TransparentOverDriveDeluxe - a tweaked Peppermill is available at last!

Hey all -

You've heard me talk ad nauseum about the runoffgroove.com Peppermill.

Well, it's not a complete pedal, but at least now you can get a circuitboard and have someone build it for you.

http://www.guitarpcb.com/apps/webstore/products/show/3216471

PLUSES:

Many folks will probably not care for how mild the Peppermill can be, or that it has that "cranked SF/BF" sort of quality to it, just w/o any woofy bass. So, the folks at GuitarPCB.com were cool to offer the following with the "T.O.D.D.":

- tone control that either rolls off treble, or actually increases it

- clipping diode selector switch that lets you choose between LED clipping or more traditional diode clipping

...While I don't personally care for switches, lots of people should LOVE that toggle, as it basically gives you access to the exact same diode clipping scheme that is used in pedals like the Les Lius/COT/Speaker Cranker. The LED vs. silicon diode choice is also not too different from something like in the Suhr Riot.

Bottom line: this makes for a COOL pedal that uses a mosFET boosting a jFET. The LL/SC/etc. all use an old fashioned bipolar transistor that IMO doesn't "give up the goods" as well as mos's and j's can. This is why you see mosFET's in stuff like the Box of Rock, and jFET's in the vast majority of amp sim pedals that are so popular right now.

...But the T.O.D.D. is cool in that it allows "you to sound like you," and it blends some "new" principles with the old ones. Pretty daggone cool - you can have your cake, and eat it too!

BTW - no affil with GuitarPCB whatsoever. I'm just obviously excited that someone is offering something that is derived from the RoG Peppermill!

There's a sound clip of this thing, too.

http://soundcloud.com/guitarpcb/todd

Unfortunately, it is with the LED clipping diodes activated. IMO, too much distortion and grind for the most part.

But, that might be a plus for some of you. It is good for demonstrating sustain/feedback/etc. with good cleanup, but doesn't really give the lower gain/smooth vibe, IMO - sounds more tweed-y/grind-ish.

@ 1:23, the gain is backed down to 10:00, which is kinda cool. And 1:54 brings in the controlled feedback part.

But I imagine many folks will like what they hear from 2:14 forward, as it's got the volume on the guitar tunred down, with some Hendrix-y sort of stuff happening as its turned back up. That LP gets bright enough to sound kind of like Buchanan or Campilongo for a few moments...

But I thought I'd post it, FWIW.

Thanks 11. (may I call you 11?)

Haven't built a pedal in months. I may just have to throw one of these together.

(may I call you 11?)

It's all good. I get called all kinds of things, anyway. :razz:

Like the saying goes, just don't call me late for supper...

Just ordered my board! Didnt know the Les Lius was based on the peppermill?

I looked over the layout, is there not a pad for a stomp switch? I see a spot for a SPDT switch but isn't that normally a toggle? I see the in/out's look like they're setup to have the jacks wired straight to the board.

I'm new to the whole pedal building thing and I'm confused.

I looked over the layout, is there not a pad for a stomp switch? I see a spot for a SPDT switch but isn't that normally a toggle? I see the in/out's look like they're setup to have the jacks wired straight to the board.

I'm new to the whole pedal building thing and I'm confused.

All you need from the pcb is a B+ power pad that connects to your DC jack + and IN / OUT and GROUND wire pads.Then you use a wire from your input and output jack + terminal [tip]. The SPDT switch you see on the T.O.D.D pcb engages two additional clipping diodes,germanium 1N34's in this case.
I wire my switches up like this diagram,it grounds the input when bypassed to eliminate footswitch 'popping'.
I'm gonna build a 3-in-1 pedal that will look like this:
Mad Bean afterlife compressor > T.O.D.D Peppermill > Guitarpcb modified RAT
:cool:

Just ordered my board! Didnt know the Les Lius was based on the peppermill?

No - Les Lius and a zillion other "one transistor dirt boxes" are all primarily derived from the old Electra guitar built-in distortion model.

