jerry g guitar templates

has anybody here come across any full size pdf templates of any of jerry garcias custom guitars?

I know Warmoth at one time made a body. Maybe they might have some info.

Which Jerry Guitar??? he played LP's and I believe a few ES's early on, and then had several custom made guitars including my favorite "the tiger"... Problem with a template would be that most of them (his later customs) had heavily carved tops so while you may get the body silhouette you'd better know what you're doing with a set of gouges or a rotary carving tool. I don't know your wood-working background, but I've been playing with bandsaws and shapers and carving since I was old enough to hold the tools/wood and I still find making carved tops very dificult. For me it goes something like this: Start the carving/shaping, get one part done perfectly then start to move to another part and eventually I have made toothpicks out of a perfectly good body blank. I'm getting the hang of it but it's taken a LOT of sawdust and more blood and flesh then a guitar player can afford to loose out of ones hands so... be carefull :wink:

Then you can get into the absolutely bizare (to me) electronics that he used. I'm a wood guy and electronics are not my thing, but I've had people tell me that he was vastly ahead of the curve in terms of in guitar mounted effects and stereo control etc.

Cheers

Dave

probably tiger or rosebud. i have one off scale drawing of rosebud i found. looks like i'll just have to bring it to scale freehand.

ya, the carving and electronics will be an experience. ill probably let myself get creative with all that. not looking to do an exact replica.

thanks for chiming in guys, please continue to hit me up with any ideas.

That's cool that you were able to find at least that PDF... you should be able to extrapolate and scale it for a full size. I know there are a LOT of simple fan-based web sites out there dedicated to Jerry's gear and the specs etc. Might want to hit some fo the owners of those domains up for some info. I found a few guys REALLY helpfull when I was looking into this odd Heath-Kit SS amp that a friend lent me. Searches kept indicating that The Grateful Dead were early users of these amps at one point and I cot some really intersting confirmation and history lessons from a few guys in the hardcore "Jerry Circles". I'm from Oregon and I was fortunate enough to have seen Jerry and the Dead many times here in Portland and Eugene...every time I hear Slip-Help-Franklins Tower off One From the Vault the hair on my arms stands up and I get a big grin on my face...

Keep us updated on how your doing on this cause I'm extremely interested to see what you come up with aye. Cool project idea to say the least. Subscribed!!!!

Cheers

Dave

One from the Vault brings back some colorful memories haha, I know what ya mean. Help/Slip/Frank is pretty tight and creamy!

I found some info on Rosebud http://www.wald-electronics.com/rosebud.html

Good reading on that site aye... that's one of the ones I was thinking of. Thanks for refreshing my memory and providing the link.

Cheers

Dave

No problem Dave!

Here's the approach I may take. I think I'll build it like a Strat. I did a very rough sketch of a Rosebud shape over a scale Strat body. Other ideas are in the crock-pot and it's gonna take a while but I'll make it happen haha.

If anyone has any ideas or cool links etc. I'd appreciate it, as would anyone interested in a post such as this.

-CJ

If you can hold off for a few days I’ll draw you one up in cad and send you a scaled
pdf file. I have already drawn the Wolf and started drawing up Phil’s Big Brown bass
but I can switch over to Rosebud for you. I wont be back in the office until Monday
so it will be a few days.

Here is the Wolf……..

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/telemudd/GD%2032194/Wolf1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/telemudd/GD%2032194/Wolf2.jpg

Here is a link to the thread on this drawing….

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/other-guitars-other-instruments/288300-jerry-garcias-wolf-guitar.html

It explains how I got the correct scale so it might help you out.

If you can hold off for a few days I’ll draw you one up in cad and send you a scaled
pdf file. I have already drawn the Wolf and started drawing up Phil’s Big Brown bass
but I can switch over to Rosebud for you. I wont be back in the office until Monday
so it will be a few days.


That would be GREAT man! Thank you very much. I'm in no major rush at all. I'm still planning how I want to pull it off. Your Wolf looks cool, I'm about to check out your link.

