My Journey to the depths of Paulownia

Okay, some of you guys might remember that a few weeks back I put up a thread about the tonal concerns with Paulownia wood.
Long story short, I decided to give it a try.
A certain supplier called Guitar Friendly Services had a great price on a very nice cherry sunburst with a binding.
I thought why not? So I go through all the actions that are needed to order the guitar body, which had been on back order for two months, and receive the body. I take the body down to a guitar tech that I have worked with for years and he says that the string holes are drilled so that it is impossible to align the bridge with the neck. If I put the bridge on the body the 6th string won't even be on the fretboard.
So I send an email back to Guitar Friendly Services and tell them I am sending the body back due to the obvious error in the body itself.
So we are $70 for the first shipping, $26 to send it back.
The person in Guitar Friendly Services receives the body and then tells me that her luthiers have checked the body out and it is indeed fine.
So she ships me a new body without asking me what I wanted to do. I figured that mistakes happen, I want the guitar and so why make a fuss.
The new body arrives a week later and I again go to my guitar tech and he says that it is no different than the first body and this one is unusable too.
So again, I go to the P.O. and pop out another $25 to send the body back.

I then go home and email Guitar Friendly Services and tell them that I want a refund including the $52 that I spent on postage to return the bodies. They send me a refund for $59.00 along with a message that once again their experts say the body is just fine.

So now, I am out $70 and I still have no body to use to try and build a guitar that won't kill my back.
Since 2008, I can't stand and play all night with a heavier tele, so I have been looking for a lighter body. Around say 2-5Lbs.
So if anybody has the 411 on where to find one, I would really appreciate hearing from you.

In the meantime, if you run across Guitar Friendly Services out there in the ether, Run....don't walk...RUN.

Some thinlines are real light.... And, its not a tele but FWIW the lightest "still real nice" guitar I have owned was a casino style Peerless songbird (w trapeze bridge in red). Only reason I sold it (to my best friend, its his no1) was that I was set on sunburst and a bigsby and I bought an es330. Recommended over epiphone casinos.

My GFS paulowinia strat body is perfect .everything fitted but I did have to drill out for the bridge .I would have kept the tele body and fitted a Wilkingson top loader .Your tech doesnt sound on the ball to me or he would have known about all this .Paulowonia doesnt need string through any way .I have really cheap P wood body (16 quid used) uand its as resonant and loud acoustically as my top notch lightweight ash Fender Japan thinline TN-SPL.I use a top loader bridge .GFS make cheap cheerful bodies not a lazy techs wonder custom.

I built a Paulownia guitar from a guitar fetish body.

The guitar was really thin sounding. The only way I could play it was through the neck pickup which btw sounded awsome. Normal telecaster neck pickups sound dark and muddy, but with this thin sounding body I got the best sounding neck pickup sound ever. In the end I took it apart and used the parts for another project.

O and the bridge screws started stripping after pulling the bridge off and on a few times switching pickups.

I'm gonna try another Paulownia build some day but I will look for a better body than GFS. That guitar felt great to play on, my back loved it.

Get one from GFS for 50 bucks and around 10 or so for shipping.

Do you have pictures? I'd love to see how off the holes are.

Yeah, I'd like to see pictures too. Those bodies are undoubtedly sourced from China, possibly elsewhere in the far east, and I'm sure they are hit-or-miss as they would be regardless of retailer. If I were shopping for a budget body, I'd try to find one that had as few holes as possible pre-drilled, that way I could make sure everything lines up. But in general, I've found that the cheapest you can reliably go on new bodies is Mighty Mite, if you want to be sure that everything is configured to Fender specs.

They have lots of tele bridge options for sale on the GFS sit, and say that you can fit vintage hardware on the body. Do you have a bridge from one of the Fenders that used different spacing? I didn't know there was that kind of problem till I ordered a Callaham bridge for my Strat.

Maybe it would be worth getting a second opinion,unless you have good reason to trust the tech? Two bodies in a row with exactly the same flaw would either suggest GFS are passing off rubbish (hardly good business practice) or the tech is wrong.Having used a paulo body from GFS for my virgin build (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot/307920-paulownia-partscaster.html),I know they are not perfect,but they are workable and make a great guitar.

