Direct vs. amp?? Help me decide!

So I have recently started playing some electric guitar at church (Squier CVC Tele):grin: and I am trying to decide what kind of rig I want to build up. We play all the typical modern worship type stuff as well as our own versions of songs.

Right now I am trying to decide between:

1. A direct to PA type setup Guitar->OD (not sure what one yet)->Tech21 Blonde or Liverpool (or maybe the JOYO versions to save cash)->Line 6 M9
->DI->FOH Board

2. A tube amp rig Guitar ->OD->Amp (Ibanez TSA15H is tops on list for now)-> Mod pedals in FX loop->Mic'd to FOH Board

We have amps off stage in a soundproofed room to alleviate some stage volume, although we really don't have a volume issue with our members.

I definitely like the idea of a real amp, but I also like the ease of the direct setup because I also play acoustic on some songs nearly every week.

I would love to hear some opinions from those of you that have run both ways. What you liked, what you didn't and what issues both setups present.

Thanks!
Greg

Since you guys run amp isolation already it seems like a no brainer to me but that doesn't mean I'm right.

I played through line 6 direct to house or through a speaker for years. I just don't like digital. Especially if your amps are isolated I would go tube.

I'm curious why playing acoustic would affect your rig choice?

Since you guys run amp isolation already it seems like a no brainer to me but that doesn't mean I'm right.

I played through line 6 direct to house or through a speaker for years. I just don't like digital. Especially if your amps are isolated I would go tube.

I'm curious why playing acoustic would affect your rig choice?

Agreed.

I'm curious why playing acoustic would affect your rig choice?

I'm just thinking about the amount of gear I would be running back and forth to church all the time.

I am using a borrowed POD 2.0 right now and don't really like it, but at the same time it is an easy transport/setup. Plus from what I've read and heard the Tech21/Joyo pedals are more "real" than the POD.

At the same time, I would live to have a real tube amp!!

I've played a Tech 21 Blonde direct in church and played a little Swart Space Tone there a month later. In terms of schlepping gear, there wasn't actually all that much difference as the Swart is so tiny. The amp sounded better, but it's a great amp. I honestly don't think there's a massive difference in overall terms. What about your playing outside church? Would it be better to have an amp for your own practice?

I've played a Tech 21 Blonde direct in church and played a little Swart Space Tone there a month later. In terms of schlepping gear, there wasn't actually all that much difference as the Swart is so tiny. The amp sounded better, but it's a great amp. I honestly don't think there's a massive difference in overall terms. What about your playing outside church? Would it be better to have an amp for your own practice?

I have a feeling that it wouldn't be too long before I would start leaving an amp at church if I went that route. So that basically leaves me without one at home anyway.

Do you think the Tech21 set up gets you 80% there sound wise?

Snowwizard, how do you like your Tweaker? That's the other amp (besides the Ibanez) that I have been considering.

I'm just thinking about the amount of gear I would be running back and forth to church all the time.
...

At the same time, I would live to have a real tube amp!!

As others have suggested - I believe having more than one amp is best. I leave one at church most of the time, it saves time and back ache, especially as I don't want to be lugging heavy gear around every Sunday before I lead worship. Sure there is a cost factor but it is money well spent IMHO.

I'm just thinking about the amount of gear I would be running back and forth to church all the time.

I am using a borrowed POD 2.0 right now and don't really like it, but at the same time it is an easy transport/setup. Plus from what I've read and heard the Tech21/Joyo pedals are more "real" than the POD.

At the same time, I would live to have a real tube amp!!

It's not uncommon for me to bring my acoustic, electric, pedalboard and amp plus a two guitar instrument stand. I do it because it's necessary for the best sound., and since we rent a school Sunday mornings leaving an amp isn't an option.

When we were still at our sending church before the church plant, I left my Fender Deville and kept my VoxAC4 at home (or visa versa) but even without an amp that's still a lot of gear.

