A walk on the dark side - Duncan Little 59

I just did something I didn't think I'd do, but I took the plunge. What the heck.

I installed a Duncan Little 59 in the bridge of my old 52RI. I'd been pretty happy with my VanZandts for years, but a regular gig at a room with horrible electrical noise made me move to hum canceling pups. I tried some Fender Vintage Noiseless, and while the neck is good the bridge was just too bright and clinical. It just made the guitar feel harsh and thin.

I admit I chose my Tele to humbuck instead of my Strat. I really like the setup of my Strat more than the Tele, with which I have fought as if we were an old married couple for 30 years. I always come back, just like real life.

I deduced to try something completely different, and it sure is. In standard series wiring, the Little 59 is very warm and full. It's fun to play the old girl through that voice - it's really well done, and sings like nuts. I will try the parallel option as soon as I grab a DPDT mini toggle for it.

Now the FVN neck pup sounds empty and meaningless. What neck pup that does not require routing might be a good, full sounding, hum-canceling match?

I love the Lil 59!

Welcome to the Darkside!

How about the Duncan Vintage Stack Rhythm?

-dont split it. IMHO really really thin
-L59 is super screw height sensitive... you can get some great dynamics when
you heighten front row, lower back row...right 3 vs left 3, etc, etc.

have fun

Theres no '59 set w corresponding N, which seems strange to leave those who like the B hanging.I compared a '59 Strat N w a Tele N and its wider and longer base wise so that probably won't fit. SD recommends the Vintage Rhythm Stack as Cyanide said.

Theres no '59 set w corresponding N, which seems strange to leave those who like the B hanging.I compared a '59 Strat N w a Tele N and its wider and longer base wise so that probably won't fit. SD recommends the Vintage Rhythm Stack as Cyanide said.

SD recommends the Vintage Stack Rhythm? Wouldn't it just get clobbered by the output of the Little 59?

Looking at SD's charts it would seem that the Hot Rail for Tele Rhythm is closer in voice and output to the Little 59. Any opinions here?

Personally I don't like rail attack. It sounds like 2 bricks being clicked together, then the note comes on. YMMV. If SD recommends the 2, they should match output wise, at least the same way a normal Tele N and B does.

I needed noiseless Tele too, and after a few tries I really like the Vintage Stack pair.
The Neck is a great Tele neck pickup for me, sure it doesn't compare with an original Nocaster - but it's a good Tele neck sound. I really like the Vintage Stack Bridge.

I have the Lil 59 in a strat - to me it would take away too much of the Tele-ness. (thanks for the tips on screw height though Uriah!) I do Split HB pups - but not that one. The split never really gets me true single coil tones anyway.

Didn't like the rails - though they seem to work for Bruce. Did not like the Hot Lead Stack at all - no life. I liked a DiMarzio Pre-bs, but that was bridge only and a long long time ago.

Personally I don't like rail attack. It sounds like 2 bricks being clicked together, then the note comes on. YMMV. If SD recommends the 2, they should match output wise, at least the same way a normal Tele N and B does.

OK, thanks. Not sure how the Rails neck sound compares with the bridge, but I'm assume it's kinda over the top as you describe.

I gotta admit, after playing guitar for a long, long, time - I don't really dig the Tele neck pup. None of them that fit in the standard cavity, at least. I've had many, but wind up leaning on the bridge pup 90% of the time because the neck pup is so reticent. Not the case with Strats - on that guitar, I can make much better sense of the neck pup. It "just works" for me.

So if the SD Vintage Stack Neck is another low-output, not-too-snappy neck pup, I don't think I'll like it any more than the others. Perhaps I should just take the plunge and rout the guitar for a Strat-sized neck pup. That way, all the options are open - I can put a matching Strat Little 59 in there, or when I go back to single coils I can drop in a regular Strat pickup. I'd probably like it better, regardless.

I know it's a 52RI, but I've altered it plenty over the 30 years I've had it. It's wonderfully resonant, but I no longer care much about it's "vintage" appeal. So I just might...

