins or so, countering the pull of the belt really cramped up my forearms.

uvNkYfplq9w

Another great start to another great build thread. Your efficiency at building makes most of us look bad

Thanks. I always thought of it as impatience. :lol:

Since you are the jig man, I bet you could whip up a tummy cut router jig by incorporating the " planing jig" idea but on curved rails. The sled would need curved rails to follow them and it would need a tilt mechanism or staggered height sides to get the needed angle. If you look at my fretboard radius jig...it would be the opposite curvatures. It is in here:
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=5900&hilit=fretboard+radiusing+jig

Since you are the jig man, I bet you could whip up a tummy cut router jig by incorporating the " planing jig" idea but on curved rails. The sled would need curved rails to follow them and it would need a tilt mechanism or staggered height sides to get the needed angle. If you look at my fretboard radius jig...it would be the opposite curvatures. It is in here:
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=5900&hilit=fretboard+radiusing+jig

I was sure hoping to do the tummy cut with the end roller of the belt sander but I'd be working blind to the layout line. Right now, I don't see a way to make that work.

A router jig would be interesting. Didn't these used to be cut on the band saw? If so, a straight cut bit could do it like you suggest...then again, so could a large enough band saw. :mrgreen:

I'll probably cut these by hand with a rasp and small plane but it would be interesting to look at a jig for future use.

Well, GB got me thinking if it would be possivle to make a router jig for the tummy cut. I did a mockup to see what the dimensions might be.

In Illustrator, I started with the full size Strat drawing from our epic Printable Guitar Templates thread. Just checking the radius of the cut, it appears to be 7.75" or a 15.50" diameter circle.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/jigs/tummy cut 03.jpg

Taking this into Lightwave 3D, I used the same drawing to make an actual size Strat body. A 15.50" cylinder, when rotated aprox. 65°, only cut a very small contour...deep enough but much too narrow.

I sized the cylinder up and tried again, and again, and again. It took a cylinder 31.50" in diameter or a 15.75" radius to cut the appropriate size contour. Even when I got the right size contour, a round cylinder always produced a hump in the top of the contour. I tried making the cylinder eliptical and it helped but took the contour out of proportion.

I'm thinking a jig of this size would be a major challenge. Probably why they used a band saw before the days of good old CNC. :shock:

http://www.crenshawweb.com/jigs/tummy cut 01.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/jigs/tummy cut 02.jpg

Maybe one of those electric belt sanders with the thin belt on a ' stick ' with 40 grit on it would get the donkey work done in a hurry. ?

Watching with amazement as ever ............ Mac

Maybe one of those electric belt sanders with the thin belt on a ' stick ' with 40 grit on it would get the donkey work done in a hurry. ?

Watching with amazement as ever ............ Mac

Clever as always. :cool:

As I was checking the Strat model in LW, I thought about a pivot attachment for my belt sander. A flat panel that pivots at a 15.75" radius at the proper angle to the roller end of the belt sander. Very similar to your suggestion, Mac.

Driving home just now, I thought about a swing arm router...I've seen videos of people making radius blocks with them. Set it at the proper swing radius, set the body at the proper angle to it and swing away. Maybe something there...

Clever as always. :cool:

As I was checking the Strat model in LW, I thought about a pivot attachment for my belt sander. A flat panel that pivots at a 15.75" radius at the proper angle to the roller end of the belt sander. Very similar to your suggestion, Mac.

Driving home just now, I thought about a swing arm router...I've seen videos of people making radius blocks with them. Set it at the proper swing radius, set the body at the proper angle to it and swing away. Maybe something there...

Yeah... a swing arm router That is certainly be do-able I would think. Maybe have that in a fixed position and move the body under it on guides. Bronze bearings on drill rod would probably be study enough or you could spring for linear guides from vxb.com

What about a big cylinder with sandpaper stuck to it, sort of like a router table with a 15" diameter bit? Probably a long way to go for one specific thing, but you could use the shopsmith to drive it, and if you're whacking out strat bodies 4 at a time, It might be worth the effort.

Face it, Mark. You need a CNC router to make life easier. Just do the 3D design and feed it it to BobCAM and let 'er eat.

I did it on the end roller of my small disc/belt sander..

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z465/melomanarock/Stratos/DSC07031.jpg

I'd bet that with your belt sander it would only take a couple of strokes..

Now that I see the model you did for the belly cut I understand why I've seen that hump on many american made modern strats.

subbed, Up for the ride.

Heck... Drawer slides or even dado/grooves on top of rails in dados/grooves would do it with some wax. I can see a 2x4 swingset knocked together in a couple hours. Might be worth it for the youtube bragging rights...LOL.

Great thread!

I was sure hoping to do the tummy cut with the end roller of the belt sander but I'd be working blind to the layout line. Right now, I don't see a way to make that work.

A router jig would be interesting. Didn't these used to be cut on the band saw? If so, a straight cut bit could do it like you suggest...then again, so could a large enough band saw. :mrgreen:

I'll probably cut these by hand with a rasp and small plane but it would be interesting to look at a jig for future use.

This radius looks close :razz:

http://netisbeautiful.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/Yipes__33__Great_White_Shark__South_Australia-vTF9_r1-500x375.jpg

I used to do it on the spindle sander but now use the same jig on my 14" bandsaw and it's so much easier.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/attachments/tele-home-depot/108175d1325880585t-tummy-tuck-radius-dsc01779-jpg

This radius looks close :razz:

http://netisbeautiful.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/Yipes__33__Great_White_Shark__South_Australia-vTF9_r1-500x375.jpg

I used to do it on the spindle sander but now use the same jig on my 14" bandsaw and it's so much easier.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/attachments/tele-home-depot/108175d1325880585t-tummy-tuck-radius-dsc01779-jpg



What Brand / size of saw?

Just A Watch'n

YOWHO bug 100 post's, I'm a whore now,,,:razz:

This radius looks close :razz:

http://netisbeautiful.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/Yipes__33__Great_White_Shark__South_Australia-vTF9_r1-500x375.jpg

Yeah, but the 1 TPI blade looks a bit rough. :razz:


I used to do it on the spindle sander but now use the same jig on my 14" bandsaw and it's so much easier.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/attachments/tele-home-depot/108175d1325880585t-tummy-tuck-radius-dsc01779-jpg

This is interesting. My ROSS would make short work of that. Any info on the jig would be much appreciated...angles especially.

What about a big cylinder with sandpaper stuck to it, sort of like a router table with a 15" diameter bit? Probably a long way to go for one specific thing, but you could use the shopsmith to drive it, and if you're whacking out strat bodies 4 at a time, It might be worth the effort.

The drum would need to be 15.75" radius...31.50" diameter. Yikes! Guess I could tumble dry delicates, too. :wink:

Face it, Mark. You need a CNC router to make life easier. Just do the 3D design and feed it it to BobCAM and let 'er eat.

That would take a lot of the fun out of it for me. My joy comes from building things...not just guitars. I have a bit of the MacGyver/Goldberg gene. :lol:

Now that I see the model you did for the belly cut I understand why I've seen that hump on many american made modern strats.

After looking at the model closer, I see that the hump is caused by the point of contact of the cylinder. Duh! :shock:

Because the upper waist is already cut, the cylinder makes contact at various depths according to the height of the body edge. This would have been the case on a band saw, too. The straight running blade would be equivalent to the side of the cylinder.

Perhaps it was accepted as part of the build process. It could have easily been hand sanded but I guess at some point it became part of the guitar....a vintage detail. Maybe it was the "sternum cut". :razz:

This is an interesting pic. It shows the hump in several 60s RI models. It looks like in the 70s they narrowed the contour and the hump all but went away.

Something I posted above got me thinking about what would happen if you reverse the process...cut the contour first and then profile the body. Would this eliminate the hump...not that you'd want to. :twisted:

I started with my cutting tool and a Strat size body blank and cut the contour. All the angles are identical to my earlier model.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/jigs/tummy cut 04.jpg

Then using a Strat shaped cutting tool, I cut away the waste. And what do you know...

http://www.crenshawweb.com/jigs/tummy cut 05.jpg

...there's still a hump!

http://www.crenshawweb.com/jigs/tummy cut 06.jpg

What Brand / size of saw?

Delta 14" with riser block.

Yeah, but the 1 TPI blade looks a bit rough. :razz:



This is interesting. My ROSS would make short work of that. Any info on the jig would be much appreciated...angles especially. Wouldn't be the first time I borrowed inspiration from you. :oops:

Don't have the talent for those fancy drawings but I can try a 3D finger painting :lol:. The angle that I came up with to match the Strat blueprints is 66 degrees and I made it fit snug so the body cant move around. Cue the MacGyver theme.

What I did on my strat model was something like this. I drew the 7.5" R curve in the top view and drew the offset curve for the tummy in the front view. I made the line straight except at the ends where it curves up. I moved it up against the perimeter, but it kept the shape.

I think I lofted those two curves to create the surface that I split away from the slab. That machined out a non bump contour.

Don't have the talent for those fancy drawings but I can try a 3D finger painting :lol:. The angle that I came up with to match the Strat blueprints is 66 degrees and I made it fit snug so the body cant move around. Cue the MacGyver theme.

I was at 65°, so I was close. :cool:

I think I lofted those two curves to create the surface that I split away from the slab. That machined out a non bump contour.

