5F1 Head

It's been a while since I built something so I'm going to knock out a 5F1 head. I've rewired cars, guitars, pedals, amongst other things... but this is my first DIY amp. I've ordered the Boothill audiophile 5F1 kit, now it's time to accumulate the other parts (and ask plenty of dumb questions as I fumble through). The plan is to build an amp for recording or practising - but just for kicks I want a head so I can flip between the cabs I have access to. Ultimately, i'll most likely run to a 1x12 cab, and i'd like to copy the circuit mods of a Victoria 5112 as closely as possible.


Anyway, for now i'm in the process of buying and gathering parts. I'll update this build as progress is made.

G'day, will watch with interest. Plenty of helpful dudes here :wink:

OK, Boothill kit... check. O & P trannies... check. Tube kit... check. Time to go shopping for a 12" speaker. Any recommendations?

Muchxs has recommended going for something vintage and lo-fi, phono style... but here in Australia that kinda stuff is abhorently expensive due to it's rarity, so i'm scratching that idea for now.

I've been looking at the range of Webers. Based on online reviews, the 12-150's seem to get the best wrap in a 5E3 - but which? O, B, T, A or W? Hmmm...

For swapping between cabs, did you consider a multi-tap output transformer? 4 ohm for a 2x12, or 8 ohm for a single is a nice option. I just did this and added micro switch on my 5F2A build. What type of sound are you looking for? Raunchy dirt as early on the volume knob as possible? Or as much clean as possible as far up the volume dial as you can? This will help in deciding on a speaker.

The transformer I have on the way is 4/8 ohm switchable... I made sure of that :wink:

As for sound - I play rockabilly, 12-bar bluesy rock, surf, and rootsy rock n roll through single coil guitars. I don't like crystal clean tone, I like a bit of grit and grease in my sound... that said I don't want an amp that gets out of control too fast. I guess I want it relatively clean as far up the dial as I can, as long as there is a bit of rage and stink to be had at the top.

Ultimately i'm not chasing maximum volume either, I just want it loud enough to satisfy me after i've had a few beers and decide to dime it :lol:

Weber will sting yah for postage...check out WGS4.com

I did check out the WGS offerings Telenut - I checked out every speaker I though would be suitable - but i've ended up going for a Weber 12A125-A 30w light dope.

These speakers seem to be all the go in a 5E3... lets just hope it will translate in a 5W amp.

These speakers seem to be all the go in a 5E3... lets just hope it will translate in a 5W amp.

It will.

I did check out the WGS offerings Telenut - I checked out every speaker I though would be suitable - but i've ended up going for a Weber 12A125-A 30w light dope.

These speakers seem to be all the go in a 5E3... lets just hope it will translate in a 5W amp.

Ok as long as your prepared to get ripped off for postage, the base price is $105 for an Alnico is a good deal, so you place your order.....but...the postage is unknown, right? They will determine what it will cost after you given them your credit card details....shock number 1.
Shock number 2...they will bill your credit card again without your knowledge with "extra" postal charges. You will only know this if you check your statement online or when you get the invoice with the speaker.

I've dealt with them before, so i'll take my chances. If they made a habit of ripping off customers there'd be plenty of online brand bashing exposing their reputation.

I am in Canada, a lot closer to Weber than you guys in Australia. I will not order again, new stuff from Weber, to be shipped to my address in Canada. The do indeed kill you on the freight and handling charges. I ordered 2 transformers and a chassis for my 5F2A build, they tried to charge me $90 for the shipping. Then I would have had to pay UPS brokerage and any duty fees,plus local tax when it arrived.I cancelled the order and had it shipped my brothers mail box, just inside the USA border instead. Cost? $22.
I look for used Weber speakers direct from personal sellers on forums like this one. The shipping will kill any deal you thought you were getting from Weber, in my opinion.

In my opinion the reason there is not a ton of online bashing about it, is most of the folks on here are in the USA. There are a lot less non-Americans who have ordered from Weber and been ripped by the shipping fees. Weber shipping within the USA is totally reasonable as I pointed out above.

I've dealt with them before, so i'll take my chances. If they made a habit of ripping off customers there'd be plenty of online brand bashing exposing their reputation.

Yup, no worries see how you go, I was twice bitten, so.....

$90 for shipping - i'm OK with that, but I live in Perth so I don't usually blink at postage/courier costs.

Another week until I get home, and parts have started arriving... I can't wait to get started on this :eek:

Yup that's right....now wait for the "handling" charge :roll:

Good Thing Keith you pointed this out, because I have been tempted to order a 12A125 from Weber and after reading this, no siree..

I've ordered from weber twice, once was just caps, wire, resistors, small stuff, the 2nd time was for 4 Weber 10a125 speakers (no dope on cones and they sound GREAT) used in my 5f6a. Both times shipping was not that big of deal. I'm 5 minutes from Blaine WA and the price diff was not worth my time to ship there and pick it up.

Just my experience.

Weird how there is conflicting stories on Weber charges into Canada. I wonder if there is any logic in how they come up with shipping charges? I am not exaggerating. $90 they quoted me.

Shipping does change from day to day and week to week. But I have had the same experiences ordering an amp kit from them. About $90 shipping plus about $80 brokerage fees when it arrived I believe. Maybe it was slightly more. I just chalked it up to being the price of getting stuff shipped from the USA to Canada. It has cost about the same when I've bought an amp from the USA on ebay. I buy parts from Hoffman and CeDist and it will sometimes cost $30 for a small box that probably weighs less than a pound. Still usually makes up the price difference from ordering the same things from Canada, especially if you end up needing to order from more than one place to get everything you need. Plus it seems that if you aren't ordering from the USA you are basically stuck with Hammond transformers, or big box speakers. Less selection. I love Weber speakers and their iron, or their Heyboer/weber spec'd iron.

The cost is a non issue to me - so lets move on from that. Seeing I plan to keep this amp forever I might as well get it right first time around, otherwise it'll forever be on the bench as I replace this, that and the other. Quite simply, no other 'new' 12" speaker gets the same universal praise in a tweed as the Weber 12A125A (apart from the louder Celestion Blue), so I went for it. If it doesn't work out, i'll wear it.


Good news is I got home tonight after two weeks night shift, and a heap of prezzies waiting for me. The transformers and tubes I ordered from Triode Store arrived less than four days after I ordered (wow!!!), and a few parts from Warmoth to finish off my BSB partscaster. But the best surprise was the arrival of my Jackson DK2S Sustainiac - brand new, $600 to my door.

On the other side of the weekend i'm guessing the 5F1 kit should arrive, so I might plan the woodwork in the meantime.

I'll post some pics when the daylight hours return, but for now i'm going to bed.

I have a 12a125a, not in a tweed deluxe, but it is a great speaker.

The cost is a non issue to me - so lets move on from that. Seeing I plan to keep this amp forever I might as well get it right first time around, otherwise it'll forever be on the bench as I replace this, that and the other. Quite simply, no other 'new' 12" speaker gets the same universal praise in a tweed as the Weber 12A125A (apart from the louder Celestion Blue), so I went for it. If it doesn't work out, i'll wear it.

I hear yah, I wear the shipping cost as well as I buy almost all my major amp components from the US. For a 12" speaker the USPS priority rate is around $70, and most other speaker suppliers charge that, so Weber charges a bit more...fair enough. But no one has ever helped themselves to my credit card to top up a charge that I've already paid for, without even contacting me first...I think most folk would feel pissed off.

This thread needs pics.

Bits from triode store:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/bits.jpg


And a couple of my guitars. The DIY tele sounds wonderful - it's turned out to be a real surprise - the synergy of great parts... I can't wait to hear it through the 5F1. The Jackson is my newest. The tone hasn't dropped my jaw yet, but I gotta learn it out a little more - it certainly offers it's own bag of tricks.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/axes.jpg

I have bought a bit of Weber stuff. The complete 6A14 combo kit was US190 freight to NZ

Last time I bought a couple of their 12" speakers it was US$60 freight for the pair.

They use FedEx to ship here. Just sayin'.