History of Electra guitars:

http://www.rivercityamps.com/electra/history.php

...That's why I refer to the "LL et al style" as being Old School. TTBOMK, they just weren't thinking about any advantages to using FET's for guitar OD/distortion back in the 70's or prior - it was just simple bipolar transistors - same thing as in the Fuzz Face, Big Muff, etc.

The Peppermill is somewhat unique in that it uses a mosFET to drive a jFET.

If you've used a SHO to drive something into distortion, you know the advantages of that. If you've tried a BOR or Distortron, you've experienced a mosFET only dirt pedal. Also, the Blackstone Mosfet OD is kind of similar, but it has an op amp driving 3 mosFET "inverter" stages (same inverter chip is in a Red Llama).

Then there are all the jFET only designs that are out right now, with many/most being primarily designed/marketed as amp sims.

...The "problem" with using only jFET's is that they don't have as much gain as a mosFET, so more stages are needed, or they have to be configured in "stacked pairs" like the Orman minibooster, which was used as a DIY starting point for the BSIABII.

But if you don't need a ton of distortion and just want a little bit of amp-like grit/dynamics/harmonics, a single mosFET into a single jFET is sufficient. Soft clipping from a tube amp only is never as "severe" as what you get from most of the amp sim pedals that are available, IMO.

I don't care for the clipping diodes and such that the TODD "adds back in" to the design, but I can understand the appeal. The effect of the diodes is very " traditionally familiar."

TTBOMK, the Peppermill is not based on anything. Many RoG projects are that way. I think their Matchless DC30 amp sim project also uses a mosFET to drive the subsequent jFET stages.

I think it sounds pretty cool

I read this forum frequently, I don't post very often.

I had an open order with GuitarPCB when I read this thread, and just because 11Gauge said that pedal is awesome I ordered the TODD PCB and will build it.

Looking forward to it, we'll see how it will sound.

just because 11Gauge said that pedal is awesome

I hope I don't end up giving anyone a bum steer!

Like I said, I really like the PM in its original form, which has very little distortion/clipping/etc. If you just want a touch of something, make sure to wire up the toggle on the TODD so that no diodes can be selected.

Lately, I've been using a stock PM with a little VHT Special Six head. On the clean BF-ish "channel," the PM makes the amp sound about 65% like the "boost" channel, which is mainly like an old tweed Princeton or something.

...On the boost channel with the PM engaged, it sounds really good for Old School rock.

Long story short - the PM is amazing IMO in that it mates up to so many different amps so well. The RoG clips have it either going into a SS amp or simply cab sim with D.I.

For folks who are just looking for that little bit of texture/grit/harmonics with the gain/drive turned down, it is really great IMO. Just sounds like a little something extra from the amp itself, is almost totally clean if you pick light, but the harmonics and grit happen as you pick/strum harder.

I love that it adds amp-like qualities w/o being any specific amp emulation. IOW, it just gives you the dynamic aspect that you want, while leaving the rest as a bit of a blank canvas, or "to be extracted while you are playing."

And it is amazing how simple the whole circuit is. It might be ultra complex compared to a SHO or Les Lius/COT/Speaker Cranker, but it's worth that tiny bit of extra complexity. IMO, the only difficult thing (that really isn't) is biasing the jFET with the trimpot.

I think it is the low gain of the original PM along with the biasing of the transistor that made RoG reluctant to have OLC offer the PM.

Sorry that I keep oohing and ahhing over this one, but I've found so much use in a stock PM over the past few years that I hope that other folks will get to experience it as well. The little RoG self-etch PM circuitboard is a PITA as it's about the size of a postage stamp, and the wires for the gain/drive control are right smack in the middle of the board.

Anyway, can't wait to hear the build reports, positive or negative!

I was already on the fence about ordering one before 11gauge's endorsement but it just put me over the top. Besides Barry is a top knotch guy who does great work so I've never regretted sending him a few of my hard earned dollars.

Anyone know of a source to get one already assembled? I don't even try to solder anymore since my neurapathy

Does the PCB come w/ a parts list?

Does the PCB come w/ a parts list?

It's on their site:
http://www.guitarpcb.com/PDF%20Files/TODD%20Build%20Docs.pdf

Besides Barry is a top knotch guy who does great work so I've never regretted sending him a few of my hard earned dollars.