Guess that's the way to do it for CNC. Might as well smooth it out. :cool:

I just realized I made left handed Strat 3D models. Didn't even register when I was working on them. :oops:

I did a quick sled design based on Shepherd's. I haven't seen the back of his or how he locks the body in place so I added a sliding caul that presses the body against the front plate. I'll probably add some gussets for strength. I also added a block that sits under the upper horn (on bottom in the jig) to keep the body's center line parallel to the sander table...not sure it's necassary but all of my experiments in 3D had this orientation.

This looks easy enough to build and I have a 1/4 sheet of birch ply on hand. I think this is the way I'll go. And, if some day I abandon my Shopsmith band saw for a stand alone model, the jig will transfer over like it did for Shepherd.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/jigs/belly jig 01.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/jigs/belly jig 02.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/jigs/belly jig 03.jpg

I was at 65°, so I was close. :cool:

So, did you go with the Delta instead of modding your SS band saw? Nice addition to the shop.

:confused: Spindle sander band saw?
Are you calling me CptRyg because of the shark pic?
Looks like you have it under control but here's a couple more pics, pretty basic.

134307 134308

Hey im a lefty if you are looking for a home. Dont really want a hard tail tho. Lol.

Sent from my iPhone using TDPRI

:confused: Spindle sander band saw?
Are you calling me CptRyg because of the shark pic?
Looks like you have it under control but here's a couple more pics, pretty basic.

134307 134308

Ha, nope. Wrong person. Sorry about that. I corrected the posts. :oops:

Thanks for the pics and for sharing... Shepherd.

Hey im a lefty if you are looking for a home. Dont really want a hard tail tho. Lol.

Sent from my iPhone using TDPRI

Fortunately it was just the 3D models. :wink:

I remember seeing in preeb's 55 Strat Build that the back contour was made using a 15'' sanding wheel...

Here's the post: http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot/148966-1955-stratocaster-build.html#post1683045

David

I work for a company called Fire & Rain LLC. We're a marketing agency with a work history with several Fortune 500 companies. The name came from a merger between Firehouse Marketing and Rainbow Communications. Our name is boldly displayed on a fountain at the corner of a very busy, downtown intersection.

I tell that story to set up this story. Last evening, a guy in a ball cap, pocket T and jeans comes riding up on a bike and knocks on the office window of one of our creative directors. He's curious about the company and what we do. It's after hours and one of our senior producers steps outside to answer a few questions and get the guy on his way. As he's exiting the building, the guy introduces himsilf...it's James Taylor. Here in town for a concert, he's out in search of a pharmacy and sees the sign...Fire & Rain. I guess I would be curious too if I had a song that defined my career and saw the name on a building.

I had already left for the evening...the one day I get out early...but the story this morning is that he posed for pictures, came inside and chatted with a few folks for nearly an hour and then our producer drove him to the CVS...he would have had a long bike ride from downtown. By all accounts a very casual, down to earth guy with no hint of the stardom that he has represented most of his life.

Here he is with the folks who were lucky enough to be in the building. If body language tells us anything, we know who he enjoyed posing with the most.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/jt01.jpg
http://www.crenshawweb.com/jt02.jpg
http://www.crenshawweb.com/jt03.jpg

Fortunately it was just the 3D models. :wink:

Hows the tone on a 3d model? :)

Sent from my iPhone using TDPRI

Hows the tone on a 3d model? :)

Sent from my iPhone using TDPRI

Polygonal, with a lot of phong shading. :lol:

Well, the jig for the belly cuts proved to be problematic. The constaruction went fine, but my ROSS doesn't have the reach to make the contour. Neither does my band saw. So, I went my usual route and sued a combination of Ibex plane, rasps and sanding tools.

After latying out the contour in pencil, I like to border it with blue tape as a visual guide...sometimes the pencil rubbs off and I'm left eyeballing things...doesn't always work for me.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build39.jpg

Then, I hog it out with an Ibex plane.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build40.jpg

When I get down to the layout lines, I guide coat with pencil and then black it with one of the drums from my ROSS.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build41.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build42.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build43.jpg

Blocking completed. My planing technique is to follow the curve of the contour and then plane lightly cross grain to smooth it out. This leaves very little work to do at the sanding stage.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build44.jpg

Next is easing the edges into the round overs. A rasp knocks off most of the waste and then I sand it out with 120 grit.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build45.jpg

I also knocked off the crown of the forearm cut to make sure it flows from top to contour.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build46.jpg

First 2 basswood bodies done...

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build47.jpg

All 3 done.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build48.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build49.jpg

The alder body is almost done, too. I ran out of steam.

That little plane gets hot so to avoid blisters, I tape up. I need to get a thin leather glove but I never remember when I'm at the home store. :sad:

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build50.jpg

The truss rods came in today, so I'll be starting on the necks and fretboards this weekend.

The plan has changed a bit. I have enough plain maple for all 4 necks but no matching maple for fretboards. I have some flame maple fretboards but it seems silly to put them on plain maple necks. So, the plan is to cut up one of the maple blanks for fretboards and the sunburst alder build will get a flame maple neck with rosewood board. I may even use the faux roasted maple look I used on my last Tele build.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/2012/build242.jpg

More to come...

but my ROSS doesn't have the reach to make the contour.

Guess I forgot to mention that :mrgreen:. What I used to do was loosen the nut that secures the sleeve and slide the sleeve up above the rubber cylinder.

I guess it's back to the router jig eh? My arm aches just thinking about it. I really messed mine up a few years back doing that to two walnut strats. It became a repetitive motion injury. The next day I coulld barely pick up my lunch bag. That was it for strats for a while.

I used one of these in a grinder for roughing it out, only takes 5 minutes.

http://imgs.tootoo.com/e0/81/e0815235e93053563f7ed6bb7556fd6d.jpg

Guess I forgot to mention that :mrgreen:. What I used to do was loosen the nut that secures the sleeve and slide the sleeve up above the rubber cylinder.

Doh!!!

I thought about it in reverse of your approach. I considered putting a spacer under the cylinder. The travel of the spindle keeps a fair amount of the sleeve under the edge of the table...useless. The proper size spacer would give me additional height and 100% usable sleeve that's supported by the rubber cylinder.

Maybe next time. :wink:

I guess it's back to the router jig eh? My arm aches just thinking about it. I really messed mine up a few years back doing that to two walnut strats. It became a repetitive motion injury. The next day I coulld barely pick up my lunch bag. That was it for strats for a while.

Maybe in the future I'll revisit the router solution. It seems a swing set frame like you mentioned would be helpful on other tasks as well. Fold it up like a lawn chair and stick it in the corner. Could be handy.

I made it thru all 4 and no ill effects except a blister on my thumb (cue Money For Nothing) from the Ibex plane. I truly enjoy carving and I guess that makes the difference for me. I'm not hurrying to get thru it so I don't stress anything. Now, my feet at the of the build day...that's another story. :sad:

I used one of these in a grinder for roughing it out, only takes 5 minutes.


Yeah, I've seen guys use grinders and more power to them but I just can't bring myself to use one on a guitar...not sure why. Just doesn't seem guitar friendly. Some would say the same about anything with a motor so to each his own. :wink:

I finished up the alder body. Same as the others but in the interest of "full disclosure". :razz:

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build51.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build52.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build53.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build54.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build55.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build56.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build57.jpg

I started out this morning working on the fretboards. The maple blank that was to be a neck was resawn into 3 equal thickness pieces. First I ripped it to a shade under 3" wide for the fret slotting jig.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build58.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build59.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build60.jpg

I saw this idea on Fletch's video series...nicely done series by the way. It's a simple sled that feed thru the planer. It holds the fretboard in place and the blocks on each end eliminate the possibility of planer snipe since they keep the pinch rollers in position until the fretboard has cleared the cutters.

I shaved down a piece of birch ply to just over .25" thick and used double stick tape to attach small pieces of the ply to a long piece of birch ply that will be the base. After a pass on the jointer, place them on the sled and feed them thru the planer until it just kisses the blocks. Done.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build61.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build62.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build63.jpg

I also made one for the neck blanks. I had to screw a stop onto the front because the pull from the planer was quite a pit more on the neck blanks than the fretboards...it kept popping the front block off. The blanks are not held down with tape and it's easy to pop one out, run the next 3 then reset the planer and run them all again...very fast and efficient.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build64.jpg

Neck and fretboard blanks all done.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build65.jpg

Next was the layout for the truss rods.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build66.jpg

My jig uses a plate that I made for my router years ago. I've always thought I had a good process for this and it's evolved over the years but it was a one off process and time consuming. Having all of the blanks exactly the same thickness, lets me be a bit more efficient at this step.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build67.jpg

Wedges hold the blank in place and I can make a pass, pop out the blank, quickly secure the next and so on until I run all 4. Adjust the router and make another pass on all 4. And so on.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build68.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build69.jpg

After all of the channels are done, I trace out the template again, this time in Sharpie. I do it in pencil the first time in case I need to adjust a center line after routing the TR channels. This way, I have one dark line to use at the band saw.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build70.jpg

Then I rough cut them on the band saw...

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build71.jpg

And route trim them with the router. i use the same procedure here as I did on the bodies. A thin template, make one pass, remove the template and carry on routing all 4 before I adjust the router.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build72.jpg

Then I fit all the truss rods. I'll glue in small plugs to fill up the extra channel at the ends.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build73.jpg

Next was slotting the boards. All are 22 fret with fretboard extensions.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build74.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build75.jpg

I have the fretboard ends trimmed to length and everything ready to go for glue up.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build76.jpg

Looking good. You've got quite the little mass production, assembly line thing going on there.