I bet the'll be nothing wrong with that OT...nudge nudge wink wink :grin:

I was actually looking for Hammond trannies locally, but the suppliers I contacted never got back to me... so I popped these into the cart when I ordered my tubes @ Triode Store.

Hard to find a whole lot of info on this brand, but what I did find they seem to be reasonably reputable... transformers on the whole are pretty hard to A/B with reviews... nobody pays them any attention until something goes wrong.

I asked the dude at Triode if he's had any issues with the transformers and out of 500 he's sold....never had a prob.

Classictone is a model made by Magnetic Components, they are as good as any trannies you could buy at any price. I have the OT that you have in the picture paired with a different PT.
I have not heard from anyone who ever had a problem with their product, Chad at Triode is a great guy to work with, he really knows the product and is well versed in tube talk. He like many gracious members here are happy to help with a question or problem solving.

CG, for Hammond in Australia and most other amp building supplies try EVATCO in Qld Mal and Carol provide fantastic old fashion customer service. A google search will bring up their website. I find most orders arrive within 2 days to eastern States.

I went to Bunnings (aussie hardware chain), but they don't have the right router bit to suit my planned box jointing jig, so disappointingly today is a day of no progress. I'll have to go to a specialist trade supplier tomorrow, as being sunday they're closed for the day.

Anyway, no point wasting time - it's new string day around here. 5 down in record time.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/Guitars.jpg


Now my plan is to track down this material for the head, or something of very similar colour and style.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zsoD75oP7Cc/St6hU-N7kSI/AAAAAAAAC30/NrNhaJLaeAY/s400/Hotel+Monaco+Upholstery.jpg

I may tweed and shellac my 1x12, but the head needs to be a bit more funky and interesting.

Cool collection, all bases covered there.

Well, the postman dropped off a little bundle from Boothill just now.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5316.jpg

After a quick poke through it all, I realise how much of a learning curve I have ahead of me :roll:

Before I do a mock up of the circuit - what would you suggest be the best method to accommodate both 4Ω and 8Ω speaker taps for my head setup?

OK, mock population complete - can anyone see any stuff ups?

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5330.jpg

I have two questions at this stage - I have two 1.5K resistors, one brown, one blue - I think in the pic I have them in the wrong spots... can this be confirmed?

Also, there's two 22K resistors - one 2w and one 0.5w... are they in the right general locations in the pic?

Copy the 5F1 layout - its a proven layout

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7272/7418749148_1d41bbbbe8_b.jpg

I have a 5F1 clone in Deluxe cabinet naturally with 12" speaker. At this side of the pond selection for 4 ohm drivers are limited. First I installed Fender (by Eminence) speaker. I liked the sound a lot. But as you know soon you are wondering if the grass is greener on the other side. I have an external 12" cabinet for my SCXD which has Eminence Texas Heat inside. I found a 4 ohm version of Texas Heat, so I tried it, but with 5F1 the original Fender sounded for some reason to my ears better.

But now when I read this tread more carefully I found out that you have more impedance choices with your OT.

Copy the 5F1 layout - its a proven layout

I have a Weber schematic printed off, as well the one you've posted above. I've copied it right as far as I know, but being my first amp build I don't quite trust myself just yet - i'd rather ask a dumb question and get it right than dismiss a concern and make a mistake :oops:

The larger capacitors in the kit have me scratching my head - they're all pretty much double what the original schematic calls for. Why is this?

Another question - why do people wrap around the turret rather than go through the eye?

Well your off and running, here are some pics to help....

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx217/telenut62/5F1GA5II/09062012725.jpg

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx217/telenut62/5F1GA5II/09062012726.jpg

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx217/telenut62/5F1GA5II/11062012730.jpg

To answer your questions, the OT 4 and 8 ohm output can be switchable, someone that's done it may show a pic of the wiring.
Maybe swap the 1.5K around, the blue one could be a higher watts, but it won't make any difference.
Wow that first filter cap is huge, gonna be fun squeezing that in...but don't solder in the middle cap till you've mounted the OT. The reason they are a larger value is to decrease 60Hz hum.
I prefer my component leads to go into the turrets but watch for multi point junctions, usually you can get three leads into the hole.

:confused:Hey guys and Che Guitarra in particular ( I'm in Perth too ) I'm finding it very good for my self confidence to read this post as I also bought the 5F1 kit from Boothill Amps. I asked, before I purchased, to see the instructions for this project and was given a link, which seemed step by step and convinced me to go ahead ( even I could do that ).
After the kit arrived tho I realised I was supposed to know that the instructions which appeared in the link were not actually what was required and I became very dissapointed and frustrated at finding myself up the proverbial without a paddle ( components not as described, wires not the same colour code etc ).
I have found, now, someone who is helping me and we are making progress so I'm feeling your exasperation and experiencing a steep learning curve myself.
It seems that people who know what they are doing have very little concept of how confusing it is to be confronted with decisions when you have no idea of the implications, and how a simple 1. 2. 3. step plan might be more appropriate for novices so they don't have to try to sort through 5 different models to try to make sense of it.
I would've preferred that for my introduction to amp building anyway - and I would've had it finished by now!
Anyway "all well tat ends well" I suppose - good luck with it and maybe we can compare results one day.http://www.tdpri.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif

Very pretty Telenut, I only hope mine will look that neat. I'm going to leave this for a night - i'd really like to see that 4/8Ω switch mod so I can plan the layout in advance.

Dmondo, yeah it's got me thinking too - but I like a good sink or swim project, and DIY is so much more satisfying. Luckily there's forums like TDPRI - even better - people who are willing to help and want to see you succeed in your build.

What i'd really like to know is what each component does in reference to the final sound, but I guess that comes with experience.

I kinda did mine by just reading through posts too,
people here are very helpful and if you just follow the instructions on tubesdeport as a rough guide and follow the layout very closely, you shouldnt have any problems

...but don't solder in the middle cap till you've mounted the OT.

I ment to say the board, the mounting screw is usually under that cap.

The blue 1.5K ohm resisitor has longer leads so it will fit best where you have it. The larger Filter caps provide better filtering with todays higher wall voltages.

Start by soldering the components to the board. Begin with the components on the right and work your way to the left.

Before soldering, cut and wrap (See video) the components to the board where you can.

That first 1.5K resisitor can go in the holes in the top of the turret.

Before doing anything else, go to my website and see all tips and tricks short videos:

Then come back here.

I watched all the videos - it's becoming clearer now, and i'm confident I can get a fair whack done today :smile: I can freeze the video in places to see the close ups, so I think that will help a lot (to see what tricks you've used). I also downloaded a resistor app for my phone to double-check all the components (for my own learning).

Maybe the only thing i'm not clear on is the wire colouring - is there an accepted colour scheme or is it a matter of personal preference?


I also want to confirm/ID the taps on my OT. The speaker power must be the green and yellow taps, but i'm not sure which is 8Ω and which is 4Ω... i'm guessing yellow is my 4Ω?

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5335.jpg

Luckily, based on the weber schematic, it looks easy to mod for a 4Ω/8Ω switch.

All specifications are on the ClassicTone website...

http://www.classictone.net/40-18030.pdf

Well, i'm off to Jaycar - needs (note to self):
- A/B switch
- modular power connection point thingy
- new soldering iron
- flux core solder

Any thoughts on what wattage soldering iron I should get? I currently have a 40w Weller, but it's in dire need of replacement... and a little bit too bulky for fine work.

OK, mock population complete - can anyone see any stuff ups?

I have two questions at this stage - I have two 1.5K resistors, one brown, one blue - I think in the pic I have them in the wrong spots... can this be confirmed?

Also, there's two 22K resistors - one 2w and one 0.5w... are they in the right general locations in the pic?

Hey, those big three filter caps need to face the other way. Negative to ground. Maybe you knew, but I didn't want to take a chance.
Good luck with your build!!!!

Stick with 40watt, the nib is fine enough for this kind of work

Woop woop! Happy with things so far (yes the mounting screw is installed behind the 2nd cap filter).

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5337.jpg

That looks good !

