Jazzy - Twang - Bite (Neck - Middle - Bridge)

Neck - Middle - Bridge

Hi Guys,

Am I asking too much from one set of PU's?

Neck = I'd like something that would give a passable jazzy tone in the neck position with the tone rolled off and a nice bluesy tone with the tone up. I have the grease bucket tone control.

Middle = This position for twangy country and rockabilly rhythms

Bridge = And something here with some bite and attitude.

I'd like the Lollar CC in the neck but I'm not sure I want to do any routing. Perhaps the Lollar Alnico 3's

Any suggestions?

Neck = I'd like something that would give a passable jazzy tone in the neck position with the tone rolled off and a nice bluesy tone with the tone up. I have the grease bucket tone control.

Middle = This position for twangy country and rockabilly rhythms

Bridge = And something here with some bite and attitude.

You're basically describing a stock off the shelf ordinary Tele here...

You're basically describing a stock off the shelf ordinary Tele here...

So of the 50 Teles in the current Fender line up they all have the same "stock off the shelf ordinary Tele" sound do they????

Thanks for your input, really useful comment.

So of the 50 Teles in the current Fender line up they all have the same "stock off the shelf ordinary Tele" sound do they????

Thanks for your input, really useful comment.

dude....chill

Vintage Vibes CC neck (A3 mags)

8SN_PRrlqzc

Zhangbucker 'paul bunyon' (A3 also)

WJw4IfHXg-I

With a 4-tet (Stolen Moments) but the sound quality is $h1te - skip to the solo at 3:56

j1pNvigmj2E

EMG T-set with an SPC does it all for me.

The main thing you want to look for is pickups with a vintage wind, and preferably A3. The middle position will sound better with no RWRP. I'd start with Fender OV's. They're affordable through Amazon.com.

Thanks Fezz. I'd just started to note that both the guitars you mentioned have alnico 3's.

"The middle position will sound better with no RWRP"

What's RWRP?

ORiginal Vintage, Nocasters and Lollars A3's are all shortlisted

Gives you hum cancelling in the middle position. Reverse wind reverse polarity. But it's just my personal preference regarding RWRP.

What guitar do you have?

What guitar do you have?

A recent American Special with the non CS Texas Specials. I've played with the pickup height to see what tone differences I'm getting but i'm hearing something I don't like, mainly in the bridge position.

There a slightly odd pickup, not to bad with gainer sounds but the cleans don't do it for me.

Vintage Vibes CC neck (A3 mags)

8SN_PRrlqzc

Zhangbucker 'paul bunyon' (A3 also)

WJw4IfHXg-I

With a 4-tet (Stolen Moments) but the sound quality is $h1te - skip to the solo at 3:56

j1pNvigmj2E

klasaine,

What are you playing in the second video at 3:15, sounds cool, Herb Ellis style jazzy blues. The CC pickup sounds nice. Thanks for sharing.

It's a stock Bb blues ad lib.
I'm on the CC pickup. Volume and tone are wide opened through a 6v6 BF style amp set flat.

*I was initially thinking of getting a Lollar 'CC' but a very renowned Tele pkup specialist (who by his own personal request will remain nameless) recommended Vintage Vibes. You can select your magnet alloy - A2, A3 or A5 - and he (Pete Biltoft of V.Vibes) sends you an extra second set of mags - your choice, no extra charge.

The 3rd vid with the band my tone control is backed off probably 1/3 or slightly more.
The wiring and pots in that Tele are stock MIM circa 2001.

It's a stock Bb blues ad lib.
I'm on the CC pickup. Volume and tone are wide opened through a 6v6 BF style amp set flat.

*I was initially thinking of getting a Lollar 'CC' but a very renowned Tele pkup specialist (who by his own personal request will remain nameless) recommended Vintage Vibes. You can select your magnet alloy - A2, A3 or A5 - and he (Pete Biltoft of V.Vibes) sends you an extra second set of mags - your choice, no extra charge.

