Marty's Clarence specs ?

Went see Marty Stuart and the Superlatives last night and was absolutely knocked out by the tone coming out of Marty's amp. The most beautiful tone I've ever heard. The studio recordings don't even do it justice. I was wondering if you guys could help me with the specs of Clarence, ( saddles, ferrules materials, bridge pickup specs ) as I want to ultimately get my PartsEsquire as close to that heavenly sound as possible.
Thanks !

There's a ton of info on google. Just put in Clarence White Telecaster. Good luck on the hunt.

Go here to see.
http://www.pbase.com/jroy/inside_clarence_whites_telecaster

Go here to see.
http://www.pbase.com/jroy/inside_clarence_whites_telecaster

Thanks ! Already found that page... I'm really looking for what material the saddles are and what pickup would be the closest to the original. Thanks for the tip... :razz:

Velvet hammer pickups. I believe that guitar has brass low e, a,d and g saddles, and a steel b and high e saddle because of the b bender.

Velvet hammer pickups. I believe that guitar has brass low e, a,d and g saddles, and a steel b and high e saddle because of the b bender.

Thanks !!! :razz: Red Rhodes used to have a web page, can't find it now for some reason... :confused:

Hey fellas,

Went through this in Nov 2010.

Searched the tdpri and the Clarence White forums and found an enlightening series of pointed yet friendly debates on this topic. Mostly between Silverface and Brian Friend. Bob Warford as far as I know has yet to go on record, neither has Roland, Clarence's older brother. Gene Parsons has politely stated his pickups are/were stock, a 54 tele bridge and a 56 strat neck with a switch to get it out of phase.

Various amps and pedals were used, along with *possibly* a set of modded Velvet Hammers from Red Rhodes.

I say possibly 'cause neither Clarence nor Red are here to tell us. :(

But Google 'Jeff Rhodes'. Reds son started winding them again,great deal from what i read. $159 -ish.

Happy searching!

(Cue BrianF and Silverface for the next round of debating..... :)

Hey fellas,

Went through this in Nov 2010.

Searched the tdpri and the Clarence White forums and found an enlightening series of pointed yet friendly debates on this topic. Mostly between Silverface and Brian Friend. Bob Warford as far as I know has yet to go on record, neither has Roland, Clarence's older brother. Gene Parsons has politely stated his pickups are/were stock, a 54 tele bridge and a 56 strat neck with a switch to get it out of phase.

Various amps and pedals were used, along with *possibly* a set of modded Velvet Hammers from Red Rhodes.

I say possibly 'cause neither Clarence nor Red are here to tell us. :(

But Google 'Jeff Rhodes'. Reds son started winding them again,great deal from what i read. $159 -ish.

Happy searching!

(Cue BrianF and Silverface for the next round of debating..... :)

I think it's 56 Tele bridge pup and 54 Strat pup. Correct me if I've been reading wrong. I am in touch with Owen @ OC Duff and he said he can wind me one of his "Whiteguard" pickups, mid-50s Tele pups to match Marty's tone. I'm looking forward to that. I think that's gonna be my ticket. Clarence looks like it has steel saddles, it's what I have in my Esquire, with a aluminum E/A saddle, aka the Bakersfield Twang set from Glendale. So it's all good. I think I'll go with Owen. He already wound me a super nice blackguard-type neck pickup. You know I'll post an update whenever I get the pickup. :wink:

Just re-checked your OP, you mentioned his amp. Marty mentioned something I found in an article ( which I will post later once full find it ). He likes using 60s silverface Fenders

-***with the bright switch OFF***

I play a ParsonsWhite long throw B bender (which other than the bender is a stock 2010 American Special tele) Through a 68 Silverface Vibrolux, with the bright switch off, every thing else set on 7, its amazing!

I think in simple terms, turning the amp UP (i.e. past 5) allows the tubes to really do their job. Then you get into the rich harmonics and overtones that you never hear at bedroom volume levels.

