Is Our Team Disintegrating?

A few months ago I asked our WL if anyone else has been asking him about the lack of preparation and enthusiasm in our 4 worship teams, or is it just me. Rehearsal tracks not given out with adequate lead time, using some songs as congregational worship tunes that are simply (imo) total esoteric duds, people not having listened to the songs at all when they come to rehearsal, people not practicing before Sunday, sound guys who have no sense at all of what a "musical" mix sounds like, acoustic guitars with 3 sonic stomp boosters on them, etc. A range of things that might each seem small if taken individually, but which add up to an overall amateur and uninspiring musical offering for the crowd. I would even say distracting. His reply was that no, it's just me, I'm the only one saying anything at all about any of this stuff.

Since then our teams have shuffled a bit, people traded places, etc. This last weekend the WL was out of town so we had a different team leader directing our music this Sunday and our rehearsal last Tuesday. When we all gathered at rehearsal, with a new singer in the group, the first thing this guy said was, "You don't all know me. I believe in just getting thru the songs as fast as possible so we can get out of here and get on with our real lives." He was not joking. No leadership, no guidance, no suggestions on who does which parts or what to play or how to play the arrangements, no ideas, no nothing. On top of that he himself had not heard all of the songs we were supposed to be rehearsing. There may be several younger "adults" in his age range who handle the task in that way, but where I come from this kind of attitude would quickly get me kicked out the door, gear in hand. And I don't just mean church teams! Any band I've ever been in would do the same if I showed up so unprepared.

So, clearly frustrated with how the music at the first service went, me and the rest of the rhythm section get to talking in a corner and I am surprised to hear them say that they each called the WL during his vacation out of state and directly voiced their concerns and complaints about how the worship was being handled this week. In fact, it turns out that several stories were shared about several different people who have called or emailed the WL over the last year or so to voice concerns and questions and complaints about how music and worship and teams are being managed. in other words, it is not just me after all. The WL basically lied to me when he said it was just me. There may be as many as 10 or more who have voiced concerns, and a few who have left the teams because their concerns were brushed off. Our team's drummer was so agitated at how this kid handled our team this week that he said he wanted to call in sick Sunday morning and not even come to church, but he hacked it out because he wanted to support the cohesive rhythm section we have going. I thought I was outspoken and a bit abrasive in the past, but these people were a lot more blunt and frustrated than anything I've ever expressed.

On top of that, a lady who works in the church office says this WL treats them all the same way, they have the same complaints that the musicians have. They are frequently ignored, brushed off, ideas dismissed, concerns get lip service and nothing else, etc....especially the women. And, like the music prep, everything he does is late or last minute so that the other staff have to rearrange their own schedules to accommodate his lack of concern.

I don't know what role the previous WL really played, but I know that when he was here, the church was busting at the seams and musicians were lining up around the blcok for a chance to play with worship teams. Then we added on a bigger sanctuary, and the church kept growing. Then the WL left, he hand picked this guy as his replacement. Within a year or so several key people who were long time members quit the teams and left the church completely, and I know a few of them left after having very heated "discussions" with our new WL. Now we are struggling to alleviate a shrinking church body, and only the hard core musicians remain, with a few gaping holes left on each team. There are a few more amateur players who have tried to fill the gaps, but the quality and caliber of the musicianship has dropped very noticeably.

Sorry, end of rant, but I don't see this situation lasting too much longer. The WL guy just got a Masters in Worship Studies from some small school in Florida, most of it correspondence material, and he has no qualms about letting everybody know it every time he speaks to a large group. My wife thinks he will take his new degree and bolt for more shiny pastures. That may or may not alleviate some of our concerns here, and it may simply move these issues to another venue. I can't decide if I should grin and bear it and keep playin' that gospel rock n roll, or if I should sit out and let it tumble. My brain says sit out, but my heart says I can be a stabilizing factor to some extent and I should not walk away from something that needs more integrity and more passion. In case you can't tell from what I wrote, I do feel a bit misguided at times. Thanks for listening, and for any input.

i had the same conversation with a fellow musician (who left the team already) a couple of years ago. he chose his path and I chose to stick around and serve those I can serve (not trying to be self-righteous here). yes it sucks to not be prepared (or given help to prepare) and to be brushed off numerous times. I stayed to mentor some of the younger musicians we have and maybe, just maybe, also to be of help to our WL. I looked at it as our WL needs help and he might not even know it.