Good to know about this, as i was contemplating ordering one of their blemished BSB tele bodies. I guess i'll have to think about it a little more. At $37 or so it sounds like an incredible deal, but then the shipping is even more than that, so in the end it's a fair bit to spend just to potentially end up disappointed.

Ric has been there:
http://www.superiorpics.com/pictures2/MentorRD_39042015.jpg


:lol:

Are there unfinished bodies with no holes drilled? I did a P bass build with one of their bodies and it's equal with my main player sound and playability wise. It looks pretty bad upon close inspection because I did all of the finish work and putting it together:P. from 4 feet it looks perfect so that's all that counts:D

I built one (GFS Tele Kit w/Paulownia body) for fun and the learning experience. I like it although like any project it has it's problems, nothing that can't be worked out over time IMO. Here's a link to thread I made recently Tele Kit (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-technical/329982-gfs-tele-kit-bridge-mod-anyone-done-before.html). Since I'm still changing things on this guitar I might be adding to that thread later.

The wood is soft so I went as tight as I could when drilling holes in it. So far so good, as I have been taking it apart often. Recently I checked the scale and measured from the nut to the center of the 12 fret and it read 12 25/32" Multiply by 2 and the scale scale is 25 9/16". So I took my time and tried to tune so that all fretted notes are as close as possible. Seems to work. Since the first string sounds dead I'm gonna try installing a new nut after I file this one to get the clearances as close as possible.

.I would have kept the tele body and fitted a Wilkingson top loader .Your tech doesnt sound on the ball to me or he would have known about all this .


This is what I would have done as well. I have bought a really good top loader bridge for $6 off ebay before.

Maybe it would be worth getting a second opinion,unless you have good reason to trust the tech? Two bodies in a row with exactly the same flaw would either suggest GFS are passing off rubbish (hardly good business practice) or the tech is wrong.Having used a paulo body from GFS for my virgin build (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot/307920-paulownia-partscaster.html),I know they are not perfect,but they are workable and make a great guitar.

Read the original post. The bodies the OP is talking about ARE NOT GFS BODIES.

Google doesn't show anyone selling bodies as "Guitar Friendly Services". Anyone have a link?

Hmmm .... just noticed itallics in original post. Guitar Fetish ?

Okay, a couple things.
Yes it was Guitar Fetish, and I don't have any pics but I have been playing guitar for many, many years and I can say that the string through holes were mis-drilled.
My Guitar tech is a luthier, and has years of experience as well. He set the bridge on the guitar and on both of them the 6th string completely missed the fret board.
I didn't put a top loader on it, because I prefer string through models.

I used the Guitar Friendly Services as a way of going around specifically naming GFS. The first initial thing, oh well, so much for me trying to be clever.

No, I really liked the guitar body, and I guess I will just have to have one made.
I need a very light body,
I guess I was a little confused why they would be so rigid with a customer. I was very disappointed by their customer service skills.

I have looked on the tele body build sites and most of these do not delineate weight.
Anybody have any idea?

I have looked on the tele body build sites and most of these do not delineate weight.
Anybody have any idea?

I weighed the tele kit I got from them and it came to 6 lbs totally assembled unfinished. haven't cut the unfinished headstock either. This stuff is almost like Balsa Wood, remember those little airplanes with the rubber bands? LOL I love how light this thing is, sounds pretty good too IMO.

Guitar Mill in Murfreesboro TN has Paulownia bodies. I have an ash thinline body they made that is extremely light and sounds excellent.

Why don't you just buy a bloody stool and play a REAL Tele?

Check out Mark Rutters , sugar pine bodies , pretty light .

Redwood. Light, resonant, good looking depending on finish.

http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb325/tiskit86/2012%20TDPRI%20Build%20Challenge/DSC_0816.jpg


http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb325/tiskit86/2012%20TDPRI%20Build%20Challenge/DSC_0805.jpg



This was my Challenge guitar, but back surgery in the middle of the contest caused it to be late. I've made two now w/ redwood and just love them.



http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb325/tiskit86/Redwoodcaster/DSC_0793.jpg

Why don't you just buy a bloody stool and play a REAL Tele?