The bright switch ON at 7 is just not ear-friendly. :)

Just my 2c.

I think it's 56 Tele bridge pup and 54 Strat pup.

You are right about the pickups, my bad!

Just re-checked your OP, you mentioned his amp. Marty mentioned something I found in an article ( which I will post later once full find it ). He likes using 60s silverface Fenders

-***with the bright switch OFF***

I play a ParsonsWhite long throw B bender (which other than the bender is a stock 2010 American Special tele) Through a 68 Silverface Vibrolux, with the bright switch off, every thing else set on 7, its amazing!

I think in simple terms, turning the amp UP (i.e. past 5) allows the tubes to really do their job. Then you get into the rich harmonics and overtones that you never hear at bedroom volume levels.

The bright switch ON at 7 is just not ear-friendly. :)

Just my 2c.

Thanks ! :razz:

I remember reading somewhere that Marty had at least the bridge pup rewound... hmm.

I think it's 56 Tele bridge pup and 54 Strat pup. Correct me if I've been reading wrong. I am in touch with Owen @ OC Duff and he said he can wind me one of his "Whiteguard" pickups, mid-50s Tele pups to match Marty's tone. I'm looking forward to that. I think that's gonna be my ticket. Clarence looks like it has steel saddles, it's what I have in my Esquire, with a aluminum E/A saddle, aka the Bakersfield Twang set from Glendale. So it's all good. I think I'll go with Owen. He already wound me a super nice blackguard-type neck pickup. You know I'll post an update whenever I get the pickup. :wink:

When you get the pickup, I'm sure Owen will make any changes necessary if you're not satisfied. I don't know him personally but have had 2 great OC Duff experiences

When you get the pickup, I'm sure Owen will make any changes necessary if you're not satisfied. I don't know him personally but have had 2 great OC Duff experiences

He's top class, in my experience. Answers emails within an hour or so, always very helpful and very friendly. Love doing business with Owen.

I remember reading somewhere that Marty had at least the bridge pup rewound... hmm.

:confused::shock::roll::lol:

If one could unequivically state when that guitar had what pickups youd be up for the Nobel Prize in Teleology...keep in mind that pickups are only part of the equation...that guitar also has a rim with a masonite cover on it,,,to cover the bender mechanism...that back..about 2/3s the thickness of a second body is hollow...and imparts an acoustic resonance that a regular tele just couldnt get...the strings go thru a block glued on the back of the tele body so you need not remove the masonite cover on the back to change strings...so theres a bunch of stuff in the mix....I dont know about Owens pickups..but I have a set of Velvet Hammers and to my ears, they are the finest tele pickup there is...now..mine are in a Stringpull Nashville West...with a thickened body so the resonance is there, etc...so the guitar isnt a straight tele.

One thing Ive noticed about Marty is that he and Kenny Vaughn frequently play interlocking parts...the live Country Boy Rock and Roll and Hummingbyrd videos show that pretty clearly...and what you think might be Marty is actually Marty and Kenny

If one could unequivically state when that guitar had what pickups youd be up for the Nobel Prize in Teleology...keep in mind that pickups are only part of the equation...that guitar also has a rim with a masonite cover on it,,,to cover the bender mechanism...that back..about 2/3s the thickness of a second body is hollow...and imparts an acoustic resonance that a regular tele just couldnt get...the strings go thru a block glued on the back of the tele body so you need not remove the masonite cover on the back to change strings...so theres a bunch of stuff in the mix....I dont know about Owens pickups..but I have a set of Velvet Hammers and to my ears, they are the finest tele pickup there is...now..mine are in a Stringpull Nashville West...with a thickened body so the resonance is there, etc...so the guitar isnt a straight tele.