CJ

When you go to do the electronics inside the guitar, you will need to have a unity gain buffer..... this is used before the send for the Effects loop.... the effects loop is switched on the return side so the effects are always seeing the input and run more true and don't load up.... The master volume is after the return for the effects loop, but when the effects loop is turned off, it is a straight pass through from the pickups .....The switching is very much like a strat, but using a set of Super 2's in the middle and bridge... these both will have coil taps ..... The neck is an SDS-1..... Jerry used mostly Dimarzio pickups until he went to the Cripe guitars and then Duncans were used

to get Jerry's true sound, you use the middle pickup tapped more than anything..... the bridge gets added on mostly in tapped formation for leads and if he wanted a really hot lead sound, it went full bucker....

The hardware is a harmonica style bridge, originally made by a company in San Fran that is not in existence anymore.... the tailpiece was a one off...

Jerry played with VERY high action, so as you get things planned out, you may want to make changes according to your feel

the original Tiger was made with a set neck:the body and neck were made separately and when Doug went to place the neck they realized that it would mess up the beautiful layering effect.... You can do a neck thru as long as you plan things out well in advance.... the layers of wood will make this easier if done from the start

Now all of this wiring will get you close, but to really get the full sound you need to run to a fender head, blackface or silverface, for the PRE side only... the tremolo circuit is disconnected, but the tube is used as well as the tube for the pre.... the tone controls are included on this circuit.... the signal is then routed to the amp which was a Macintosh MC2300 with the protection circuitry removed.... this was then fed to 3 or 4 JBL K120's in an open backed cabinet made of 14 ply Baltic Maple....

You can get really silly and very engrained in the minutia, but unless you have the funding of a large touring band behind you it gets very costly very quick.... take your time and ask questions as you go along and you will do just fine

When you go to do the electronics inside the guitar, you will need to have a unity gain buffer..... this is used before the send for the Effects loop.... the effects loop is switched on the return side so the effects are always seeing the input and run more true and don't load up.... The master volume is after the return for the effects loop, but when the effects loop is turned off, it is a straight pass through from the pickups .....The switching is very much like a strat, but using a set of Super 2's in the middle and bridge... these both will have coil taps ..... The neck is an SDS-1..... Jerry used mostly Dimarzio pickups until he went to the Cripe guitars and then Duncans were used

to get Jerry's true sound, you use the middle pickup tapped more than anything..... the bridge gets added on mostly in tapped formation for leads and if he wanted a really hot lead sound, it went full bucker....

The hardware is a harmonica style bridge, originally made by a company in San Fran that is not in existence anymore.... the tailpiece was a one off...

Jerry played with VERY high action, so as you get things planned out, you may want to make changes according to your feel

the original Tiger was made with a set neck:the body and neck were made separately and when Doug went to place the neck they realized that it would mess up the beautiful layering effect.... You can do a neck thru as long as you plan things out well in advance.... the layers of wood will make this easier if done from the start

Now all of this wiring will get you close, but to really get the full sound you need to run to a fender head, blackface or silverface, for the PRE side only... the tremolo circuit is disconnected, but the tube is used as well as the tube for the pre.... the tone controls are included on this circuit.... the signal is then routed to the amp which was a Macintosh MC2300 with the protection circuitry removed.... this was then fed to 3 or 4 JBL K120's in an open backed cabinet made of 14 ply Baltic Maple....

You can get really silly and very engrained in the minutia, but unless you have the funding of a large touring band behind you it gets very costly very quick.... take your time and ask questions as you go along and you will do just fine

I loved Jerry Garcia. Being there at Dead shows were some of my best and fondest memories. I loved them best from 1976-1979.
Chip? Paisley brain cells?

Hey Mike, sorry I didn't respond sooner I've been super busy, Thanks for all the gold info! You could be a great guide for ideas on this. Honestly I don't know what I'm going to do for electronics but I know I won't be doing an exact replica. I wanna have fun with it, get creative, learn some inlay. I love Rosebud's shape.

