OK to ask 335 tech question here???

Gonna gut my 335 copy and replace everything. Gonna pay someone to do it actually. So, I need to buy : 2 pickups, 4 pots, a switch and a jack. Pretty sure I want Gibson '57 Classics for pickups.

Could you recommend, as specifically as possible, which pots, Jack and switch would be the BEST I can buy? Pot values and part numbers would be awesome.

Thanks

Probably supposed to be in "just pickups"

Imo Tonerider Rocksong are better than Classic 57s

Stock wiring calls for 2x500k log vol pots and 2x500k log tone pots with 22nf on each one. I find the tone controls better with 250k log pots.
For a 335 top you need "medium shaft" pots and a short toggle (Epi) Switchcraft selector switch or the right-angled toggle (335) type, jack is Switchcraft again.

If you use CTS pots then you might have to re-drill the pot holes but full-size Alpha are just as reliable (as fitted to Epi).

What does "log" pots mean?

Awesome info. Thanks. Just what I needed. The guitar was built at the Samick factory in Korea in the late 1990s.

Tell me more about the toneriders

Audio taper pots. They have the same volume increase as the ear hears - which isn't linear, it's logarithmic.

I always advise my customers to replace the electronics only if something's not working or if you have a specific reason that you want to change them. The idea that it must be junk because it's an import was probably valid 15 years ago. Unless you bought an absolutely crappy guitar, the pots, switch, and jack are probably just fine.

As for the pickups, everyone's ear is different. My go-to is the Duncan '59, which I like more than the Gibson '57. I think it has a more even response throughout the tonal range (the '57 always gives me a weird upper mid honk). There are tons of Gibson semi-hollow guitars that come with '57s stock; getcherself down to the guitar store and try one out. If you love them in that guitar, chances are good that you'll love them in yours.

Main reason for replacing the electronics is this. All four pots have a narrow taper, too narrow. As in, little vol and tone change 10-7, then A LOT 6-3, then hardly none 3-1. And the tone pots dont really do much, get very bassy/mushy. The pickups could be hotter, bridge less bright, neck more bright.

Im also gonna eventually replace the bridge, tailpiece, and nut/tuners. The guitar looks stunning, feels and plays awesome. I just feel it could sound better.

Stock wiring calls for 2x500k log vol pots and 2x500k log tone pots with 22nf on each one.

Actually, "stock" wiring from Gibson has changed and you'll often find 300K linear pots for volume in Gibsons as well as in Epiphones.

Not sure what copy you're talking about, but if it's an Epi then there's probably nothing wrong with the toggle switch (they've used decent ones fo a few years now) or the pots (alphas are fine and they turn very smoothly). However you can bet that the jack isn't Switchcraft quality (you'll need a long shaft jack, though) and the wires are generally poorly shielded. Pickups are hit and miss so don't write them off unless they actually sound bad to you.

Big upgrade for those guitars is a new nut. If your budget allows, a Tone Pros locking bridge and tailpiece are nice so long as you can get un-notched saddles to space the strings to fit your frets (sometimes the bevels on the fret ends are so flat that it robs useful fretboard width). Before spending money on those parts, though, I'd have a professionally done fret dressing ("level and crown") for playability.

Well, I had 500k logs in my Epi. I fiddle with stuff if it ain't broken anyway.

But they were the mini Alpha pots, the disadvantage here is that they have shorter tracks than the full size ones. Me I prefer linear vol pots any way so I retro-fitted full size Alpha pots 2x500k lin + 2x250k log tone.
But I have since changed all that by fitting an Epi "Lucille" Varitone, which is going OT...


A log "audio" pot is a funny thing. It does not follow the human hearing level all that well. They all consist of three of maybe four linear tracks laid end to end. They actually approximate an anti-logarithmic curve which fools our ears into believing it is hearing a logarithmic increase in level. There is also a thing called a "reverse-log" pot, which naturally approximates a reverse-anti-logarithmic curve. Hope that makes sense ;)

I have a 335 Dot reissue I replaced the pickups with a Duncan 59 bridge and Duncan Jazz neck. Its just about perfect.

Main reason for replacing the electronics is this. All four pots have a narrow taper, too narrow. As in, little vol and tone change 10-7, then A LOT 6-3, then hardly none 3-1. And the tone pots dont really do much, get very bassy/mushy. The pickups could be hotter, bridge less bright, neck more bright.

Im also gonna eventually replace the bridge, tailpiece, and nut/tuners. The guitar looks stunning, feels and plays awesome. I just feel it could sound better.

What I'm going to recommend is to leave the electronics outside of the guitar while you try a few different pots. On Gibson guitars at least neither log nor linear seem ideal. I've heard RS guitar works has a special taper, might be worth checking out!