Looking good. You've got quite the little mass production, assembly line thing going on there.

Thanks, nosmo.

I made a little more progress last night before I ran out of steam.

Having only used at most, 2 Hot Rod truss rods at a time, I never noticed how inconsistent they are in length and assembly.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build77.jpg

Not only are they odd lengths but the amount of thread sticking out past the nuts is all over the place. The second rod from the top is ideal...no threads sticking out on either end. Before I install these, I'm going to trim the excess thread on all ends with a hack saw.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build78.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build79.jpg

All trimmed up and ready to fill in the gaps in the channels. I marked all of the channel lengths with the same rod so as you can imagine the rods don't all fill the channels.

The fretboard cut offs are perfect for making plugs.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build80.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build81.jpg

Now they're ready for the fretboards.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build82.jpg

Awesome build! I wish I could get some of that lovely flamed maple here!!

Awesome build! I wish I could get some of that lovely flamed maple here!!

http://www.fine-woods.com/index.html

Awesome build! I wish I could get some of that lovely flamed maple here!!

Thanks, Dasher!

The Stew Mac bit leaves little ridges from it's small bite. Since all of these will have fretboard extensions, now is the time to take care of these. Since the rods are in, I need to do this by hand. I really don't like sanding end grain.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build83.jpg

Back 10 builds or so, I started offsetting my fretboards so I can use the edge as a guide when thinning the headstock on the band saw. This takes the irregular shape of the neck and headstock out of the equation.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/duo/offset.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/duo/offset2.jpg

To get this set up, I set the fretboard so it hangs slightly over the edge of the treble side and transfer my center line to it.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build84.jpg

I measure with calipers and then transfer that to the nut end and draw a center line.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build85.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build86.jpg

I use staples to pin the fretboard so it doesn't slide around under clamp pressure. I also like to make a pencil line at the 12th and 20th frets. The 12th is just so I have a visual reference of the board and the 20th is the fret I line up the board with.

The 20th fret is 15/16 from the end of a Strat neck. So, I make a mark there on the neck and line up the pencil mark on the fretboard. It's easier to deal with a fretboard extension this way.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build87.jpg

After cutting off the head of the staple, it leaves 2 pins. I set the board in place, tap it with a plastic hammer and it leaves impressions deep enough to locate the board and keep it from moving.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build88.jpg

I also cut a clamping caul that's just short of the fretboard length so I can see both ends to verify my center lines haven't changed.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build89.jpg

Clampzilla!!! One down, three to go. I think I'll go bake some clay dots.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build90.jpg

While fretboards are gluing up, it's time for clay dots. I made a mold out a piece of aluminum channel. Using Fimo black and light flesh colors. I got the idea from Neck Jig Bill...i call him that because there's no way I'll get his last name spelled right.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build91.jpg

The first time I did this I just mashed the clay in with my fingers and I ended up with some voids in the dots. This time I used the butt end of a 1/4" bit and packed each one tight. The last step before baking is to slice off their "muffin tops" with a razor blade. This will let them pop out of the mold easily.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build92.jpg

After baking for 30 mins at 230°, I let them cool for an hour and then popped them out with the bit. Same process for the flesh colored dots.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build93.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build95.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build97.jpg

After all of the fretboards came out of the clamps it was time to thin out the headstocks. I set the fence at 3/8". I kept the fretboard against the fence because worst case, if the neck came off the fence, the blade would cut into the waste...not the headstock.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build98.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build99.jpg

To finish the cut, I placed a very thin flush cut saw in the kerf and used a fret saw to cut downward. The flush cut saw helped me line up the cut and prevented the fret saw from cutting into the headstock.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build100.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build101.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build102.jpg

Then I rough trimmed the fretboards on the band saw...

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build103.jpg

...routed them with a flush trim bit...except for the fretboard extensions...

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build104.jpg

...then a quick pass on the ROSS to flush up the extensions. And I hand rounded the corners.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build105.jpg

I cleaned up the transitions with a rasp and 3/4" sanding drum. They still need a bit of work but they're close.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build106.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build107.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build108.jpg

They're starting to look like guitars!

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build109.jpg

Looking great! How thick is the aluminum you use as a dot mold?

Great work!

Looking great! How thick is the aluminum you use as a dot mold?

Thanks. It's about 1/4" thick were the dots are formed.

Great work!

Thanks!

I had a few hours before work this morning...actually the dogs woke me wanting to go at at 5am and there was no going back to sleep.

I wanted to get the position markers done so they could dry all day. If the day doesn't hand me any surprises, I want to sling the radius on the fretboards this evening.

All marked and center punched. Sorry about the foggy pics...the camera was cool and dry and the garage was hot and humid.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build112.jpg

Then I drilled them all with a 1/4" Forstner bit. This works well here because the center point on the bit locks into the center punch and the bit makes a square bottom in the hole.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build113.jpg

All glued in, tapped home with a fretting hammer and left to dry in the hot garage today. Should be good to go this evening.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build114.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build115.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build116.jpg

Since you are the jig man, I bet you could whip up a tummy cut router jig...

Revisiting this for future use, I wanted to share the design I came up with. Here's a simple animation. With it's lateral movement and height adjustment, any number of radii and widths could be cut. This jig might be worth having in the shop. It could be used to make radius blocks and other concave items.

5CNKVjAHaj0

I decided to carve the necks before putting the radius on the fretboards. This will let the necks move around, if they're going to, before I start on the fretboards.

I started by flush cutting the inlays so I'd have a flat surface to work with. A flush cut saw makes easy work of it.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build117.jpg

I ended up with dots that could probably be used in other necks...they're at least as thick as the ones SM sells.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build118.jpg

Next, I marked out the tranistion...I didn't catch it until I was carving the transitions later, but I drew Tele headstock layouts instead of Strat. Hmmm.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build119.jpg

Then I clamped the necks up off the bench and set the thickness in two places. .840" at the 1st fret and .900" at the 12th. Having it up off the bench allows me to get the calipers under the fretboard for checks as I use a rasp to remove wood.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build120.jpg

To remove the bulk of the wood between my depth cuts, I set the fence on the band saw and sawed from point A to point B.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build121.jpg

After trimming...

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build122.jpg

...and roughing in on the ROSS.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build123.jpg

Then, using a couple of different rasps, I roughed in the transitions and smoothed out the sander marks.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build125.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build126.jpg

Usually when I carve 1 or 2 necks, I use my Ibex planes and a few rasps. Doing 4 this time, I stepped it up by using the band saw and ROSS. With the plane it takes about an hour to get a neck to this point. It took just over 2 hours to get all 4 to this stage. It's a good thing because the heat is back on in the mid west and it's not looking to get any better before it gets worse. :mad:

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build124.jpg

Revisiting this for future use, I wanted to share the design I came up with. Here's a simple animation. With it's lateral movement and height adjustment, any number of radii and widths could be cut. This jig might be worth having in the shop. It could be used to make radius blocks and other concave items.

5CNKVjAHaj0

Yep, that is pretty much what I envisioned. I think you should make one.:-)

Actually if you made a really big one, you could make domed top and back forms for acoustic guitars too....

Have you ever thought of building a jig like Bill's to carve the neck?

Have you ever thought of building a jig like Bill's to carve the neck?

Yeah, I've considered it but there's still a fair amount of carving to do afterward. It's a fine design but I'm not sure it's a fit for me.

I'd be more inclined to use something like this pin router.

rXQfB2GdKDk

I looked into that before and they wanted close to $300 to grind a custom bit.

I didn't watch the whole thing. Did he "carve" 5 necks in six minutes? If you were making a living at this or paying someone else an hourly wage, the $300 bit would be a cheap investment.

Grizzly has a couple bits that you might like to consider. They are hand rail top bits. I have one I've used when I used to use my overarm router a couple of times to carve like that... it scared the living daylights out of me and that was that.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/SY-Handrail-Bit-Set-1-1-2-Shank/C1542

Yeah, I've considered it but there's still a fair amount of carving to do afterward. It's a fine design but I'm not sure it's a fit for me.

I'd be more inclined to use something like this pin router.

rXQfB2GdKDk
Preeb had a thread for the Strat necks using a custom ground bit to shap the bulk of his necks. I am not sure if you intend to use a pin router for the tummy contour on the bodies, but I cannot envision how that would work. I thing the drum sander or the end of your belt sander would be the best alternative to hand carving. Possible a pin in the table, and tilt the body on a carriage with an arched groove to follow, with a tall 3" diameter drum sander vertically would be an idea. It's too late to draw anything now.

A dead head sander would be the ultimate I think. I've linked to this before as you know.
http://www.chassonguitars.com/tour.html

Grizzly has a couple bits that you might like to consider. They are hand rail top bits. I have one I've used when I used to use my overarm router a couple of times to carve like that... it scared the living daylights out of me and that was that.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/SY-Handrail-Bit-Set-1-1-2-Shank/C1542

Thanks GB. That could be a good solution when the time comes.

Preeb had a thread for the Strat necks using a custom ground bit to shap the bulk of his necks. I am not sure if you intend to use a pin router for the tummy contour on the bodies, but I cannot envision how that would work. I thing the drum sander or the end of your belt sander would be the best alternative to hand carving. Possible a pin in the table, and tilt the body on a carriage with an arched groove to follow, with a tall 3" diameter drum sander vertically would be an idea. It's too late to draw anything now.