Thank you, I will consider this. Have a great weekend.

I was half way to Googling "Guitar Friendly Services" before I noticed the acronym lol :lol:

Sorry to hear about your bad experience, OP :(

It's cool.
Haven't seen you here before, but welcome.
Where do you play in Toronto?
I have a very good friend up there that plays bass.
Are you familiar with the Anthony Carr End of the World Blues Band?
G9XS85PAp6c&feature

130530

b-uyuxteze4

He works with these guys as well.

I saw an Empress Tele at GC this weekend. Gorgeous looking guitar and very light. I'd guess it was about 6 pounds. Didn't plug it in, but it felt nice and resonated great. So that's another high quality option.

The Rutters suggestion is a good one, or call USA Custom Guitars. They could do a thinline starting with light weight ash. I bet you could get the finished guitar to the 6 pound mark. You could go without f holes so the chambers don't affect the tone as much.

I saw an Empress Tele at GC this weekend. Gorgeous looking guitar and very light. I'd guess it was about 6 pounds. Didn't plug it in, but it felt nice and resonated great. So that's another high quality option...

Empress and Paulownia are the same thing - Paulownia tormentosa for you botanists :shock:

It's cool.
Haven't seen you here before, but welcome.
Where do you play in Toronto?
I have a very good friend up there that plays bass.
Are you familiar with the Anthony Carr End of the World Blues Band?
G9XS85PAp6c&feature

130530

b-uyuxteze4

He works with these guys as well.

Thanks for the welcome!

I mainly play small shows around the Newmarket area, around 40 minutes north of Toronto. I'm between bands now though, so I don't get a chance to play much.

I'm not familiar with too many bands down here and I know even fewer in Toronto. I need to get out a bit more haha. Those guys sound great though

Thanks for the welcome!

I mainly play small shows around the Newmarket area, around 40 minutes north of Toronto. I'm between bands now though, so I don't get a chance to play much.

I'm not familiar with too many bands down here and I know even fewer in Toronto. I need to get out a bit more haha. Those guys sound great though


Well, I hope you like it here. This is a great place to meet people that most players never get the chance with whom to intermingle.
The Vendors here alone are an education. There are also some top players in the world that come here.
So again, Welcome.

My no1 is a Fender Japan Thinline TN-SPL .very light and a wonderful loud warm sound unplugged About 6 lbs all in .It has a humbucker at the neck and two texas specials but the rather odd pickguard is actually easy to mod from a stock pickguard and pick your own pickup selection . :lol:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7060/6863901973_1f811f9e89.jpg

Well, I hope you like it here. This is a great place to meet people that most players never get the chance with whom to intermingle.
The Vendors here alone are an education. There are also some top players in the world that come here.
So again, Welcome.

Yeah, this forum has the nicest and most helpful community I've ever seen! The wealth of knowledge and experience here is astounding.

Thanks again for the welcome :)

Bob Logan was able to build me one with a 1 piece body that weighed in at 6lbs even. It's a little heaveier now as I have a b bender installed.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1221/P4210456.jpg

Paulwina is pretty good looking and shockingly light yet still resonant. I have a dean vendetta that plays awesome. The also make an Evo thats more tele looking. Only roughly in looks. Its a flat radius, humbucker 24 fret tele. But hey its light, dont be picky :)
Shockingly good for <$100. I suppose with a tele pg and bridge you'd be halfway there but still the neck isnt very tele at all.
My only small issue with mine is the slight neck dive. I suspect almost any light body will make the neck seem heavy. The good news is that its so light it takes almost no extra grip in the strap to counteract the problem.

my following comment is neither positive nor negative. it, like gfs, is what it is ...