Time to hold the horses. I'm wondering as I solder in the tube side wires - what colour coding do I use here? It looks like the green wire supplied in my kit is slightly 'beefier', so i'm wondering if it has a special application? I don't really know which lines require more oomph.

Here's where i'm at. Input side is mostly done apart from the grounding... seeing the ground wire has no give i'll finish this off once installed.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5346.jpg

A few more Q's based on the Weber schematic
- The PT has a tap to the pilot light then goes on to 'All Fils'... what does that mean?
- I don't know how to interpret my power transformer PDF from ClassicTone to get my 240V/60Hz... http://www.classictone.net/40-18027.pdf The pic below shows all the taps coming to and from the PT. I also plan to run one of these modular power connection points to make life a little easier too.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5351.jpg


And lastly - what's this for? It's the one piece left over

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5353.jpg

A few more Q's based on the Weber schematic
- The PT has a tap to the pilot light then goes on to 'All Fils'... what does that mean?
- I don't know how to interpret my power transformer PDF from ClassicTone to get my 240V/60Hz... http://www.classictone.net/40-18027.pdf The pic below shows all the taps coming to and from the PT. I also plan to run one of these modular power connection points to make life a little easier too.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5351.jpg


And lastly - what's this for? It's the one piece left over

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5353.jpg

Hey, Che!

This is Triode's layout for your 240V connections:

240 Operation (http://site.triodestore.com/5F140-18027240V.pdf)

"To all Fils" means the green wires twist and go to the lamp, then on to the 'filament' heaters on the power tube and preamp tube.

PT wiring: Connect and insulate the solid brown and black w/white wires. Brown w/white goes to center of fuse. Red w/black goes to white from your wall socket. Black snipped and capped. the two red w/white are alternative 550V (instead of the 'normal' 630V red pair) that go to your rectifier. The red w/ yellow and green w/yellow are center taps that get grounded to the mounting bolt.

Lastly, that funny connector is an insulated mounting strip attached to another one of the PT mounting bolts. You can use this to solder the red w/black and the white from the wall. (don't ground it!)

This might make it easier to interpret:

classictone 40-18027 (http://www.classictone.net/40-18027.pdf)

Hope that helps! (folks in the US are just waking up :wink:)

(also hope I'm not wrong :oops:)

charisjapan

Hey, Che!

This is Triode's layout for your 240V connections:

240 Operation (http://site.triodestore.com/5F140-18027240V.pdf)


Now THAT is a good schematic... 10x easier to understand. I'll wait until the morning and then get the rest done.

Thanks so much CJ :smile:

EDIT - in the diagram - off the power transformer, the black = N/C... does this mean no connection?

EDIT - in the diagram - off the power transformer, the black = N/C... does this mean no connection?

Probably :confused:

According to The Free Dictionary (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/N%2FC)

Acronym Definition
N/C No Change
N/C No Comment
N/C No Charge
N/C Not Covered
N/C new condition
N/C Numerical Control
N/C No Connect (electronics)
N/C Normally Closed Contact
N/C Non-Consensual ** :grin:
N/C Nuclear to Cytoplasmic
N/C Newton Per Coulomb
N/C Number of Users Per Cell Density

Che_guitarra did you sand off the red coating off the grounding strip where your solder connections are?

Yeah - I scraped it off with a knife.

N/C in this genre means not connected. Green for heaters.

Fils = filaments = heaters.

May we see the back of the board wiring?


Install board, Mount vol pot and input jacks Then do your tube socket connections.

Words of advice:

Go slow. Take your time and enjoy the process. Haste makes waste.

Make sure your solder joints are strong. They do look good.

Also:
Spread the resistor and capacitor apart so they have some breathing room. Cathode Resistors get hot and caps no likey.

That little terminal strip is used to make a ground at a PT bolt.
You must expand the mounting hole so it will fit the transformer stud.

That will ground your first and second filter cap, Your PT center tap, your heater center tap, your power cord ground wire.

Join the two terminals together with a piece of wire and solder so that they both make ground. Leave the holes open so you can use them for said purpose.

Posting pics and Q's in this forum is a most excellent way to build your amp.

Great Job.

The larger capacitors in the kit have me scratching my head - they're all pretty much double what the original schematic calls for. Why is this?

In the old days of making the 5F1, you couldn't readily get e-caps much higher than 16uF. If you could then Fender probably would've used them, because, generally speaking - the more capacitance, the 'better' for filtering purposes (up to a point). The exception to this is tube rectifiers, where there is a maximum recommended reservoir capacitance in order to preserve the longevity of the rectifier tube (which is generally 16uF on most 5Y3GT datasheets, but they have been known to take up to 40uF. Bear in mind that datasheets were produced by tube manufacturers to encourage conservative running conditions for tubes. Nevertheless, 40uF is a bit harder on a 5Y3GT than 20uF)

Nowadays with improvements in technology etc you can get e-caps at much higher capacitances than what Fender had available in his day.

Having said all that, some guys prefer to keep the pre-amp supply node filter cap values deliberately lowish (around 8-10uF) to preserve the mojo of the original amp sound. If your'e running 8uF, 10uF is no different in practical terms (e-caps typically have manufacturers rating tolerances of up to 20%); likewise, a 20uF rated cap, might actually 'measure' at 16F. Same with 22uF

Another question - why do people wrap around the turret rather than go through the eye?

Its a style thing

This is looking good, Che.

It's great to be able to watch and learn by watching threads like this before tackling my own. A lot of questions get answered along the way.

In regards to the filter caps, I just read about an amp mod where the guy had replaced the caps with a lower value to get a more 'woody' tone. I guess that kind of decision-making comes from having built more than just one. Be very, very careful!

Mark

It's fun waking up to a project like this. I let it go last night as I was getting a bit tired, and that's when mistakes get made.

Dave - I copied the underside by freeze framing the videos you have on your site (and Googling 5F1 circuit pics)... then a little bit later I realised it's a incomplete circuit in your hand! Oh well, that gave me something to think about :lol:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5356.jpg


At the PT - I joined a couple of wires behind the heat shrink, the others I snipped short at slightly different lengths and grouped together to keep it all neat and tidy.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5360.jpg

And just now I moved the green thing (which i've just learned is a cathode resistor) to a space of it's own, as per Dave's suggestion.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5359.jpg

My first job for the day is to buy a new bit for my Dremel, as I have to accommodate the IEC power connection. Internally - space is tight, but it should fit.

"I also want to confirm/ID the taps on my OT. The speaker power must be the green and yellow taps"

I was under the impression, and maybe I am wrong, that off the OT to the speaker it makes no difference which wire is positive or negative, in relation to the speaker. Can anyone confirm? Yes it does matter on a multi-tap which is 4 ohm and 8 ohm, but does polarity matter? In terms of hooking up multiple speakers, yes I know it matters, but in single combo? Thanks.

Progress has again stalled... damn Americans and their imperial measurement system!!! I can't install the PT as I can't find #8-32 nuts anywhere!

Otherwise I modded my chassis to fit my 4Ω/8Ω switch and IEC power input.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5361.jpg

Here's the switch i'll use for the 4/8

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5367.jpg

And i've modded the triode PDF a little for my switch - is this circuit right?

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/Untitled-6.jpg

Try Carole at Evatco....

http://www.evatco.com.au/index.htm

A little tip I did was mounted my mini toggle switch like yours, but turned it 90 degrees. When the switch was thrown it went forward toward the grill cloth and back toward the rear of the amp. I wired the 4 ohm lead so when the switch was tipped "four-ward" to the front of the amp, it was 4 ohms. Back was 8 ohms. That way it was easy to remember. No need to scratch 4 or 8 into the chrome chassis near the switch, or make a less than pro looking label. I just reach down there to confirm it's pointing forward for 4 ohms, back for eight. I can do it blind, in the dark with my eyes closed and I'll never forget it. Forward for 4. Easy to remember!

FYI the switch works like a teeter totter. When angled in one position, the pole leads on the back side, opposite from the switch lever are activated. In your mini switch photo above, the switch lever is pointing to the poles in the RH corner that are active.