The 3rd vid with the band my tone control is backed off probably 1/3 or slightly more.
The wiring and pots in that Tele are stock MIM circa 2001.

Thanks man, good shout. I like this quote from one of the reviews on the VVG website

"They’re super-smooth, sophisticated and complex and they’d be wasted on any guitarist who imagines that great jazz tone involves little more than rolling all the treble off a neck pickup and playing through a transistorized cube.”

:lol:

They also have this article from Premier Guitar which is interesting reading.

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2009/Jun/5_Single_Coil_Pickup_Builders_You_Should_Know.aspx ?Page=2

But it's just my personal preference regarding RWRP.

Hi Fezz, would you mind expanding on that? I've not yet heard of RWRP making any difference tonally.

You're basically describing a stock off the shelf ordinary Tele here...

Yup. Your average vintage voiced tele will sound something like that. Actually, jazz, twang, bite is a pretty good way of describing a tele! Cool!

Nocasters! :grin:

Nocasters! :grin:

On the short list

Neck - Middle - Bridge

Hi Guys,

Am I asking too much from one set of PU's?

Neck = I'd like something that would give a passable jazzy tone in the neck position with the tone rolled off and a nice bluesy tone with the tone up. I have the grease bucket tone control.

Middle = This position for twangy country and rockabilly rhythms

Bridge = And something here with some bite and attitude.

I'd like the Lollar CC in the neck but I'm not sure I want to do any routing. Perhaps the Lollar Alnico 3's

Any suggestions?

Two of my teles had the good neck and in between sounds though the neck is a little anemic. They were staggered bridge single coil vintage teles, '65 and '68. They have a great surf tone at bridge but not really that much attitude or ability to work the distortion angle.

Another tele I had sported the darker flat pole piece bridge pickup and the sound was closer to having an attitude yet maybe not quite as strong as I would want it. It was a MIJ Squier tele from '90.

Finally, my '90 American Standard was just right. The neck was a little hotter than the vintage ones so it could do the blues with tone all the way up and jazz with tone rolled off. In between seems OK, though a tad bit dark for my tastes but it still is in the same sonic territory to do rockabilly well. And the bridge is very midrange heavy and has the output to back it up. If you dirty that thing up, other than the hum, it sounds closest to my PAF. Bass and midrange are pretty well represented and I think this set, off the shelf American Standard Telecaster pickups, is an inexpensive choice without having to get a luthier to put a bigger pickup in neck and have to fashion new pickguard. If you do that, you can get a full sized humbucker with four conductor wiring and put a push-pull knob to be able to get it more to a tele sound, but have the full sized humbucker for classic jazz.

All that being said, nothing compares for jazz to the Charlie Christian pickup and if you are dead serious about that sound, put it into your tele. You may also want to consider Bardens but that's also an expensive option but you won't have to rout anything out or change your pickguard.

Two of my teles had the good neck and in between sounds though the neck is a little anemic. They were staggered bridge single coil vintage teles, '65 and '68. They have a great surf tone at bridge but not really that much attitude or ability to work the distortion angle.

Another tele I had sported the darker flat pole piece bridge pickup and the sound was closer to having an attitude yet maybe not quite as strong as I would want it. It was a MIJ Squier tele from '90.

Finally, my '90 American Standard was just right. The neck was a little hotter than the vintage ones so it could do the blues with tone all the way up and jazz with tone rolled off. In between seems OK, though a tad bit dark for my tastes but it still is in the same sonic territory to do rockabilly well. And the bridge is very midrange heavy and has the output to back it up. If you dirty that thing up, other than the hum, it sounds closest to my PAF. Bass and midrange are pretty well represented and I think this set, off the shelf American Standard Telecaster pickups, is an inexpensive choice without having to get a luthier to put a bigger pickup in neck and have to fashion new pickguard. If you do that, you can get a full sized humbucker with four conductor wiring and put a push-pull knob to be able to get it more to a tele sound, but have the full sized humbucker for classic jazz.

Thanks 63dot,

I getting the impression that the Alnico 3 feature in all the recommended guitars so far and that's what I'm trying to establish. Something versatile that can cover most bases.

