jangly guitar tips?

I'm trying to learn the jangly indie/pop skills, ala the smiths or George Harrison. Any tips?

Just let your pick dance over the strings and don't worry about what strings you pick and in what order. Just randomly pick at a chord and you get jangle.

And I mean it when I say let your pick dance. If you think of your pick dancing and the strings are the dancefloor, it is an easy thing to do. Light touch and just random picking.

I love jangle. It's all I do, really. You get better at it the more you do it. Just don't think about it. Don't try to concentrate and hit certain strings. That'll screw you up. Just do it. The randomness is what makes it great.

A Vox, Tele and 12 string won't hurt

Just let your pick dance over the strings and don't worry about what strings you pick and in what order. Just randomly pick at a chord and you get jangle.

And I mean it when I say let your pick dance. If you think of your pick dancing and the strings are the dancefloor, it is an easy thing to do. Light touch and just random picking.

I love jangle. It's all I do, really. You get better at it the more you do it. Just don't think about it. Don't try to concentrate and hit certain strings. That'll screw you up. Just do it. The randomness is what makes it great.

That's great advice, my problem is I started on my own, and I started hard, if you catch me. But my problem is I do think too much. I'll try to loosen up from now on.

A Vox, Tele and 12 string won't hurt

Ha already have the AC30 and a good Tele. And I'm waiting for those awesome squire jazzmasters in your picture!

get a Janglebox and a Ric 12 string

I'll try to loosen up from now on.
You have to loosen up. There is not set pattern to follow. That makes everyone tight. Know it is best when it is random and it makes the whole thing easier.
Just every once and a while hit the chord's root (bass) note. That's really the only rule I put in my mind.

Just watch the first 40 seconds of this Johnny Marr video. He is the king of jangle. Here he first shows you how non-janglers play an Am - C - D chord progression. Then at 30 seconds in he shows you those same chords and how much better they sound with jangle. Just look at his picking hand. He dances over the strings, there really is no set pattern to what he does, and he hits the bass/root note every now and then. Obviously, we won't be as great as he is, but the beginning of this video is a perfect showcase for jangle. He shows you just how great jangle picking on simple chord progressions improve the song. The jangling he does at 30 seconds in on this video is pure jangle heaven.

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get a Janglebox and a Ric 12 string

I would but I don't have the 2 grand for the ric.

I don't have the 2 grand for the ric.
12 string Rics aren't that expensive. Don't buy from the big stores. Buy from Ric dealers.

Besides, you don't need a 12 string Ric to jangle. Marr in that video above is using a six string Ric 330 and it is jangling like crazy. Best part is Ric 330s are cheaper than 12 string Rics. Shop at the Ric dealers and you'll be amazed at just how affordable they are. Are Ric 330s cheap enough for a ninth grade kid to buy as his first guitar? No. But they are cheap enough where you say, "Wow, I just got one of the world's great guitars and it didn't put me in the poor house."

Never heard George Harrison described as 'indie' before! :smile:

Never heard George Harrison described as 'indie' before! :smile:

Ya, think about it though, after the Beatles, he became the more obscure of the fab four.

Marr uses a harmonizer and a delay on some of those examples in the posted vid. Those along with the Rick and a Fender amp are pretty key to 'JANGLE' ... a compressor doesn't hurt either. Tele's, Strats, Jazzmasters, etc. can be pretty jangly too (especially with a comp).

As far as what he actually plays, note/chord wise ... if at all possible he'll take a normal barre chord pattern and try to do as much as he can in open chords. Much of the time that means figuring out voicings that aren't necessarily in the open, first position (cowboy chords). For example here's a normal A barre chord: 577655. Here's a 'jangly' A chord still at the fifth fret but with extra sauce: 577600 (it's actually an Aadd9). You can do that exact grip all the way up the neck and it sounds cool. There's tons of grips like that all over the guitar - experiment.
JM also likes to keep a common tone on top. For example a 'G' on top of C G Am Em Bb D and F chords. That 'common tone' adds to the groovy ring.

The other obvious thing is instead of strumming your chords - any chords, barred or open - arpeggiate them. *Marr does play specific and repeated patterns by the way. That stuff is not at all 'random'.

12 string Rics aren't that expensive. Don't buy from the big stores. Buy from Ric dealers.