I never got to see Jerry live. By the time I was really into the Dead and making plans to hit some shows, he sadly passed away.

There is a lot of info out there, but it takes some searching to find.... I built a custom guitar 12 years ago and wound up building my own buffer circuit.... It is overkill, but introduces an op-amp buffer in multiple places so the signal will not degrade and stays clean
One of the best sites you can go to is http://www.wald-electronics.com/tiger.html
Since you seem to be leaning towards this model, you can check it out... at the bottom of the page, you can go to the other Garcia guitars

for a simple circuit you can use this CAE circuit

if you wanted to go with what Jerry had in his Wolf and Alligator, you would use this Alembic circuit

Here is Rosebud so far..................

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/telemudd/GD%2032194/Rosebudcad1.jpg

Here is Rosebud so far..................

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/telemudd/GD%2032194/Rosebudcad1.jpg

Sweeet. I'm gonna hunt for some funky wood this weekend. Fun shtuff

Here is the final Rosebud…..

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/telemudd/GD%2032194/Rosebudcad2.jpg

Now on to Tiger and we’ll see what the differences are.
I’ll send you pdf files after they are both finalized.

thats killer man, are you gonna be able to get a guestimation rendition of it full size? it'd be cool if you could explode it and get all the different sections full size for templates.
either way, this is an excellent guide

if you wanted to go with what Jerry had in his Wolf and Alligator, you would use this Alembic circuit

i havnt studied the "alembic world" yet.

i believe i will equip my version of rosebud with a piezo setup though.

Alembic is who Doug Irwin worked for when he started to build for Jerry.... He left shortly thereafter....

In the early San Fran scene, there weren't really any custom shops available... They grew out of a collaboration of artists who wanted "More".... They are responsible for the "Hippie Sandwich" style of building neck through guitars
In the Alligator guitar, which was given to Garcia by Graham Nash, it had the "first" unity gain buffer (this is the Alembic circuit shown above).... Over time, it has been changed to keep it more stable (the CB2 circuit shown above)

Piezos are an entirely different circuit altogether and usually have their own buffer circuit... Guitarists will set them up so the guitar can be played on magnetic pickups only, combo magnetic and piezo & piezo only .... the piezo circuit will require its own volume and tone control.... this can also be split so the piezo circuit has its own amp

another idea is to go with the piezos driving a GK3 or GK2 so you then have midi control with accurate tracking.... you also need the Roland midi unit as well as a separate amp for the midi sounds

thats killer man, are you gonna be able to get a guestimation rendition of it full size? it'd be cool if you could explode it and get all the different sections full size for templates.
either way, this is an excellent guide

I was going to post a full size .pdf file. (I think we can do that????)
You could then have it printed at any printer like Kinko’s. (Are they still around?)

Or I could cut it up into 8x11 pieces with match lines and you could tape them together.

Or I could just print it at work and mail it to you.

We’ll figure it out.

I was going to post a full size .pdf file. (I think we can do that????)
You could then have it printed at any printer like Kinko’s. (Are they still around?)

Or I could cut it up into 8x11 pieces with match lines and you could tape them together.

Or I could just print it at work and mail it to you.

We’ll figure it out.

Kinkos is in a hot relationship with fed ex, but they're still around here. Whatever you end up doing, its much appreciated!

Alembic is who Doug Irwin worked for when he started to build for Jerry.... He left shortly thereafter....

In the early San Fran scene, there weren't really any custom shops available... They grew out of a collaboration of artists who wanted "More".... They are responsible for the "Hippie Sandwich" style of building neck through guitars
In the Alligator guitar, which was given to Garcia by Graham Nash, it had the "first" unity gain buffer (this is the Alembic circuit shown above).... Over time, it has been changed to keep it more stable (the CB2 circuit shown above)

Piezos are an entirely different circuit altogether and usually have their own buffer circuit... Guitarists will set them up so the guitar can be played on magnetic pickups only, combo magnetic and piezo & piezo only .... the piezo circuit will require its own volume and tone control.... this can also be split so the piezo circuit has its own amp

another idea is to go with the piezos driving a GK3 or GK2 so you then have midi control with accurate tracking.... you also need the Roland midi unit as well as a separate amp for the midi sounds

Interesting, recommend any good books on the matter?