Theres no '59 set w corresponding N, which seems strange to leave those who like the B hanging.I compared a '59 Strat N w a Tele N and its wider and longer base wise so that probably won't fit. SD recommends the Vintage Rhythm Stack as Cyanide said.

I suspect that the small form factor of the Tele neck pup was simply too limiting for the Little 59 design parameters.

I went full-sized bucker in the neck.

I tried a real hot single coil, and it couldnt compete. The lil 59 just blew it away. The rails? I just dont like their tone.

Threw a Manlius full size in mine, and I love it. But I'm sure you wanna keep from widening your pup cavity out on your 52 RI.

I went full-sized bucker in the neck.

I tried a real hot single coil, and it couldnt compete. The lil 59 just blew it away. The rails? I just dont like their tone.

Threw a Manlius full size in mine, and I love it. But I'm sure you wanna keep from widening your pup cavity out on your 52 RI.

Actually, at this point I don't mind changing that guitar. I've had it since it was new in '82, and it's always been a workhorse club instrument. I've refretted and re-radiused the neck (3rd set of frets), changed electronics and tuners, the usual stuff that one does to keep the machinery working. It is a good Tele, but hardly a great or unusual one.

I don't believe, nor care, that it has any "vintage" value. That's just crazy, IMHO. It was a gift to me from my father back then, and so I'll always keep it, modified or not.

I just ordered a pickguard cut for a Strat pickup, and I'll have some small bit of body routing done to accommodate the slightly larger size. I can always put the old pickguard on and go back to a traditional Tele neck pup, but I doubt I will simply because they've never quite cut it for me.

Right now I'm thinking that I'll just drop a Strat Little 59 in the neck and call it a day. The guitar will be transformed into a different beast, but that is just fine with me. I'm up for a change with it, and I have a bunch of gigs coming up. My Strat has all the twang I could ever want, and so the Tele will assume a somewhat different, and useful, role.

I love the Little 59.

Ive got it in my #1 and im debating putting one in my new build.

I have the Strat L59 in the neck of my AS, to go with the Tele L59 in the bridge. They match up great, although the pole pieces don't line up perfectly, I can't see as it makes any difference.

I've also got a Bill and Becky Strat L290 (280? Can't remember, it's been many years) beteween them, wired to a push-pull so I can retain all possible combinations. Great, versatile, good-sounding setup.

I had the bridge wired up to another push-pull to do series/parallel between the coils. Liked it way better than splitting. Had to ditch that for the Graphtech Ghost install, but that's another story ... :)

I think the Lil 59 sounds great, but it doesn't sound tele enough for me. I didn't like the split tone.

Why don't you try a Barden rail neck pickup?

Have you tried an EMG T-set?

That lil '59 definitely has a sound similar to the EMG SAs (similar to EMG Ts ^^^^) I heard in a Charvel superstrat with a powerful attack, in your face midrange and hotly compressed, and ready to kick butt through a Marshall or Boogie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViCDTwVQ4js

Like the video says, it's really great for rock.

I should also mention that I switched to 500K pots when I went with the 2x L59 combination. Made a big difference. And now it's running with no tone pot at all, and sounds great. (Had to lose the tone circuit, again as part of the Ghost installation).

Thats great... I love the little 59! I have one in the Tele I'm playing right now... and I have a spare sitting in my guitar build box for a special occasion!

Enjoy it! It is a versatile pup

Have you tried an EMG T-set?

Oh, yes. I have a set right here. They don't do it for me, at least in that instrument. .

I know that the guitar won't have a traditional Telecaster tone with the Little 59s, but that's OK. The Little 59 bridge is a beautiful sound that, while quite different, is something that pulls me. It's like seeing your spouse/lover in attractive new clothes; familiar and still new.

