Looper pedals - The more I learn, the less I understand !

I'm thinking I may need a looper. It's for live applications with a 3 piece band.
I want it simple. . . I want to be able to play a riff or whatever on stage and have the pedal play that back over and over . . . simple.

But, now I'm hearing about using click tracks on stage so the drummer can be in the same tempo as the loop !? Is that right ?
I thought if I was playing in time with the drummer and recorded the phrase I wanted to loop at that same tempo, then it should play back, and loop, at that tempo ?!

How does it work?
Are some pedals different than others ?

:confused:

Just turn off the click track. Play along to the drummer's groove.

That's what I was hoping to hear. Thanks Warren.

The way it was explained to me, if you don't have the pedal set to a tempo it won't know where the loop finishes to be able to start it again at the right place.

Yeh, they`re different - usually you step on another button to close the loop - some have the tap tempo too that you set right on the spot. He doesn`t always play guitar, but that Andrew Bird does some pretty cool things with them - might give you some ideas. Or you might want to get a sampler.

How would a sampler help the OP?

Would one of the Boss RC pedals do what I want? Just a simple loop of a phrase or riff on the fly ?

Hey Pete, look into the Boss RC-20 XL. The newer versions have come out, so the used prices on these should be dropping.


Great pedal, it will change the way you play guitar

My advice is always to use a looper with two pedals, or the option to plug in a second switch.

That's what I was hoping to hear. Thanks Warren.

The way it was explained to me, if you don't have the pedal set to a tempo it won't know where the loop finishes to be able to start it again at the right place.What you were hoping to hear isn't correct IMO. Setting the looper to a tempo is for quantizing to a click or drum track. If you are playing with a drummer he needs to sync to the looper, or the error will accumulate every loop.

The start and end to a seamless loop is all in the pedal press. Quantize doesn't fix that. Quantize ensures the click and loop stay in sync. If you have no click or tempo then quantize means nothing.

Your drummer will need a clicktrack or a wedge monitor with your loop very audible !

I was prepared for having the guitar fairly prominent in the drummer's monitor ( even if it means running a second, small amp for him to use as he wishes.)
That's how I thought it would work; he plays the tempo, I play the guitar riff to match and then loop it; he continues to hear the loop in his drum "monitor" and keeps locked to that. As long as I can get the hang of hitting the footswitch just right all should be swell ? . . . no?


Thanks for all the replies so far fellas. I've learnt more here in a few posts than I had in all the time I've spent in stores and on product websites.

Thanks

Pete your first paragraph above is the right way to do it... but it is still difficult in reality for this to work. I've tried it and it seems to be hard for a drummer to play along with a loop and not get lost, what with the other stuff going on in the band, even if the drummer has the loop sound loud in a monitor.

But hey, try it and you may find it all works out well - be prepared for quite a bit of trial and error though.

In terms of units I would recommend the digitech Jamman Stereo.

Look forward to hearing how you get on, I am hoping to get the guys I play with in to a loop for background rhythm while I solo (3 piece as well)...

Great idea in theory, but if the band gets a little off from the loop you'll sound horrible. IMO, more trouble than its worth.

Pete your first paragraph above is the right way to do it... but it is still difficult in reality for this to work. I've tried it and it seems to be hard for a drummer to play along with a loop and not get lost, what with the other stuff going on in the band, even if the drummer has the loop sound loud in a monitor.

+1

Every drummer I've played with has had trouble staying in sync with a loop pedal. I haven't figured out how to make it work.

I use loopers mostly for practice, and I have found that it's pretty difficult to "close the loop" seamlessly without using the quantize feature. I can get pretty close, but usually I can still tell it's a little off. I think it would be hard to nail it in a situation with other live performers without using a click. Not impossible, but I bet it would take a lot of practice and becoming one with your looper. It would also depend on the length and number of repeats in the loop...if it is a short one/two bar riff that repeats a couple of times then the synchronization of the loop may not be as critical as say a loop that goes for a substantial length of the song.

I stopped trying to use the looper when there's a drummer unless I use it as a texture maker, but for voice guitar duets it's my handy second guitar player !

Not sure if this will be of any help. But as someone mentioned above, Andrew Bird uses one a lot, maybe even most songs. With a violin and electric guitar. And - here's the interesting thing - his drummer uses one too. I don't know how they pull it off, but it would be worth looking into.