The Nocasters seem to come in at about two thirds the price of the boutiques so they're looking likely

Thanks 63dot,

I getting the impression that the Alnico 3 feature in all the recommended guitars so far and that's what I'm trying to establish. Something versatile that can cover most bases.

The Nocasters seem to come in at about two thirds the price of the boutiques so they're looking likely

Are the alnico 3s hotter than that of vintage 50s/60s Fenders for the neck? My two old teles sound really nice but they lack the output in the neck. For rock and roll, I was never able to use the neck pickups alone and that was a shame.

Also, I used to have a Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounder set and while the bridge was too powerful and not so nice to listen to clean, the neck really could handle anything.

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/400732.html?utm_source=googleps&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=googleps&gclid=CO390OON2LACFUkaQgodtFbR4w

I know absolutely nothing about pickups, all I know is what works for me.

Per your description Dimarzo Twang Kings work for me very well.

Wow, reading this thread has been so entertaining! It kind of reminds me of watching Jerry Springer except there aren't any big guys coming in to break up the fights...

To the OP: What you have described is the basic vintage tele sound. I think that any nice set of 50s style Tele pickups will get you where you are wanting to go. Some people have mentioned Lollars and that is certainly a nice option. I prefer Lindy Fralin pickups myslef, I use the regular ole' "Stock Tele" set from Fralin and it does everything you ask. If you want a bit more output from the bridge position, you could use a stock in the neck and a blues special in the bridge.

Also, there are more factors at play than just the pickups. Think about your techinique, your settings on the guitar, setteings on the amp, etc. You can listen to a guy like Ted Greene or Ed Bickert that gets a very nice jazz tone using a tele, but really they are using for the most part very basic tele set ups. No fancy pickups, humbuckers, electronics, etc. On the other hand you have guys like Don Rich, and Roy Nichols that have the brightest spankiest twangiest sound you could think of and, again no fancy electronics, just a basic vintage tele set up.

The beauty of the Telecaster lies in its simplicity. With all of the aftermarket mods available here we are 60+ years later figuring out that what we were searching for all along was right in front of us!

What a waste of bandwidth. If y'all have a problem with each other, PM and keep it off the boards.

But Sean65, your post and your words were an overreaction. Sorry if that's difficult for you to face. I'm not saying your viewpoint was totally invalid, but you could have chosen to respond to it with the same message, but delivered in a nicer way.

It's easy to lose a valid message in poor delivery. You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Deluxe5D3 said nothing that merited that kind of harsh response. And no, this isn't trolling, it's a rational reaction to your public posts here on a public forum.



There is actually some truth to this, excluding models with obvious differences like humbuckers, P-90s, or Filter'trons. Sure, there will be different nuances between guitars, but you're not going to get the jazz tone out of the bridge and the twang out of the neck. The differences will become more obvious when you start looking at specialty after-market p'ups.

My personal favorites are the Lollar Vintage-T series. All three settings were amazing, and describe what you seek. However, I found that I got both the twang and the bite out of the bridge pickup. I used the middle position for strumming and chord work that worked better when my part wasn't prominent in the song in my band.

Thanks Scantron08

A man of reason. I agree with most of what you said.

I didn't want to start a thread with and A3 vs A5 or Vintage T vs Alnico 3 as I thought it might get a more honest response if I were to state the genre of music. How I play. What the pickups would be used for etc...

The idea was to get a more natural responses not too weighted by brand bias.

It's kind of worked apart from all the post that don't want to talk about pickups.

Are the alnico 3s hotter than that of vintage 50s/60s Fenders for the neck?


Not sure, it's info like that that I'm trying to find out.

The beauty of the Telecaster lies in its simplicity. With all of the aftermarket mods available here we are 60+ years later figuring out that what we were searching for all along was right in front of us!

