Noiseless pickups- The pro's & con's?

Ever since buying my Squier CVC tele, I've considered swapping out the stock p-ups for a noiseless variety. I actually like the CVC stock pups alot & single coils in general, but can no longer deal with the noise/hum.:sad: I also purchased a Gotoh modern bridge and tonight will most likely put my order in for a set of Bill Lawrence' L280TN and L48t. This way everything can be installed together at the same time. I realize some folks don't care much for the Hi-Fi'ish sound or softer pick attack noiseless pups have, but are there any other major characteristics I can expect? I'd like to hear from those that DO have noiseless p-ups in they're tele's and DO like them. I'd like to hear your feelings about any other specific characteristics I might not know about & your observations between noiseless vs. single coils, other than the lack of hum & softer pick attack that is:lol:. I gotta admit, I'm pretty dead set on purchasing the Lawrence pickups, just wondering if there might be anything else I'd need to know about noiseless OR.... Bill's L280TN & L48t in general. Thanks

Pros - they're noiseless and BL pickups sound great.

Cons - N/A

Take a look at BL Microcoils. I installed a set and they have become my new favorite Tele pickups.

I realize some folks don't care much for the Hi-Fi'ish sound or softer pick attack noiseless pups have, but are there any other major characteristics I can expect?

Greater fidelity or smoother attack quality is a result of the particular pickup design, not a result of noiseless pickups generally. The L280TN and L48TL are quite nice. If you have a the modern bridge, you won't run into difficulties with any pickup. The general affect of the bridge you may have read about in relation to the L290TL exists for all pickups, not just noiseless, but the L290TL is more sensitive to the bridge's setup because of its "omnidirectional" design that has greater sensitivity to the bridge to help produce classic "Tele twang". The L48TL doesn't have the same sort of design or require as much consideration for the bridge you drop it in.

Regardless, since you have the modern bridge, I'm sure you'll get an awesome tone! Just be sure to adjust your amplifier - the pickups are designed for minimal loses in the highs, which will help bring out the sparkle and sweet highs from your guitar, so you'll likely want to turn down your treble control. If you use a Fender-style amp, it's even worth experimenting with engaging the bright switch to bring out the highs and turning down the treble control so you boost less in the lower upper-mids, for clearer, sweeter, fuller tones. Start with the treble control on 2, boost as needed (perhaps to 3-4 for many people), with the bass somewhere between 3-5 and the mids halfway or above. The pickups have a strong sensitivity to note fundamental, so you don't need as much boost in the bass to get lowend body for the lower strings. If you turn up the mids more, you help give fundamental to the higher strings, which you may find really useful for jazz and distorted tones. It's important to remember that when you roll back your tone control, you're not losing highs until around 4, where coloration from the capacitor comes into play. Experiment with the tone control at a variety of amp settings!

edit: The microcoils are my favorite too, but they're not completely noisefree. The bladed pickups are a real masterpiece though! I really like that smoother attack quality, particularly in the bridge position.

I tried a number of them, and most of them had a sort of 'hi-fi' 'something' in the sound that 'felt' wrong....especially in a band situation.

But I did get along well with the Dimarzio 'Area' line of noiseless pickups.
I play a wide range of music pretty well plugged straight in to an amp and they worked fine...and 'felt' right. You just had to set the heights right.

IMO, of course.

Thanks Punkkitty, Cons= N/A, is a great thing to hear! I haven't looked much into the microcoils but was just recently considering the Keystones due to lowered noise and rave reviews.

Derek, I'm definately looking forward to greater fidelity and clarity. I'm also well aware of the problems associated with ferrous bridges and of the squeal w/ a couple of Bill's noiseless designs. I actually chose the Gotoh Modern bridge more for intonation issues but nice to know I'd be covered regardless. I pretty much figured that my amp's tone stack's would need re-adjusting, even moreso if they accentuate the low end that much. I use plenty of low end so maybe the softer pick attack will also soften a bit of the thump I can sometimes generate.... hehe. Someone just gave me an older (silver stripe?) Peavey Envoy 110 only 2 days ago, I'm really curious to see what I can get coming out of it, as well as my Mustang 2. Though unrelated to this thread, those older Peavey's sure are some nice SS amps. Almost bought a Red Stripe Bandit about 6 months or so ago, now an aquaintance just hands over this ole Peavey!

if you buy the illitch noise reduction back plate system ?.....you can use any single coil pickup you want and still have no hum and not change the tone of the pickups being used..

pros..lets you use any single coil ( much more variety ) and have no hum and it does not change the sound of the pickups.


no more expensive than buying new noisless pickups....probably cheaper..uses nonreverse wound pickups.

cons....????? unknown..

suhr has been using them for a long time.

