Progression: Which chord is the root?

I put together a good sounding chord progression yesterday, which is:

Dm, Am, C

Would this be considered a i, v, VII progression? I'm assuming the first chord is the root, but I know that's not always true. How do I know which chord is the root?

Thanks,
Casey

Well, your Rhythm and Phrasing will be a big factor here.

Which Chord sounds like the "Aaaahhhh"? The "Finish" that sounds right to end on? That would most likely be the Tonic.

Dm is probably the 1. But, Timing can drastically affect this, as I said.

Do you play it more like this:

Dm Am C C

Playing the C for twice as long as either the Dm or the Am?

That might help to build the "anticipation" leading you back to the Dm as "Home".

That type of thing......

is there any more chords to look at and try and answer the question of the root.

Root refers to the "name tone" of a chord. Songs don't really have roots, each chord in the song has a root. What you are looking for is the "tonic" of the progression. I think it's C the way I play your progression, but your way might make me think otherwise.

I'm rotating through the chords and am not playing any twice. The Dm sounds like the root to me as its the "base" of the progression. But I'm not playing any other chords with it besides those three.

Sounds kinda weak to me. If it were Dm, there is no leading tones (C#) in that progression to pull you to D minor.

So, they all last for the same amount of time? None rings longer than the others?

check this page, it is useful

http://www.musicmarks.com/minorkeychords.html

Looks to me like it's in C. A 2m(Dm), 6m(Am), 1(C) progression or a stretch could be to call the Dm and F6(D) to make it a 4, 6, 1 progression, could even be in F which would make it a 6m, 3m, 5. As said already it will depend on the melody played/sung over it what it winds up to be.

Dude, each chord has a root. The progression has a tonal center, or tonic. Post a video of you playing it so we can hear how you intend it. Then people can chime in on what they think the tonic is.

Ok guys, I'll try to post a video of me playing it later today.

I'll say 'C' just to tune in on the thread. ...or, I'll say that the OP is missing a chord. Add a G after the C, follow that G with another Am, and I'll say Am. I don't care for just those 3 chords---Dm, Am, C--- in that order with nothing else to 'support' the movement. With just those 3 chords, I would prefer to go from Dm, to C and then end up on Am....mainly because the 'roots'..those low notes....lead us from Dm through the C to the Am.
When I go Dm to Am to C, the whole thing just hangs in the middle of the air and seems to want for some further movement...there is no final resolution to my ear.
Eagerly awaiting hearing what the OP is doing, though.

Is there a melody to go with these chords?

I would play in F and find a melody that I liked before heading into the C or A minor world.

E Locrian

Why do you want to know? Is it because you are trying to figure out how to solo over it? You have a lot of options. So D pentatonic (or minor), A pent (or minor), F major, C major would be rock/pop standard sounding. Depends on the mood you are going for. Record them all and see what you like.

The safest way to find the tonic in this case would be to notice what chord you naturally finish with. I know you said that you are rotating, but you must finish at some point, right? That final chord would be the one.

The safest way to find the tonic in this case would be to notice what chord you naturally finish with. I know you said that you are rotating, but you must finish at some point, right? That final chord would be the one.

Fadeout :eek:

Fadeout :eek:

Hahahahah!!

[Yep, that's the wittiest response I could come up with for that]

I still say the progression is so weak you could get away with any harmonic centre those chords suggest. The totality of the notes is A (no B) C D E F G, so take it from there if you wish.

I'm going to make a suggestion, which will seem overly technical to some people. When I see chord names, a lot of stuff goes on in my head, seemingly simultaneously. This is because I have been working with chords, scales, theory, and analysis for nearly 50 years. Here's how you can start. First, either flash on the note names if you know your rudiments. If not, write them out for each chord:

Dm = D F A
Am = A C E
C = C E G

Then figure out what major scales have these notes. If you are fast enough, all you need to do is first ascertain the sharp keys, then the flat keys. If you have those down cold, then you'll know that the sharp keys contain the notes F#, C#, G#,... These accumulate, so that one key has F# and the rest natural, the next key has F# and C# and the rest natural, the next key has the notes F#, C#, G# and the rest natural. Next, consider the flat keys, which have Bb, Eb, Ab,... These accumulate as well, so one key has a Bb, the next has Bb and Eb, the next has Bb, Eb, Ab, etc. What I do virtually instantly is take the notes from the chords and see if they have an F natural. If an F natural is present, no other sharps will be present, if we are looking for a major scale. Since the Dm has an F natural, then I know that know other sharps will be present. This means the passage will not be in the major keys of G, D, A,... Next, I do this again, but with flats. There is no B natural, so we don't know if the scale we are looking for which have a B or Bb in it. I go to the next flat, Eb. I see that the note E natural is present in the chords, which means that Ab, Db, etc. will not be present in the scale that I choose.

By elimination, we are left with C major and F major as possible keys. Not to brag, but I have been able to do this in an instant since my teens. But reading the step by step process outlined above, I know how ridiculous this must seem to people who do not have lightning fast knowledge of the fundamentals of chords and scales. If I didn't have the capability, I would probably take the notes of the chords and arrange them in ascending order of the musical alphabet, then compare them to the major scales.

Notice that I did not consider minor scales. If I did, then I would focus on sharps and flats that would be present when you have a minor third and raised 7th. (A raised 6th is also a possibility). For example: a minor scale can have F natural and G#, B natural and E flat, F natural and C#, etc.