+1

A CC is a completely different animal that a stock tele neck pkup and also different that a p-90 not to mention 'buckers or f.trons. It's dark yet clear. The A3 in that pup is central to it's tone. CC's are a little hotter than a stock T. neck but you definitley don't need a 'hot' bridge to balance - just a touch overwound maybe.

*As to the tone of the thread ...
When I see Jazzy - Twang - Bite as the 'title' of a thread at the tele forum - I assume the poster is trying to inquire a little more deeply into tone beyond 'stock'.

I'll agree that he probably just shouldn't have responded to the second post but man, I remember the fi$t1ng I got when I inquired about pine teles (in 06).

A CC is a completely different animal that a stock tele neck pkup and also different that a p-90 not to mention 'buckers or f.trons. It's dark yet clear. The A3 in that pup is central to it's tone. CC's are a little hotter than a stock T. neck but you definitley don't need a 'hot' bridge to balance - just a touch overwound maybe.

*As to the tone of the thread ...
When I see Jazzy - Twang - Bite as the 'title' of a thread at the tele forum - I assume the poster is trying to inquire a little more deeply into tone beyond 'stock'.

I'll agree that he probably just shouldn't have responded to the second post but man, I remember the fi$t1ng I got when I inquired about pine teles (in 06).

The CC would be great I'm just not convinced about the in-between sound. I'm even starting to wonder about the coil taped humbucker but again, the in-between sound might not be what I'm after.

Mine probably sounds closer to a strat pos. 2 or 4 that it does a 'classic' tele.
Classic Tele ... what the heck is that anyway: Steve Cropper, Muddy Waters, Roy Nichols, James Burton, Pete Townshend, Mike Stern, Ed Bickert

The CC would be great I'm just not convinced about the in-between sound. I'm even starting to wonder about the coil taped humbucker but again, the in-between sound might not be what I'm after.

Though it may look busy, do a true Nashville tele and wire it up on a pickguard and have the current one as a backup.

You could put a bright vintage style strat pickup in the middle and have the CC in the neck. Put in a five way switch.

That way, at least if you deal with the tele lead pickup and the strat middle pickup, then you know what you can work with:

Sound 1 will be tele lead
2nd will be notch 2nd position and strat like
3rd the strat middle pickup all alone
4th if you plan to use it, could be the strat middle and CC
5th position could the the CC alone

Something similar to this but with CC instead of humbucker in neck position:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/haywirecustomguitars/6965026324/

You are bound to have at least four workable, tried and true sounds from those five positions. And if you keep the other pickguard intact, you can always go back to standard tele.

Though it may look busy, do a true Nashville tele and wire it up on a pickguard and have the current one as a backup.

You could put a bright vintage style strat pickup in the middle and have the CC in the neck. Put in a five way switch.

That way, at least if you deal with the tele lead pickup and the strat middle pickup, then you know what you can work with:

Sound 1 will be tele lead
2nd will be notch 2nd position and strat like
3rd the strat middle pickup all alone
4th if you plan to use it, could be the strat middle and CC
5th position could the the CC alone

Something similar to this but with CC instead of humbucker in neck position:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/haywirecustomguitars/6965026324/

You are bound to have at least four workable, tried and true sounds from those five positions. And if you keep the other pickguard intact, you can always go back to standard tele.

That actually looks quite good. But that would throw open way too many new doors. In fact a p90 equipped les paul or a HSH Silhouette would also be options. But I'd just like to improve my tones using the tele for now.

I had an email from Lollar which surprised me because as the thread developed most recommended guitars pickups suggested alnico 3 style magnets, I guess for their clear articulation but Greg from Lollar recommended as follows.

Thanks Sean. The Alnico 3 is a great set, but would probably have too much “cut” for what you want. I have played western swing / jump blues for years, and find our Special T set to be perfect:

The neck is warm and clear, and the bridge is fat with a bit of push (but will twang). The middle gets a nice sparkle, with a bit of the Chet Atkins vibe thrown in.

Now that I think about it, the neck with a bit of volume and tone rolled off could be pretty damn close and then I have the other two positions to use as described.