I couldn't agreee with this statement more! In fact there are only two things keeping me from ordering this.

1 I have more dirt than money ATM :oops:
2 My hands shake far too much for pedal building :sad:

I look forward to hearing some build clips

Anyone know of a source to get one already assembled? I don't even try to solder anymore since my neurapathy

I'm interested, too, because I just don't have the TIME these days to make my own stuff. Way too much OT at the day job leaves me with no time, but a few extra bucks.

Anyone know of a source to get one already assembled? I don't even try to solder anymore since my neurapathy

My hands shake far too much for pedal building :sad:

I'm interested, too, because I just don't have the TIME these days to make my own stuff.

For those who hope to find someone to put one of these things together for you, send me a PM. I'll try to put you in touch with someone who can help you out. I can't promise anything (don't know what these folks might have going on at any given time), but like they say - it never hurts to ask!

So what are some similar pedals to this? BB v1, Morning Glory, OCD?

So what are some similar pedals to this? BB v1, Morning Glory, OCD?

None TTBOMK. Morning Glory and BB V1 look pretty similar, and all 3 of the pedals you listed are all op amp-based with clipping diodes.

While this TODD offering puts clipping diodes on a switch, the base Peppermill doesn't use them, and doesn't use op amps.

Op amps provide a large signal gain (as in true preamp gain - not distortion) before clipping, and typically stay fairly symmetrical when they do clip (no "good harmonic content" added in many situations).

The Peppermill uses two types of field effect transistors, or FET's. One is a mosFET, and one is a jFET. The MOS gives a good amplitude gain and will clip asymmetrically with even order harmonics, but it is better primarily as a boost stage. The J doesn't have quite the amplitude gain, so using more than one means that for true "dialed-in class A operation," every single jFET must be biased.

Lots of pedal tweakers actually sort their jFET's due to variations in gain and transconductance. So the more jFET's you have, the more sorting you need to do. The sad part is all of the jFET's that end up in the reject pile as a result of builders trying to make these things sound consistent.

So that said, the only pedal I can think of that might be sort of similar is the Subdecay Liquid Sunshine. It uses multiple jFET's only, with each one biased with a trimmer. Brian Marshall has gotten really good at sourcing consistent jFET's for that pedal, from what I hear.

...Lots of folks seem to end up bailing on the LS because of a lack of range for dirt and grind - looking more for a Swiss Army Knife drive box that will do just a touch of the good stuff up to goodness knows what, and a sort of need for a traditional tone control. The stock Peppermill is similar, but the TODD adds both clipping diodes and a tone control, so it should make it familiar and appealing.

TODD Runoffgrooven

I used to listen to his stuff in the 70's

Here is a demo of a Peppermill, not sure how similar this would be.


bBsThsTwgyE

Here is a demo of a Peppermill, not sure how similar this would be.


bBsThsTwgyE

That's it!

Thanks for finding that video - I'd never seen one before for the PM.

I like how at around 2:00 it's a pretty nice "generic cranked tweed" sort of sound.

They mention lowering a resistor value in the TODD project so that your minimum gain setting can have even less clipping than what that demo shows.

Guitarpcb just added a few tweaks that can be done to the TODD circuit to their webpage. I've built a couple of their pedals and have really liked the ones I've built so far. Love the demo for this one and I use the Stage 3 Boost a lot.

So I built the TODD this last weekend and everything that has been said in this thread is true, it is a very nice pedal, very musical.
I also agree with 11Gauge in that it wouldn't really need the diode switch and the tone control, although the switch is nice to have - if there wouldn't be a huge difference in volume between the positions. They mention that in the BOM (http://www.guitarpcb.com/PDF%20Files/TODD%20Build%20Docs.pdf)and I did that resistor swap to even this out, but it still is too much. So I won't use the switch much.....
If I ever get better at buiding pedals, as I am really new to this, I might build the original Peppermill on vero, without the switch and the tone control. We'll see. But thanks again for pointing me to this one.

I have one and love it, very transparent and low gain.