I'm about to swap out the wiring on my DOT. It's an '03, Indonesian made that I got for a very good price. The jack is totally dead and the pots are all pretty scratchy. I'm getting a complete wiring kit from Mojotone. Perhaps I could piece it together for a few bucks less but it's pretty convenient to get everything I need in one package and I have dealt with and trust the Mojo guys.

AJ's suggestion sounds pretty good. Getting the electrics mounted is a bit fiddly.

BigBen, here's my take on your situation. I prefer linear taper pots for the volume becasue the sweep is wider. I have read the 'audio taper fits the human hearing' thing for so long that it amazes me---enginnering graphs be damned....we hear what we hear...adn audio pots have a narrow range of usability. IF you do volume swells wiht the volume pot, then that narrow sweep works perfectly. IF you like a wide control of the guitar's output and how it affects the amp, then you want a linear control or a treble bypass circuit on an audio pot, ime. A quick listen to how a stock FEnder pot works will tell you whether you want a limited sweep of the audio pto or is you want a wider sweep of a bypassed audio pot or a linear pot on the volume control. AS jefrs notes, audio taper and the human ear really don't work well together unless you want to do volume swells. With audio taper, the pot's sweep is useful from about 7 to 10 on the dial. Below 7, the high end is lost and the signal has no 'presence'. This is why people put treble bypass caps on audio taper pots. The Bypass circuit maintains highs as the pot is turned down, and the sweep is useful from about 2 on the dial all the way through the rest of the sweep. Another trick is to use the Gibson '50's wiring that connects the tone pot lead at the 'out' lead on the volume pot instead of the 'in' lug of that pot. Thsi also changes the sweep of the volume pot. A linear pot naturally results in a wide sweep of the pot being useful. Gibson changed from the 500K audio to the 300K audio linear for the volume pot in the early '70's...and all of their regular production guitars since have used this arrangement.
With a treble bypass cap circuit, the values of the resitor and the cap are very particular to the pickup, ime. This means that unless the tech understands what that particular pickup does and how the TBC circuit will affect the sonics, one might have to do some experimentation with different valuesin order to get thigns 'correct' Imho, a linear pot will simplify things for you becuase with a semi-hollowbody Gibson, things don't get simple when it comes to pulling out and installing these electronics. YOu would like to do it one time only, right? (;^)
IF you use a 300K linear pot for the bridge volume, you will put a limit on the high end to some degree. IF you use a 500K linear pot for the neck p-up, you will add a bit of high end to brighten it up. Ime, Koren humbuckers are dull and muddy sounding to begin with, so I am at a loss to understand how your bridge is too bright for you....but ears are ears, right?
Use a .022mfd tone cap on the bridge and a .015mfd cap on the neck, and use audio pots for the tone controls.
I like the SD '59 over the Gibson p-ups, also. The Alnico II from SD has a higher resonant peak on the neck p-up. Lots to consider. IF it were my guitar or if I were doing your work, I would also use 4-wire pickups and push/pull pots so that I coud get single coil type soudns by switching to parallel humbucking when I wanted that type of sound. Imho, you might as well 'get all you can get' while the tech is doing the job, right? Why have 3 sounds when you can have 8 different sounds????

Wally, AWESOME reply. I will tun those ideas by my tech. I don't think the coil tapping is necessary 1) I got 2 killer s/c guitars, and 2) I need to tweak amp knobs between singles and buckers, but if it costs the same, why not right? I just doubt I'd use it that way.

I want full useable wide sweep vol and tone controls. Will probably go with 50s wiring since I do not want to lose highs when rolling the vol down.

Probably going with Tonerider Rocksongs. Came to the conclusion that this is a $500 guitar, and even after putting 200 in it, its still gonna be a 500 guitar. I said its a keeper, but then again, ive said that before;)

BigBen, this is just my take on switching pickup wiring vis-a-vis the amp settings. I use switching in guitars to achieve different sounds, so I am not concerned with the amp settings. A good guitar with good pickups and with wiring/switching options that are well-thought out will result in a situation---ime--whereby the amp will do what it is supposed to do no matter what selections are chosen on the guitar. IN other words, I have built guitars and installed 'complex' wiring arrangements in many guitars, and I have never had to adjust an amp when going from one setting to another on the guitar.
Granted, there are certain sounds that won't work with certain amps. Ex: I have a 'strat' with 16 humbucking sounds. IF I am running through a BF/SF FEnder REverb amp, the Gibson, Fender and Gretsch sounds all work perfectly. However, hidden in those options are some 'gutbucket' sounds...thin, nasally things....that don't work with those amps.
IF I am in a Tweed-type of amp or a Gibson from the '50's-early '60's, then those gutbucket soudns work. Why? BEcause the compression of those amps allow the 'big' sonics to be used without getting too loud, and the 'gutbucket' sounds therefore have room to bloom underneath that 'cap' that the compression yields. I suppose that if I used a compression unit for the Fender REverb amp, then I could get something out of those amps across the range of all of the options that that guitar yields.
This all started when I bought an ES-345 in 1967. That guitar has the same type of wide-ranging tonalities......I have been at this 'versatility' thing for a while, eh?