I didn't bring up modes, but that is another route you could take. The distinction between a major scale and a mode is influenced by which chord is the tonic.

As others have said, rhythm, meter, and voicing are huge factors. If you had a melody, I would look at its sharps and flat the same way that I did with the chords, above.

For me, the system that I described is much faster than playing the chords and determining the scale by ear. That's because it takes at least, what, 3-4 seconds to play each chord once and listen to it. Whereas my method can show the possible scales before I could even lift my hands to play the first chord.

Yes, I know this seems technical and convoluted, but it is not when you know the rudiments cold, as well has going through the process of determining scales from the chords a gazillion times.

With the original chords, the thing that I would focus on is the note B. Is it natural or flat in the context that we are not hearing, such as the melody?

One last time, this process is instantaneous for a lot of musicians, especially those who improvise a lot. By instantaneous, I don't mean mentally sounding the words "C major, A minor," etc. Rather it is like walking into a room of family members. You know instantly who they all are, including their relationships to each other and you. But you don't need to mentally sound-out their names to know them. Same thing with chords and scales. You know the relationships instantly, which is the only thing of importance in theory. (Oops, there is a bold and challenging claim.)

I forget to mention that some chord combinations are so common that we just know the key from looking at them. For me, this entails knowing the function, such as tonic, dominant, IV, V, etc. If the chords are arranged in a way that is not so common, then I probably combine this method with others. In reality, I probably do a lot of things.

The deeper question of deciding between two possible scales involves other criteria that I did not mention, but others alluded to in their posts above. My process is more of a first pass.

My process is more of a first pass.

Heheh! NO! Having a guess based on a dice throw is a first pass!

Very good post Larry F. I will just add a recommendation for a search for the term 'circle of fifths'. That's the best way to know how many sharps and flats are in each key. Useful stuff to keep in the back of one's head.

The more I learn about music, the more important the circle of 5ths seems. I was extremely lucky when I started out. My parents bought me a Stella guitar and a Nick Manoloff chord wheel. It was a cardboard circular contraption that that had cutout windows showing the I IV V chords, relative minor, key signatures. When you turned the cardboard wheel underneath, it showed the chords in that key. The wheel rotated in a circle of fifths, I believe. I am so lucky to have had this info presented to me from the get-go. Here is a photo of one:

But you don't need to mentally sound-out their names to know them. Same thing with chords and scales. You know the relationships instantly, which is the only thing of importance in theory. (Oops, there is a bold and challenging claim.)

+1

I don't mean mentally sounding the words "C major, A minor," etc. Rather it is like walking into a room of family members. You know instantly who they all are, including their relationships to each other and you. But you don't need to mentally sound-out their names to know them. Same thing with chords and scales. You know the relationships instantly, which is the only thing of importance in theory. (Oops, there is a bold and challenging claim.)

Not bold or challenging at all. It's how it is.
'Theory' or what is really what we call music fundamentals and functional harmony is only going to really work for you when you know it. Having to think about while you're playing is useless - the music's already passed you by. That's the basis of the quotes from famous musicians reference "learn it then forget it". They don't mean forget it as in you don't know it anymore. They mean forget the process. Theory has to be part of you playing music like walking is part of you getting to the other side of the living room. And you don't really have to know a lot either.

Does any one have a link to some sort of printout for a make your own wheel like Larry F posted....?

I think I am almost to the point where I could pay enough attention and understand the context a bit better. Having one lying around to look at and refer to whenever, would help a lot I think.....

Maybe print these, and make your own?

http://inbetweennoise.blogspot.com/2007/01/minor-chords-and-accidentals.html


Or:

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=chord+wheel&start=76&hl=en&sa=X&qscrl=1&nord=1&rlz=1T4ADFA_enUS421US421&biw=1219&bih=648&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsa&tbnid=zk0Pt2aZ-v5cnM:&imgrefurl=http://www.manitdani.com/downloads&docid=UvEHsBMb8q-19M&imgurl=http://www.manitdani.com/sites/default/files/key%252520converter.jpg&w=1200&h=800&ei=NSTxT4u0PI6K8QS3nayoDQ&zoom=1

I have always made flashcards for things like this. I make it a game and enjoyable. When I was teaching fundamentals and music theory 15 years ago, I wanted so badly to test the students with timed tests. But the administration was developing a policy that prohibited timed tests, believing, certainly rightly, I'll admit, that some students just do not do well under pressure of that kind. It is too bad, as I believe it can be so effective, although maybe not for everybody, which is why the policy was developed. It happens.

"under pressure"

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/150/331626592_ab8428566d.jpg

Given everything Larry F put out there in his brilliant post, I would humbly suggest embracing the kinda-goes-nowhere qualities of this progression by suspending the D-chord:

Dsus2 (DAE)
Amin (ACE)
C (CEG)

Now you have a progression with both ambiguous F-notes and B-notes, adding D-mixolydian to the already available D-dorian and D-aeolian options.

You could enter this progression from C, or G, or F, and exit with any of those options (and more) if you are careful with phrasing and note choices.

Just saying I'd give that F-note some wiggle room if I were playing rhythm guitar.

The relative minor of F, Dm sounds best to me the way I played the chords. Same notes as F of course but they flow easier in Dm.