What's your budget on an amp?

Also, speaking of direct vs amp... Some amps like the Egnater rebel 30 have an XLR direct out so on stage you wouldn't hear it but at a show at home you would

Budget wise I'm in the $500 range. Which is another factor that makes the direct setup appealing. I can get a Joyo American sound, a decent OD pedal and a used Line 6 M9 all for about the same as what an amp would cost (unless I found some spectacular deal on a used amp).

I played through a Line 6 POD HD300 for a while but never got use to it. I sold it and I am back to playing through my AC15C1. I used the money to buy a Shure SM57 and now mic my amp. I think in a big church with good sound people and lots of monitors, going direct would have worked. But for me it was a constant battle to try and hear myself. I couldn't handle the loss of control I had as far as hearing my sound. I can only get that using my amp, so I guess I am sticking with my guitar, amp, and mic. But every church / situation is different.

I can comment on the Tech21 Blonde, as I have one. If you've got a good monitoring system, you can actually dial in a decent sound with the Blonde. Thing is if the monitors are the 'hifi' type you may start to notice the Blonde's weaknesses as it tends to bare it all (so to speak :wink:). You need a reasonably 'warm' sounding monitor to make it work IMO.

CR,

something to think about is that this is not the final step. I ran a line 6 rig, then replaced it with an AC15, which was replaced by a Fender Deville and Vox AC4, which went to just the AC4 (had to buy a crib) and then my current Egnater Tweaker 15.

The point is that you start somewhere. At $500 you could do very well with a line6 or Boss ME setup or you could do a VoxAc4 with TS9 or OCD and a mod (reverb, delay, etc) and add to that over time.

Also, if you picked up a tube amp with reverb and a hot/clean you'd be doing ok right there (basically a Vox AC15 or Fender Deville on craigslist). I think a good amp is the most underrated thing around. basically if it was a choice between upgrading from a MIM tele to an american deluxe or going to a high end amp, i'd vote for the amp.

It's a marathon, not a sprint

I err on the side of practicallity.

Guitar> wireless> Digitech RP250> direct in.

Why? I can put everything in a small duffle bag that I need, sling a gig bag on like a back pack and carry a hard case. I have 2 guitars and everything I need (laptop in the bag just in case I need to tweek things or play the mp3's in rehersals).

I err on the side of practicallity.

Guitar> wireless> Digitech RP250> direct in.
.

What's practical about wireless? :)

CR,

something to think about is that this is not the final step. I ran a line 6 rig, then replaced it with an AC15, which was replaced by a Fender Deville and Vox AC4, which went to just the AC4 (had to buy a crib) and then my current Egnater Tweaker 15.

The point is that you start somewhere. At $500 you could do very well with a line6 or Boss ME setup or you could do a VoxAc4 with TS9 or OCD and a mod (reverb, delay, etc) and add to that over time.

Also, if you picked up a tube amp with reverb and a hot/clean you'd be doing ok right there (basically a Vox AC15 or Fender Deville on craigslist). I think a good amp is the most underrated thing around. basically if it was a choice between upgrading from a MIM tele to an american deluxe or going to a high end amp, i'd vote for the amp.

It's a marathon, not a sprint

This is good advice and in the end I will probably be happier if I go this route. Thanks Snowwizard!

I tried going direct for years, but to me there is nothing that beats an amp with a mic.
I haven't tried all the newer equipment, but I've been satisfied with my setup.

Im going to agree with tube amp, even a small 15 watt tube amp with clean and overdrive and eliminate some pedals, look around on craigslist or pawn shops for a good used one

I tried going direct for years, but to me there is nothing that beats an amp with a mic.
I haven't tried all the newer equipment, but I've been satisfied with my setup.

if you're in a Guitar center and they have a Egnater Rebel 30 check out the XLR out feature. I mic my amp but that is a tempting option.

if you're in a Guitar center and they have a Egnater Rebel 30 check out the XLR out feature. I mic my amp but that is a tempting option.