I hadn't thought about using a pin router for contours. The swing arm I posted above would be far easier to control.

I didn't watch the whole thing. Did he "carve" 5 necks in six minutes? If you were making a living at this or paying someone else an hourly wage, the $300 bit would be a cheap investment.

Yeah, he seems to have it dialed in. That's a great return on the investment.

Well, I sanded the necks down to 220 grit last night. All of the transitions came out nice. They're not identical, but close.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build127.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build128.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build129.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build130.jpg

On to the fretboard radius. During the last Challenge build, I finished up this swing arm belt sander (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot/314116-building-swing-arm-belt-sander.html) for my Shopsmith. It uses a swing arm that can be set to 12", 9.5" and 7.25" radii.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build132.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build133.jpg

Here it is in action...

T2NOFadrtKY

I'm going with a 9.5" radius on these. I got one maple and the rosewood done last night before I ran out of foam mount tape. I going to improve the mounting process because getting the residue off from each neck is a pain in the...neck.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build134.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build135.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build136.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build138.jpg

They look real nice!

They look real nice!

Thanks, GB!

Are you using a tele heel shape?

Are you using a tele heel shape?

Nope, they're all Strat heels. The fretboard extensions make them look square from the front. I still need to round out the extensions. I rounded their corners just to keep them from getting cracked or spintered during carving.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build83.jpg

Before I radius the last 2 necks this evening, I decided to solve the attchment issue. Using the foam mounting tape gives me plenty of strength but it's a major pain to set and clean up.

A bolt into a secured (epoxied) nut works on the headstock end and a simple split clamp at the heel will be fast and easy to set the neck into place. The squared jaw will be lined with cork and fit both Strat and Tele necks. The clamp will have a larger split between the 2 halves so I can kreep an eye on my center line.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/belt/arm01.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/belt/arm02.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/belt/arm03.jpg

Ah hem , mind if I lob in an idea here. Now you know my love of all things vacuum , my water tells me that there is just enough area at the heel and headstock to get a good pull that would be secure enough for the job in hand. 10 mm neoprene hose running down the arms of the jig and lots of perfs on the mounting plates. Run it from a tub vacuum as usual. Try a small panel off the job to see if there is enough pull , you may get a surprise.

M

I can't wait to see that neck with all the flaming in it when it's finished. These are some killer builds so far. Great work!

Ah hem , mind if I lob in an idea here. Now you know my love of all things vacuum , my water tells me that there is just enough area at the heel and headstock to get a good pull that would be secure enough for the job in hand. 10 mm neoprene hose running down the arms of the jig and lots of perfs on the mounting plates. Run it from a tub vacuum as usual. Try a small panel off the job to see if there is enough pull , you may get a surprise.

M

Interesting idea there, Mac. I'm not seeing how I could develop a vacuum though. The mounting plates are hanging from bolts below the frame. Am I missing something? You thinking multiple hoses per plate?

I can't wait to see that neck with all the flaming in it when it's finished. These are some killer builds so far. Great work!

Thanks, UGG!

Interesting idea there, Mac. I'm not seeing how I could develop a vacuum though. The mounting plates are hanging from bolts below the frame. Am I missing something? You thinking multiple hoses per plate?

Straight off the bat I would have made a couple of shallow boxes , hollow inside to distribute the vacuum , but having thought about it all day I have realised that your metal plates are registered with the desired radii.
So , as I suggested have a wee try off to the side . Make a little box from say 1/4 ply , 3/8 would be better. 8" x 4". 3 layers , Pepper the first layer with 1/4" holes approx the shape you want to attach. Second layer is just an outline , Third layer is solid except for your hook up to the vac. Glue it all together and see if you have good pull on something the size of the flat part of a neck heel. Remember to leave some bleed holes for the vacuum machine to breathe with.

If it works , and as the forum's vacuum enthusiast #1 I reckon it will, then you perhaps should have a second look at the mounting plates . Mind you a 3/4" adjustment of your pivot points will do the job. You can figure that bit out I am certain.

M

Edit ,,, looks like you have an inch or thereabouts free space at the back side of the plates , just build the shallow box in that space , and pepper the plates to your outlines. I don't know what you have to hand by way of flexi hose but if you can get some 1" dia at each plate and then joint them into the conventional hose from the vac you should be golden.

I'm off to paint to create a diagram

Here you go , sorry the hose didn't work out but you get the drift

135577

The plates are height adjustable so the additional thickness wouldn't be an issue. The radius lengths are referenced to the sander bed.

I'm thinking .250" PVC sheet would be a good material to build these with. The glued joints would be self-sealing. I can make the center section out of ripped pieces set on edge to get the height I want... probably .500" or so.

If I'm following your description it would look like this.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/belt/vacuum01.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/belt/vacuum02.jpg

Using a fixed grid of holes would allow me to attach several different shaped necks and the extra holes will allow bleed off. I didn't place any holes directly under the vacuum fitting. The attachment screws would be countersunk so they don't interfere.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/belt/vacuum03.jpg

Thats the ticket. You may have to tape off some of the excess holes , trial and error.

Do a quick test and attatch your shop vac to a piece of wood while it is running. How easy is it to pull off ?
My vac table with a humble Henry Vac ,
I can lift the whole kit and caboodle up while ONLY gripping the workpiece , and it weighs about 20 lbs

Thats the ticket. You may have to tape off some of the excess holes , trial and error.

Do a quick test and attatch your shop vac to a piece of wood while it is running. How easy is it to pull off ?
My vac table with a humble Henry Vac ,
I can lift the whole kit and caboodle up while ONLY gripping the workpiece , and it weighs about 20 lbs

Well, you just brought up a question I've had about this setup. I can see that vacuum is a great clamp against directly opposing force. But what about lateral pressure like I would have with the sanding belt and pushing across it as I swing the arm?

There's only one way to find out Mark. If you recall I used the table extensively in last years challenge including doing some pretty rowdy planing / levelling with the router. No issues. Make a wee box like you drew , it'll take you 15 mins and see if it will grab the neck 1 at all 2 a little 3 lots 4 to your satisfaction.
If 3 and 4 then fire on and do it to the jig.

There's only one way to find out Mark. If you recall I used the table extensively in last years challenge including doing some pretty rowdy planing / levelling with the router. No issues. Make a wee box like you drew , it'll take you 15 mins and see if it will grab the neck 1 at all 2 a little 3 lots 4 to your satisfaction.
If 3 and 4 then fire on and do it to the jig.

Silly me. I thought there might have been some math to it. :razz:

I'll give it a try. Thanks!

Plenty of holes and it helps if you chamfer them. Its all about surface area apparently. I've had nothing but good experience from my vac box. Good luck.


M

Am I the only one who got that you met the musician James Taylor because the shop is called "Fire & Rain"? That's funny and a trip--I remember growing up hearing my mom play his albums. I guess that must mean the rest of you must be more interested in the builds than a fingerstyle acoustic artist from the '70s... :grin:

I love this thread...definitely love the step by step and multiple photos. The CAD drawings and jigs you've built are cool and bring perspective on how these shapes are engineered, although my strat forearm and belly cuts are all hand sanded visually and by feel based on pencil mark locations. I guess I'm old school like that.

Lastly...Neck Jig Bill. :) I remember him that way too - he's got the best how-to's on Youtube!

Am I the only one who got that you met the musician James Taylor because the shop is called "Fire & Rain"? That's funny and a trip--I remember growing up hearing my mom play his albums. I guess that must mean the rest of you must be more interested in the builds than a fingerstyle acoustic artist from the '70s... :grin:

I love this thread...definitely love the step by step and multiple photos. The CAD drawings and jigs you've built are cool and bring perspective on how these shapes are engineered, although my strat forearm and belly cuts are all hand sanded visually and by feel based on pencil mark locations. I guess I'm old school like that.

Lastly...Neck Jig Bill. :) I remember him that way too - he's got the best how-to's on Youtube!

Thanks spook777. Sadly, I didn't meet JT, I had already left for the day. But, yes, he saw the company name and felt compelled to stop. Just one of the funny things you never thought would happen. What are the odds that he would ride down that street right past out fountain? Weird.

[QUOTE=spook777;4310663]Am I the only one who got that you met the musician James Taylor because the shop is called "Fire & Rain"? That's funny and a trip--I remember growing up hearing my mom play his albums. I guess that must mean the rest of you must be more interested in the builds than a fingerstyle acoustic artist from the '70s... :grin:

Nope...some of us still remember him when he had hair. I think it is cooler that he looks and acts like a regular guy, and just rides down the street on a bike.

I watch the Carole King / JT fund raiser on PBS all the time.

I don't think I would have recognized him at all, of course that's what everybody say's about me 40 years later too.

Okay. After much discussion with Mac about how to hold down the other two necks during the radius, I ended up doing them the way I had been...with foam double stick tape. It was 95° ion the shop and I needed to make the best of my limited time in there so I went with what I knew would work. But, I'm definitely going to upgrade to the vacuum system when I can spend more time in the shop.

After finishing up the fretboards, I moved on to side markers. Nothing new here. I did have several sticks of plastic so I glued them all in, let them set a few seconds and them snipped them...moved down and did another round.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build139.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build140.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build142.jpg

This morning I sanded everything down to 220. Stratocaster Jenga, anyone?