yeah, gfs offerings can be challenging in a variety of ways. i've assembled many dozens of teles and strats using their asian paulownia bodies. most, not all, are not perfect. there will most likely be finish issues, from uber minor smudgies to outright crazing and hair cracks. there will most likely be misalignments in drillings and routings, mostly minor, some more than minor, but all are quite correctable. some of these bodies are better than others, but all will make valid guitars if you work with them. not for amatuers, anal obsessed, feeble fingered or tool challenged. however, imho, for a cheap $50-$60 a pop, those p-wood bodies sure do make for killer, uber ligtweight, resonant fender-style geetars. ymmv.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/DSC07535.jpg

Rob-
Thanks so much for your post. I appreciate it.
So here's what the bodies I had were lacking. Usually the seam for a two piece body goes through the center of the 3rd and 4th string hole. These had the seam going through the 4th hole. In other words the drilling had been right on the seam of both parts.
So what could I have done to correct this?
We thought we would re-drill, but when we figured where the holes should go, the holes that were already there would create a huge string hole and would not allow for string ferrules to be installed.

If it was my project, I'd try to dowel the holes and drill new ones.

Thanks Rick.
Yeah we thought about that too. The wood is very pliable and we thought that being that some of the dowl would be drilled too, it would not work.

doweling and redrilling is a viable option - i've done that a few times, but mostly not at all needed - it all depends on how far off the bridge and string holes are, in order to achieve a perfect bridge/neck alignment.

if the misalignment is THAT bad, which is very rare, i'll dowel and redrill - it doesn't matter one bit where the body piece seam is located, not at all. i have a huge 34" swing drill press, and that makes drilling holes anywhere on any guitar/bass body uber easy. the doweling usually requires opening the existing string hole a tad larger for best fit to the dowel. the dowel does not go completely through to the string ferrule hole at the guitar's backside. when redrilling, the trick is to drill off at whatever angle it takes to line up the guitar top hole with the existing guitar string ferrule bottom hole. strings don't care what angle they're inserted and it's near impossible to tell the string is going into the ferrule and out of it at a 1/4" or so angle off dead 90 degrees. the new angles are achieved by tilting the drill press table, and doing a trial run on same thickness wood, and "running the drill bits" (meaning, the start hole is done with a sharp, small 1/16" diameter x 6" length). all of this sounds like a lotta complicated, delicate work, but it all goes fairly quickly. tooling is important.

if the misalingment is 1/8" or so, i'll open up the TOP of the string holes by redirecting them at an angle towards the bridge's string holes. just lay down the bridge and align it where it belongs with regards to the neck (you want the 'e' strings to lie parallel to the fingerboard edges), making sure the bridge covers the pickup cavity as best it can, check the string alignment and scale length, mark on top of the guitar where the new string holes need to be, then drill out those marks to connect to the existing string ferrule holes. this works very well, and strings go through the ferrules and up through the bridge with ease. all of this is done with an electric hand drill, no press needed.

as i've said b4, i've assembled many many dozens of these uber cheapo and uber lightweight, good working/sounding tele and strat bodies. not for everyone to deal with, but perfect for me. ymmv.

ps - it's too bad about that tele body of yours, gary - i most likely could have made it work very well for ya.

....

Redwood. Light, resonant, good looking depending on finish.

Ditto on Redwood (or pine), if you need something light. I've found some awesome deals on ebay for figured redwood. Head down to to your local wood yard and get a plank of 8" wide redwood [edit: glue up a 16x17 piece], slap the figured redwood on top, [edit: route to shape and cavities], and you got a guitar with a final weight under 7bs. Chamber it if you need it lighter. It does dent easy so put on a hard finish.

On that note...if your buddy is a luthier, why didn't you just have him build you a body or a guitar?

Thanks spook.
I appreciate it.

I read your post hoping to learn about tonal properties of Pawlonia but thanks for the warning about that vendor!

I just put together a clearance GFS Paulownia tele body. I made a Cardinal Red, 24.75" scale esquire out of it. It weighs five pounds.
A chunk of paint / wood is missing on the backside top edge. The string holes were off (wouldn't line up with those in the bridge). The control cavity wasn't wide enough for pots. And the bridge pickup route was off. My Dremel tool was put to use, and now it works fine. Not perfect, no, but at $27.95 I don't care. It was a fun project, I am pleased with the end result.