Got my supplies, but I had to drive an hour across town to luck out. Just a biddy bit to go now - pending on a confirm of my 4/8 switching schematic.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5397.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5400.jpg

The PT should be facing the other way (180 degrees) so the wires line up better to the rectifier. Anyway here's what your looking for...

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/shock-brothers-diy-amps/327447-troubleshooting-5f1-no-sound.html

Post#13 and #18

Awesome, thanks for digging that up Telenut. That's how I though it should go, but i'm going to read that thread 10 times to make sure i'm not oversighting anything.

Should I bother to flip the PT now it's wired up, or is that just an aesthetic thing?

Flip it :wink:

Switchable 4/8 ohm

The black lead from your OT secondary goes to the ground tab on your speaker jack.

Solder a wire from Center of switch (com) to the hot side tab of your speaker jack.

The green OT wire (L1) goes on one end of the switch. The yellow OT wire (L2) to the other end.

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/7613/26478583.jpg
By boothillamps (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/boothillamps) at 2012-04-23

Compare your wiring on V1 preamp tube with this:

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/429/silvertone010.jpg
By boothillamps (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/boothillamps) at 2012-04-11

Lay those wires down onthe floor of the chassis and separate them. Do not allow them to mingle. This is the art of Lead Dress.

If I were you, I would improve the lead dress on V1, wire the power tube socket V2, Run the heater wires and lastly address the switch and speaker jack.

You need some room to work to do the heaters. You don't want anything in the way that doesn't have to be there. You may burn wires if they are in your way.

Don't do your V1 heaters like mine unless you are using a Russian 6N2P (Good and cheap tubes, BTW).

For a 12AX7 or similar:

Instead, join pins 4 and 5 with one heater wire and put the other on pin 9.
Twist 2 lengths of green wire together. Make sure the twisted wire pair will reach from one tube to the other. You must approximate the length of the two cut wires.

Twist them fairly tightly. Begin at V1. You will need to expand the holes in the tube socket pins with a small round file.

Lightly, but sufficiently Tin the ends of the stripped wire. (Put a little solder on there and melt it into the free ends so they become fused.)

Put the tinned end into pin 9 and sodler in place. Neatness counts big time.

Snip off any excess length with flush cutting nippers. Check the joint. Reflow if needed.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5405.jpg

Gee, I totally over-thought that 4/8 switch!

So the circuit is done for now - the leads aren't dressed quite as nice as yours Dave (let's call that a first timer's error), but they are well spaced from each other and free from 'visible' interference - if worst comes to worst there's only two that need lengthening so they lay down nice and pretty.

My main concern is the green heater wires connecting at the back of the pilot light come awfully close to the largest cap filter on the circuit board. But too late for mods now - i'll leave any fixes until the morning.

Anyway - I have a Marshall 4x12 cab coming around tomorrow I can test the 5F1 with, so I will do just that. It's all a learning curve from here - i'm confident the wiring is 100% correct, but if I have any hum issues i'll put it back on the bench and chalk it up to experience.

Don't worry - i'll discharge the circuit before I attempt any mods... and i'll get on here asking 100 more questions before I attempt to neutralise the circuit!

Oh - one more Q for now - the loose pins in the tube sockets - can they be removed?

... the loose pins in the tube sockets - can they be removed?

Easy to take pins out of ceramic sockets - just untwist the inside end with a pair of needlenose pliers and push them out. If they're left in they'll rattle.

(Make sure you aren't going to use them tho'. It can be a good idea to keep pins 3 and 5 in a rectifier socket in case you want to mount any protection diodes in series with the HT winding and the rectifier's anodes (Pins 4 and 6), which BTW, is also a good idea in a tube-rectified amp. While I'm at it, it can also be a good idea to keep Pins 1 and 6 in an output tube socket, in case you want to mount any screen-grid or grid-stopper resistors.)

Those heater wires on the pilot light do come close to that big cap. That's ok. Just check for any physical interference and correct if necessary.

Well, I fired it up this morning into my Flextones 8Ω Celestion. Pilot light - check. Tubes glowing - check, turn the volume dial and...... nothing. Shut it down!

Houston we have a problem. I'm not getting a sound - not even the faintest of AC hum.

The problem has to be within the ohm switching or speaker jack connection, as they're the only bits I winged, and I think I can see what the problem is:

On the Ω toggle switch I kept the wiring all on the same side. Maybe I have to separate the ins from outs, ie, keep the ins on one bank and the out on the other.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5408.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5407.jpg


Holy crappola on closer inspection I can see i've fried a resistor!! OK, time to down tools and wait for an explanation.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5409.jpg

1. Where are your primary wires from your output transformer?

2. That shorting jack (speaker out) needs a jumper from the switch (center lug) to the ground lug. (This is not the cause of your "no sound" condition).

3. Black wire from OT secondary should go to ground on speaker jack.

4. See notes above for switchable speaker impedance.

5. What is that green/yellow wire doing? It looks like it is on the speaker jack ground tab with the black wire.

OT wires:

- green and yellow go to the toggle switch,
- black goes to sleeve and ground.
- red goes to the largest filter cap and #8 on the 5Y3
- blue is going to #3 on the 6V6
- brown is N/C

That is correct.

What is that green/yellow wire doing? It looks like it is on the speaker jack ground tab with the black wire.

The green/yellow runs from output jack sleeve to the ground point inside the case.

Green/yellow is the standard 'ground' colouring in Australia, so I used it when it got trimmed off the PT.

Here's a couple more of the problem area. Nevermind the burn on the 'hot' speaker feed, that was a mistake of mine when I was heat shrinking. You can see the BBQ'ed resistor in this pic too.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5411.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5412.jpg

Get rid of that green/yellow ground from the speaker jack. Let the speaker jack ground itself where she sits. Just tighten her up good and she'll make ground there.

That heat shrink may "make you overlook or otherwise miss" bad joints that you cannot see.

So,

You've got lights on in all tubes, but no sound.

The thing about amp building is that every connection is critical and must be true.

There are no redundancies. Everything serves a purpose. (Except for the negative feedback. the amp will work without NFB. That is: You may disconnect that burnt 22K resistor that goes to the hot tip on the speaker jack).

Might serve to simplify trouble shooting at this point.

Well, i'm a little mystified right now. All solder spots are rock solid, and i've checked the circuit front to back multiple times - there's no wiring faults that I can observe. I can only confirm I saw lights in two of the tubes, as the 12ax7 had it's shield on...

Speaking of which - fiddling around with the 12ax7 socket some pins feel a little loose with a tube installed - not so with the other tubes. Solder points are all solid and true, but there's still a bit of play in the pins for some reason.

I did just start up the amp again to observe a bit of colour from the 12AX7, but that little resistor gets awfully hot within a second or two and you can smell it burning... so I killed the amp asap.


The only other thing i'm a bit coy on is the grounding bar running behind the volume pot and inputs... upon install I did scratch the paint off the wire bar and it can't be budged from it's turret, but solder didn't stick to it like thread wire... that's my only point of concern.

Did you take any voltage readings before you plugged in the tubes?

I wouldn't know what voltages i'm supposed to read Telenut - is there a sequence I should be going through?

I wound not worry too much about the loose feeling from the individual tube socket connections. My recent build felt like that too. The Pins are contacting the tube, and the wires are soldered well, so there is a good connection. The play just seems to be how the connections are anchored in the tube socket base. My build sounds fine and works great even though I too can wiggle the tube connections like a loose tooth. No crackling or noise if I wiggle them with a chop stick when my amp is live.

Yeeeeyup...the rectifier pins where the red and yellow wires are connected. The green wires at the lamp terminals. DVM on AC setting, black lead touching the chassis, red lead on the pins. Look at the schematic of the PT for voltage range.