One thing Ive noticed about Marty is that he and Kenny Vaughn frequently play interlocking parts...the live Country Boy Rock and Roll and Hummingbyrd videos show that pretty clearly...and what you think might be Marty is actually Marty and Kenny

I know... :sad: I'm on a wild goose chase... Again... :mrgreen: But that whole experience exposed me to the mid-50s Teles' sound, I'm anxious to put a "whiteguard" type pup in my Esquire. Different flavor. I'll report as soon as I get it in there.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/b-bender-forum/244386-marty-stuart-clarence-white-bender-pups.html

This topic has been discussed at length at the Clarence White forum..in fact theres currently a short thread. The consesus seems to be that at some point Clarence had pickups that were rewound by Red Rhodes, with the secondary coil on the bridge pickup, and unique wiring harness...which were produced commercially as Velvet Hammers...but when Marty bought the guitar, thise pickups had been removed.

One thing about that guitar...it has a rim on the back..about 2/3s of a tele body, covered by a sheet of masonite...the bender works are housed in there. That chamber on the back also acts like a sound box and gives a secondary acoustic resonance...and would be picked up by slightly microphonic pickups.

Velet Hammers are availble again, Reds kids are producing them now...but...Im not sure what Marty has inthe guitar now...

You said the same things 2 years ago Don...

I knew that I had read that the pickups had been rewound somewhere.

Marty had this to say back in 1986.

"After I got that guitar, I'd play along with the Byrds' records," he says. "I'd get the licks right, but the guitar just didn't sound the same, no matter what I did. Then, in 1980, I bought Clarence's guitar from his widow, Suzie, and found that it had just a little bit longer pull than any other bender I've ever seen. That little fraction of an inch seems to create an overtone or something, and it makes all the difference in the world. Roland says Clarence used to call it Frankenstein because of the way it was put together. The front pickup came out of a Stratocaster, and the rear pickup is a stock Tele that was rewound by Red Rhodes. It's a lot hotter and has a fatter sound than a stock Telecaster pickup. Clarence also had Scruggs [banjo] tuners put on the high E and the A strings. It really is an experimental axe."

http://www.martystuart.com/ZArt-GuitarPlayer-12-86.htm

Thanks, Clint ! :razz:

Not really about Clarence but when I went to see Marty Stuart few months ago, he was playing through a sliverface deluxe reverb and I asked him at what volume he was running it and he said 2.
I have a silverface deluxe reverb too and I couldn't believe that he was only at 2. I usually run mine between 3 and 5, 2 would be way too low for stage volume with my amp.
Both Marty and Kenny's tone were to die for at that show :)

Not really about Clarence but when I went to see Marty Stuart few months ago, he was playing through a sliverface deluxe reverb and I asked him at what volume he was running it and he said 2.
I have a silverface deluxe reverb too and I couldn't believe that he was only at 2. I usually run mine between 3 and 5, 2 would be way too low for stage volume with my amp.
Both Marty and Kenny's tone were to die for at that show :)

Like I was saying before, I was sitting in the third row so I heard the tone from the amp, not the PA and it was soooo good... :shock: I noticed he was using a Radial Bigshot PB1 boost pedal. So maybe he gets his tone with low wattage amp and a boost. It looks like he uses SF Princetons on his show. That's what Kenny was using that night as well as far as I could tell.
I'm really just trying to get as close as I can to the tone I heard that night. So any pickup that's gonna put me in the ballpark is good enough for me. Clarence White's tone on Sweetheart Of The Rodeo would be cool too... :cool:

The plot thickens! The Tele that Clarence played on Sweetheart (I believe) is the white Tele that Clarence sold to Bob Warford. I think it had a Strat neck, and Bob built his own bender into it. So much of Clarence's sound was his amazing right hand, sycopation, timing, and light touch. I still miss him, but it makes me happy to see young guys getting into this wonderful musician's work.

Yep, that's why I wrote that I'd like to get close to Clarence ( the guitar ) but I'd settle for his white one's tone on Sweethearts. :mrgreen: It might be easier to achieve, since it was pretty much stock vs. all the mythology and mystery surrounding Clarence's ( the guitar ) mods all through the years...