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build143.jpg

Great progress Mark. Hey I take it from your comment about vacuum that you did a basic test and got a good pull down ?
I was wondering about the plastic you use wrt sideways grab . it stands to reason that if the surface has some friction all of its own then the resistance to sideways pull will be greater. Perhaps 120 sandpaper , obviously the holes need popped through that. Maybe even a thin layer of that neoprene rubber . Again a bit of trial and error will probably pay dividends. I do know that the vac that I made has so much pull that to get it to shift sideways you really have to give it a hearty shove to break the grab.

Next were the neck plate holes. I should have done this before routing the pockets but it's easy enough to do at this stage. I marked them with the template and then checked with a plate.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build144.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build145.jpg

Then I center punched all the locations.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build146.jpg

A couple of pieces of tape to limit tear out. I drilled everything thru with a 1/8" bit, flipped the bodies over and with them tight against a piece of scrap, opened them up to 3/16".

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build147.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build148.jpg

A few more details. I drilled the wire path for the output.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build149.jpg

My template is just a hair narrow in the output bore and I keep forgetting to fix it. A small file puts a nice bevel on the edges and lets the cup drop right in. If I don't do this, the issue is compounded by finish coats.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build150.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build151.jpg

Next I made paint sticks out of some failed neck attempts from my early build days...I had tossed them in the corner as a reminder to slow down and pay attention to what I was doing. Seems to have paid off.

I sanded them undersize for the pocket and put a notch on the back so the edge of the pocket will get painted.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build152.jpg

Three basswood bodies ready for primer.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build153.jpg

My bridges haven't come in yet and I still need to locate them and drill string thru holes and bridge grounds but I won't let that stop me from getting a head start on the finish prep.

I don't really care for the Duplicolor primer/filler...it's gummy when sanded...but it does an excellent job of filling. Plus, I had some on hand from my last Strat build.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build154.jpg

Three gray Strats. They covered well and I can see every little dimple and scratch. No problem though. I had just enough primer to get 2 heavy coats on them.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build155.jpg

Back on the bench ready for sanding. Just a light sanding with 220 to knock down the rough surface. The high solids in this primer leave a grit on the surface no matter how wet you spray it.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build156.jpg

Here are the 3 in various stages. Sanded primer on the left, glazed with lacquer putty in the middle and blocked out on the right.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build157.jpg

I was running low on spot putty and had to employ some force to get the last bit from the tube...had just enough for all three.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build159.jpg

You can see all the imperfections the putty has taken care of. They'll get blocked out then a final glazing where needed. I'll spray one more pass of primer and then after them dry, I'll block them out with 320.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build158.jpg

I got them all blocked out last night. I was pushing to get another coat of primer on before I called it quits for the day. I got them out to the spray booth and realized I had picked up red primer instead of gray. Don't want that since I'm spraying white and silver. I'll have to swap it out for gray and get them sprayed today.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build160.jpg

Here's my 83 2 knob HT Strat.....:grin:

the twisted love child of a Tele and a Strat....YAAaaa Mule...:twisted:

it's a keeper too... :wink:...

Second round of primer is done and they're looking good. A few minor spots that need attention but nothing beyond a little glazing.

In the great outdoors.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build161.jpg

And in the booth.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build162.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build163.jpg

And, I made another pass on the alder body with 180 and 220...just to make sure I got all the little scratches and dips.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build164.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build165.jpg

Looking very nice.

Looking very nice.

Thanks, TRexF16!

After a quick clean up of the shop, I set up to fret the necks. No pics here but it's the usual steps. I re-cut all of the fret slots with a fret saw and depth stop. When I originally cut the slots it was just to mark their position...not to cut them to final depth.

All fretted, trimmed and beveled.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build166.jpg

Then I rounded the fretboard extensions.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build167.jpg

Last step before sealer was to "wear in" the edges of the fretboards. Using a utility blade, I scrape back and forth between the frets to round over the sharp edge. After that, I run a piece of 220 grit along the edges of the fretboards. It smooths out the scraped areas and slightly rounds over the ends of the frets. This makes a huge difference in the way the neck feels.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build168.jpg

After taping up the RW fretboard, I sprayed 3 light coats of sealer.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build169.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build170.jpg

I also sprayed sealer on the alder body.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build171.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build172.jpg

Next step will be to mount the necks, locate the bridges and get the string thru and ferrule holes drilled.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build173.jpg

Beautiful work, as always, Mark! I'm learning as much from this
thread as I have from your others.

Beautiful work, as always, Mark! I'm learning as much from this
thread as I have from your others.

Hey Glenn. Thanks! Good to hear from you. I haven't seen you post since back before your vacation. But, I haven't been browsing other threads much either. Hope all is well.

Not much to update today...the heat in the shop was too much last evening...probably the same tonight. :mad:

I did manage to get the necks bolted up. They all sit in the pockets very nicely. I laif the pickguards in place just for fun.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build174.jpg

I also found a Fender Vintage Style bridge like the ones I'll be using so I can gop ahead with placing the bridges and drilling string thru and ferral holes...soon as it cools down anyway.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build175.jpg

That Alder body is too nice to hide !!

Looking great as usual Mark :cool:, is the silver just the base coat for some nice dyed clearcoat or the finished colour :?:

I have to agree with Mac on the Alder body.

Keep it up matey, always enjoy your threads.

That Alder body is too nice to hide !!

I think the vintage 2-tone burst will really make it pop. So, I'm not covering it up...just dressing it up. :razz:

Looking great as usual Mark :cool:, is the silver just the base coat for some nice dyed clearcoat or the finished colour :?:

I have to agree with Mac on the Alder body.

Keep it up matey, always enjoy your threads.

Thanks, Warnz. The color right now is just gray primer. One of the 3 will be antique white, the other 2 will be a bright silver metalic like below. One of which will be clear coated and the other will get purple shader coats.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/duo/paint158.jpg

Well, a lesser (or smarter) man would have stayed in last night but I'm anxious to get color on these so I braved the 96° shop and got some work done.

First was locating the bridges. I usually use my bridge jig but it doesn't work with vintage tuners unless the headstocks have been drilled. So, I went with the strings method...it takes a bit longer but works great.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build176.jpg

With the bridge screwed down, I used it as a template with an 1/8" bit to drioll half way thru the bodies.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build177.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build178.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build179.jpg

Then I set up the pin jig on the drill press. The 1/8" bit in the chuck lines up with the butt of one in the jig.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build180.jpg

Some tape over the bridge mounting holes to keep the bit from slipping in by accident. The tape on the other side levels it out and gives me a visual "landing strip" for sighting under the body.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build181.jpg

With the body flipped over I match up each hole and drill it thru.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build182.jpg

All 4 bodies done.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build183.jpg

Then, I replace the 1/8" bit with 5/16" and drill the ferrule holes using the same pin register.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build184.jpg

Using a long 1/8" bit I drilled the path for the bridge grounds. I start at a fairly steep angle top the top and then as the bit grabs, I lay the drill down until I have the angle I want.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build186.jpg

All 4 done and back on their paint sticks. Yet another use for the Shopsmith. :wink:

They'll continue to air dry and after some final prep, I'll get color on them this weekend.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build187.jpg

I've heard of using a metal rod like the shaft of a screwdriver to "roll over" the fretboard edges, ever tried that instead of a blade?

Fantastic build, BTW.

I've heard of using a metal rod like the shaft of a screwdriver to "roll over" the fretboard edges, ever tried that instead of a blade?

Fantastic build, BTW.

Thanks, F_G!

I've seen it done with a burnishing tool...similar to a screwdriver...but I saw the blade technique in a PRS factory tour. It looked like a cool way to get a worn in, less consistant look vs a rolled edge.

Slow on the updates but plenty of work done and it's only Saturday. :razz:

The pics show that I sanded the sealer with 320, sprayed 2 coats of amber nitro on the necks followed by 3 coats of clear.

I also wet sanded the primer on the the 3 basswood bodies and sprayed 2 or them silver metallic and the other 1 sonic blue...I know, it was supposed to be white but there was a change last minute. The blue was 5 drops of Transtint blue into a half sprayer cup of Duplicolor Championship White.

Pics...the light was fading by the time I got everything hung back in the booth so I went with indoor flash. I'll post better pics tomorrow.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build188.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build189.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build190.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build191.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build192.jpg

These are looking great!

Are these commissioned jobs or do you plan to sell them after they are built?

Would your share your recipe for your neck amber? It's very tasteful. Just right.

These are looking great!

Are these commissioned jobs or do you plan to sell them after they are built?

Would your share your recipe for your neck amber? It's very tasteful. Just right.

Thanks SixShooter. At the moment they're all spoken for. You never know how that's going to go though. :shock:

This is the first time I've used sealer on a neck. I have a Fender Lead II that has several chunks of finish missing. I noticed that the bare wood grain was a different color but is still very visible thru the neck's finish. I really think the secret to getting a good amber is more in the application. It appears to be sealer, then amber, then clear. This way none of the color is on the bare wood and it makes for a more consistent application. Plus it creates a trans finish that handles light differently than just spraying amber directly onto the wood. But, I could be imagining it, too. :wink:

The amber was made like this...

I had a 1/4 quart can of nitro (about 8oz) on the shelf and I added 8 drops of vintage amber and 3 drops of tobacco brown Transtint dye. This made a very dark concentrate. To a half spray cup of clear nitro, I added about a tablespoon of the amber. I sprayed 2 double coats on the necks before following with clear coats.

Great thread! You've got a veritable production line going. I'm going to steal your idea of the blade for the fretboard edge. I've been using the little stewmac sanding stick thingy and they're a pain...

