Care to critique this album?

Not sure if the right place, but after all the guitar building help these forums have been, I wanted to post an album I just released.

The idea was to make a record with a minimal amount of gear. Love it or hate it, that was the aesthetic ideal. So I recorded this with myself and the drummer using 2 mics into a Tascam 388 1/4 reel to reel.

If this is the right place for such a thing, and you have any questions about gear, etc, please ask! And if you despise it, please say so. This was a first ever attempt at recording and I'd like to learn and improve to make the follow up better.

www.thecrookedsaws.bandcamp.com

Man, tell you what..It's late and I can't listen to everything now, but I've heard enough to know that I'm going to make time to give every tune a good listen!

You're definitely in the right forum for issues like this!

Listening to the first song only: It sounds like the vocals and guitar are hitting either the preamp or the computer input pretty hard. There's undesirable grit getting in the way of the music. ... The kick has a lot of click (good for your music), but not much 80-100 Hz that gives it the balls.

I can relate to the music real well, but there's a general "hotness" (at least in certain frequencies) that's sucking the life out of your dynamics. If you bring your master level down 3 dB and that over-grittiness remains, you might want to think about retracking. If you pull the master down and things start to even out, then think about EQ and compression on the tracks that need it.

EQ-wise, I would look for the frequencies where the big guitar and the vocals collide ... maybe dip the guitar at the 2.5-3.5 range where the vocal clatity lives ... dip some low mids on the vocal, do an EQ sweep to identify the mud that's causing the competition with the guitar.

I'm not even close to a pro, so I wrestle with the stuff you're wrestling with all the time. This is all from an outside standpoint of what you want to do vs what you got now. Get serious with the EQ and compression ... lots of guys around here much savvier than me can give you good advice.

One big question would be: what are you using for studio monitors?

Man, tell you what..It's late and I can't listen to everything now, but I've heard enough to know that I'm going to make time to give every tune a good listen!

Hurray!

You're definitely in the right forum for issues like this!

Listening to the first song only: It sounds like the vocals and guitar are hitting either the preamp or the computer input pretty hard. There's undesirable grit getting in the way of the music. ... The kick has a lot of click (good for your music), but not much 80-100 Hz that gives it the balls.

I can relate to the music real well, but there's a general "hotness" (at least in certain frequencies) that's sucking the life out of your dynamics. If you bring your master level down 3 dB and that over-grittiness remains, you might want to think about retracking. If you pull the master down and things start to even out, then think about EQ and compression on the tracks that need it.

EQ-wise, I would look for the frequencies where the big guitar and the vocals collide ... maybe dip the guitar at the 2.5-3.5 range where the vocal clatity lives ... dip some low mids on the vocal, do an EQ sweep to identify the mud that's causing the competition with the guitar.

I'm not even close to a pro, so I wrestle with the stuff you're wrestling with all the time. This is all from an outside standpoint of what you want to do vs what you got now. Get serious with the EQ and compression ... lots of guys around here much savvier than me can give you good advice.

One big question would be: what are you using for studio monitors?

Thanks for all the feedback. But to begin, the album is done and printed. So I'll take to heart all things said for the next album.

Also, the lo-fi nature of it and the limitations of the small tape was embraced. The only compression was from hitting the tape and the eq adjustments were minor - mostly just a matching of curves during mastering to make the tracks similar in overall tone. This was minimalist to the furthest possible extent - and some quality was lost in doing it this way.

I agree with the hotness - this was due to hitting the tape too hard. I'd just heard over and over to hit it hard for tape compression. But the narrow tape and the dbx were things I didn't account for (out of ignorance), so much of that hotness was recorded direct. Def. something I'll pay attention to whenever tracking to narrow tape.

These were one take tracks, played live, with only the occasional vocal overdub, which seriously limited what could be done (and further limited by my naivete).

Monitors were a fairly good pair of M-Audio BX5A's - far from top of the line, but...you know how we poor musicians do! :razz:

Here's my 1st quick impressions:

The web layout to hear the tracks is good. The drums sound good, but they are being hit too hard all the time. Too much overall reverb. To make things in your face, use less reverb. Don't strive for White Stripes-y rock power, that gets old quick. Overloading preamp and input gain comes off as gimmicky. Guitar too distorted. "Miracle Of Loss" is getting more honest for me. The stylistic persona of the vocal comes off to me like Tom Waits/Alice In Chains/Eddie Vedder/Soundgarden etc., does not seem natural.