Yea, I wish Marty would have left it alone and not put in that E string bender and moved the Scruggs tuner from the A to E string. But I guess it's his guitar to do as he pleases. I'll be forever grateful to him ,though, for letting me play it backstage when he was working for Johnny Cash at a show in Seattle. At that point, nothing had been changed on the guitar, as far I know.

Like I was saying before, I was sitting in the third row so I heard the tone from the amp, not the PA and it was soooo good... :shock: I noticed he was using a Radial Bigshot PB1 boost pedal. So maybe he gets his tone with low wattage amp and a boost. It looks like he uses SF Princetons on his show. That's what Kenny was using that night as well as far as I could tell.
I'm really just trying to get as close as I can to the tone I heard that night. So any pickup that's gonna put me in the ballpark is good enough for me. Clarence White's tone on Sweetheart Of The Rodeo would be cool too... :cool:

I saw Marty and the Superlatives late last year in Macon, GA. One of the best shows I've seen in years. According to Marty's road manager who I talked to after the show, the Radial Bigshot is Marty's only effect other than the amp reverb from the silverfaceDeluxe reverb he was using. He brought Clarence out the edge of the stage so that I could see it better, but it never left his hands. I agree, it's one of the best Tele tones I've ever heard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_fypxLVbs0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Nice to see the original bender is still working... I also appreciate Marty's down-to-earth manner and sense of humor. He fumbles the last lick and just pulls an "whoops" face. He's the first to admit he's no Clarence, just a keeper of a workman's axe that's still bending. Great to see it still being played despite it's wayhuge collector's value. If Mac Yasuda had his way he'd plunk down a million and lock it in a vault. Then no one would hear it!
Sorry, rant over. Carry on with the tone talk, fellas...
:)

I'll jump in since my name has been tossed around here -

The guitar, when Fender took it apart at NAMM, reportedly had a rewound single-coil bridge and rewound Strat neck pickup. By who or when was unknown. Whether Marty has changed them since then is unknown. Whether it had those pickups in it when Marty bought it is unknown - supposedly it was missing strings and the bridge pickup didn't work according to some reports.

As far as the Velvet Hammer pickups, there's a clear difference in sound in Clarence's recordings - primarily live - starting in 1969, which is when the "boost coil" bridge pickup was installed, and what was previously a phase switch was used (half of it) to turn the extra coil, which was wired directly to the output, on and off. Those the instantaneous tone/volume canges you can hear in things like the Swedish recording of Buckaroo/Nashville West that are totally different than his 1968 live recordings.

The guitar itself, IMO, would have tremendous tone (and did) no mater what pickups were/are in it. Same thing goes for Mike Nihen's Nashville West Guitars and the "Clarence Clones" Brian Friend and I recently cobbled together from an old Fender 400 pedal steel changer and various other parts.

Part of that is the extra resonance produced by the "tone chamber" created by the false back. That rim and cover keeps the back of the guitar off the body, reducing some damping effects; and like an acoustic it allows the body to vibrate like a "top" - and even a thick solid body gains some overtones by being suspended by a back rim.

Several companies have produced "standoff" units over the years to allow bodies to vibrate - and having experimented with some of them I agree with the acoustic theory behind the idea.

So besides starting with a good ash body, the "double-wide" construction contributes to the tone. And don't get me wrong - I thought it sounded great before the Velvet Hammers were installed, even in its original configuration (it was an Esquire - check the original photos of Clarence playing just before Chris Hillman quit) - and I think the tone Marty gets is quite similar to the '68 tone Clarence got - definitely a Tele, but a REALLY good one (some of the latter VH recordings you'd think he was playing a Les Paul)

Hey Silverface, when Marty let me play the guitar before the Cash show in Seattle, I distinctly remember the decal said Esquire. So do you know if Marty changed the neck later on? I remember the Esquire neck had a smaller profile.

He must have changed it (again...as Clarence apparently changed it a few times). As I reall it had a Tele decal in the Fender photos.