Finding or building the perfect amp

Hello all :-)

I have a tele with a full size PAF in the bridge, and a Lace Hot Gold in the neck, which I use mainly for recording. I've been using a Matamp Minimat 2, which puts out about 4 watts clean (7 when cranked I believe) into a 12" Celestion Blue, but I'm finding that although it does do the 'edge of clean' sound well, it doesn't seem to be a strong enough signal to efficiently push the Celestion, and therefore the sound I'm getting is lacking thickness (for want of a better word).

I'm thinking about buying a basic kit and putting together a 1x12 combo, and what I would like to do is have something that gives me that 'edge of clean/slight breakup' at 15 watts, therefore driving the Celestion properly. I've looked at so many kit options and amp (mainly Fender) permutations that I feel a bit lost at the moment, so I wanted to put my situation 'out there' to see what thoughts you might have :-)

The obvious starting point was the 5E3 circuit, but the breakup appears to come much too early on that. I thought about a 6L6 version, but then that will probably be too much power for the Celestion. I think the closest I have come is a Fender Harvard type amp, but no-one seems to making a idiot-proof kit for that model :-(

I'm not strictly limiting myself to a kit, but I do like the idea of building one. I also may be (and in fact probably am) misunderstanding the whole 'running the speaker efficiently' argument, so please correct me on that one if I'm barking up the wrong tree.

Anyway, that's enough from me. What are the thoughts out there for 15 watts of perfection?

Cheers all ;-)
Gary.

P.S. I'm in Europe, but would be more than happy to source from the US or Canada.

What are the thoughts out there for 15 watts of perfection?

Hey Gary,

I'm in the midst of a 5E3 build, so my opinion may be colored, but... :wink:

I chose this model because it can easily push into overdrive, and that certainly seems to be the popular impression, but from all the reviews and opinions that I have gleaned from, a nice clean is also available up to about the max rating of your 7-Watter. Maybe even a bit more, as your Celestion Blue is pretty efficient for an AlNiCo 15W speaker. I went the opposite direction and got the most inefficient, early-breakup Weber I could find. :grin:

There's a bunch of folks here VERY knowlegeable of this circuit, probably able to help you tweak either side of center to get the 'just right' sound you desire. I think that, at least to me, was the key. I wanted an amp I could get lots of help with! I hate to say 'fool-proof,' but I have to be honest with myself... :smile:

I'm sure more folks will chime in here, as soon as they wake up in the USofA.

Have fun!

charisjapan

Charisjapan,

Thanks for the input :-) I get the feeling that I may well end up with a modded 5e3 to get me what I want. I'm not sure I totally understand the speaker efficiency rule, but I'm hoping someone has a lot of experience with the Celestion and will be able to shed some light on what sort of wattage will best drive it.

Cheers and best of luck with the build ;-)

Gary.

Shameless self promotion. Vid @ end :)
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/shock-brothers-diy-amps/316439-vox-styled-build-thrills-n-chills.html
There's no kit though.
I feel like your describing a vox ac15 or 18 watt Marshall. The vox top boost channel is great. esp. if you made a vox head with an ef86 channel. Super full bodied sound.
Princeton reverbs are popular recording amps too.

I wouldn't limit myself to a lower powered amp. i know it's a trend lately, but you may find it doesn't have enough headroom for a band in a lively room.

I thought about going for something higher powered, but I want to limit myself to a 1x12 (for weight purposes), and as I'd like to stick with the Celestion, I'd be worried about running too much juice through it (or rather, someone else running too much juice through it!). It'll mainly be used for recording, so the Blue seems like a sensible option from that point of view: enough meat, but not too much.

Nice build on that Vox/Marshall/Fender amp :-) Too complicated for me though I reckon! I'm really just a guitar tinkerer, but I do have a mate who has an electrical engineering degree, and he's agreed to help me, so you never know where this'll end...

...you never know where this'll end...

Given your parameters, I think I know. :wink:

I can hook you up with a Harvard in a 5E3 Chassis Kit. I stock 5E3 Kits and Chassis. Currently I am getting parts together for a Harvard in the 5E3 Chassis.

Got NOS 6T6 and 6V6 tubes in stock. Waiting on 7 pin tube sockets coming from Russia.

Plastic plugs - why waste 2 input jacks just to fill holes? Four inputs for a single channel amp is two too many. More parts = more things to go wrong. I'll make turret boards.