This genre is not my bag at all, but I think you are capturing the essence of the mood extremely well. The emotion is there. The guitar playing is nice, but I think all the distortion detracts. Be careful of "I saw the devil at the crossroads" type lyrics that are cliche.

Overall, the bulk of the technical stuff is there once you correct the overloading/distortion. Still a nice job and this same technique is employed by artists like Reznor, etc.

I would say, strip off the fx on the guitar, play clean, without drums, focus on melody and natural delivery with vocals so that at all cost you avoid that Seattle thing.

Now, I continually rip myself a new one, and you're much better than me, so take it with a grain of salt.

Only listened to the first tune "low", but really digging how it sounds actually! Lo-fi is good and you've captured a really great performance. Love the breaking up guitar tone and saturated vocals.

Only critiques would be that the vocals are slightly too prominent - just a bit of automation could sort it out, or perhaps a small cut in the guitars around the vocal presence range.

Not a massive fan of the drum sounds personally. Feels like the kick should be more of a thumping pulse rather than a heavy metal click for that style of music. How did you mic the kit? "Recorderman" is a very good drum mic technique with only 2 mics, although gives a very dry sounding kit. You could easily add room back in with reverbs/delays. ORTF overheads might be worth trying next time too.

Good tune!

Rob

The web layout to hear the tracks is good. The drums sound good, but they are being hit too hard all the time. Too much overall reverb. To make things in your face, use less reverb. Don't strive for White Stripes-y rock power, that gets old quick. Overloading preamp and input gain comes off as gimmicky. Guitar too distorted. "Miracle Of Loss" is getting more honest for me. The stylistic persona of the vocal comes off to me like Tom Waits/Alice In Chains/Eddie Vedder/Soundgarden etc., does not seem natural.

Yes, the drums are hit too hard. Like I said above that I took for granted the advice to hit tape hard for drum compression. But the overload wasn't really a Stripes thing (not being a huge fan of the stripes). Just wanted some grit to go along with the general feel. Did the vocals through a dictaphone mic. :razz:

This genre is not my bag at all, but I think you are capturing the essence of the mood extremely well. The emotion is there. The guitar playing is nice, but I think all the distortion detracts. Be careful of "I saw the devil at the crossroads" type lyrics that are cliche.

But I really did see him at the crossroads. He laughed. :lol:

Overall, the bulk of the technical stuff is there once you correct the overloading/distortion. Still a nice job and this same technique is employed by artists like Reznor, etc.

#1 on my notes for the next album: Less distortion.

I would say, strip off the fx on the guitar, play clean, without drums, focus on melody and natural delivery with vocals so that at all cost you avoid that Seattle thing.

I get what your saying but a large part of it is just how I sing. Then there's the question of changing one's natural delivery and whether or not that sounds more artificial than Alice in Chains sings the blues. Ya know?

Now, I continually rip myself a new one, and you're much better than me, so take it with a grain of salt.[/QUOTE]

I feel you. No one is as hard on one's self as oneself, but I sincerely appreciate the feedback!

Only critiques would be that the vocals are slightly too prominent - just a bit of automation could sort it out, or perhaps a small cut in the guitars around the vocal presence range.

Agreed. This was one of the songs where everything was tracked at once, so all mics were bleeding. Prominent vocals was the only real way to make it sounds decent.

Not a massive fan of the drum sounds personally. Feels like the kick should be more of a thumping pulse rather than a heavy metal click for that style of music. How did you mic the kit? "Recorderman" is a very good drum mic technique with only 2 mics, although gives a very dry sounding kit. You could easily add room back in with reverbs/delays. ORTF overheads might be worth trying next time too.

Agreed again. The one major miss in this recording session was hitting the tape too hard with the drums. Had I been using 1" or 2" tape, it would have sounded glorious. Using 1/4" tape, it sounds off. Next time I'll compress to tape and track far below 0.

I miced the kit with one condensor mic out in front of the kick in a place it sounded best. I bounced this one track to a second and eq'd them differently to achieve different sounds.

One time I had spent a couple weeks overdubbing and mixing this one song. I went 45 minutes away to a house that had a piano just so I could have piano. I recorded classical guitar, background Vox, you name it. This was before Pro Tools and all that.

I finally got the mix just right.

I played it for a friend who had a stellar taste in music, much older and more knowledgeable than me.

He said "The piano's way out of tune."