For starters, they are both really talented musicians. Martin Dosh, the drummer, actually uses two loopers live. But he plays one or two keyboards along with drums so maybe one looper is for keyboards. I talked to him about the loopers five years ago and had the chance to watch their soundcheck and talk to him again a couple of weeks ago when they played in Detroit. He's still using the same looping devices. An Akai Headrush and an EHX 2880. Andrew Bird is still using a Line 6 DL-4.

I've never noticed them having timing issues so it can be done. Maybe playing together for years helps.

Thanks guys. This is all useful info. Sounds like it may be more trouble than it's worth.
The three piece thing is coming together a lot better now, so hopefully the looper won't be necessary !

:grin:

Pete, don't give up just yet.



It's nowhere near as much trouble as these guys are making it out to be! I've used a looper with a drummer, I've used a looper with another guitarist using a looper. It's really not that hard. As long as you master when to turn loops on and off, which is basically just accurate timing, it's easy.

Maybe difficulty depends on length of loop, or complexity of the pedal? I use a dual footswitch and find it quite easy to use. And for loop length, that depends on the style of music, but you could just play a measure, loop it, solo over it, and then turn the loop off.

Well we all have different experiences I guess. I'm not BS'ing when I say it's tricky - I've tried it with two different drummers in two different bands and it didn't work out. it CAN be done for sure, but I guess we are just saying that in our experience it was tough.

The trouble is, if it goes wrong it sounds absolutely terrible and the band looks really stupid.

Maybe the answer is to keep it simple to begin with and like everything else practice until you can all do it in your sleep before taking it out to gigs.

The trouble is, if it goes wrong it sounds absolutely terrible and the band looks really stupid.

So true! I have used mine at some solo no-pressure gigs (eg. playing for free at the local swimming club party) and it has caused several train wrecks. My favorite is when I'm in the middle of simple three/four chord song and I think to myself, I'll just record this little progression I'm playing here and then solo over the loop and amaze everyone in attendance!! I step on the looper to start the loop, and it starts playing the last loop from some other song I forgot to erase...LOL!! Of course this is all just because I have never really "become one" with the looper as I think you would really need to for live performances.

So true! I have used mine at some solo no-pressure gigs (eg. playing for free at the local swimming club party) and it has caused several train wrecks. My favorite is when I'm in the middle of simple three/four chord song and I think to myself, I'll just record this little progression I'm playing here and then solo over the loop and amaze everyone in attendance!! I step on the looper to start the loop, and it starts playing the last loop from some other song I forgot to erase...LOL!! Of course this is all just because I have never really "become one" with the looper as I think you would really need to for live performances.

User error is a totally different situation than a band not keeping time with the loop!

I can't see how hard this can be?

From a guitarist in a 3 piece band perspective....

If you can record the rhythm loop from within a song and kick it in and then stop playing while the others continue on with the loop, surely the next step of playing a solo along to the now 4 piece band is possible...?

The song timing hasn't changed, the band is effectively playing along to the rhythm track and not purely the drummer for timing but to a degree this happens anyway.....

Please note, this is all coming from a bedroom looper (but band experienced) guitarist....

I am on the verge of trying out the looper with comapny but am still getting my ****** together...hence the interest in this thread..... :)

Drummers don't usually have to keep timing with something - normally they keep the time, so it's a different skill needed. Also the transition between the loops is rarely 100% accurate. Even if as a guitar player you think you pressed the pedal at the right time there will often be a tiny error, with the loop repeating a fraction too soon or two late and that can be just enough to throw the drummer off tempo.

Ok . . . I'm taking all this in.

Honest. . .

and thanks again for taking the time to respond.

It's going to be a matter of getting hold of one and giving it a go, isn't it.

:grin:

I love my loop pedal (Boss RC 20)

I agree with a previous poster that the 2 pedal version is better than one (ie Boss RC 20 is better than the Boss RC 2.). It is an indispensable practice tool. It's great for playing solo as a 2nd guitar and it's great for band practice.

Personally I find it difficult to play (in a live situation) with a drummer. Not because of issues with the loop, more because of issues with the drummer, as I have also found (as another member stated) that drummers have a hard time following the loop.

If its a question of whether or not you should get a loop pedal I say...absolutely, but don't assume you will use it live.

That being said...there are many examples of great musicians who use loop pedals to great effect, ie Keller Williams (among the many other examples posted previously.) It certainly can be done, it's just difficult.

Please excuse my rant...I took a few shots tonight : P