The thing that kills resistors is too much current. So you have to ask yourself - where is that resistor drawing all that current from? That resistor is the NFB loop resistor and it shouldn't have much DC on it at all because the DC component of the current it 'sees' is being supplied through the cathode of the pre-amp driver stage it is connected to (and a pre-amp tube sees 1-2mA tops). So you possibly have the resistor connected to the OT primary (instead of the OT secondary, where it should be) or the power supply or something weird. You must have something mis-wired. Go back and triple-check your wiring.

lol...Yah jumped the gun tubeswell...was getting to that bit after the PT check. He should have around the same value at pin 3 on the 6V6 as the B+ with only the 5Y3 installed. There should be only 1-1.5V on the NFB resistor, so it's getting more volts from somewhere.

Not entirely sure what i'm doing, but i'll go with it. Turned on but on least possible volume setting. BBQ'ed resistor has been snipped out.

Green @ pilot light = 3.62V & 3.61V

At 5Y3
- pin 2 (yellow) = 5.47V
- pin 4 (red) = 344.6V
- pin 6 (red) = 344.3V
- pin 8 (yellow) = 0.003V

Unless i'm mistaken i'm guessing 0.003 is less than ideal :neutral:

Ah...place ech lead on pins 2 and 8....it should read about 5VAC. Looking ok so far, now insert the 5Y3 tube only and measure at the first turret/lead of the biggest filter cap. This is now DC and will be over 400V....be careful.

5.44V when pins 2 and 8 jumped on the 5Y3

471V @ biggest filter cap

Use this layout as a guide as it has approx values you should be getting when all's well.

https://taweber.powweb.com/store/5f1_layout.jpg

5.44V when pins 2 and 8 jumped on the 5Y3

471V @ biggest filter cap

Ok measure pin 3 on the 6V6 and pin 8 on the 5Y3

473 @ pin 3 on 6v6.

First signs of life outta the amp too - heard a faint crackle from the speaker as I landed the multimeter probes.

Just noticed something, the heater wires to the 12AX7....goes to pins 4/5.....and 9?

Yes - I bent the pins at 4 & 5 to pair them together, the other green goes to 9.

Ok how about you take out the switch and wire up the output jack as per Weber drawing with the 8ohm tap. Leave off the ground wire coming off the black wire, OT black wire goes ground to sleeve if you have the three lug jack.

Switch bypassed, extra ground removed (OT ground only). Still dead on the table.

Ok with the all tubes installed take readings where you see values on the Weber layout. If any sign of overheating or burning smells switch off....I assume you have taken the 22k resistor out of the circuit? At the 1.5K resistor side or the output jack side? Not that it matters.
Also measure the voltage at the tip of the output jack, it should be mV

Here's a thread of a guy with the same problem... I wonder if it's the same fix?

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/instruments-amps/212271-5f1-negative-feedback-resistor-burnout.html

The smell is now gone, so maybe the fault has isolated itself. I completely snipped the resistor out so it's gone at both ends. Anyway - I'll get a few voltage readings based on the Weber layout in the meantime.

R6 is the 1.5K?

Readings based on Weber's +/- 20% schematic guide... reading circuit from left to right.

16uF = 340V... I measured 464V
8uF = 275V... "" 452V
8uF = 250V... "" 430V
0.022uF = 150... "" 425V
0.022uF = 150... "" 270V
25uF = 1.5... "" 2.4V

Obviously consistently high readings... but I don't know enough about the circuit to read into it. I'd need a finger to point out the R6 resistor - it's just a label to me.

0.022uF = 150... "" 425V

That is a worry, check the soldering at the 1.5K, 220k and the filter cap and especially the ground.....test for continuity. In fact check all your ground connections. I would also reconnect the red/white wires to the rectifier, that'll bring down your B+ voltage.

I'd need a finger to point out the R6 resistor - it's just a label to me.

If you find the R6 on the schematic, then trace what it connects to, then relate that to the layout, then ... Bob's your uncle! :grin:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7250/7465440292_66a59c3193_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/charisjapan/7465440292/)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7135/7465453558_e502b2e3ee_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/charisjapan/7465453558/)

Thanks for that CharisJ, every day i'm learning something new.

I pointed the finger early in the piece, and i'm pointing it again. I think it's the grounding bar I installed... maybe I didn't scratch enough paint off the foot, but I don't like the way the solder is(n't) sticking to the side - although the bar is stuck and I fed a heap of solder in, it's not a nice looking soldered transition... especially on the further turret.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5414.jpg

Woohoo!! It works! And it's seriously LOUD, no doubt about that! I hope my Weber speaker is a bit more tame as there's no way I can dime it with the current 2x12 ceramics and keep the neighbours off my back, haha!

Turns out the problem was bad grounding on the wire bar. I removed it and gave the ends a good going over with the dremel, and gave it a coat of solder before installing it again.

Now to replace the resistor and I can get cracking on the cab.

Well there you go, nearly always something simple. So what are the voltages now, and if you have no NFB resistor the amp has heaps more gain.

16uF = 340V... I measured 464V... Now 410V
8uF = 275V... "" 452V... 356V
8uF = 250V... "" 430V... 307V
0.022uF = 150... "" 425V... 190V!
0.022uF = 150... "" 270V... 190V
25uF = 1.5... "" 2.4V... 1.6V


A voltage drop across the board. Still damn loud - i'll have to go track down a resistor for the NFB so I can see what the crunchy side of the volume dial sounds like.

It's already the best sounding amp I own - i've been a Line 6 man since forever, but so much more depth and complexity to the tone... plugged into my partscaster Tele this Champ sounds like a boss :cool:

Thanks for your help guys... now time to go get a six pack :smile:

Che,

A round of applause from Japan! You did it!!!

I listened to some of your tunes, now you can Tweedify! :grin:

charisjapan

Way to go, Che!

First thing I did (well OK, second thing) when I woke up this morning was tune in to see if you found the problem. I'm liking your first report on the sounds of this thing. Hope it continues to improve with the NFB repaired

The tech support around this place is awesome!

Mark

Yeah it's a seriously impressive amp if you have a tele or strat at hand... in fact none of my guitars sound 'for the worse' through this - my p90 flying V and Jackson dinky also sound killer.

I've never had an amp that interacts with a guitar's controls so well either - you simply need nothing more than the single control it has.

But, i'm baby sitting my parents tonight and it's late. I'd love to just crank it to 12 but seriously it's just waaay too loud - i've been stuck just on the quietest side of the dial all night... I need that resistor. :lol:

Sorry, I was tied up today. The able Telenut and amp guru tubeswell sure gave great troubleshooting advice. Excellent.

There are few who know the wonder of the venerable 5F1 circuitry in action. Welcome to the club. These little amps have no rival.

It is a truly great feeling to get your first one going (and every one after that!).

About the negative feedback:

Now that you've got your 5F1 up and running without it, you may not want to install that 22k resistor that makes the NFB happen.

It is going to mellow that beast in a way you may not like - especially now after hearing what a 5F1 can do in its wild untamed state.

A guy with a Flying V is not into docile. Am I right?

I advise you to try it and see. ... and then undo it.

.....or make it switchable!! :wink:

I'll have to try that resistor, as right now it ain't no bedroom/practise amp - not even close! It's a gig worthy fire breather :twisted: I don't know how it can only be 5 watts!

Down the track I may even order the kit again so I can do a super neat lasts 1000 years build, and correct a few things from this first attempt i'm not 100% happy with. For example - i'd get the lead dress a little better, i'd only have a single input, and i'd move the fuse to the back of the chassis so the front is kept real simple. I'd also put in a NFB switch for a volume kicker.

But, it will have to wait it's turn - I have a taste for this hobby now... I can guarantee i'll have the parts for a Marshall 1974X in the next 6 months!

I went with swtchable NFB. The only time I turn it on is to demonstrate to mere mortals, the difference it makes. Or when I am trying to teach my kids a new Justin Beiber song.

Congrats Che_G!

Resistor is in - combined with my Weber it should be a nice home amp I can drive all the way, hopefully switching from ceramics to an alnico speaker will drop the volume level a bit too.

Regardless of volume level it definitely sounds bitier without the resistor in. Mr Hackworth I think you're right - the tone does mellow out a bit... in fact the tone gets quite dark if you put a gain pedal in the chain or jump on a humbuckered guitar.

i think an NFB switch is on the cards.