Today, I can honestly say that he has changed for the better. There's still some issues here and there, but who doesn't have issues ;)

Keep on pressing on ... maybe you can be a blessing/encouragement to your WL as well. Just my 2-cents worth and hope it helps :)

I think you should push on through, but you need to confront him again, and here's how.

You already confronted him privately, that's good! The first step is done. Since he hasn't made any effort to change, you need to get someone else, or a couple other people with the same feelings to confront him. If that still doesn't work, you need to confront the senior pastor about the issue. This is exactly how it is explained to confront people in the bible. I cannot remember where unfortunately. Just make sure to do it out of love, and not to much out of frustration and anger.

It won't be easy, but it sounds like it should be done for the health of the church.

Hope this helps
Tim

Take a year off.


I'm not kidding. And feel free to share why. When the WL is left with a choice of leading nobody, the point will have been made.

OH NO! You have become a Christian musician who cares too much. :shock:

This will drive you mad. Because people generally don't change. I dealt with this for a decade. Now I only care about things that I think are worth caring about.
I've accepted many people's lack of professionalism and desire for excellence. Some people are not born striving for this. You can't change them. You can inspire them for a few moments but they will resort back to normalcy.

I try to find out what everybody's strengths and weaknesses are: then work with them. YOU cannot train a bad soundman to be a good soundman. They have to care and love the science of sound. So either fire them or just accept it. There might be a way to trick them into accomplishing good sound. But their emotional insecurities will eventually rise to the top again. And if you replace them you have opened a nasty can of worms.

I just shout my mouth and hope for the best. Sometimes luck is on our side. Sometimes not. That's the problem dealing with volunteers.

Honestly does God really care about your churches musical excellence? Not always.

Honestly does God really care about your churches musical excellence? Not always.

Yes, yes He does; to a point. He cares that you are putting forth your very best effort, not a lazy effort.

Going back to my last post. if the WL still doesn't change after the other confrontations, then you should leave immediately if you haven't already. Just my two cents.

Tim

I agree with confronting him again. In fact, you and a couple of impartial people should confront him, and each member who's also spoken to him should do the same. 10 times 3 is 30 people the WL will be accountable to if he lies again. And if he does lie again, the whole situation is to be turned over to the church leaders. If you find yourself, as I did, on the receiving end of some variation of "If you don't like it, quit," notify the leadership immediately. They may or may not take your side, they may even ask you to leave the church instead of disciplining or firing him, but this is the outline we're given for confrontation.

I had issues in a church with lying leaders, leaders who classified certain people as "less thans" by telling them they weren't to interact with congregation members, and leaders who just want a thriving cesspool that wasn't a real church, just a business. I spoke with the elders and a week later left that "church." Others have since followed my footsteps, not enough to convince them to make the needed changes, or even 10% of those who feel the same way, but enough that the weekly publishing of the previous week's attendance was suspended because the declining numbers were too embarrassing to publish.

It'll get uglier before it gets better. It all comes down to this: can YOU 1)support the leader? 2)stand or sit on stage and be a visible seal of approval of the ministry? 3)do so without needing antacids or anti anxiety/depressant meds, or otherwise hurt your health?

ALSO, a few years back a WL was hired and within 6 months resigned after being confronted because of telling lies to maintain authority and not be the bad guy (girl.) Just a little hope for you that things might go your way. :) Half our team was about to quit because of a lying WL and we stuck it out, though 6 months may not compare to what you've been dealing with.

If you study church history you can see the interesting things God does with Church progress and success - as well as failure.

Sometimes the deadwood needs to be cleared out. Some churches serve their purposes and then disappear. Have a look at Charles Haddon Spurgeon's church history in London England - from 23,000 people down to 200.

Did musical excellence play a part in that? Probably not. Music is great! But is it really important? We have Missionaries dealing with 1000's of dying starving children. Does God need better musicians? I doubt it.
Enjoy worship for what it truly is.

Is there mention of Jesus singing in church? NO. Why not? Priorities.