I pretty much figured that my amp's tone stack's would need re-adjusting, even moreso if they accentuate the low end that much. I use plenty of low end so maybe the softer pick attack will also soften a bit of the thump I can sometimes generate.... hehe.

Just to be clear, their sensitivity to note fundamental is across all strings/notes... it's just that many people use corrective EQ in the lows to get more body to the lower notes, which isn't needed as much with these pickups as with traditional Fender-style pickups. I don't mean to say the pickups accentuate bass or anything like that, just that it's part of the overall consideration for balancing the instrument's tone well. Thump away :D Also, if you'd be interested in getting uppermid coloration for warmer tones in the bridge position, check out the microcoil coloration guide on the wilde-gate (http://guitarsbyfender.yuku.com/topic/10702) and look for the 2H (neck position for the micros) recommendations. There's a lot of versatility available you can't get with conventional pickups!

Thanks Derek, I saved that microcoil coloration guide to favorites, I think you might have sent me that link in a different post awhile back. Well, I guess I'll click on the Wilde website and make it happen. Thanks everyone.

I tried a number of them, and most of them had a sort of 'hi-fi' 'something' in the sound that 'felt' wrong....especially in a band situation.

But I did get along well with the Dimarzio 'Area' line of noiseless pickups.
I play a wide range of music pretty well plugged straight in to an amp and they worked fine...and 'felt' right. You just had to set the heights right.

IMO, of course.

Couldn't agree more....I am totally impressed with the area t's, and I went with the hot version for my bridge.

I do agree with most of the noiseless pickups having a hi-fi'ish sound to them. I can hear it clearly on many noiseless p-ups. But, I suppose in the end it comes down to what your looking for in a pickup and exactly how authentically vintage you want to stay. I knew I didn't want anything high output, so that was a must but I have no problem with that hi/fi sorta vibe and actually like it. Take a listen to Fender's new N3's, that hi/fi vibe is there as well as Bardens, Wilde, Kinman and the Dimarzio Area's also. I've already placed my order for the Lawrence pups, but just out of curiousity, exactly how do you feel the Area T's differ from other noiseless pickups?

Kinman Broadcasters http://www.kinman.com/guitar-pickups/telecaster/broadcaster-set/index.php

No Cons..all pros

Kinman Broadcasters http://www.kinman.com/guitar-pickups/telecaster/broadcaster-set/index.php

No Cons..all pros

....so, stratospheric pricing doesn't count as a "Con?" Of course I'm sure the craftsmanship is stunning,the packaging is posh, value is in the ear of the beholder, etc. YMMV, but for my money they'd better install themselves and play a couple of choruses of "Salt Peanuts" at Bird & Diz tempo as a demo! :lol:

Kinman Broadcasters http://www.kinman.com/guitar-pickups/telecaster/broadcaster-set/index.php

No Cons..all pros

One con: they're expensive. But worth every penny.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of Bill and Becky's pickups. Different strokes for different folks but they're all outstanding in their own way.

I put Keystones in my CVC and I was amazed how much quieter they were than the A V's that came stock and are also in my MIM. Great sounding pickups. I'm sure you'll enjoy yours whichever model you decide on.

i have always felt that the noise factor is part of the Fender sound ... i don't think Jimi Hendrix and Roy Buchanan lost any sleep worrying about pickups ... if you don't like that sound, than try other paths to get what you want ...

i have always felt that the noise factor is part of the Fender sound ... i don't think Jimi Hendrix and Roy Buchanan lost any sleep worrying about pickups ... if you don't like that sound, than try other paths to get what you want ...

They didn't have a choice. Now we do.

I'm really curious about the Kinmans. If they really do nail the single coil tone, then they're worth the extra money. If not, there are cheaper alternatives that also get close.

....so, stratospheric pricing doesn't count as a "Con?" Of course I'm sure the craftsmanship is stunning,the packaging is posh, value is in the ear of the beholder, etc. YMMV, but for my money they'd better install themselves and play a couple of choruses of "Salt Peanuts" at Bird & Diz tempo as a demo! :lol:

$226 USD is stratospheric pricing for two pickups? Lindy Fralin $180 set, Lollar $220 set, Bill Lawrence $130+ set.

Yes, the Kinman craftsmanship is fantastic! The OP was asking about noiseless pickups and these are other options. Do a quick eBay search and there aren't very many for sale, must be a terrible pickup if people are keeping them! I've had them installed on my Tele for fours years and I've had several compliments on the tone and output of them.

