Best attenuator for low watt amps

I'm looking at getting an attenuator to truly give my amps an apartment friendly volume.

I recently made a 5F1 thinking 5W might be a manageable thing, but no dice - its a seriously loud mofo of an amp - far too loud to dime with neighbours in close proximity. And as good as it sounds, if I had have been knowledgeable of the sheer volume of this amp I'd have just built a 5E3.

Problem is I've caught the DIY bug - I now want to build a blackface PR and a 1974X. Rather than looking to lower their wattage via components I think I'll make them as they should be and use an attenuator... until the last day or two attenuation never even crossed my mind.

So what options exist? I kinda like my 15 - 20W combos, so an attenuator to best suit would be ideal.

Weber Mini Mass.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it,but a Weber Mini Mass works great,..........wink wink:wink:

25W or 50W?

25W Weber mini mass.

If you can find one....early on, Weber made a crude one in a small plain pedal sized box. You can mount it right into the amp with a little velcro. I've got that one tucked in the back of my Marshall Class 5.

I also have the newer model paired with my BFDR.

For what it's worth, I've used the 25W MM with my old Vibrolux Reverb. Yes, that amp puts out more than 25W....but I never had any problem.

But - all attenuators are the same in one regard....if you turn them down too low, the tone will suffer. They're supposed to bring the volume down to a manageable level while the amp is cranked.

Anyway, the Webers work and they're relatively inexpensive.

This one is great, although it may be more than you want to spend:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/tone-king-ironman-guitar-amp-attenuator?src=3WWRWXGB

This one is great, although it may be more than you want to spend:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/tone-king-ironman-guitar-amp-attenuator?src=3WWRWXGB

$850? For an attenuator?

I'd just get a different small amp....or two.

$850? For an attenuator?

I'd just get a different small amp....or two.

Anything from Tone King has about a 500% markup on what it really should cost. You expect it from those types of brands.

The Weber is nice and simple, cheap but also has a nice treble switch that helps restore some of the highs you lose when you really use higher levels of attenuation.

I have the 50W version which is more than enough for most bedroom amps. Remember though, amps are rated at clean wattage, not peak or breakup. That 5w amp is only 5w CLEAN. Once you start getting some real overdrive you're putting out more wattage. Figure at least DOUBLE the wattage output (minimum) with the volume cranked to max. That being said, a 50w attenuator should be enough to dime anything under 18-20w at least.

You can easily modify an amp like the 5F1 with a master volume

Example - replace the 220k before the 6V6 with a potentiometer of 220k log (250k)

That way you can drive V1b with the vol pot (gain) and drop the volume where you like with the master. Cheap too.

Btw - the humble 6V6 has a Pa (max) of 12 watts, that's when the anode melts, it cannot exceed that at the top of the signal swing. Under normal use it is a 4.5W (at 8%thd) bottle, and EL84 actually has much greater output (5.7 - 7 watts). But don't let that fool you, a "5W" guitar amp feeds a high efficiency speaker, it is a "public address" amplifier - hence intentionally a lot louder than an equivalent power valve hifi or wireless radio receiver.

I have the 50W version which is more than enough for most bedroom amps. Remember though, amps are rated at clean wattage, not peak or breakup. That 5w amp is only 5w CLEAN. Once you start getting some real overdrive you're putting out more wattage. Figure at least DOUBLE the wattage output (minimum) with the volume cranked to max. That being said, a 50w attenuator should be enough to dime anything under 18-20w at least.

Back in the day, I called Ted (when he was alive) and asked which to get for my DR. He said the 25W was more than adequate. While what you say is true about manufacturer wattage ratings, Ted rated his attenuators with respect to the stated amp output. There's no need to get an attenuator that's double the rating.

$850? For an attenuator?

I'd just get a different small amp....or two.

It is a great attenuator though, especially if you need bedroom level attenuation. I actually don't use mine for that (just take a few db's off), so maybe I could have gone with a mass or whatever, but the Tone King is great.

I have an older Mini mass and I prefer the Brake Lite. I think you will like the fact that these can be cleanly installed in your amp. I have one in my Princeton Reverb and one in my Vibro Champ. Downside: more expensive. You could try the cheaper Mini mass to see if an attenuator is going to work for you. They seem more available on ebay at a discount. With any attenuator by the time you knock it down really low to "apartment level" you may not like the way it sounds. I can play my VC at home with the Brake Lite set at 2 clicks without complaints from my wife and the tone is essentially unaffected -- it is awesome, in fact. I personally think attenuators should be standard equipment on tube amps -- I love em. Best way to consistently get that "cranked" tone.


http://drzamps.com/products/brake_lite.html

Anything Weber. Just get the one that you need from the variety that they make.

Back in the day, I called Ted (when he was alive) and asked which to get for my DR. He said the 25W was more than adequate. While what you say is true about manufacturer wattage ratings, Ted rated his attenuators with respect to the stated amp output. There's no need to get an attenuator that's double the rating.

Weber's might be, but that doesn't mean everyone else's are rated likewise. Assuming Weber's under rated wattage amounts apply across the board is a very dangerous assumption to make. THD, Dr Z and everyone else who makes them, might rank them on an actual peak wattage/clean wattage scale. In which case, if you crank an 18w amp into a 25w attenuator something is more than likely going to give.

check out a VVR3 from hallamplification.com.

has kits for cathode and fixed bias ampps



VVR3 modification
In its simplest form, the VVR circuit simply takes the power supply voltage from the amplifier's power transformer and rectifier and adds a control pot. You can rotate the pot to dial in as much or as little voltage as you want.