When it comes to classic Fender sound, my Strat is a far better tool. I'm NOT saying that Strats are better than Teles, but that MY Strat is a better twang machine than MY Tele. Hands down. So I don't mind "repurposing" my Tele a bit.

My Tele is really light and resonant, but extra aggressive on the top end. I've always had to work the tone controls a lot to bring it in line. The Little 59 seems super articulate and organic in that guitar, a very good match. It opens new possibilities, and I can always go back to my single coils.

I've ordered the pick guard with Strat pickup hole, and the Lil 59 Strat neck. This should be fun.

-I thought Billy Gibbons was using a lil59...same look...on his esquire, but, it was 'sd bg1400 '
I will have to check it out sometime. Probably like a lil-pearlygate

Someone put one in the 96 MIJ tele I have before I bought it. It's in the bridge and they just kept the 250 pots. With the correct ht adjustments, it doesn't blow the standard neck pu away. I think it' good but just OK. I'm going to try it with a 500 pot(s). What is everyone using for pots with this when using a standard neck pu?

I know that the guitar won't have a traditional Telecaster tone with the Little 59s, but that's OK. The Little 59 bridge is a beautiful sound that, while quite different, is something that pulls me. It's like seeing your spouse/lover in attractive new clothes; familiar and still new.

When it comes to classic Fender sound, my Strat is a far better tool. I'm NOT saying that Strats are better than Teles, but that MY Strat is a better twang machine than MY Tele. Hands down. So I don't mind "repurposing" my Tele a bit.

My Tele is really light and resonant, but extra aggressive on the top end. I've always had to work the tone controls a lot to bring it in line. The Little 59 seems super articulate and organic in that guitar, a very good match. It opens new possibilities, and I can always go back to my single coils.

I've ordered the pick guard with Strat pickup hole, and the Lil 59 Strat neck. This should be fun.As long as your putting a '59 in the N, if you want to add a 4 way or 5 way switch, I recommend the N and B outter coils (closest to neck for the N and closest to the bridge for the B), in series. Its humbucking. Ground the N coil for best full freq transfer, the B coil for mid emphasis.Order G to Hot sounds different for series , especially w different Z p/ups. It gives a great spacial vibe w the same rough impedance as a single p/up.

Seymour Duncan mini humbucker, sm1 might be good. But then you gotta carve. It's supposed to be like the original firebird pickup: alnico 2 etc. It's in the neck of the '52 Hot Rod which is the tele I own. I love the bridge single coil my tele. For me it's the right amount of hot, not too bright, a lot of harmonics. I bet you Rev. Billy G. would approve. It's hard to find info on that pup, Fender just says it's a "custom wind". Switch to the middle position and you have a whole new animal.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/artist-interview/johnny-winter-bluesrock-icon-goes-back-to-his-“roots”-with-seymour-duncan/

Seymour Duncan mini humbucker, sm1 might be good. But then you gotta carve. It's supposed to be like the original firebird pickup: alnico 2 etc. It's in the neck of the '52 Hot Rod which is the tele I own. I love the bridge single coil my tele. For me it's the right amount of hot, not too bright, a lot of harmonics. I bet you Rev. Billy G. would approve. It's hard to find info on that pup, Fender just says it's a "custom wind". Switch to the middle position and you have a whole new animal.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/artist-interview/johnny-winter-bluesrock-icon-goes-back-to-his-“roots”-with-seymour-duncan/

That's a good match to the lil '59. While they are both hot pickups, the firebird pickup has an open and warm tone (by comparison) where the lil '59 is very tight and compressed. You get both sounds and the in-between. The guitar will ultimately sound more like a Les Paul or SG than a two single coil pickup tele. If you want a completely open tone, get the full sized Seymour Duncan '59 in the neck. It's the least compressed sounding pickup and will work really well with the focused attack of the lil '59. Throw in some serious overdrive and magically they actually sound like each other though they come from different points of view. Not just limited to roots rock and blues, the lil '59 and firebird pickups can kill the heaviest metal and punk with no problem.