That actually looks quite good. But that would throw open way too many new doors. In fact a p90 equipped les paul or a HSH Silhouette would also be options. But I'd just like to improve my tones using the tele for now.

I had an email from Lollar which surprised me because as the thread developed most recommended guitars pickups suggested alnico 3 style magnets, I guess for their clear articulation but Greg from Lollar recommended as follows.

Thanks Sean. The Alnico 3 is a great set, but would probably have too much “cut” for what you want. I have played western swing / jump blues for years, and find our Special T set to be perfect:

The neck is warm and clear, and the bridge is fat with a bit of push (but will twang). The middle gets a nice sparkle, with a bit of the Chet Atkins vibe thrown in.

Now that I think about it, the neck with a bit of volume and tone rolled off could be pretty damn close and then I have the other two positions to use as described.

That's an awesome recommendation. I would go with Lollar.

Hi Fezz, would you mind expanding on that? I've not yet heard of RWRP making any difference tonally.

Maybe it's just me, but I hear a slight difference. I believe that when you "buck" hum (which is really what RWRP gives you, albeit in parallel instead of series), you buck other stuff too.

Saw this vid of Big John's new signature set, I think the OP'll dig it:

W-JqskoAfrE

I think the Vintage Vibe CC sounds great -

I have one tele set up Nashville - like; with a Fralin Bridge, an Iron gear Strat middle and an SD SM-1 minihumbucker. The SM -1 is great for a lot of things - isnt all that jazzy though.


Have you considered a 4 way?
My other tele sports a set of Fred Stuart Blackguards - A3's - wired 4 way. Love the sound of them particularly the neck for jazz stuff -anyway heres a link to some live stuff with the FS Blackguard tele with the neck p/u...

http://soundcloud.com/gator3/vain

Saw this vid of Big John's new signature set, I think the OP'll dig it:

W-JqskoAfrE

Thanks man, interesting as he's got something similar to what I have arranged. I booked the guitar in for a set of Lollar Special T's but I'm not convinced the Special T bridge is right for me so I'm going with the Vintage T bridge and the Special T neck.

The Special T in the neck has the fat plumey sound I'm after and the Vintage T seem to have more bite and sound a bit rawer. I just hope they balance OK.

I think the Vintage Vibe CC sounds great -

I have one tele set up Nashville - like; with a Fralin Bridge, an Iron gear Strat middle and an SD SM-1 minihumbucker. The SM -1 is great for a lot of things - isnt all that jazzy though.


Have you considered a 4 way?
My other tele sports a set of Fred Stuart Blackguards - A3's - wired 4 way. Love the sound of them particularly the neck for jazz stuff -anyway heres a link to some live stuff with the FS Blackguard tele with the neck p/u...

http://soundcloud.com/gator3/vain

Thanks for the link, sounds just great. Really like your playing.:cool:

Cheers fella!:mrgreen:

I should say I have a mate who has the Lollar A3's in his tele - love the sound of those too...especially the bridge.

I use Lollar special in bridge and vintage in neck and feel is covers all territory.

The hotter pickup in the bridge compensates for how little the string vibrates at the bridge as opposed to the neck and keeps it pretty even when switching settings.

I use te pickups in all my teles. Check out my YouTube page to hear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQlG07bOQUE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I really want the Charlie Christians too but don't want to route anything.

Hope this helps.

I use Lollar special in bridge and vintage in neck and feel is covers all territory.

The hotter pickup in the bridge compensates for how little the string vibrates at the bridge as opposed to the neck and keeps it pretty even when switching settings.

I use te pickups in all my teles. Check out my YouTube page to hear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQlG07bOQUE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I really want the Charlie Christians too but don't want to route anything.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for sharing. Nice tone and playing man. I like messing with acoustic finger style on the Tele as well. Sound great.:cool:

My guitar's booked in for the end of the month for the Special T set but I'm really starting to wonder if I might prefer a Vintage T in the bridge. I can find any Youtube vids or reviews or info on this combo.
Maybe I'll just give it a go, if it work out then great if not then I'll swap them out.