Going back here a little earlier, what brand of spot putty are you using? I ask about a lacquer compatible putty around here and you would think I have a horn out of the middle of my forehead.

Great thread! You've got a veritable production line going. I'm going to steal your idea of the blade for the fretboard edge. I've been using the little stewmac sanding stick thingy and they're a pain...

Thanks, Ratter. The blade trick is quick and easy. Takes about 5 mins to do each neck. And since I'm not really going for a consistent edge, it leaves a nice, worn-in look and feel.

Going back here a little earlier, what brand of spot putty are you using? I ask about a lacquer compatible putty around here and you would think I have a horn out of the middle of my forehead.

I think this tube is Bondo brand. Any lacquer putty, spot putty, or glazing putty that's formulated for automotive finish will work, They're made to stand up to acrylic lacquers which have the hottest solvents out there. Bondo, Evercoat lacquer putty, 3M Acryl-Red all work fine. I've never used polyester glazing putty so steer clear unless you know it's compatible.

I took some better pics this morning...

The silver basswood body...I have 2 of these. Surprisingly similar. :roll:

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build193.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build194.jpg

The Sonic blue basswood body.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build195.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build196.jpg

I wasn't sure it was blue enough but a comparison to a white cap tells the story.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build205.jpg

The alder body. I'm going to try top get the burst on it today.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build197.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build198.jpg

The rosewood neck.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build199.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build200.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build206.jpg

The maple necks... 3 of these look pretty much the same.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build201.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build202.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build203.jpg

Stewie says, "It stinks in here!"

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build204.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build207.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build208.jpg

After drying for 24 hours, it's time for decals. I wet sanded the areas where the decals will be with 600 and then used medium compound to polish them out. I've been having trouble with the surrounding material appearing ever so slightly milky after final clear and buffing. I remember Herb (adirondak5) saying that he applies his decals over a polished surface. I figure it's worth a try. Makes sense, too that the the light would pass thru differently to a polished surface vs a sanded surface under the decal.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build209.jpg

I wiped the headstocks down with Naptha to remove all traces of the compound. Then applied the decals. I used to agonize over this step but now I can knock out 4 of them in about 20 mins.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build210.jpg

I got clear coats on the 3 basswood bodies to lock in the metallic and sonic blue.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build212.jpg

Then the purple shader coats on one of them. Tough color to photograph.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build213.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build214.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build215.jpg

I also have the first stage of the burst done. I'll sand back some of the black over spray and go with the amber next. Or, maybe I'll go old school and leave the over spray. :cool:

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build216.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build217.jpg

That purple/red one might be the first solid color guitar I've ever liked!

That purple/red one might be the first solid color guitar I've ever liked!

:cool:

Probably should mention that it is a single color but not solid. Purple shader coats sprayed over a silver metallic base. The metallic shows thru nicely...it's just hard to capture with my limited photography skills. :oops:

I went ahead and sanded back the over spray. I didn't realize how much there really was until I cleared one side. Well worth the effort.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build218.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build219.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build220.jpg

Two double coats of Colortone Vintage Amber in clear. Next, I'll seal the amber with clear. I'll hang the necks in the booth too and clear coat the decals. I'll let everything dry until tomorrow evening and then spray the tobacco brown.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build221.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build222.jpg

I don't think I mentioned this before but the Sonic Blue, Silver and Purple bodies are acrylic lacquer. They'll gas off for a few days before I start nitro top coats. The sunburst and all 4 necks are all nitro.

What brand of acrylic lacquer are you using?

What brand of acrylic lacquer are you using?

Duplicolor.

Coming along nicely there matey, looking forward to seeing the burst completed.

That purply one is going to look awesome once it's polished up.

Coming along nicely there matey, looking forward to seeing the burst completed.

That purply one is going to look awesome once it's polished up.

Thanks, Warnz!

Really looking good! Sad you sanded back the burst!

And, this is just imo, there are to many holes in the pickguards you were fitting!!

And, this is just imo, there are to many holes in the pickguards you were fitting!!

No worries, I'm gonna fill in a bunch of them with pickups, pots and switches. :razz:

I took my first pass at a 2-tone burst. I'm pretty happy with it so far. I'll need to make another pass and darken the brown a bit at the edges to get coverage at the black like I want. Now that I know I can control the spray pattern, I may go back with a little black to blend it in instead of overloading it with brown.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build223.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build224.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build225.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build226.jpg

Oh yes, very nice!

So amazing to watch a master work fantastic work mate.

Oh yes, very nice!

Thanks, Glen!

So amazing to watch a master work fantastic work mate.

Well, that's quite generous of you to say. I was sweatin' and shakin' the whole time I was spraying. I guess the next one will be easier.

Thanks for the kind words.

I made another pass with the tobacco brown after adding a few more drops of dye. The second pass blended everything right in. Then I hit it with 3 coats of clear before I was tempted to do any more. :roll:

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build227.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build228.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build229.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build230.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build231.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build232.jpg

Looking very nice... the last round made it just about perfect

Wow, amazing work!

Great job on the burst Mark, looks perfect.

I agree, that burst sure is nice.

Looking very nice... the last round made it just about perfect

Wow, amazing work!

Great job on the burst Mark, looks perfect.

I agree, that burst sure is nice.

Thanks, guys!

very very nice work

Looks like it's time for an addition to the paint room :razz:.

Great burst man! The sonic blue one looks crasy too.

That burst looks swell Mark. Just a question born of curiosity , your clear coat looks orange peelish. As a very part time user of spray finishes I thought that the whole point of having a compressor etc was to be able to get darn close to a finish straight off the bat. Did the heat get you again ? I could see where that could be an issue.
I know its not that big a deal as wet sanding etc will get it down but nonetheless .... Your build challenge guitar had the same thing till you tweaked your mix.
Always interested Mark as you know.
BTW awsome progress doing 4 at a time.

Mac

I was looking at a tele build, and then this one, again. Which got me thinking... Which is nicer? Teles or Strats? What are the advantages and disadvantages to building each?

looking great!

very very nice work

Great burst man! The sonic blue one looks crasy too.

looking great!

Thanks, folks!

Looks like it's time for an addition to the paint room :razz:.

Yeah, with four guitars it's a bit cramped. I may build out the other end of the shed to match when it cools down. It would be nice to have a place to hang parts when I change color or clear so I don't have to worry about over spray.

That burst looks swell Mark. Just a question born of curiosity , your clear coat looks orange peelish. As a very part time user of spray finishes I thought that the whole point of having a compressor etc was to be able to get darn close to a finish straight off the bat. Did the heat get you again ? I could see where that could be an issue.
I know its not that big a deal as wet sanding etc will get it down but nonetheless .... Your build challenge guitar had the same thing till you tweaked your mix.
Always interested Mark as you know.
BTW awsome progress doing 4 at a time.

Mac

Thanks, Mac!

It was hot but the truth is, I made some adjustments in my air pressure and gun settings when I was spraying the Duplicolor on the other 3 bodies. I thought I had a plan but the nitro seems to want different settings. It's obvious, too, that the nitro is a bit more viscous in the can than the acrylics. One of these days I'll get it all dialed in.

I didn't dare thin or ****** the burst colors since I was spraying small bits over a longer period of time...feared sags or runs.

You're right though. A little wet sanding and it will be fine. I'll go back to the other approach from my Challenge build for final clear coats. About 10% lacquer thinner and a splash of retarder if the heat is up.

I was looking at a tele build, and then this one, again. Which got me thinking... Which is nicer? Teles or Strats? What are the advantages and disadvantages to building each?

Apples and oranges, my friend. Different guitars with their own voice and they each seem to have cut a niche in their own corners of the music biz...of course with some very notable crossover here and there.

Building them is pretty much the same. No surprises going from one to the other. Especially since these are hardtails...very similar build to a Tele.

I was looking at a tele build, and then this one, again. Which got me thinking... Which is nicer? Teles or Strats? What are the advantages and disadvantages to building each?

Which is nicer? Red or Blue? Some people like red and some like blue!

The Tele, being a simpler design is a tiny bit easier to build. And (in my opinion) it's a better platform for doing different things. Just look at the wide variety of Teles on this forum... most Strats just look like... a Strat! (Not that they aren't a nice guitar!)

Thanks, Mac!

It was hot but the truth is, I made some adjustments in my air pressure and gun settings when I was spraying the Duplicolor on the other 3 bodies. I thought I had a plan but the nitro seems to want different settings. It's obvious, too, that the nitro is a bit more viscous in the can than the acrylics. One of these days I'll get it all dialed in.

I didn't dare thin or ****** the burst colors since I was spraying small bits over a longer period of time...feared sags or runs.

You're right though. A little wet sanding and it will be fine. I'll go back to the other approach from my Challenge build for final clear coats. About 10% lacquer thinner and a splash of retarder if the heat is up.

Be careful on those curves dear fellow , you know how easy it is to pop through.
I do like that tobacco burst , kinda organic.

M

No new pics but everything has been level sanded and had final clear coats sprayed. Bodies & necks hanging in the hot shed...ick, I just creeped myself out. Now we wait. Which is a good thing because I have 12 single coil pickups to wind.

Stay tuned!

No new pics but everything has been level sanded and had final clear coats sprayed. Bodies & necks hanging in the hot shed...ick, I just creeped myself out. Now we wait. Which is a good thing because I have 12 single coil pickups to wind.

Stay tuned!

The spray jobs turned out great, Mark. The burst was super
and I like the dark purple, too. I look forward to seeing your
ideas on winding.