Good luck with the amp. And....the thing about buying GOOD pickups is that if you want to sell the guitar, you can put the originals back in, right? The originals might be as good as those Toneriders anyway. The old saying..."you get what you pay for.'' is still valid.
The entire harness can be pulled and everything kept intact for later re-installation......so you don't have to sell a $500 guitar with $300 worth of pickups plus a fair sum for the work to install them for $500 at a later date, right?

It seems like I have to adjust the amp with the 335 because of two things: 1) it's higher output so I turn the volume down a tad to be on the clean/OD borderline, and 2) its way bass-y on the neck pickup at s/c settings. The amp is a Dr.Z Z28 210 combo, three knobs, pretty simple, but miniscule knob changes make BIG differences in this amp.

SO you wouldn't consider the Toneriders? I've heard nothing but good reviews on them, but you seem to have your finger on the pulse of tone better than I do:) I KNOW I can't afford $200 pickups right now, and those seem to be the best gold covered set I can get for @$100 other than maybe used Gibsons off ebay. What would you recommend for @$100?

I woudl put that amount of money into used Gibson '57 Classics or Burstbuckers or SD's if they were available rather than new inexpensive p-ups. Just my experience.
I understand the differences between your 335 clone and true single coils. MY references to options and amp settings were in reference to one guitar with multiple options. Tehre are also ways to adjsut those pickups that you have in that 335-clone so that those differences ...both between thepickups on your guitar and between the various guitars you have.....are minimized and sonics are maximized. I rarely see pickup set-ups that are 'optimal'.

I use linear volume pots because I find them easier and more intuitive to control. Both types drop the level but the log type shuts down the output very swiftly.

If I am playing and need to adjust my level in the mix a little bit, then I find it easier with a linear. Unfortunately Fender fit log ones by CTS as stock. CTS do make linear pots at 250k, 300k and 500k, as well as the log ones, but only Alpha seem to make things like blend pots.

I try to set up the amp to stage level with the linear vol pot at 50%. That gives me more if I need it, or less, without a halt in playing and fiddling with the amp.

Tone pots however are always log/audio type. A 250k will suit most every guitar. They are used as a variable resistor, and nothing much happens until they drop to <120k, which is near the top on a log pot.

It's not so much about human hearing as making the controls usable to the player.

I woudl put that amount of money into used Gibson '57 Classics or Burstbuckers or SD's if they were available rather than new inexpensive p-ups. Just my experience.
I understand the differences between your 335 clone and true single coils. MY references to options and amp settings were in reference to one guitar with multiple options. Tehre are also ways to adjsut those pickups that you have in that 335-clone so that those differences ...both between thepickups on your guitar and between the various guitars you have.....are minimized and sonics are maximized. I rarely see pickup set-ups that are 'optimal'.

Ime the Tonerider pickups are somewhat better made than Classic57s, nevermind the price, they seem to have better quality control, and they use "traditional" materials in their construction. And I doubt they will be cheap for long, we have already seen a 30% hike in their price.

Re the amp, if you have optimised the humbuckers for the best sound (Imo the way to go), then you will always need to adjust any amp when you switch guitar for single-coils. More bass and a thicker sound from humbuckers is normal. A "vintage wind" of about 8k will be brighter and lighter than a "modern" hot wind of >12k. And a hot wind will cause a 335 semi to howl. Some amps have a high and low input, the low is intended for humbuckers to get a clean sound, which one you use is up to you.

I've had several 335s over the years and the best sounding one so far is my block inlay 60s RI. It has Burstbuckers in it. For fun I've swapped in Seth Lovers, Jazz and '59s (all SD). Gibson 57s, and DiMarzio PAFs. They all sounded good - but the BBs sounded best. Good luck with your project - I think they are about the most versatile guitar around - too bad they are such a bear to work on... :-)

I always advise my customers to replace the electronics only if something's not working or if you have a specific reason that you want to change them. The idea that it must be junk because it's an import was probably valid 15 years ago. Unless you bought an absolutely crappy guitar, the pots, switch, and jack are probably just fine.

As for the pickups, everyone's ear is different. My go-to is the Duncan '59, which I like more than the Gibson '57. I think it has a more even response throughout the tonal range (the '57 always gives me a weird upper mid honk). There are tons of Gibson semi-hollow guitars that come with '57s stock; getcherself down to the guitar store and try one out. If you love them in that guitar, chances are good that you'll love them in yours.

+1

Duncan '59s are what Gibson could have made if all they did was pickups and their reputation depended on it. The Duncan '59 is probably one of the best out there, dollar for dollar.