The is a lot, altho scattered about, of information on the web about this.... books: I really don't know of any

Going with a piezo setup is expensive, but if you are using it for your living it is a good way to go... If it sounds "interesting" probably not the way to approach it, unless you are financially well off

all i can say i that when i built my guitar, i had lots of ideas as to what i wanted.... In hindsight, they are mostly overkill and way too convoluted.... I am suggesting that you take your time, and really plan out what you want this instrument to do.... You can go as hog wild as you want, but how will you use it? DO NOT take this as me discouraging you from building this instrument, but a wise old uncle sayin' "Whatcha doin there kid?" before it turns into a "Hey, watch this!":wink:

LightninMike,

Do you have any photos of your guitar and rig.

Thanks,
chip

Here is a simple straight on shot of the front and back
3 Pickups; SDS1 in neck / Super2's in Middle and Bridge
Mini on/off switch for each pickup so it is in the chain or completely removed
mini switch for coil taps - humbucker or single coil
Two volume knobs - one for straight guitar, one for effect return volume (so you can blend in the effect level
Two tone knobs - treble and bass
the circuit on board has a buffer directly after the select switches
then the tone control
then the eq amp
then it splits: to the straight guitar volume and then to a summing amp before the mono out
the effects send with a buffer before it goes out of the guitar (tip)and return (ring) back in to the effect volume and then to the summing amp before the mono out

there are two batteries under the cover with an on/off switch.... the preamp circuit hides under the "bass" side of the body

The rig has not been built as i know what i want and won't compromise.... I have been doing work on guitars for over 20 years, as well as doing live sound (FOH & MON) for about the same...

I came to build this guitar after i heard a Cripe guitar through my buddy Rich's rig... He even turned around a few times and looked like "Holy Crap! That was ME!" At set break i sat down and figured out what the difference was: one had a pre, the other did not.

Sooo, I bought a book on electronics and started designing my own.
I got together with Pat at Resurrection Guitars in Jensen Beach. He had a great friendship with Steve . He wound up taking over Steve's business when he died in a fireworks explosion over in Pasco County. It was there that I held the "Eagle" which was supposed to be Jerry's next guitar when he passed away. Pat and I designed the neck as i had no place to build it and then took this up to Ohio where i built the body with my father in his wood shop. Pat did the final finish on the guitar.

The guitar winds up being a paintbrush for the player to paint with. The first to play her was Jim Hamilton ( well known for his guitar that commissioned by Billy Gibbons for Stevie Ray Vaughn). Plugged straight into a Clapton Clean Soldano head and then right out to a 4 x 12" cabinet. After about a 1/2 hour and multiple sounds ranging from Fender to Gibson to Rickenbacker with Bell Rings and acoustic overtones, he handed the guitar to me and asked me how many had I built: "Just this one." Then he asked me to play. My reply was simple: I don't play." "How is it a guy who doesn't play can get a guitar to feel this good with so many different sounds. And it's all right at my hands." I told him I listen differently than others do and my desire to build this was twofold: 1) to create a single instrument for a guitar player to have all night with the changes be right at the players hands 2) to see if I could do it

Here is a few more shots
with the neck access, you can reach beyond the 24th fret without pronating your arm (always made me a little crazy watching guitar players having to do this)

specs:
25" scale
24 fret neck
about 10#
Schaller Bridge and Tuners
neck is maple and mahogany, with some of Cripes "Garcia" rosewood on the headstock
body is Cocobolo on the front, Red Oak in the middle and Kingwood on the back
The back and middle are doweled into each other and the neck, Titebond 1
the Cocobolo was bookmatched and glued onto the body with Titebond 1 after wiping it down over the period of a few days to remove the oils that are inherent
The back covers were made out of offcuts from the body
The body was cut until it felt right and shaped/rounded over by hand with rasps and heavy grit sandpaper...Final sanding was done with 1000 grit before the poly clear coat went on

Awesome, thanks for posting these! And thanks Chip for bringing that up. That thing is a work of art, great job. I wish I could play it! Did you build any guitars prior to this one? Not that it matters but I'm blown away, my first guitar looks like David Lee Roth crapped it out.