That's a good match to the lil '59. While they are both hot pickups, the firebird pickup has an open and warm tone (by comparison) where the lil '59 is very tight and compressed. You get both sounds and the in-between. The guitar will ultimately sound more like a Les Paul or SG than a two single coil pickup tele. If you want a completely open tone, get the full sized Seymour Duncan '59 in the neck. It's the least compressed sounding pickup and will work really well with the focused attack of the lil '59. Throw in some serious overdrive and magically they actually sound like each other though they come from different points of view. Not just limited to roots rock and blues, the lil '59 and firebird pickups can kill the heaviest metal and punk with no problem.

I am going to route the Tele for a Strat neck pup, which is a relatively small change. I don't wish to carve out more for now. If I decide to go back to single coils, I will likely go with a VanZandt bridge with a VZ Strat neck pup, and so the new routing will be useful whether or not I stick with humbucks. It achieves the goal of allowing a Strat sized neck pup, since I don't want any more Tele-sized ones.

Boy, the Little 59 is a trip in the bridge position. So responsive, fat, and sustaining, it tempts me to misbehave!

I am going to route the Tele for a Strat neck pup, which is a relatively small change. I don't wish to carve out more for now. If I decide to go back to single coils, I will likely go with a VanZandt bridge with a VZ Strat neck pup, and so the new routing will be useful whether or not I stick with humbucks. It achieves the goal of allowing a Strat sized neck pup, since I don't want any more Tele-sized ones.

Boy, the Little 59 is a trip in the bridge position. So responsive, fat, and sustaining, it tempts me to misbehave!

I had a Seymour Duncan Hot Rails in an Ibanez strat type guitar (lower end Roadstar) routed for three single coils and I treated like a guitar designed for humbuckers. It did really well. Sure, there were many Ibanezes with a full sized bridge humbucker with single coils but since I didn't get one, I made one via the Hot Rails. That was before the Cool Rails, lil '59, and lil JB so the total focus was for a distortion humbucker. I like that the lil '59 could go hot but also go clean and make a humble sound if needed.

http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w470/rebelwithoutaclue/RandysEsquirerelic002.jpg
You could also just Esquire it and be naughty:twisted:

I have the neck pickup from a 90's Mexican Strat in my Tele, and it's a great match for the 59 I have in the bridge. They're pretty even in output. The split 59 is weak, but I use that to my advantage- I use it for rhythm, then get more gain when I switch to the humbucker on a lead.

-I thought Billy Gibbons was using a lil59...same look...on his esquire, but, it was 'sd bg1400 '
I will have to check it out sometime. Probably like a lil-pearlygate


Isn't it the "Pearly Gates for Tele" not the BG1400? The BG1400 looks like a standard Tele bridge pickup install. Unless I'm confused. The PG for Tele looks just like the lil'59.

Isn't it the "Pearly Gates for Tele" not the BG1400? The BG1400 looks like a standard Tele bridge pickup install. Unless I'm confused. The PG for Tele looks just like the lil'59.

The Duncan Custom Shop Pearly Gates for tele model sits at a 90 degree angle to bridge just like a full sized humbucker and pole pieces are spaced accordingly and right on the string. At 17K and ceramic and having both coils spot on the strings, I would guess it's hotter than the lil '59 but not quite at the level of Hot Rails, but I don't see the harm in angling the pickup and skewing pole pieces to string as on a standard tele with lil '59 but I would think it may lose that Pearly Gates bite:

http://compare.ebay.com/like/160819224709?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

Just a little info tidbit on the lil 59:

My buddy and former bandmate Gilby Clarke not only has the prototype lil 59 in his Tele, he is the artist that colaborated with Seymore Duncan on its development.

When Gilby joined GnR, he was primarily a Les Paul guy (still is, and has one helluva collection). But that wasnt blending too well with Slash, who is a Les Paul guy too.