I'm liking the idea of the Harvard. Simple. Fewer Parts. Lots of push pull power.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1599/dsc06610a.jpg
By boothillamps (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/boothillamps) at 2012-06-07

Hello all :-)

...

I'm thinking about buying a basic kit and putting together a 1x12 combo, and what I would like to do is have something that gives me that 'edge of clean/slight breakup' at 15 watts, therefore driving the Celestion properly. I've looked at so many kit options and amp (mainly Fender) permutations that I feel a bit lost at the moment, so I wanted to put my situation 'out there' to see what thoughts you might have :-)

The obvious starting point was the 5E3 circuit, but the breakup appears to come much too early on that. I thought about a 6L6 version, but then that will probably be too much power for the Celestion. I think the closest I have come is a Fender Harvard type amp, but no-one seems to making a idiot-proof kit for that model :-(

... I also may be (and in fact probably am) misunderstanding the whole 'running the speaker efficiently' argument, so please correct me on that one if I'm barking up the wrong tree.

Anyway, that's enough from me. What are the thoughts out there for 15 watts of perfection?

Cheers all ;-)
Gary.

P.S. I'm in Europe, but would be more than happy to source from the US or Canada.


First of all, Ampwares says the Harvard is 10 watts and the 5E3 is 15 watts. For what that's worth. (http://ampwares.com/)

I've always believed that the "more power to drive the speaker efficiently" thing is more a matter of "louder drives your ears differently". Hearing is more sensitive to midrange at lower volumes, less so to the lows and highs. Turning up the amp puts your ears in a different frequency response regime.
I don't have personal experience with the Celestion Blue, but from all I've heard it's one of the best choices for the 5E3.

I have a Mission 5E3 I built from a kit. The 5E3's reputation for early breakup comes from the fact that there's so much preamp gain even with a 12AY7 in V1. With the guitar volume up, it's in the touch-sensitve edge-of-dirt zone around 3-3.5 on the amp volume. It doesn't get much louder at higher volume settings, just overdrives harder. Breakup starts at the low end of the volume control's range, but the amp is close to rated power when breakup starts. I usually set the amp volume for the highest overdrive level I will want and roll back the guitar volume to access the clean range.

I have seen different power ratings for the Harvard model to be honest, but the consensus seems to be that it runs cleaner for longer than the 5E3. It may be a fact that I can happily get away with a 5E3 kit, but I'd hate to build it, only to find that it runs too hot, too quick.

I tried a Cornell 18 watter a couple of years ago, and that had no real useable clean volume at all for me. To be honest, I've always been a reverb fan, but I'm finding that I tend to turn it down more and more nowadays, so maybe the more 3D sound of a small tweed will be enough.

I totally agree as far as the loudness thing goes :-) I know there are technical explanations of this, but whenever I set about reading them, my mind switches off pretty quickly.

With regards to the Boothill kit, what sort of instructions do you normally include please? As I said in the intro, I will probably need idiot-proof ones to keep me alive and well :-)

No instructions. I email a layout sheet and links to suppliers and other info. I will build a harvard of sorts here next week with a pictorial, of course. Watch this space.

No doubt, the cleaner sound of the Harvard is in large part attributed to it having fixed bias instead of cathode bias.

With modern transformers, I would think that the Harvard and the 5E3 would be about par in the wattage department.

Obviously, Preamp tubes affect output in a big way.

I built a TC-15 from Trinity amps. It's basically a 15 watt Matchless DC-30. It sounds absolutely incredible and is very touch sensitive, light strumming for clean and then dig in and you get a nice breakup. The TC-15 basically cured my GAS for any new amps.

I built a TC-15 from Trinity ampsz. It's basically a 15 watt Matchless DC-30. It sounds absolutely incredible and is very touch sensitive, light strumming for clean and then dig in and you get a nice breakup. The TC-15 basically cured my GAS for any new amps.

Wow. Checked the specs, yep that would be an epic first build. My Father-in-Law did their 18 watt Marshall thing as a first build. The manual is great, as well as the layout. Great parts too.
@ the op, good luck! Amp technical knowledge will put you in the roughly 1% of players. A good place to be :)

I have looked at that Trinity kit a few times, but it looks like a tricky one for a beginner. I can't find any sound clips of it anywhere, but I can imagine it does sound gorgeous :-)

...and then he had another look and saw some sound clips on the site itself :-) Berk!

Have you checked out ampmakers kits - UK based - might be something in there that appeals? He does a 2 x6V6 12 watt amp.