"Break on through to the other side...." :wink:

Switchable NFB is now installed.

I gotta ask - this amp is a perfect match for my tele, but throw a distortion or OD pedal (or a humbuckered guitar) into the signal chain and the top end just disappears from my tone.

How can I remedy this?

Switchable NFB is now installed.

I gotta ask - this amp is a perfect match for my tele, but throw a distortion or OD pedal (or a humbuckered guitar) into the signal chain and the top end just disappears from my tone.

How can I remedy this?

Hehe! With a tone knob! :wink:

or a treble booster (e.g.: Rangemaster)

Hehe! With a tone knob! :wink:

I don't know why but that made me lol

As we know, the tone knob only bleeds off the highs, in the tweed circuit. It does not add anything to the circuit. But hey, it provides one extra, cool knob to turn, and you double your options! And I likes me some options. :grin:

And that folks is why we are all part of the multiple amps club... I digress.

Hehe! With a tone knob! :wink:

D'oh! :roll: :lol:

I'd like to keep my amp with one control... that's kinda the appeal of the amp for mine. I'll wait for my Weber to rock up before I make any mods, maybe a lower wattage speaker might bring out a bit more top end in my humbucker guitars.

If that doesn't work I might consider a 15w OT so there's 'more headroom and clarity' as Triode Store as per claims.


Out of curiosity, if there's any other 5F1 users out there - how well does your amp take to pedals? I have an MXR carbon copy on the way, I just hope it wasn't a waste of money.

D'oh! :roll: :lol:

I'd like to keep my amp with one control... that's kinda the appeal of the amp for mine. I'll wait for my Weber to rock up before I make any mods, maybe a lower wattage speaker might bring out a bit more top end in my humbucker guitars.

If that doesn't work I might consider a 15w OT so there's 'more headroom and clarity' as Triode Store as per claims.


Out of curiosity, if there's any other 5F1 users out there - how well does your amp take to pedals? I have an MXR carbon copy on the way, I just hope it wasn't a waste of money.

Che,

I was being a bit facetious, sorry :wink:

I don't have a 5F1, but a Champ 600 RI, and it takes a Carbon Copy very well, even an MXR GT-OD overdrive, but not my Japanese Crane distortion. And, FWIW, my Blacktop Strat and L-P don't sound that nice, even using coil-splitting. I just never found a setting that allowed any kind of pick attack with humbuckers. I haven't connected pedals to my 5E3 yet, it just doesn't seem to need it! But again humbucker guitars don't seem to like that tweed rawness. I'm still going to try to dial it in when my speaker is looser.

Generally speaking, it seems that these tweed amps just love single-coils, and not even very hot ones! As someone said to me the other day, it's the nature of the beast! My humbucker guitars aound GREAT on my Super Champ HD, even with a little AlNiCo 8" cab, so I don't think it's a magnet thing.

Best to you!

charisjapan

Made a DIY router bench/jig for cutting all my cabinet box joints today. Simple but effective.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5469.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5466.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5451.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5460.jpg

It seems to work quite well, with no errors in the repetition pattern. But progress is on ice for now. I have to track down a longer router bit - this one can't cut deep enough unless you raise it way out of the collet... but that's also a sure fire way to end up in hospital.

I'm going to have to track down the right router bit online, as locally there's very few options for a 1/4" collet.

I think I know why my amp sounds so dark - I think i've accidently had it running at 4Ω.

Is there a way to measure output impedence so I know for certain which side of my Ω switcher is which?

The yellow wire is 4ohm, green is 8ohm....if you have put the switch back in the contact side is opposite to the switch direction. You can check it with your DVM

Beep test saves the day.

So, it's nearly been 4 weeks since I placed my Weber order, and no reply to my email queries sent a week ago. Is this normal operation for them?... I hate waiting.

I mean, the last Weber speaker I bought was around 2005, but I remember the service being quite good... things have changed perhaps?

If yah had gone WGS....it'd be broken in by now :wink:

I learned the hard way also.

So, it's nearly been 4 weeks since I placed my Weber order, and no reply to my email queries sent a week ago. Is this normal operation for them?... I hate waiting.

I mean, the last Weber speaker I bought was around 2005, but I remember the service being quite good... things have changed perhaps?

Sorry to hear 'bout the wait, Che. :cry:

My Japan supplier of Weber stuff had me waiting several months for the 12" Sig. I guess the problem is that they're popular, and sell large quantities to resellers as well as to individuals. Having been in a booming business before, I know what it's like to keep stock of things for customers, while dealing with your own suppliers. I sure hope your order comes in soon.

How's the cab coming?

If you must have Weber, it pays to shop around.....

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251078309726?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_500wt_715

^^^ I did see that option, but wanted the light dope version which I only found listed at their website. I'm just surprised they haven't replied to my emails - I remember recieving fantastic online support last time when I replaced my old Hotrod Deluxe's speaker.

CJ, cabinet making has stalled - i'm offshore for the next two weeks but I hear the right router bit has arrived in the mail. Problem is that the weather is bad so work is at a halt... i'm spending too much time on ebay... and i've began accumulating parts for a 1x12" Princeton Reverb :roll: At this pace it might be finished before my 5F1 :lol:

^^^ I did see that option, but wanted the light dope version which I only found listed at their website. I'm just surprised they haven't replied to my emails - I remember recieving fantastic online support last time when I replaced my old Hotrod Deluxe's speaker.

CJ, cabinet making has stalled - i'm offshore for the next two weeks but I hear the right router bit has arrived in the mail. Problem is that the weather is bad so work is at a halt... i'm spending too much time on ebay... and i've began accumulating parts for a 1x12" Princeton Reverb :roll: At this pace it might be finished before my 5F1 :lol:

... Man, you got bitten BAD! :eek:


(I know the feeling :oops:)

Good to be home... now to attack this project again. The speaker still hasn't arrived after six weeks, so boo to Weber (lesson learnt Telenut! A different company to 5 years ago it seems). But, the longer router bits arrived in the mail so I can finish my cabinet today hopefully. I've had to switch from 12mm to 1/4", so that'll mean slight adjustments to my routing jig.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5498.jpg


A couple of other presents to make sweet tweed noise with also arrived in the mail.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5500.jpg

Just waiting for the clock to tick over so I can head to the hardware store and pick up some timber.

Good to be home... now to attack this project again. The speaker still hasn't arrived after six weeks, so boo to Weber (lesson learnt Telenut! A different company to 5 years ago it seems). But, the longer router bits arrived in the mail so I can finish my cabinet today hopefully. I've had to switch from 12mm to 1/4", so that'll mean slight adjustments to my routing jig.

A couple of other presents to make sweet tweed noise with also arrived in the mail.

Just waiting for the clock to tick over so I can head to the hardware store and pick up some timber.

:cry: Sorry about the speaker, Che. I have a supplier here in Japan that carries some of their stock items, so when they're in stock I get them next day. But when they are 'out of stock' it could be months. The only time I dealt with them directly, they only answered half the questions in my email. The problem is, their prices are good and products have a great reputation, it's sad that service is taking a hit. Hope it gets there soon!

Those bits look pretty similar, so I assume you mean 1/2", right? :neutral: Which would mean a really *tiny* adjusment. Have fun!

I love my MXR pedals, but man, those switches require army boots! Using these in stocking feet is like 'shiatsu' torture. ('shiatsu' is point-pressure massage in Japan... hurst like crazy, but feels great afterward... just like these pedals! :wink:)

charisjapan

Gosh these pedals sound good. Still fiddling with the internal settings on both, but been playing the 5F1 all day (via a 1x12 80W Celestion cab) and can't get enough :smile: I'm going to can the head idea and just keep it as a combo now - it just makes more sense. The option is there to run to an external cabinet if need be.

Correct CJ - my bad, it's a 1/2" router bit I have... a slight tweak from 12mm, but needed nonetheless for tightness and accuracy. I had a few practise runs today and it's producing a nice and tidy finger joint. The corners just need an edge roll-over to look the business.