I don't care. It was a fun project, I am pleased with the end result.

This was my attitude towards the GFS Tele Kit before I ordered it, but I was pleasantly surprised when I received it. In other words, I was ready to fix any problems I found. Still having fun with this thing. I'm gonna hollow out the body in strategic areas put a top and a back on it (still contemplating wood choice) and then work the headstock into a 4x2 configuration. I think, lol. Still at the drawing board.

And...
...it is done!
http://wadeaminute.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Red-Esquire.png
NED (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-discussion-forum/333987-ned-red-parts-esquire.html)

And...
...it is done!
http://wadeaminute.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Red-Esquire.png
NED (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-discussion-forum/333987-ned-red-parts-esquire.html)

totally tubular awesome. :cool:

I just put together a clearance GFS Paulownia tele body. I made a Cardinal Red, 24.75" scale esquire out of it. It weighs five pounds.
A chunk of paint / wood is missing on the backside top edge. The string holes were off (wouldn't line up with those in the bridge). The control cavity wasn't wide enough for pots. And the bridge pickup route was off. My Dremel tool was put to use, and now it works fine. Not perfect, no, but at $27.95 I don't care. It was a fun project, I am pleased with the end result.


I am glad that you were able to make the situation work. That is a great price, and it sounds as though you had all of the tools to adjust and fix the guitar.
I basically do not have any of the woodworking tools necessary to make the adjustments.
I also, believe that if you are going to sell seconds, or factory mistakes you should make that situation known to the buyer before they purchase.
But there are cats out there like you who have the patience and time to make repairs.
My whole idea is that if you are going to sell it be completely honest and tell the consumer. If I had known that neither body was in ready-to-use condition, I wouldn't have purchased.
Unfortunately, GFS does not make that information available before purchase.
I loved the body, and I really dug the finish. I just couldn't make it work with my situation.

So to fill everybody in on the latest perils of Pauline, I got a refund for the body from GFS, but I was out about $50 on shipping. Oh, well.
I went on ebay and there was a similar body for sale there for $130 $147 total.
I picked it up, and went right away to my guitar guy and he opened the box it came in and this time it had the same problem with the holes. Down by the input jack area the finish was peeling off.
I sent that back and it only cost me $11 for return postage.
So I bought a Candy Apple Red Nashville body, and I going in a completely different direction.
I still would have liked to have the Paulownia body. They are pretty cool.

My GFS paulo esquire
img src=&quot;http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/500/medium/new_toys_022_800x600_.jpg&quot; /&gt;

&lt;img src=&quot;http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/500/esq3.jpg&quot; /&gt;

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/500/esq3.jpg

My paulownia esquire....gfs went together pretty well

I had the same experience with the bodies from GFS. I went through two of them and both had the string holes drilled at an angle that made it impossible to mount a bridge.

Jim

I had the same experience with the bodies from GFS. I went through two of them and both had the string holes drilled at an angle that made it impossible to mount a bridge.

Jim

yes. been there more than a few times with gfs paulie bodies. one can make very good lemonade out of these bodies with some creative, er, modifications. :cool:

yes. been there more than a few times with gfs paulie bodies. one can make very good lemonade out of these bodies with some creative, er, modifications. :cool:

I know that I could have made them work, Rob. But the description on the website says they work with Fender vintage bridges. The made me think that I could just screw on a Fender vintage bridge. Silly me!

I have been having nothing but problems with recent purchases from GFS. I got one of the Wilkinson compensated bridges, I think something was really wrong because no matter what I did, the D and G strings would never intonate. If one was sharp, the other was flat by an equal amount.

Jim

http://www.reddirtguitarworks.com/

These bodies and necks seem reasonable. Has anyone tried these?

Ignore the holes, put a toploader bridge on it, and make do with that. FWIW, I have a paulowina Tele body right here that I bought on eBay. I have it sitting around several months till I get a neck on it and electronics in it and I just don't feel like doing it. I got a whole guitar from who knows where just for the body for around $75. I don't think they are around though..they were NOT quality instruments by any means.

mark