Besides, you don't need a 12 string Ric to jangle. Marr in that video above is using a six string Ric 330 and it is jangling like crazy. Best part is Ric 330s are cheaper than 12 string Rics. Shop at the Ric dealers and you'll be amazed at just how affordable they are. Are Ric 330s cheap enough for a ninth grade kid to buy as his first guitar? No. But they are cheap enough where you say, "Wow, I just got one of the world's great guitars and it didn't put me in the poor house."

Oh no, trust me, I've always wanted one, I just have to get another job first. Playing out at bars and such just barely pays the rent on a loft!:)

JBmando just caught a voicing mistake in my post.
It's been corrected. Thanks for catching that JB!

I posted 97977x for a Db7#11 the other day, when it should be 98988x. Never post chord shapes without a guitar in your hand!

Check out the GFS Retrotron pickups, especially the Liverpool versions.



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FWIW, Nowhere Man was a Strat. Mucho jangle there.

*Marr does play specific and repeated patterns by the way. That stuff is not at all 'random'.
I disagree about the pattern playing you ascribe to Marr. Is it completely random? No. But is it a repeated pattern over and over and over like Travis picking for instance? No. It is random with specific points that Marr wants to touch upon. Or if you wish to place more weight on the other side, it is specific points that Marr wants to touch upon with randomness thrown in. Either way there is no monotonous set pattern that he implements, a la Travis Picking.

Look, Chet Atkins, Merle Travis, Donovan all had particular set patterns that they followed. But if you listen to their stuff or try to do it like them you will see that the patterns were broke and a randomness was thrown in. That randomness adds to the flavor of any tune. Now you really think Johnny Marr of all people - the guy who never played the same chord shape twice - is going to stick to a rigid pattern?

By the way, you think a harmonizer is used in that video above? I know he kicks something on. I just assumed it was a chorus pedal.

It could be some type of chorus or even a weird reverb/delay combination but I hear an upper octave and he's not playing a 12-string. I say it's a harmonizer or a 'clean' octaver.

*I understand what you mean when you say Marr's random. But it's not totally random. He does 'target' specific notes to fall on certain parts of the bar or phrase. He may not be as rigid as a standard Travis pick pattern usually is but there's purposeful repetition in Marrs patterns.

i say johnny marr knows his fretboard well enough to make what he is doing seem random to you, but he is actually specifically choosing the order of notes in the pattern to achieve a desired effect. much like banjo picking.

I disagree about the pattern playing you ascribe to Marr. Is it completely random? No. But is it a repeated pattern over and over and over like Travis picking for instance? No. It is random with specific points that Marr wants to touch upon. Or if you wish to place more weight on the other side, it is specific points that Marr wants to touch upon with randomness thrown in. Either way there is no monotonous set pattern that he implements, a la Travis Picking.

Look, Chet Atkins, Merle Travis, Donovan all had particular set patterns that they followed. But if you listen to their stuff or try to do it like them you will see that the patterns were broke and a randomness was thrown in. That randomness adds to the flavor of any tune. Now you really think Johnny Marr of all people - the guy who never played the same chord shape twice - is going to stick to a rigid pattern?

By the way, you think a harmonizer is used in that video above? I know he kicks something on. I just assumed it was a chorus pedal.

Keep in mind, even in The Smiths, he used like a phaser/chorus very often.

i say johnny marr knows his fretboard well enough to make what he is doing seem random to you, but he is actually specifically choosing the order of notes in the pattern to achieve a desired effect.


No kidding. Marr is certainly selecting what he wants to play. He's not a blind squirrel out there looking for acorns. He knows exactly what notes he is hitting. He isn't doing it randomly. But by random I mean there is no rigid, monotonous set pattern that is repeated endlessly. When he jangles a chord it is not done according to a strict pattern he discovered from a Mel Bay guitar method music book.

Ever play The Beatles' "Julia" which features John's version of Travis picking? Play it. That is not random at all. Every single guitar note in that song (and that means about five hundred notes) is specific and precise. It is a rigid pattern that is not once deviated form throughout the entire four minute song. You show me a Johnny Marr tune where he does something like that. My God, the beauty of that guy is that he never did the same thing twice. His music breathes. That's because he went for randomness rather than the some Mel Bay rigid music method: upstroke, two downstrokes, three quick upstrokes, and repeat...