Alright, bets on whether he uses his shopsmith for pickup winding? Anyone?

All joking aside, Mark, this is a great thread. Whenever you start a new thread, i seem to always find myself checking it daily. Keep up the good work.

The spray jobs turned out great, Mark. The burst was super
and I like the dark purple, too. I look forward to seeing your
ideas on winding.

Thanks, Glenn. Good to hear from you.

I wouldn't expect any surprises on the winding. I'm following tried and true procedures. My coil winder is AC and only has one plate, so I'm going to have to figure out the RWRP middle PUs.

Alright, bets on whether he uses his shopsmith for pickup winding? Anyone?

All joking aside, Mark, this is a great thread. Whenever you start a new thread, i seem to always find myself checking it daily. Keep up the good work.

Thanks. I'm glad you enjoy them. I feel like I'm repeating myself most of the time but I like to have complete build threads.

No PU winding on the Shopsmith...it doesn't have a counter. :sad:

My coil winder is AC and only has one plate, so I'm going to have to figure out the RWRP middle PUs.

Mount the bobbin upside down. I have a plate of plywood that I attach to my winder, with a channel cut into it for magnets that extend beyond the bobbin. this allows me to put the bobbin in upside down, or wind jazzmaster pickups for example. You could double stick tape the wooden plate to the winder, then double stick tape the bobbin to the wooden plate.

Mount the bobbin upside down. I have a plate of plywood that I attach to my winder, with a channel cut into it for magnets that extend beyond the bobbin. this allows me to put the bobbin in upside down, or wind jazzmaster pickups for example. You could double stick tape the wooden plate to the winder, then double stick tape the bobbin to the wooden plate.

Thanks, Michael. That sounds like a good plan. Any chance you could post a pic of your setup?

I was thinking along those lines but hadn't put it to paper yet. Do you use this with staggered pole pieces? All of mine are staggered. I can see the clearance for them being no problem but taping the bobbin to the wooden plate might be a bear. I was thinking of a couple of very small N-dym mags in the E string positions and I could just snap the bobbin in place.

The problem with using the magnets to hold it in place like you're thinking, is that you're going to charge those poles. Part of the magic of winding your own is the winging it when it comes to charging magnets, so it probably won't be a big deal but if you're trying to be precise and don't have a gauss meter then you won't be able to accurately degauss those poles and then recharge.

I lay a strip of tape on both sides of the channel, and then on the ends of the bobbin where the mounting screws go. This overlaps enough to keep it all secure. If the channel is deep enough than all magnets, staggered or uniform should fit.

Here's a pic of mine. I kicked the machine (which i foolishly keep under my desk) and broke the thing, but I took a CD and covered it in foil. Cut out a slot to trip my optical sensor. The disc is taped onto the wheel of a sewing machine. The wood plate is taped on and then the bobbin taped onto that. Notice, this channel is really wide. I just had this scrap from some routing practice or something. I end up angling the bobbin so both holes for the mounting screws extend beyond the channel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/soma_hero/IMAG0595.jpg

Here's a pic of mine. I kicked the machine (which i foolishly keep under my desk) and broke the thing, but I took a CD and covered it in foil. Cut out a slot to trip my optical sensor. The disc is taped onto the wheel of a sewing machine. The wood plate is taped on and then the bobbin taped onto that. Notice, this channel is really wide. I just had this scrap from some routing practice or something. I end up angling the bobbin so both holes for the mounting screws extend beyond the channel.


Thanks, Michael! Great info and nice of you to share it. I'll follow your lead and make a plate that I can attach.

I got started on the PUs last night. I'm winding six A2 kits and six A5 kits from StewMac. Pretty simple process and in no way a definitive PU winding tutorial. Just my experiences.

I have my 7/16" spacers and tap tool ready to go. I made mine out of PVC so they can't compress or distort in any way.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build233.jpg

I started by sorting the magnets...since they're staggered...then, working on top of the vice, I tapped them in from shortest to tallest.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build235.jpg

When I had all 6 in the bottom flatwork, I tapped the top flatwork onto the 2 tallest poles. This seemed to stabilize everything so the spacers go in real easily. The flatwork bottoms out as it's fully over the pole pieces so there's no risk of setting it too far down at this stage.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build236.jpg

Then I put in the spacers and used the tap tool to set the flatwork. First the 2 center poles, then working my way out.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build237.jpg

All of the A2 PUs done

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build234.jpg

Same process for all the A5 PUs. StewMac was nice enough to send one kit with 2 bottom plates, so I'll have to get that one replaced. :roll:

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build238.jpg

Here's what I've come up with for the coil winder to wind RWRP PUs.

The main issue is it's a coil winder, not a PU winder. So, it's only made to wind on one side. The other side has 2 pulleys and not enough axle to add another winding plate.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/coil winder02.jpg

So, I have this on the winding side. A 3/8" thick aluminum plate that has a set screw to tighten it to the axle.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/coil winder01.jpg

My plan is to replace this with 2 pieces of PVC sheet. One to actually replece the aluminum and the other with a reccess that let's me mount the bobbins either direction. This will be permanant and eliminate the need to adjust the wire guides since the reference from the flatwork to the guide will be the same no matter which way the bobbin is mounted. At least that's the plan. :cool:

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/coil winder03.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/coil winder04.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/coil winder05.jpg

Might be an idea to round over the near edges of the PVC to ensure no catching. Just a precaution mind you.

M

Might be an idea to round over the near edges of the PVC to ensure no catching. Just a precaution mind you.

M

Definitely. I did the same on the aluminum plate.

That's some smart thinking. Jw, how do you plan on attaching the flatwork?

That's some smart thinking. Jw, how do you plan on attaching the flatwork?

Thanks. I've been using foam mounting tape. It has plenty of bite and lifts the bobbin enough that the eyelets don't touch the plate.

Who would have thought that the TDPRI would ever have it's very own Macgyver.

Just stick Mark in his shed with a digital watch, rubber band and some PVC glue and in 5 minutes you got a pickup winder :lol:

Great stuff as always Mark :cool: Love these gadgets.

I think you can cut and grind tha bottom plate to make a top plate if you're in a hurry.

I think you can cut and grind tha bottom plate to make a top plate if you're in a hurry.

Do you mean so he has one plate instead of adding another one?

Do you mean so he has one plate instead of adding another one?

I think crazygtr is referring to the PU kit with 2 bottom plates. :razz:

Who would have thought that the TDPRI would ever have it's very own Macgyver.

Just stick Mark in his shed with a digital watch, rubber band and some PVC glue and in 5 minutes you got a pickup winder :lol:

Great stuff as always Mark :cool: Love these gadgets.

I'd probably need a garden rake, 3 blank CDs and some bubble wrap, too. :lol:

Thanks, Warnz!

I think you can cut and grind tha bottom plate to make a top plate if you're in a hurry.

Yeah, thought about that but I'm not in a hurry. We'll see how Stewmac responds...I've never been unhappy with their customer service. I'm sure they'll make it good. :cool:

While looking at this I thought of something. The PVC might not be strong enough to not strip when tightening to the axle. I doubt it is a lot of pressure.. But still. I have two solutions! Hot glue the appropriate hex nut (even better, a lock nut) or cut a small divet in the axle to screw into.

I super glued all of the flatwork and let them set up.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build241.jpg

Then I made a sanding stick out of a paint stick and some 180 grit and cleaned up the edges of the flatwork.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build242.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build243.jpg

Then gave them a coat of clear.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build244.jpg

what's the point of the clear?

While they were drying I started on the winder plate. Here's the original aluminum plate. My winder doesn't look anything like my 3D model...I was going by memory. :oops:

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build245.jpg

I ripped a strip if 1/4" PVC sheet at 1.25" wide and then cut three 4.25" pieces from that. Two them were face glued with PVC cement and clamped in the vise.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build246.jpg

Then they were center drilled and tapped for the set screws.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build247.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build248.jpg

The third piece had a slot cut in it. I used a gude on the drill press and a 3/8" Forstner bit.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build249.jpg

After mounting the first piece to the axle, I face glued the third piece in place. After the whole assembly sets up over night, I'll clean up the sides and edges on the ROSS.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build250.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build251.jpg

All drid and ready to go...sans the one that had to bottom plates. StewMac has already confirmed a replacement is on the way. They rock!

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build252.jpg

The flatwork sits tight to the plate in both positions just like I planned it.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build253.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build254.jpg

Ready for some winding!!!

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build255.jpg

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet

While looking at this I thought of something. The PVC might not be strong enough to not strip when tightening to the axle. I doubt it is a lot of pressure.. But still. I have two solutions! Hot glue the appropriate hex nut (even better, a lock nut) or cut a small divet in the axle to screw into.

Yep, definitely a concern. The axle is keyed on one side and I made sure one of the screws lines up with it. It tightened up fine. PVC holds threads surprisingly well. If it gives me any issues, I'll just drill thru the axle and run a bolt thru both sides and put a Nyloc on the bolt.

I'll do a test run with some thread or twine so I can load up a bobbin pretty quickly and see how she spins. That oddball PU kit will serve me well for testing. :twisted:

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet

:cool: :cool: :cool:

Really like it! What type of winder is that?

Really like it! What type of winder is that?

Thanks. It's a Chinese coil winder that I bought off eBay several years back. I can't remember the seller and I couldn't find anymore like it on auction. It looks to be hand labeled and assembled so there's no brand or maker's mark on it.

what's the point of the clear?