IMO they can make a $250 guitar sound like a $1,000+ guitar.

Lindy Fralin $180 set, Lollar $220 set, Bill Lawrence $130+ set.

Bill's equivalent noiseless Tele set is $92, while the low-noise Keystone Tele set is $64.

The decision to go noiseless is one each player makes based on their priorities. I made the decision years ago to go noiseless because it was crucial for certain environments that I played in. I spent quite a bit of time and money searching for noiseless pups that gave me a sound I loved. I've had Bardens (which don't sound exactly like vintage pickups, but they are superb), Lace Sensors (all of which have too much midrange for me and a somewhat garbled top), Holy Grails (extreme note drop-off when bending strings between pole pieces, too strong magnets), Kinman Broadcaster (WAY too much bite; extremely harsh to my ears), various DiMarzio Rail models (also too much midrange and weak top end).

For my purposes, the search ended with the Bill Lawrence L280. They are dead quiet, and they have the perfect balance of tone from deep lows to crystal clear highs. I have one Strat and two Teles (one of which has three pickups), and they are now loaded at each position with the L280. I've tried the L200S and the L290TL, but I sold them and replaced them with the L280 in each case. They sound to me like idealized Strat and Tele pickups. Very genuine single-coil tone. Do they feel just like true single-coils? Not exactly, but they definitely have dynamic range. The bottom line is that when I play one of these guitars, I'm completely satisfied. I NEVER wish I had something more or different. Now I can just play music and stop obsessing over my guitar.

Plus, Bill's pickups are without a doubt the best price/performance ratio available on the market today. An original design hand-made here in America by one of the living legends of guitar electronics that sounds fantastic and is completely noise-free for no more than $52 per pickup? Nothing else comes close to that value.

It's hard to go wrong with BL280's.

There are lots of good options.

I've tried "noiseless" PUs and I like them, but they each have their own tone. I went back to the stock PUs and after some effort, I now have noise-canceled stock Tele PUs -- it can be done and I can't hear any tone difference except the noise is gone. Find posted pics and details here...

https://sites.google.com/site/stringsandfrets/Home/noise-reduction-for-sc-pickups

I've learned to appreciate my L280S's more and more. I like my L200S's a lot, too. Hard to say what's better. It depends on the guitar, etc. The L280's are more versatile. In my guitar, the attack is not in any way lacking. I even chose to tone it down a bit with 0.24" of Aluminum shielding. Our perception of the attack is softened by reducing the upper mids, which is what the Al shielding does. I suppose EQ could achieve the same thing, but I dunno.

I wouldn't say the L280's lack anything regarding actual dynamic range, either. MicroCoils seem to have the widest dynamic range -- more than any pickup I’ve ever tried. It could have to do with the power and resolution of the field around the coil, the ratio of note fundamental to harmonics, voicing, resonances, or whatever else.

It may seem like it, but I don't think "feel" really applies to pickups. I'm pretty sure the magnetic field responds instantly to the string vibrations. There's no power supply lag, or tube/transformer compression/distortion like in an amplifier. Feel is probably more to do with how the amp responds to a pickup's transfer characteristics. The L280's may seem to feel different than the MicroCoils, but it's not because one is a unicoil and the other a stacked design. Note fundamental ratio could definitely affect dynamic range, therefore "feel". If there is some loss in note fundamental ratio in the L280 due to the dual coil design, it's certainly no worse than with any standard unicoil I've ever tried, and probably better than most.

Whatever the tech reason, I've noticed different p/ups make the strings "feel" different. I think thats due to having to change finger pressure to get what the p/up needs to bring out its best tonal response to the string. I know w Lace p/ups I have to touch lighter or its deader sounding (like the strings old). I find that Fender noiseless are similar, but much less so. W a good trad single, harmonic content can be manipulated w fret hand finger pressure and picking strength more so than any noiseless I've tried. Haven't tried Bills yet.

The only noiseless pickups that I felt were hi-fi were EMG-SA strats....couldn't bond with them overall,scooped sterile sound to me.They sat in a drawer for so long I finally sold them.
I currently have/use---
Fender noiseless vintage tele neck
Fender vintage noiseless strat set
DiMarzio stacked noiseless tele bridge

All work good for me,especially in a weird room where the rheostat is king.

Here are the strat stacks--
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=330460&songID=5661203

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=330460&songID=8400946

the 2nd one has a little noise as I was leaning into my digital recorder.....