So to make a long story short I don't record any more much. I decided I would try to make my living playing live. For the record, the same guy said: "I don't think that's a very good idea."

Well, fast forward many years later, and that's how I've been making my living. Yes I am incompetent on many levels, depending on when you knew me, but one thing I've learned is: If you make up your mind to do something, nothing can stop you.

Free advice is worth exactly what it costs.

It's great that you can take criticism in good stride, that means you are likely to succeed! The only other advice I can offer is, play fast and fun songs and watch out for the blues. Life's too short! :)

Considering what gear you were using to record everything, methinks you did a helluva job!!! Has that really "down and dirty" lo-fi feel you were going after, and kinda reminds me of the White Stripes-Black Keys meets the Stooges kind of thing. Could it have been done better? Yeah, I'm sure it could have (as others noted), but it does sound good, and in my book, if it sounds good, it IS good.

On my setup, the vocals are sitting pretty well, actually. I'm at the third track atm (Get Up Again) very nice tune!!! Just posted a like on my FB, maybe some of my buddies will get into it to...

Franc Robert

I like it.

The only comment I'd add is that the overall "hotness" probably becomes a bit tough to listen to after a while. Just dipping in for a song or three like I did though - totally works.

Listen to some of the early Motown stuff - a lot of that was compressed and distorted off the charts - but it gives it a real energy.

To put it the other way - if you had recorded this really polished and slick, I don't think it would work at all. So, I like it!

Cheers,
Geoff

When I posted last night (this morning, actually), I'd just come in from a gig and my addled brain skipped over the part about the album already being released and the project being recorded directly to a tape deck — I just jumped straight to the music and sounded off! Sorry for the knee-jerk reaction.

Now, with the minimalist context clear, it all makes more sense ... "slamming" the tape can be a good thing, and I did it all the time in my Tascam cassette recorder days. But I learned the hard way to keep an eye on the meter level — when it pegs, you OD on the tape compression.

It sounds like you had a lot of fun and have learned a lot on your first effort — keep swingin' the hammer!

Considering what gear you were using to record everything, methinks you did a helluva job!!! Has that really "down and dirty" lo-fi feel you were going after, and kinda reminds me of the White Stripes-Black Keys meets the Stooges kind of thing. Could it have been done better? Yeah, I'm sure it could have (as others noted), but it does sound good, and in my book, if it sounds good, it IS good.

On my setup, the vocals are sitting pretty well, actually. I'm at the third track atm (Get Up Again) very nice tune!!! Just posted a like on my FB, maybe some of my buddies will get into it to...

Franc Robert

Thanks Franc! You know, of all the people who've listened to it, you're the first to mention the Stooges as regards the 'vibe'. Finally! I have to remind myself not many people listen to the Stooges. :sad:

I like it.

The only comment I'd add is that the overall "hotness" probably becomes a bit tough to listen to after a while. Just dipping in for a song or three like I did though - totally works.

Listen to some of the early Motown stuff - a lot of that was compressed and distorted off the charts - but it gives it a real energy.

To put it the other way - if you had recorded this really polished and slick, I don't think it would work at all. So, I like it!

Cheers,
Geoff

That's a really interesting point, that it gets tiring to listen to after a while. I feel the same about most modern records that are mastered to be loud as possible. I mastered these songs to about 90's levels and they're still too hot because of how hot they were recorded.

I was actually trying for a Motown feel - well, hoping for one - but this is impossible without compression. I have just started buying compressors. :razz:

Well, the Stooges are from Detroit, does that count as "Motown"? :mrgreen: :lol:

Franc Robert

I love it! Would be nice to "feel" that drum just a bit more. I have listened to half the songs now and the overall quality of this record is fabulous. First effort, say you? Great songs and good arrangements.

If you're going for a Black Keys sound, you nailed it.

If you're going for a Black Keys sound, you nailed it.

Well, to be honest, I was hoping it wouldn't be too similar, but que sera.

I love it! Would be nice to "feel" that drum just a bit more. I have listened to half the songs now and the overall quality of this record is fabulous. First effort, say you? Great songs and good arrangements.

Thank you! Drums will definitely be better on the follow up.

What Condenser mic are you using? Sounds great by the way. Very similar to how I want to record my current album.

What Condenser mic are you using? Sounds great by the way. Very similar to how I want to record my current album.

I honestly don't know the model because it's long worn off from the mic, but it's a black MXL condensor I picked up for $5 or 10 at a garage sale, I think.