Comp.
Never used one of those, but it sounds promising : http://www.janglebox.com/ Endorsed by Mr McGuinn himself...

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No kidding. Marr is certainly selecting what he wants to play. He's not a blind squirrel out there looking for acorns. He knows exactly what notes he is hitting. He isn't doing it randomly. But by random I mean there is no rigid, monotonous set pattern that is repeated endlessly. When he jangles a chord it is not done according to a strict pattern he discovered from a Mel Bay guitar method music book.

Ever play The Beatles' "Julia" which features John's version of Travis picking? Play it. That is not random at all. Every single guitar note in that song (and that means about five hundred notes) is specific and precise. It is a rigid pattern that is not once deviated form throughout the entire four minute song. You show me a Johnny Marr tune where he does something like that. My God, the beauty of that guy is that he never did the same thing twice. His music breathes. That's because he went for randomness rather than the some Mel Bay rigid music method: upstroke, two downstrokes, three quick upstrokes, and repeat...

I agree with Ken. In this clip at least, Marr is playing very specific patterns, not random in the least and the bass notes and treble notes are played very specifically and patterned, albeit where he wants them. Maybe the problem is semantics. I have noticed that there is a new definition of random, which really means unusual or ad-libbed. I had a guy once tell me that he found a missing article in a random closet. Well the closet was no more random than the formula for jet fuel, but he meant "out-of-the way." Marr's picking is most definitely NOT random, at least according to the previously understood definition of "random." Just for fun, check out 'random' in the Urban Dictionary. (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=random&sourceid=Mozilla-search) You'll see what I mean.

I have a Ric and I love it, but I can also get a very Ric sounding tone from a Tele with the bridge pickup and playing through an amp with a bright chimey speaker like a Celestion Blue or a Weber Blue Pup. The Janglebox adds a lot too but even without it, a Tele + Celestion Blue sounds wonderful.

I have noticed that there is a new definition of random, which really means unusual or ad-libbed..

I've noticed that too. 'Random' now meaning something that you're not accustomed too or you're not aware of. Weird ...

Anyway, back to J. Marr. Always cool parts and a great sound. A buddy of mine plays with Morrissey now. If I can remember I'll ask him to show me some of the Smiths parts he has to play.

The picking technique is called cross picking. Bluegrass flatpickers use it as an alternative to travis or hybrid picking....do it on an electric and you got jangle. Its some pretty specific forward and reverse rolls. Nothing random about it unless you lose the beat and need to fake it until it comes around again...

The chord shapes help too. Ringing open strings..cowboy chords, sus2 and sus4 chords, drone notes. Roger McGuinn for instance, played alot of leads on the G strings with the open B and E ringing (Turn Turn Turn is one)...I play alot of stuff with my pinky and ring fingers planted on the 3rd fret of strings one and two...and then use my index and bird fingers to play G, C and D based runs on the bottom four stings while the top two strings ring (The intro to "Chimes of Freedom " by the Byrds is an example of that)

I use the middle pickup selector position on a tele... with a fair amount of top end..maybe some compression..a janglebox, or any other compressor pedal (Jangle box is basically a Dynacomp so dial in what ever you got)...perhaps a little reverb. I mix crosspicking with hybrid picking when I play

The best thing tho...is learn those crosspicking forward and backwards rolls...if you need a book, look for one on basic bluegrass flatpicking...get that crosspicking down and you can make anything jangle...

Thanks for this thread. Good info, and a great Marr link. It wasn't until I bought a guitar and started to learn to play that I realized I loved Jangle rock. Well, I've been listening to it since early REM days, I just didn't know it had a name.

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i think just that intro is very good jangley example and defines a sound that influenced the rock movement in the 60's
turned out to be a #1 hit song too
sorry about the staged concept video lol but it was "modern" for its time
:lol:



what about tom petty he been riding the jingle -jangle wave all along

great thread by the way

i agree george was very independent

maybe happy to let paul and john steal the spotlight

Check out the GFS Retrotron pickups, especially the Liverpool versions.

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Do you suggest having these wired in parallel or series?

A lot of the stuff Marr played with the Smiths made use of a capo to get different open notes.