Yeah, you can do that with any amp by using an attenuator that has a "Load" setting. I wouldn't let that feature be a priority in an amp purchase.

get a morley splitter and do both... works very well for me.

I vote amp. It took me a few years to discover that a great amp can make the cheapest guitar sound pretty good. And a great valve amp can make a cheap guitar really sing. Far more than any modeller. I say this from playing a Squier tele and now an Aria strat through a Fender HRD - even my standby Marshall Valvestate is preferrable to digital, to my ears at least. It feels 'real'.

I vote amp. It took me a few years to discover that a great amp can make the cheapest guitar sound pretty good. And a great valve amp can make a cheap guitar really sing. Far more than any modeller. I say this from playing a Squier tele and now an Aria strat through a Fender HRD - even my standby Marshall Valvestate is preferrable to digital, to my ears at least. It feels 'real'.

Agreed. It was that realization that caused me to sell my grestch, ac4 and whatever pedals I wasn't using to upgrade amps.

I've never heard direct sound better the a well developed amp set up. Ever.... ever...

I vote amp. It took me a few years to discover that a great amp can make the cheapest guitar sound pretty good. And a great valve amp can make a cheap guitar really sing. Far more than any modeller. I say this from playing a Squier tele and now an Aria strat through a Fender HRD - even my standby Marshall Valvestate is preferrable to digital, to my ears at least. It feels 'real'.

I have a Blues Jr which I modded, and I have a Line 6 Spider. My problem is that right now I'm being asked to provide a variety of sounds which I was able to dial in on the Spider. None of them sound anywhere close as good as the BJr. But I do what I have to do...

I wish I had invested in expanding my set of pedals to cover everything I want, rather than the Spider.

I've used every setup imaginable, including a high end POD. I'm back to what I started with out of overwhelming preference, TUBE AMP! I building a pedal board, OD, compressor, reverb, volume pedal. Simple yes, and all I need. Also to eliminate being "too loud", I'm building a tall amp stand to point the thing at my 6'3" head, then mic-ing it thru the system. I'm also getting my own monitor for my guitar channel with it's own volume knob. Our system is somewhat crude and temporary at this stage, so I am surrounding myself with sound sources so I can hear myself amongst the stage noise without blasting "WAY TOO LOUD" above the band and running folks off the front rows toward the back HAHAHA! You won't have these problems with your setup. Get a tube amp! Something with as few built in effects and as clean as you can get. Fender tubes are immaculately clean. I recommend a single speaker, easier to effectively mic. 40 watts should be more than adequate. Put it in your amp room, then build your pedal board for your effects. I highly suggest a volume pedal, last in your series of effects. That way you can play rhythm with the pedal closed down some, then open it up slightly for leads. Also get a three way male-female-female adapter plug. Hook it into your last pedal, run one line off it into your amp, then plug your acoustic in the other plug. This will bypass your pedalboard for playing acoustic clean thru the amp. Or a male-male-female, hooked between your last FX pedal and volume pedal, and plug the acoustic into that. That way you can use the volume pedal with the acoustic as well. Just some suggestions, hope it helps. My main point is, TUBE AMP!

Get a tube amp! Something with as few built in effects and as clean as you can get. Fender tubes are immaculately clean. I recommend a single speaker, easier to effectively mic. 40 watts should be more than adequate.

I agree on getting a tube amp with a good clean sound as the start point but I wouldn't worry about built-in effects. You can always get pedals to do the job if it's an effect you need.

A 40 watt Fender is a loud amp - great if you need to be putting lots of volume out but if I was buying a new tube amp now for our church setup (mic'd up in a back room, in-ear monitors) I'd go lower, probably 15 or 20 to still get some air moving and be able to push the tubes a bit harder.

Well you have all swayed me completely in the tube amp direction! Now I just have to decide what one to go for.

Thanks for all the replies and advice!