Gilby wanted the bite, grunt, and range like a Lester, but blended with a Tele tone, so he could get that great dual guitar attack, while not sounding just like Slash. Two definitive, balls2thewalls guitar tones!

I had no clue of this when I installed my lil 59 in my number 1. Gilby told me about it after I kept bragging about how much I love this little raging pup in my partscaster.

Just a little info tidbit on the lil 59:

My buddy and former bandmate Gilby Clarke not only has the prototype lil 59 in his Tele, he is the artist that colaborated with Seymore Duncan on its development.

When Gilby joined GnR, he was primarily a Les Paul guy (still is, and has one helluva collection). But that wasnt blending too well with Slash, who is a Les Paul guy too.

Gilby wanted the bite, grunt, and range like a Lester, but blended with a Tele tone, so he could get that great dual guitar attack, while not sounding just like Slash. Two definitive, balls2thewalls guitar tones!

I had no clue of this when I installed my lil 59 in my number 1. Gilby told me about it after I kept bragging about how much I love this little raging pup in my partscaster.

That's very interesting, a brush with fame!

Cool story, Praise. Thanks.

Did you guys keep the 250K pots or take the jump to the 500K?

Did you guys keep the 250K pots or take the jump to the 500K?

I went 500K for volume and tone both. Nowadays I run without a tone circuit at all, and it sounds great that way too.

Isn't it the "Pearly Gates for Tele" not the BG1400? The BG1400 looks like a standard Tele bridge pickup install. Unless I'm confused. The PG for Tele looks just like the lil'59.

Yes..you are correct...my mistake..

nice note On G.Clark (cool)!

I went 500K for volume and tone both. Nowadays I run without a tone circuit at all, and it sounds great that way too.

Did it make a huge difference in tone? I already have one installed with a
250K pot. I like it, but there is always that "what if." Would it be worth changing?

Did it make a huge difference in tone? I already have one installed with a
250K pot. I like it, but there is always that "what if." Would it be worth changing? I find w most p/ups you get the best tone between 300K-400K in terms of strong bass and sweet treble. 500K might be too much if you can't dial in the perfect R , in a performance setting etc. for single coils, but for the '59 its only slightly more trebley than the sweet spot. If you can fine tune or wouldn't mind a little more treble full on ,go w 500K.

I kept the 250k pots. Love it!

Right now my Tele has the stock 250K pots and 0.047mfd tone cap, but the cap is clearly too high a value for the Little 59 bridge.

When I finish this project and have the Lil 59 neck pup installed, I'll probably try 500K/500K/0.022mfd to give it a bit more bite.

Everything should be in place by the weekend or early next week.

I use 500 K pots with my SD lil 59 equipped guitars. Sounds good to me.

That's very interesting, a brush with fame!

Eh, more like grew up with him. We terrorized Redondo Beach like it was nobodies bidnis! HAHAHAHA! Redondo was so laid back in those days. Other than the occasional pipe bomb in the school lockers late at night (I only heard about that going on. I'm like Sgt. Schulz: "I KNOW NOTHINK!", lol!)

He and I are Alum's of Aviation High School, and our original band Exodus, then changed the name to Capone (gangsta dontchya know), and the Gilby Clarke Band.

He then went on to join Candy, and started the band Kill for Thrills, then got the big call to GnR. Izzy actually recommended him as his replacement.

Did it make a huge difference in tone? I already have one installed with a
250K pot. I like it, but there is always that "what if." Would it be worth changing?

Horses for courses. I found the 250K too dark, and it was hard to dial the sparkle back in on my preamp (I used a Mesa V-Twin for clean sounds at the time). Going to 500K brightened it up, and it was easy to dial back any undesirable high end.

In the end, if you're happy with what you've got, don't mess with it. On the other hand, it's a simple swap (as long as you know how to solder the back of a pot, heh) and easily reversed if you find it too bright.

Funny enough, I just went through the opposite problem on a Greg Bennett FA-1. For some reason, it had 500K pots with the stock single coils, which sounded fine (not great, but tonally well balanced). When I put in the spare set of mid-90's Am Std pickups I had in the parts box, it was icepick city and I had to swap in 250K.