The decision to go noiseless is one each player makes based on their priorities. I made the decision years ago to go noiseless because it was crucial for certain environments that I played in. I spent quite a bit of time and money searching for noiseless pups that gave me a sound I loved. I've had Bardens (which don't sound exactly like vintage pickups, but they are superb), Lace Sensors (all of which have too much midrange for me and a somewhat garbled top), Holy Grails (extreme note drop-off when bending strings between pole pieces, too strong magnets), Kinman Broadcaster (WAY too much bite; extremely harsh to my ears), various DiMarzio Rail models (also too much midrange and weak top end).

For my purposes, the search ended with the Bill Lawrence L280

I ordered my L280TN & L48t a few days ago and I'm hoping on seeing a standard 2 week turn around time. Understandably, noiseless aren't for everyone and obviously going noiseless & having a Gotoh modern bridge installed, I may loose a bit of the vintage vibe. I do hope to stay within the vintage realm but for some of us, the noise/hum can be too much to bear. I play about a 50/50 split of rock and quieter stuff and like to do some home recording so for me the hum had to go. I've heard plenty of sounclips of the L280TN and liked what I've heard each time so not many worries there. Other than Ron Jeffrey's demo of the rail p-up(L48t), there wasn't a whole lot to go by and I suppose I'm taking a chance but I feel pretty confident that in the end, I'll be satisfied. Let me be clear that while searching for a noiseless pickup, I've done plenty of research, read all the reviews and listened to tons of demo's/soundclips. I don't think I've once come across a "bad" review of Bill's pickups. I've heard some mention that despite the pickup not being exactly what they were looking for, they were still of great quality and "clarity" is used often as a description. Honestly, I won't be able to give any true opinion till they're installed in MY guitar & through MY rig. In the meantime, I'll just wait till they arrive and report back with a review after I have them put in.

Honestly, I won't be able to give any true opinion till they're installed in MY guitar & through MY rig. In the meantime, I'll just wait till they arrive and report back with a review after I have them put in.

You are absolutely correct here. All soundclips and online opinions become meaningless once you have a new set of pickups in your own guitar playing through your own amp. At that point, only your opinion matters. Keep us posted.

Had Kinman Braodcasters for about 10 years now and love them. Not cheap, true but very nice. I guess if there's a downside other than price it's that they are a pinch dark compared to some Tele PU's, you don't get the real top end twangy bite. But as I actively seek to take off that real toppiness Teles sometimes have they suit me perfectly. They twang, just not super twang, plenty of punch and cut through though and genuine Tele sound. Shrug... Depends on your ear as these things always do.

Kristina

Plus, Bill's pickups are without a doubt the best price/performance ratio available on the market today. An original design hand-made here in America by one of the living legends of guitar electronics that sounds fantastic and is completely noise-free for no more than $52 per pickup? Nothing else comes close to that value.

True, and worth repeating.

I got one of these:

http://www.ehx.com/products/hum-debugger

And it works great. I since got away from noiseless pickups. My issue was things in my house (dimmer switched, LV light systems, etc.) that even noiseless pickups could not overcome.

I got one of these:

http://www.ehx.com/products/hum-debugger

And it works great. I since got away from noiseless pickups. My issue was things in my house (dimmer switched, LV light systems, etc.) that even noiseless pickups could not overcome.

This is interesting. Does it have any side effects?

If it does what it claims to do, why are there two settings? It must affect the tone to some extent. If it "scans" for hum, then it is a digital device and requires A/D/A. That's a consideration, but not much of one. It may digitally remove hum and then re-synthesize the harmonics it removed in the guitar tone. That's possible, but I'd be surprised if they got that to work right. Bravo if they did. Otherwise, an analog device would be defying the laws of physics by not affecting the guitar signal as well. Any analog device would just "see" the hum as part of the signal. You would need an algorithm to actively determine hum, as they claim it does.

If it does what it claims to do, why are there two settings? It must affect the tone to some extent. If it "scans" for hum, then it is a digital device and requires A/D/A. That's a consideration, but not much of one. It may digitally remove hum and then re-synthesize the harmonics it removed in the guitar tone. That's possible, but I'd be surprised if they got that to work right. Bravo if they did. Otherwise, an analog device would be defying the laws of physics by not affecting the guitar signal as well. Any analog device would just "see" the hum as part of the signal. You would need an algorithm to actively determine hum, as they claim it does.


If I were doing this analog - which I wouldn't - this is how I'd do it.

One setting: notch filter at 60Hz.
Setting two: notch filter at 50Hz.

Done. Not saying that's how they did it, but it's how I'd do it, and it probably wouldn't affect your guitar tone that much.

You couldn't do this with bass, though. My low B is 31Hz, I think.

Probably is A/D/A though. That's the smart way to do this.