I have seen music destroy a few churches. Interesting eh? And I've seen some of the worst church bands ever actually have a 1000 people singing their hearts out. But mostly now I see fabulous Million dollar productions where It seems no one is singing - just enjoying the show. Now that's horrible.

I've been playing guitar in worship for 20 years. I've made every mistake (almost) that can be made when it comes to Worship and its focus. Now I just do my best and let God worry about the technicalities of people. Yet I sure love excellence - but at my own expense.

Ok, I see where you are coming from now goldie locks, and I agree. All that matters is where your heart is at, and that you are making an effort to be excellent, but not for your own glory.

Psalm 33:3
Sing to him a new song;
play skillfully, and shout for joy.


If your worship team does not do that with you and for you leave.

I have seen music destroy a few churches.

With all the suggestions to leave the church because of some issues with "the team", it seems to be going that way. Of course, if the reason you go to that church is only to play music, it kinda makes sense ... Maybe :(

Ok, I see where you are coming from now goldie locks, and I agree. All that matters is where your heart is at, and that you are making an effort to be excellent, but not for your own glory.

Yes, I understand better now also, Thanks, GoldieLocks! You are right, I believe. If it's dark in there, then someone needs to be the candle bearer, to light a path for others, not for myself. I can do that. :idea:

Thanks everyone for the input, it is all thought provoking and important. I met with our team's drummer today over lunch, and he is on board with just trying to contribute whatever excellence he can offer to make worship better for the congregation. Our new bass player is a good friend of his, and he is all for this same thing. The threee of us make a very solid rhythm section, and the other teams do notice, and it motivates them despite the lackluster leadership they are dealing with from that other guy. The congregation notices also, and they have voiced their pleasure with how inspiring worship is when our team is leading. God can make it work out the way it needs to work out, but we have to show up and do our parts!

We have an idea about taking the WL to lunch, our treat, and tactfully bringing up some of these concerns. I'm pretty sure it has a positive impact. One of his main "problems" imo is he values his friendships with the "lazy people" more than he values standing up and "cleaning house" if necessary to bring the worship teams back to where they were when he took over. Having been in a supervisory position in the past, I do understand the internal conflicts this can evoke. It is not an easy position to find himself in, I'm sure. But I also believe there is a way to talk to almost anyone so that they will listen without being insulted. Maybe one reason God has him in this position is to learn this exact lesson. He probably will not be able to move to any other position with his new degree until he learns this lesson. My speculation, but I'm guessing that's how things work in the big scheme of things.

Helpful stuff, people..... :cool:

I have seen music destroy a few churches. Interesting eh? And I've seen some of the worst church bands ever actually have a 1000 people singing their hearts out. But mostly now I see fabulous Million dollar productions where It seems no one is singing - just enjoying the show. Now that's horrible.

Yep, that is indeed horrible. I haven't been in any such situations myself but I can imagine it. Pursuing musical excellence at the cost of losing connection with the congregation who we're meant to be serving by helping them to worship through music.

I'm all for musical and techincal excellence. I'd like to think our band is continuously improving. But the focus is always on what's happening off-stage. If the whole congregation are just standing and watching then we've completely missed the point, no matter how great or terrible the music is.

I say this coming from a postion, probably only two or three years ago, where there was little real connection between band and congregation - it felt like a show where the band were average and the audience weren't too bothered about being there. By focussing first on why we do what we do, and thinking practically about how to help people worship God, we've also been able to improve our 'quality' - but that's a side-product.

Give me a badly-tuned piano and a group of people singing their hearts out in worship over a multi-million dollar show any day. And then lets tune the piano! :smile:

My praise band is down to me on guitar, the WL on piano, our drummer an usually 6 or 8 singers. We are trying to find more musicians, but aren't having much luck. Our congregation is usually between 75 and 100. Our WL is a bit on the high strung side, and thinks that the piano is the only instrument playing. He runs our rehearsals like we are professional musicians and not volunteers. We have been shhhh'd a time or two when discussing a song when he's had something to say. It's been a little tough at times, but I enjoy playing, even if its a little less fun sometimes.

As far as the million dollar productions go.... Not at my church. But if you want to really see the congregation participate, volunteer to play at your churches VBS. I'm playing this week at VBS and it's really a blast to see every single kid up and dancing and having fun.

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