Can we see the insides? maybe an audio demo???

You've given me a bunch to chew on sir, thanks.

I think we should call it the "Beetle".

Thank you for thinking outside the box.

That thing is incredible!

!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hadn't been in this forum for a week or so and this thread TOOK OFF!!!! Great drawings guys and awesome help with the electronics. Keep it coming, this is great!!!

Lightningmike: as a fellow "sawdust creator" let me just say HATS OFF TO YOU MATE!!!! That is unbelievably gorgeous. I've always loved the layered/laminated effect of Jerry's guitars and you sure nailed it. I too am blown away that a non-player could build a guitar that's that good of a player... sorry for the tongue twister, but it's flat out amazing.

Cheers

Dave

There is a guitar luthier here in Medina, Ohio buy the name of Jimy Nagy
who builds all original designs. I would love to have him build me this one
with all of those electronics but I think it would be overkill for the four cords
that I can play.

Can you see that familiar shape?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/telemudd/Vibes.jpg

Maybe it would be better if I flip it over….

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/telemudd/Vibes2.jpg

Thanks guys..... She is the first guitar I completely built - with exception of the neck
I learned a lot from building her... And from the 3 guys who have had her each for about 8 months.... The control system as much as it is unique and places a lot of sound right at the players' hands is way overblown.... It's too much and is a learning curve in itself.... The bass control is neat for about 3 sounds, but other than that its **** on a bull... the mini switches are too crowded to the knobs and take a deliberate movement to change them... If I were to add on the Midi controller, that is another set of switches and one more knob - way too busy

The shape came out of my love of Bluegrass/Newgrass and a little joke built in: The horns were deliberately over extended cuz Rock n' Roll is the Devils Music! The Hawthornes are a nod to mandolins and traditional American acoustic music

BTW Chip: I'm originally from Perrysburg, Ohio... That's where my Dad and I built the body and I did the majority of the shaping

good stuff guys! i'm a giant fan of these types of guitars! have always wanted one but any i've ever seen had largo price tags!

my buddy has a honkin hunk of ash thats been down and drying out for a couple years. gonna cut it into usable body wood using some of these approaches



diy for the love

cut it 1/2" to 1" over size and let it dry further.... it takes about 1" per year to dry out.... set it in an area with a lot of air movement and sticks underneath so it gets complete airflow all around

Tiger.........

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/telemudd/GD%2032194/Tiger.jpg

Here is a comparison for you.
If they shared the same bridge to neck location this is the way they would layout.

Tiger in white
Rosebud in yellow

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/telemudd/GD%2032194/Tiger-Rose.jpg

I know this is not the correct place in the forum for this, but those who are following the thread will appreciate this.... Some guys I have known for a long time, and this is shot from right off my soundboard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7ECxT-I9Jk

So do i get it?

I enjoyed the video very much. The boys put a lot of time and effort into that set.

Here is a comparison for you.
If they shared the same bridge to neck location this is the way they would layout.

Tiger in white
Rosebud in yellow

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/telemudd/GD%2032194/Tiger-Rose.jpg

That's cool man, I think I'm aimed at Tiger.

I know this is not the correct place in the forum for this, but those who are following the thread will appreciate this.... Some guys I have known for a long time, and this is shot from right off my soundboard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7ECxT-I9Jk

So do i get it?

Hell ya man, throw this gold up.

Here's the set closer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OdgAiSL8xw

a little dropout near the end from wind noise and auto leveling on the recorder

otherwise, not too bad