The clear seals any loose fibers from sanding and makes a slick finish for the coil wire to bear against if it makes contact during winding. It also makes the finished product look better...otherwise, it would be dry looking and scuffed up.

Here's my setup now. I have the winder with new plate and foot control. It's plugged into a router speed controller. It gives speed control as well as a kill switch.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build256.jpg

I've made RPM marks on the dial so I can make quick, predictable adjustments. I calculated the RPM by resetting the counter, running full foot pedal for 15 secs then multiplying by 4.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build257.jpg

I did a quick test this morning to check balance and centering. Tonight, we wind!

l8ZqnKHe14s

Hey GN,

That's a sweet rig you got there! Great eBay score! So what is the plan for the winds? I know you have some A2 and A5. Are you in the scatter wind or even layer camp? Will you be making an Arthur Brown set? ;-)

Rob

Hey GN,

That's a sweet rig you got there! Great eBay score! So what is the plan for the winds? I know you have some A2 and A5. Are you in the scatter wind or even layer camp? Will you be making an Arthur Brown set? ;-)

Rob

Thanks. It wasn't cheap...$180 shipped. But, it works great, has easily replacable parts and is obviously versitile. :twisted:

I tend to overwind so I'll be more in the even layer camp. I'm not sure what you mean by Arthur Brown set...Googled it, came up empty. Ir that where they mix Alnico mag types in the same PU?

i got started on the winding last night. It went very smoothly. I only had to cut wire from one bobbin and that was because I ran out of wire on a previously used spool. :mad:

The rest of the evening went well. I wound all of the A2 bobbins. The replacement A5 kit will be in this evening and I'll get them wound so I can solder leads and pot all 12 this weekend.

Here's the setup. One great thing about a small coil winder is that it can be set up on an indoor table...out of the heat. Though the heat has finally broken here in the mid west. The low this morning is 66° and our high today will be 83*°...pure heaven compared to the 105° we had a few weeks back.

One thing I noticed right away is that using slow rpm may actually cause more problems than it appears to avoid. There is more consistent tension at higher rpm and the wire stacks tighter. Once I confirmed the alignment of my guides, I ran at 1500rpm most of the time.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build258.jpg

I learned during my Challenge build that the foot pedal is more of a hassle than it's worth so I clamped it off and set it aside...using the rotary adjustment on the router speed control was too easy.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build259.jpg

The results...

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build260.jpg

One of the things that got me several times was forgetting to stop the wind at the bottom of the bobbin so the lead to the eyelet is on the flatwork...after seeing this pic, I fixed the one in the foreground. :oops:

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build261.jpg

I forgot to mention the winding specs.

A2 mags, 42awg, plain enamel wire

B = 8600 appox. 6.6K
M = 8200 approx. 6.1K RWRP
N = 8000 approx. 5.9K

A5 mags, 42awg, plain enamel wire

B = 9100 appox. 6.8K
M = 8500 approx. 6.5K RWRP
N = 8200 approx. 6.1K

Thanks. It wasn't cheap...$180 shipped. But, it works great, has easily replacable parts and is obviously versitile. :twisted:

I tend to overwind so I'll be more in the even layer camp. I'm not sure what you mean by Arthur Brown set...Googled it, came up empty. Ir that where they mix Alnico mag types in the same PU?

Hey GN,

An Arthur Brown set is when you crazily scatter wind to Arthur Brown's song "Fire" and come up with a specially mojoed set as a result. ;-)

Rob

Hey GN,

I may have missed it but did you RWRP the middle pickup?

Rob

Thanks. It wasn't cheap...$180 shipped. But, it works great, has easily replacable parts and is obviously versitile. :twisted:

I tend to overwind so I'll be more in the even layer camp. I'm not sure what you mean by Arthur Brown set...Googled it, came up empty. Ir that where they mix Alnico mag types in the same PU?

I think Rob is talking about listening to "Fire" (Arthur Brown) while winding , for a little xtra mojo , I usually listen to Screaming J Hawkins when I wind :D

Edit:
Looks like I type to slow

Hey GN,

An Arthur Brown set is when you crazily scatter wind to Arthur Brown's song "Fire" and come up with a specially mojoed set as a result. ;-)

Rob

I did find a video of him doing that song with Alice Cooper...now I get it. :lol:

Hey GN,

I may have missed it but did you RWRP the middle pickup?

Rob

I did. That's the reason for the slot in the winding plate...to clear the staggered pole pieves. Need to add that to my specs.

I think Rob is talking about listening to "Fire" (Arthur Brown) while winding , for a little xtra mojo , I usually listen to Screaming J Hawkins when I wind :D

Edit:
Looks like I type to slow

Hey Herb,

Holy Crap, I am a HUGE SJH fan! "Move Me" , "Constipation Blues" and of course "I Put A Spell On You" being favorites.

Rob

...I usually listen to Screaming J Hawkins when I wind :D


Last night I was listening to an episode of Hoarders, Buried Alive that my wife was watching. Does that mean my PUs are going to be full of crap??? :lol:

Last night I was listening to an episode of Hoarders, Buried Alive that my wife was watching. Does that mean my PUs are going to be full of crap??? :lol:

You tone may be a bit congested. ;-)

Last night I was listening to an episode of Hoarders, Buried Alive that my wife was watching. Does that mean my PUs are going to be full of crap??? :lol:

Now that's just funny Mark , I'll chuckle all day :)

I've got two words for you...

IN SANE!!!!

Best winder on the site. Good job man!

I almost forgot that you were building guitars here! I love the pickups, they look real professional!

You tone may be a bit congested. ;-)

And a danger to my health. :lol:

Now that's just funny Mark , I'll chuckle all day :)

I come up with a jewel every now and then... :wink:

I've got two words for you...

IN SANE!!!!

Best winder on the site. Good job man!

I almost forgot that you were building guitars here! I love the pickups, they look real professional!

Thanks, guys!

I started off the day by winding the last A5. StewMac sent a replacement, no issues. It was to be a RWRP and I had all 8500 turns on it and as I was taking it off the winder, i noticed one little wrap had popped over the top flatwork. I tried to fit it back into place but broke it in the process. So, I stripped it and started again. This time catching the wire under the foam tape. Round 3 was about 3000 turns in and the wire hung up and snapped. There wasn't enough on the wire spool to start again so I broke out the last spool I have. I pulled the tab to start the roll and after unwinding about 5' or so, I noticed that it was pinched at the edge of the roll under what looked like 10 or 12 wraps that didn't seat properly on the spool. So, I lifted a wrap in the center of the roll and broke the wire. I got a 50/50 chance of getting this right. Hooked up one end, took off winding and got to about 1000 turns and snap! Cleaned off the bobbin for the 3rd time and started with the other end and finally, success!

If this had been my first of 12 instead of my last, I probably would have given up on PU winding.

But, I made it thru the winding and moved on to soldering the leads. No issues there except when that solder hits any residue from the CA, holy smoke that vapor will make your eyes burn and take your breath away...but I hear it's great for lifting fingerprints. :razz:

I also magnetized them using a pretty hefty Ndym magnet. Actually, I have 2 of them but I couldn't get them apart. So, I followed Bill S's approach and moved them from front side to back side a few times. I held the RWRP middle PUs the opposite direction and it all worked out great.

I checked DC resistance and I have 12 good coils. My impedance estimates were off by a couple hundred ohms on a few. No big deal. I hooked each to an amp input and did a tap test on each pole and they're firing on all cylinders.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build262.jpg


http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build263.jpg

Time for a hot wax bath. :twisted:

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build264.jpg

I made tis mark on my first potting adventure and started there. Using a candy thermometer I was within a few degrees of 150°.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build266.jpg

Bubble, bubble, bubble. I let the first 6 sit for 15 mins but noticed at that point, the tiny little bubbles really stated appearing so I left them in for another 10 mins.

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build265.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build267.jpg

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build268.jpg

I was going to start assembling the PGs today but it was at this point that I realized I forgot to order PU covers. :roll:

http://www.crenshawweb.com/quad/build269.jpg

Nice job! I guess it is those little "oops" moments that push up the cost per coil.

"I was going to start assembling the PGs today but it was at this point that I realized I forgot to order PU covers."

AAAAARRRRRRGGGGG!!!!! Well, s!!t happens. I'll just have to wait a little more to see the finished product. ( dying to ).

Nice job! I guess it is those little "oops" moments that push up the cost per coil.

True, but I'm still way ahead of 12 retail PUs. :wink:

"I was going to start assembling the PGs today but it was at this point that I realized I forgot to order PU covers."

AAAAARRRRRRGGGGG!!!!! Well, s!!t happens. I'll just have to wait a little more to see the finished product. ( dying to ).

They'll come together pretty soon. I'm going to sand and buff the bodies and necks starting today. :cool:

Great to watch your builds as always ...love the pickup photo series - I'm sure I spotted some art there!:cool:

Great to watch your builds as always ...love the pickup photo series - I'm sure I spotted some art there!:cool:

Thanks, ModerneGuy. My winding is a work in progress for sure but I feel better about it after a run of 12. :cool:

I didn't get anything done yesterday. It was my birthday and though I had planned to spend the day in the shop, I just couldn't get motivated. I puttered around the house all day, played guitar for a few hours and capped off the day with pepperoni pan pizza, ice cold beer and NASCAR on the big screen. Life is good!

Plus, it won't hurt to let the lacquer dry another few days. :cool:

Happy belated Birthday.