I had to go to two timber stores to find the 'right' piece of pine for the cabinet... seems it's pretty hard to find dead straight timber. I've also held off cutting the cabinet as i'm baby-sitting my nephew tomorrow - he's only 9 but loves watching me make stuff and helping where he can. It's not the sort of stuff he sees everyday, but he soaks it up and loves every second.



Oh yeah - 8 emails later and Weber finally got back to me today... the speaker is on it's way.

I bit the bullet and went with the combo idea. The box joint jig worked well, with the only routing blemish along the 1 1/4 inch rake on the front... easily fixed, and won't be noticed behind any tolex.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5515.jpg

Kinda have to wait for the speaker at this stage so I can design the baffle cut out... so that's it for another day.

I bit the bullet and went with the combo idea. The box joint jig worked well, with the only routing blemish along the 1 1/4 inch rake on the front... easily fixed, and won't be noticed behind any tolex.

Kinda have to wait for the speaker at this stage so I can design the baffle cut out... so that's it for another day.

Hey, Che!

Looked at your box and my first thought was, "That's an awfully tiny cutout!" Then I remembered you ordered a 12" Weber, and the proportions made sense. :grin:

That is gonna be one wicked loud 5W amp, my friend... I am quite sure that you'll be asked where the amp head for your cab is, all the time!! That or, "Izzat a built-in attenuator knob?" Hehe! It's kinda got me thinking of building a combo and hiding the knob and everything inside the back... stealth amp!

We're all cheering for that speaker to arrive soon! Good on you, man!

Che loving your amp build thread. While you wait for your speaker, maybe you could do a detailed rundown on how you make those jointed cabinets....? The router jig etc

For the life of me I don't get how people make those and I am so keen......!!!

I think I must be missing a key point...

Che loving your amp build thread. While you wait for your speaker, maybe you could do a detailed rundown on how you make those jointed cabinets....? The router jig etc

For the life of me I don't get how people make those and I am so keen......!!!

I think I must be missing a key point...

+1 nice build on the box :shock:,how's that delay pedal sounding?

...maybe you could do a detailed rundown on how you make those jointed cabinets....?

I will do this. Right now it's rainy out so i'll wait for a dry day, but i'll take a heap of pics when it fines up. It seems complicated - but an el cheapo router, the right router bit and a few bits of timber is all you need.

Also, joy of joys - my speaker finally rocked up. I've played about 2 hours through it and the tone is beginning to hit a groove, so it can only get better with a day or two more under my belt. Quite a volume drop from the 2x12 cabinet i've been using also, but that's a good thing.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5542.jpg

Hip Hip Hooray!!

Glad to hear your speaker arrived and making noise for you! My AlNiCo Sig took about 20 hours of play before it settled down. Sounded absolutely horrible with humbuckers, or even hot single coils. Today I even plugged in a couple pedals and my L-P and it's just keeps getting better.

Lately, my pedal-of-choice has been from a rather obscure Japanese company called Crane Tortoise (:?:) I don't like a lot of distortion, but this thing really beefs up the 5E3 without going weird. I can't wait to see what it does for a 5F1/5F2A.

Good for you, Che!! Waiting for clips and new songs!

charisjapan

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5134/5507999823_6a7537f6f5_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/charisjapan/5507999823/)

I've just had a little play through my new amp cabinet. I'm still waiting for the glue to cure, but it's safe to handle so i've installed the chassis and the speaker. Sounds pretty good.

A few pics of the days activities.

Mock assembly with the blank baffle cut and it's a snug fit all around
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5557.jpg

The speaker baffle (on the bottom here) is 12mm ply, secured via a dado in the panels as can be seen.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5569.jpg

A bit of measuring up and I had the baffle cut - here i'm testing the radial jig I made with a bent nail.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5573.jpg

Gotta cut in a pattern to make sure the router doesn't drop.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5580.jpg

Using this glue, no real preference why... I just know the Sikaflex brand.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5590.jpg

I ended up drawing the cab panels tight with countersunk screws, as I only have little g-clamps at hand.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5601.jpg

I think I over-applied the glue... every single joint has been oozing this foamy stuff as it begins to cure.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5610.jpg

This is where i'm at now. Hopefully tomorrow I can have it ready for tolex.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5611-1.jpg

It all went pretty smoothly - the only booboo was putting in the speaker baffle the wrong way around... and my hands are covered in this stinking glue which just will not come off.

Edges now rolled over with a 6mm radius... a larger/softer radius is probably more traditional, but any router bit beyond 6mm jumped to $50-$60 a pop - so 6mm it is... still looks pretty neato.

Now I need to sort out some filler, as can be seen I took a nasty chunk out of the top edge when shaving the front panel to suit the 1" rake. I'm guessing from this point it's like prepping a car for paint - get it right at this level and the top coat (or tolex) will look infinitely better.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_5667.jpg

Tracking my shipping # I think the tweed fabric should arrive today... but we'll see. Did I mention this thing sounds INCREDIBLE!? The speaker and cab have made all the difference. 12 bar rock n roll party at my place :cool:

Edges now rolled over with a 6mm radius... a larger/softer radius is probably more traditional, but any router bit beyond 6mm jumped to $50-$60 a pop - so 6mm it is... still looks pretty neato.

Now I need to sort out some filler, as can be seen I took a nasty chunk out of the top edge when shaving the front panel to suit the 1" rake. I'm guessing from this point it's like prepping a car for paint - get it right at this level and the top coat (or tolex) will look infinitely better.


Tracking my shipping # I think the tweed fabric should arrive today... but we'll see. Did I mention this thing sounds INCREDIBLE!? The speaker and cab have made all the difference. 12 bar rock n roll party at my place :cool:

Looking good, man!!

Yeah, Bondo will fix anything. :wink: Can't wait to see that big box tweeded!

charisjapan

Hey, Che!

This is Triode's layout for your 240V connections:

240 Operation (http://site.triodestore.com/5F140-18027240V.pdf)

"To all Fils" means the green wires twist and go to the lamp, then on to the 'filament' heaters on the power tube and preamp tube.

PT wiring: Connect and insulate the solid brown and black w/white wires. Brown w/white goes to center of fuse. Red w/black goes to white from your wall socket. Black snipped and capped. the two red w/white are alternative 550V (instead of the 'normal' 630V red pair) that go to your rectifier. The red w/ yellow and green w/yellow are center taps that get grounded to the mounting bolt.

Lastly, that funny connector is an insulated mounting strip attached to another one of the PT mounting bolts. You can use this to solder the red w/black and the white from the wall. (don't ground it!)

This might make it easier to interpret:

classictone 40-18027 (http://www.classictone.net/40-18027.pdf)

Hope that helps! (folks in the US are just waking up :wink:)

(also hope I'm not wrong :oops:)

charisjapan

Chris, I've noticed that the ClassicTone schematic for that OT shows no red with black stripe wire, but only the black. I have wired it both ways to see if there's any difference and it seems the volts are the same either way. I have emailed them to query it, but they might take days to get back. Any idea what's going on with those wires?

Chris, I've noticed that the ClassicTone schematic for that OT shows no red with black stripe wire, but only the black. I have wired it both ways to see if there's any difference and it seems the volts are the same either way. I have emailed them to query it, but they might take days to get back. Any idea what's going on with those wires?

Hmmm...

I have the same PT for my AA764 VC build, and the layout is below. I don't know why the schematic is different. :?:

Weird!

charisjapan


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7227/6884877194_9d2561ca04_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/charisjapan/6884877194/)

Got a reply from ClassicTone with a revised spec sheet....

Hello Don,

Our 40-18027 has been revised. The RED/BLK lead is for a thermal cutout. Please see the attached spec sheet that shows the proper connections.

Thank you for your interest in our products. Please contact me if you have any more questions.

Mark Sacketti
V.P. of Engineering

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx217/telenut62/OT-1.jpg

It's the same transformer the Princeton Reverb i'm planning uses too - what a popular little guy!

Speaking of transformers - what effect on the circuit will fitting a larger OT have on my 5F1 (triode store have a 15W alternative to the stock OT)?