I just finished up my Epi LP standard several months ago. I gutted it. It now has SD 59's,Sh-1 Sh-2 pups,I replaced the pots with Bournes audio taper 500's. The volume is touchy barely turn the knob its there throughout the sweep. I purchased the wiring kit from Browns Custom Shop, it was a complete kit $70, all the wire you need pots switch craft jack and switch. The bridge is Tone Pro locking bridge,however my tech told me a Gotoh bridge is just as good,stop bar is Tone Pro too. If the guitar is an import,the Grover Deluxe keystone tuners are a drop in, just had to drill new holes on the back of the headstock. To my ears its a new guitar to me. Good Luck!

The OP is located in the U.S., and requesting specific (pots) part numbers from an online, or other seller.

Anyone?

I have a 335 Dot reissue I replaced the pickups with a Duncan 59 bridge and Duncan Jazz neck. Its just about perfect.

That's what I'd do.

Thanks to all. I have spoke with a local tech I trust who's gonna do the work for $100-125, and has the components. I just gotta supply the pickups. Still up in the air about which(see thread in Just Pickups) but am thinking SD Jazz neck, either a 59, Alnico II pro or Pearly Gates bridge.

Still, re the pots. Want the most usable, even range from 10-1. Generally prefer treble/bright over bass/thick. I dont want to lose treble via the vol knobs, but want to be able to roll it off via the tone knobs.

I like the 57s, but I never heard a Lollar
I did not like.
Rio Grande makes some good stuff.
I also like a Duncan Jazz for the neck
and TV Jones Supertron (English mount) for the bridge position.

Is this a haiku? :razz:

I like the 57s, but I never heard a Lollar
I did not like.
Rio Grande makes some good stuff.
I also like a Duncan Jazz for the neck
and TV Jones Supertron (English mount) for the bridge position.

Thanks to all. I have spoke with a local tech I trust who's gonna do the work for $100-125, and has the components. I just gotta supply the pickups. Still up in the air about which(see thread in Just Pickups) but am thinking SD Jazz neck, either a 59, Alnico II pro or Pearly Gates bridge.

Still, re the pots. Want the most usable, even range from 10-1. Generally prefer treble/bright over bass/thick. I dont want to lose treble via the vol knobs, but want to be able to roll it off via the tone knobs.

Gibson have fitted
500k log +22nF tone controls
500k log vol pots
300k linear vol pots
500k linear vol pots

Is this a haiku? :razz:

Too many syllables. But in context to OP's requests, here's my take for what I think he may be looking for:

P A F just fine
Fif-ty se-ven cla-ssic loud
E M Gs hurts ears

If he wants that compressed midrange honk and growl, then:

Cla-ssic is O K
E M G is some-what loud
Volume knob is best


And if he wants to be on afterburner all the time and be so compressed and spiking every EQ level via Metallica attracting noise ordinance ticket, then:

E M G is king
pa-ssive pick-ups good for trash
buy ear pro-tec-tion

EMg's are good for pushing signal through a large number of pedals. Other than that, I have never heard any that I wanted to listen to. IF one wants tonal subtleties and nuance, go for some version of a PAF, imho.

BigBen, ime, you want 500K linear pots for the volumes and 500K audio tapers for the tones. Put a .015mfd tone cap on the neck and stick with the .022mfd cap for the bridge. Pickups??? YOu have a lot of suggestons already.

I like toneriders
Used seymour duncans good too
You should just get both

I like toneriders
Used seymour duncans good too
You should just get both

HAIKU brother!

So, I got it worked on, just got it back last night, played for 15 min and plan on playing it a couple hours tomorrow. I got a SD Pearly Gates bridge and a Tonerider Rocksong neck(used, $80, score!), New CTS pots x 4, switchcraft switch, New Jack, had my tech do coil tapping via push pull vol pots, and do a good set up. $185 parts and labor, so I'm $265 in with upgrades to a @$500 guitar.

IT SOUNDS AWESOME!!! The Pearly is killer. Not too bright, not too hot, perfect. The Tonerider matches it perfectly volume wise, it fat as hell, articulate, cleans up well(as does the SD) with the vol knob. The pot taper is perfect, wide and even from 10-1 on all four pots. I even like the coil tapping, which I rarely do, especially full neck/half bridge.

Happy camper!

I dunno. Some 335s are superb, some are crap. Changing pickups, et al, doesn't make a big difference IF the guitar doesn't sound good. I bought a 1990 Gibson 335 and it is superb, put in a higher gain pickup (which I like).. On the other hand, I sold my "copy" coz nothing made it sound good.

But its great to hear that you now have the sound you wanted.

My 335 came with the 57s in it to me they were'nt even in the ball park...changed the pick ups to seth lovers and went to 500 k pots..the guitar is head and shoulders better..I think I could even improve on the seth lovers but for how much i play that guitar there o.k.