So, where an 18W amplifier might have a full B+ voltage of approximately 350V, you can dial it down to perhaps 250V, 180V, 115V, etc. The attraction is that you get cranked amp tone at a lower room volume. For instance, dial the amplifier down from 350V to 115V and you have one-third of the original supply - approximately one-ninth of the amplifier's full power output. About 2W in our 18W example.

That's all that VVR on cathode-biased amps needs to do. In effect, you simply break the B+ path right after the rectifier, connect it to the VVR board and then connect the output of the VVR board (and a ground) to the rest of the amplifier circuit.

i think it would make a 5 watt amp on its lowest setting be about .55 watts and is much cheaper that an attenuator.

Ok then - attenuator vs vvr... pros and cons of each and their impact on final sound?

The apartment friendly volume issue was solved for me when I bought my Trinity Tramp with it's swappable power tube 6V6 (6watts) or 6L6 (12watts) plus it has an onboard VVR (Trinity call it a "VRM" - Voltage Regulation Module). The VRM works very well to get you nice tone at low levels. I just set the volume I want and then lower the VRM (drops the B+ voltage) and it starts to "Brown Out" the tone giving a nice smooth breakup tone without messing with the basic tone that I dialed in. Adding a VVR to the Champ would probably get you close to the same result, I also have a Weber Mini-Mass 25W and the VRM sounds much better to my ears when dialing in very low volumes, the Mini-Mass does work great for just taking the edge off the volume at gig levels though.

A description of tones available with the VRM in the Tramp (http://trinityamps.com/Product_Tramp.htm)

i think most people that have used both feel the vvr retains much better note definition.

vvr is easier on tubes

I have a micromass rated for 15W. It has a high and low seperate attenuation. Depending on what you want to do - it works well to bring the volume down. If you want a whisper nothing will work - pedal, 1 watt amp, attenuator. I am convinced you need a certain volume to sound decent.

I would first try an inefficient speaker. Then a micromass. You can PM me if you want - I mainly play clean now and occasionally use a pedal for dirt.

http://www.roadrageprogear.com/volume_pedals.html

i think most people that have used both feel the vvr retains much better note definition.

vvr is easier on tubes

On one of my scratchbuild amps, I purposefully went with an old PT that I had kicking around that has puts a low B+ to the mains, and I run both 6V6 and 6L6 tubes with cathode bias.

Even with solid state rectification, it has a nice and warm sound with the low voltages, and the note definition is really good - not mushy or anything.

And yes - the tubes last considerably longer in that setup.

I wasn't sure if it would work as I wasn't following a textbook VVR recipe - just trying to reverse engineer an "insufficient" PT to work for this setup.

The amp also has a long tailed PI and just sounds really good despite the low voltages. Something one might suspect with a tweed design. The amp can still get fairly loud, but is no match for a DR, even with 6L6's.

It was kinda odd getting used to that setup, because the vol knob doesn't do much beyond 11:00 or so - it just saturates more.

If you're going to scratchbuild an amp with certain design facets in mind, it certainly doesn't hurt to consider hardwiring features like a VVR into it, or whatever else you might want. If you build something with a long tailed PI in it, the Ken Fischer-type post PI master works pretty well, too.

I tend to gravitate towards amp things that are a little more low tech in nature. But maybe I see VVR as low tech when it isn't.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j269/chubbo_2006/minicolossal.jpg

Peavey JSX Mini Colossal

5 tube watts, built in attenuator in the back, can add a cabinet and has a switch from 4 to 16 ohm

HUGE sound as quiet as you would like.... great studio amp for leads

Yeah but $500-$600 is a lot for a small 5w combo.

Yeah but $500-$600 is a lot for a small 5w combo.

I agree - grab a VHT Special 6 for a fraction of that price and tweak the crap out of it. Even stock, it's one heck of a great sounding amp. With a turretboard circuitboard, it can be tweaked easily and quickly.

You can even run a EL34/KT66/etc. in it for about an hour or so if you watch the PT temp! To be honest, anything over a 6L6 is ridiculous, and I think 6V6's sound fantastic in it.

Super impressive little SE amp. The octal power tube makes it so much cooler than the little EL84 beasties IMO. And the stock OT is friggin' great - lots of punch and low end stock. I have a Blackheart Little Giant and had to upgrade the OT to get the same performance.

My Special 6 is almost loud enough to compete with a Princeton Reverb.

Get a nice 8" speaker and THIS
Seriously, any amp with a master volume will solve your problems
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/attachments/amp-central-station/131954d1340476423-orange-micro-terror-img0699-large-jpg

Thanks for the alternative amp suggestions guys but i'm looking to control the level of THIS amp, not buy another. It's an 5F1 running into a Weber 12a125a 1x12", and will be mainly used as a recording amp. I could buy an 8" speaker and knock 10dB off straight away, but I prefer the tone of a 12" speaker at any volume.

I just need to knock a few dB off so I can practise into the night and not have the neighbours on my back. But when daylight comes or I go to record, I want to have the unmolested 5F1 I built at my disposal.

I'm sure between an attenuator and a VVR there's a winning solution... hmmm... time for some more research.

I use a THD Hotplate on my '57 Tweed Deluxe RI and it is the perfect solution for playing at home.