I'm kinda bummed out that humbuckered guitars don't really fire through this amp... I'm also wondering if that's just nature of the beast and i'm pushing the proverbial shnit uphill trying to resolve it?

It's the same transformer the Princeton Reverb i'm planning uses too - what a popular little guy!

Speaking of transformers - what effect on the circuit will fitting a larger OT have on my 5F1 (triode store have a 15W alternative to the stock OT)?

I'm kinda bummed out that humbuckered guitars don't really fire through this amp... I'm also wondering if that's just nature of the beast and i'm pushing the proverbial shnit uphill trying to resolve it?

Che,

According to Triode,

"Upgrading to the 40-18031 15W OT will not automatically make your amplifier 15W. If you use this OT with a standard 6V6GT, the headroom and overall bandwidth will increase."

I have this upgraded OT on my BF Vibro Champ, and it does exactly what they claim. However, as a result, some of those delicious crunchy sounds start later (and louder). I'm thinking of adding a tonestack cutout switch and NFB bypass, but these would just give me more gain. So for distortion I'll need a VVR or attenuator.

With your 5F1, you might get some humbucker usability, especially with that gargantuan speaker! Generally-speaking, though, a tonestack would probably help most, whick would turn it into a 5F2, and would be a bit tight in that chassis.

So... for single-coil and humbucker versatility, you'll probabaly just need to build another amp!! :grin:

charisjapan

OK guys I need some help - something is amiss with my amp. I got to try out a Victoria 5112 in Melbourne yesterday, so I plugged a few guitars through it to see how mine stacks up in comparison. With a tele in hand both sound very similar to the top of the dial, but when I grabbed a Zakk Wylde LP with EMGs the Vicky blew mine out of the park. Whilst not the perfect match, the harmonic content was all there. Mine with humbuckers passes no high frequency at all. Even my P90 axe struggles to find some bite. Having also watched a whole bunch of YouTube vids to verify what I should be hearing, something's up.

So, I've either made a booboo in the circuit somewhere or I have a component that needs investigating/replacing.

I'm kinda in a spot now. If it's going on the workbench to get tweaked i might as well make all the changes i want to get it 'just so'. That includes - switching to a 5F2A chassis, redressing the wiring, adding a tone pot, VVR, front NFB switch, and a larger OT to aid headroom. I want to address the poppy/bloomy attack on the bass strings too... add postage and this is likely to cost $200 - $250.

Or, I could put that $250 toward a 5E3 or 6G3, which in retrospect are probably more suited to what I play... hmmm.


Decision time.

The fact he's using a ceramic Eminence speaker is probably the main reason your hearing a difference. What you are getting with the Weber is "vintage" tone. You should have played your amp through the Eminence, that would tell you if your build is lacking anything, as the 5112 is a pretty identical circuit by looking at it.

I'm not so sure, I've put mine through a few cabs to gain perspective and see what its made of - 1960a, an Orange 1x12 closed back cab, via a Vox amp of some kind, and my 2x12 Line6 cab... same peculiarity through all of them.

I wouldn't think speaker choice would account for a total void of treble response via one guitar, yet with a lower impedance guitar the top end is perfectly fine. And on a similar amp treble response is uniform regardless of guitar... sure, my headroom is being challenged, but no more than the next 5F1.

I wonder if those massive filter capacitors are causing this side effect - that's the only difference I can note between mine and other 5F1s... or maybe I cooked more than just that NFB resistor when it went up in smoke...

[edit - bloody iPhone ]

Clip the NFB resistor from the speaker output jack for more gain.

The bigger filter caps should make your amp work better - not worse.

It's been a little while since my last post, but i've resolved my amps problems with Les Pauls - i've sold the Les Paul :razz:

I already have a few mods planned to personalize the amp a little - a 5F-2A chassis is in the mail and i'll migrate the 5F1 circuit into this box. The plan is to mount a VVR control in the spare pot hole - also in the mail. A larger OT like what Woodbutcher is using in his 5F1 is also due to arrive soon. I want a fraction more headroom than I have - I love this amp for it's cleans, but the signal can clip and pop a little when you hammer the wound strings - i'm hoping a little more headroom might help tighten this up. Hopefully this won't make the sweet dirt disappear. The NFB loop is already on a switch, but i'll move that to the front for easier access - with the new chassis I have a bit more space to do so.

Other mods - i've got a few different value bright caps for input 2 and to try to make my amp a bit more humbucker friendly, and also some original value (16/8/8) filter caps... for experimentation if nothing else. And a 1uf cap for the cathode bypass - i've heard that's a good'un if your champ is a little dark.


Hopefully all these tweaks will lead to a little beauty of an amp - not that it isn't already, I just want to sort my needs/wants out to the full. If none of this works i'll put it down to experience and make a 5E3 instead, as I know the tone I want is in that amp... anyway - live and learn.

My poor old 5F1 - it's been raided for parts to finish my other amp, and left on the shelf where it was almost forgotten about. But - enough left over supplies and I can get back to my original plan and build a head for this amp. Then it's time to pull out the soldering iron and install the VVR control and the 15W OT.

Eyeballing the proportions for the cab:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_6531.jpg


By day's end had the cabinet made and enough scraps of tweed to have it covered:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_6563.jpg


Today's job has been to shellac the heck out of the tweed. I was hoping to get it a chocolatey colour, but it seemed to plateau at a very dark caramel looking tone.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_6577.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_6587.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_6594.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_6601.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_6609.jpg


And the words you hope you never have to say - I liked it better this morning. Oh well, them is the breaks... maybe it's meant to be an ugly duckling

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_6634.jpg

So, it's nearly been 4 weeks since I placed my Weber order, and no reply to my email queries sent a week ago. Is this normal operation for them?... I hate waiting.

I mean, the last Weber speaker I bought was around 2005, but I remember the service being quite good... things have changed perhaps?
I ordered components a three weeks ago, got fed up waiting and re-bought locally. Apparently they on en route, in Kokomo! I am in the UK! I won't be ordering from them again, any time soon.

Yeah, it did take a while for the Weber to arrive (and their online customer service is non-existent), but i've had it for a while now and it's a cracking speaker. Well worth the wait.

So I gave the head a rub over with steel wool and it's gotten rid of the shellac glaze, now it looks more like an old boot, which i'm OK with. Limited space means limited layout changes, but i'll manage to squeeze a few mods before I pack the soldering iron away. Dealing with oversize holes is the biggest issue.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_6660.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_6646.jpg


VVR, 15W OT, and the ability to flip between 6V6's, 6L6's, EL34's and any other power tube that'll fit. Not really a 5F1 anymore, but who cares.

So, it's nearly been 4 weeks since I placed my Weber order, and no reply to my email queries sent a week ago. Is this normal operation for them?... I hate waiting.

I mean, the last Weber speaker I bought was around 2005, but I remember the service being quite good... things have changed perhaps?

I never got any communication from them, no tracking info, or e-mail saying it had been shipped. I finally sent them a snippy email and wouldn't you know the thing showed up at my door about an hour later.

The same thing happened on my last order from them, but I was prepaired and it got to me in about the same length of time.

That's some nice wood work there!

So I finally finished the head today - complete with 15W OT and NFB switch on front. The Boothill kit I bought came with so much spare wire I had the opportunity to completely re-run it all and get my lead dress much better than it had been. Thanks Mr Hackworth!

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_6761.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh230/ravenhaller/IMG_6767.jpg


Two things:

(1) I'm yet to work out the on and off positions of the NFB switch, but in position A the amp is a beautiful thing and works a treat - flick the switch to position B and it's uncontrolled feedback as soon as the amp is turned on.
- Can I assume this is a simple fix - switching the red and blue OT wires?
- Maybe I have my NFB wired wrongly, can anybody confirm this?

(2) Amp is much noisier than I remember it being prior to mods. I suspect it's the fact I need to clamp down the grounding lugs a bit harder (I need to source 2x nuts to thread onto the PT legs, but the thread is somewhat unusual and specialist fastener stores will be closed today). In short - does poor grounding lead to a noisy amp?

Most definitely swap the OT secondaries, you'll be in business then.