Right now my Tele has the stock 250K pots and 0.047mfd tone cap, but the cap is clearly too high a value for the Little 59 bridge.

When I finish this project and have the Lil 59 neck pup installed, I'll probably try 500K/500K/0.022mfd to give it a bit more bite.

Everything should be in place by the weekend or early next week.

On behalf of the community I demand an audible demo!!!!!!!!
Just as good as the EMG T-Set plus SPC was!!!!!!
I'm serious!
I keep coming back to this thread for days in hope of hearing you to no avail!
That's not nice Brad!
Not nice at all!:razz:

I put one in a 68 tele and it was pretty good but not so good as a single coil or wired in parallel.

On behalf of the community I demand an audible demo!!!!!!!!
Just as good as the EMG T-Set plus SPC was!!!!!!
I'm serious!
I keep coming back to this thread for days in hope of hearing you to no avail!
That's not nice Brad!
Not nice at all!:razz:

Don't worry, it will happen. Just gotta finish pulling together the whole project - waiting for my Little 59 Strat neck PUP to arrive, then I am good to go!

Have any of you installed a push pull pot to split the coils?

Have any of you installed a push pull pot to split the coils?

I did that, but found it pretty sickly - the output dropped a ton, and the tone suffered badly. What worked a lot better for me was a push/pull to change the coils from series to parallel (see the "Parallel Wiring" section of http://www.seymourduncan.com/images/schematics/501005-110.pdf, and note that a push/pull pot is considered an on/none/on DPDT).

Not quite a true Tele bridge pickup sound, but reasonably convincing.

What worked a lot better for me was a push/pull to change the coils from series to parallel.
Not quite a true Tele bridge pickup sound, but reasonably convincing.

For now, my plan is to leave the pickups in standard series-humbucking mode. I'll use it like that for a while before adding other options. I'm going to assign my Tele the "fat guitar" roles and use my Strat for my usual shiny, chrome-plated sounds. In the really noisy rooms, I'll use just the Tele for it's hum cancelling.

My pickguard arrived from Warmouth, black and cut for a Strat pup. Fits perfectly. The additional body routing to accommodate the Strat neck pup is easy. Looking forward to this project coming together for a string of shows starting July 7.

I'm really glad I found this thread, never too late lol. I'm in the same boat. Little 59 bridge, Vintage Noiseless in the neck. I like the VN for cleans but it doesn't keep up with the 59 in Overdrive etc. I think that I'm going to put a full sized humbucker in the neck, no need for a rout, to fill out my tone.

I'm really glad I found this thread, never too late lol. I'm in the same boat. Little 59 bridge, Vintage Noiseless in the neck. I like the VN for cleans but it doesn't keep up with the 59 in Overdrive etc. I think that I'm going to put a full sized humbucker in the neck, no need for a rout, to fill out my tone.

I thought the Little 59 made the VN neck sound like a ghost of pickup in comparison. No way could I match those two, ergo the path I am taking.

I was in the local Guitar Center yesterday and almost bought the 'Lil 59 for the bridge of my neck bucker tele. Should have just done it. Sounds like a well regarded pup by most users. My guitar is equiped for changing pot values from 250k in the bridge to 500k, so it shouldn't be too dark or muddy. I'm thinking it might balance a little better with the neck bucker.

Hi!!!

I am in the same boat. Loved the acoustic tone of my 2012 American Tele from day one, love hoe it balances and plays. Not a fan of single coils other than a Strat middle and neck pickup. I have the Little 59 in the bridge of my Tele and it needed a 500K pots set, but my biggest struggle has been finding the perfect neck pickup in my Tele to compete with the goodness of the Lil 59.
Right now I have the Duncan Vintage Stack and it is decent but too dark round.

-Rich

Thanks for the review. Been wanting to try one for awhile now.