$226 USD is stratospheric pricing for two pickups? Lindy Fralin $180 set, Lollar $220 set, Bill Lawrence $130+ set.

Yes, the Kinman craftsmanship is fantastic! The OP was asking about noiseless pickups and these are other options. Do a quick eBay search and there aren't very many for sale, must be a terrible pickup if people are keeping them! I've had them installed on my Tele for fours years and I've had several compliments on the tone and output of them.

IMO they can make a $250 guitar sound like a $1,000+ guitar.

imho, yes - most (but not all) are waaay overpriced.

a bill lawrence noiseless tele set is $114.50 shipped, and the craftsmanship is fantastic. :mrgreen:

what you charge for your product is typically what the market will bear, branding hype, and possibly also the simple fact that high dollar ticket items, whether worth it or not, makes the buyer think "it must be great, it's more than twice what that other pickup costs".

in the short run, it's all in the ears of the beholder, and it doesn't take lots of money to make really good, inspiring music. :cool:

I have a set of BL L-200's in my Amer Std Tele. Pros = dead quiet in my "noise challenged" house and clubs with neon signs and bad wiring. Cons = you hear yourself better and can't hide behind 60 cycle hum.

in the short run, it's all in the ears of the beholder, and it doesn't take lots of money to make really good, inspiring music. :cool:

No truer words have been said here. I've heard players knock my socks off with SS Peavey amps, and I've heard the opposite; players with primo rigs who didn't know how to get the best out of them, and couldn't play very well to boot. All of these gear decisions are personal, and there are very few absolutes.

If I were doing this analog - which I wouldn't - this is how I'd do it.

One setting: notch filter at 60Hz.
Setting two: notch filter at 50Hz.
You have to remove all the harmonics as well, not just the hum at 50/60 Hz.

That's basically what the Hum Debugger does. It's digital and there are some serious audible artifacts to it. It's ok with a clean amp, but imo as soon as you have a bit of gain the filtering is much more noticeable. You can really hear the 'metallic' sounding delay.

Personally where it counts I go noiseless, or go with something low-ish noise and ride the volume control.

Had Kinman Braodcasters for about 10 years now and love them. Not cheap, true but very nice. I guess if there's a downside other than price it's that they are a pinch dark compared to some Tele PU's, you don't get the real top end twangy bite. But as I actively seek to take off that real toppiness Teles sometimes have they suit me perfectly. They twang, just not super twang, plenty of punch and cut through though and genuine Tele sound. Shrug... Depends on your ear as these things always do.

Kristina

That sounds like how most noiseless pickups are described. If the Kinman's are "a pinch dark" and "just not super twang", how are they better than other noiseless pup choices?

Apparently, my Lawrence pickups are scheduled to arrive in 2-3 days. This post may be more suited to Wilde pickups specificially than noiseless pickups in general, but for anyone interested, I will have received my order in only about a weeks time. Gotta say I'm definately satisfied with the turnaround time, hope all goes as scheduled.

p.s. As far as Kinman's are concerned, this would be the first time I heard them described as a "pinch dark". Everything I've read in the past has pointed towards Kinman's being on the bright side, "ice picky" even. I could be mistaken though.

Just completed a hum cancelling coil for my G&L (strat-like). You *can* get quiet single coil tone. It's not that hard - I did it in less than a day. No change at all to the quack tone and no "altered" tone for the single coils by themselves - just no hum.

Details and pics are at
https://sites.google.com/site/stringsandfrets/Home/noise-reduction-for-sc-pickups

Just completed a hum cancelling coil for my G&L (strat-like). You *can* get quiet single coil tone. It's not that hard - I did it in less than a day. No change at all to the quack tone and no "altered" tone for the single coils by themselves - just no hum.

Details and pics are at


yep, dummies are good and have been around for many decades. NO dummy will be perfect, there ARE tradeoffs for everything, but they do a great job and i use them all the time. your large low resistance dummy coil is a great way to go, but takes a lot of body mods (not at all a bad thing to do!). however, the faster/easier way it to just stick a dummy (from an asian strat, underslung ceramic mag removed, leave in the iron slug poles) under the pickguard (tele) or in the control cavity (strat). if all the pups are the same wind and polarity, a single dummy will work for all. tyically, a strat coil in the 5.5k to 6.5k range works well enuf and frees one of all the electronic mumbo jumbo :cool: a simple spst switch or p/p pot can turn a dummy on/off.

[url=http://frettech.com/dummy/index.html]dummy coils for single coil guitars (https://sites.google.com/site/stringsandfrets/Home/noise-reduction-for-sc-pickups[/url)

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