Does anyone else find tablature to be cumbersome?

When you're looking at guitar tabs, you have to analyze the fret location, fingering position, which string to play on. It seems so tedious. Wouldn't it be simpler to just learn to read music? Whoever invented tablature wasn't doing anybody any favors. Learning to read music is not that difficult and is a good skill for any guitarist to have. When I look at tabs I get befuddled. Anyone that considers themselves a musician should learn to read music. It will be highly rewarding. This is not a rant, but just good advice.

When you're looking at guitar tabs, you have to analyze the fret location, fingering position, which string to play on. It seems so tedious. Wouldn't it be simpler to just learn to read music? Whoever invented tablature wasn't doing anybody any favors. Learning to read music is not that difficult and is a good skill for any guitarist to have. When I look at tabs I get befuddled. Anyone that considers themselves a musician should learn to read music. It will be highly rewarding. This is not a rant, but just good advice.

for you.

Tab has its limitations, that is for sure, just as the nashville system has its limitations... just as notation has limitations...

Whatever gets folks to play and have fun is a good thing if you ask me, tab must be useful, you can find it all over the place and lots of guys have gone from ignorance, to tab, to notation, to being good musicians...

a tool's value is generally as much a statement about the carpenter as it is the tool.

Do you have the tabs for that?

I can't read tabs worth poo but I'm also a lousy sight reader. I can fumble through standard notation. I think tabs can have a place. Tabs attempt to provide information that standard notation typically doesn't I think but there sure seems to be an over reliance on them.

The battle cry of the younger guitarist these days seems to be "Do you have tabs for that?" I don't think the remedy is learning to read standard notation though. I think the solution to the tab epidemic is "Use your friggin' ears to figure it out!!" Tab seems to be more of an excuse for not putting in the time figuring out a song with your ears rather than an excuse for not bothering to learn standard notation.

While I find tab to be combersome becauwse I can read music, I don't entirely agree with your reasoning.

With tab, you DON'T have to analyze either fret position or which strng to play on. That's the point of using tab instead of standard notation in the first place.

Yes, you still may have to figure out fingering, but you have to do the same with standard notation, so there's no advantage there. Additionally, if you have any experience with any sort of box-like playing, most fingering problems really don't exist. You figure out which box a particular passage is in, and maybe what key/mode/whatever, and the fingering becomes obvious.

If you use standard notation, you still have to figure out which string and fret and finger to use, and the choices becomes less obvious.

One advantage of tab is that by specifying fret and string, a particular sound is specified. Since there are several of each note on a fretboard, this is potentially useful information. For example, it's not automatic to use or not use an open string for a particular note. The author may want a particular sound there, and so specifies how that's played.

But I do advocate for being able to read standard notation.

I find tab and standard to have their advantages and disadvantages. One of the problems I have with tab is related to rhythm. It's easier to pick up on the rhythms looking at standard than tabs. On the other hand, it's a killer trying to play a series of 5 or 6 note chords reading from standard, at least for me. I don't have problems with single note lines, but chords give me problems.

TAB actually predates 'standard' notation - viols, lutes, etc.
First year music school students (used to, still do - ?) have to transcribe renaissance lute music into standard notation. *Which means you have to learn the tuning of a particular lute.

It can be useful for students and for anybody who wants to learn exactly 'where Clapton played it' - providing the guy that transcribed it knows where EC played it - ? That's the potential fingering advantage thing.

When I taught I occasionally used it. Mostly for teenagers and adults who I knew just wanted to learn riffs and probably weren't gonna take lessons for more than a year or two.

*The real advantage of standard notation over tab is that when you look at a line of standardly notated music you see and eventually (if you keep at it) hear the contour of the line. You can easily learn to recognize intervals (and chords) with notation. Music notation is actually 'music'. TAB is finger placement on the grid of one particular stringed instrument only. Not that that isn't 'potentially' music but there's an extra step involved if say a piano player needs to learn the intro to Layla (why is a whole 'nother issue :wink:).
The ONLY negative about standard notation is that it's not instrument specific - which is also it's biggest (as well as historic) advantage.

i don't read music, so i can't speak to the advantages of it. but something i think worth thinking about is the fact that before guitar magazines and publishers like hal leonard, cherry lane, etc started publishing tab books, there was very little written music for rock guitar.

Like many people, I learned to read music back in school, but quickly forgot it once school was over. Tab, on the other hand - well, it's almost like you can't forget how to read it, it's so simple.

Much more useful for me (as boneyguy mentioned) are my EARS. I sometimes rely on tabs to help me figure out the harder parts of the song, but I mostly try to rely on my ears to really learn the song.. you know, to memorize it, so that I don't need tabs or anything to play it.

Any visual map (TAB, notation) of an almost exclusively auditory process (music) will be hugely lacking in information about the thing it represents. That map will always leave out far more information than it provides because of the inherent limitations of translating sounds into visual representations.

That's the reason that all forms of notation can easily become cumbersome. A simple event in the realm of sound requires a huge amount of visual symbols to even begin to vaguely represent what actually occured.

Ever tried to describe feelings you're having using words. Words never quite get it right. It's the same type of 'mapping across' problem.


(I'm sorry but my mind always drifts toward making these sorts of connections. I can't help it.)

I find it pretty cumbersome. I also find musical notation cumbersome. Tabs are easier to get to speed on a tune without musical training, but you have to provide information about dynamics and the lengths of notes with your ear. I know some tabs encode this information but the average internet tab is just a series of numbers with no indication of timing.

I thought you were going to say it's cumbersome to scroll through it/ flip through massive pages of tab to learn a song. It's certainly not as efficient as standard notation, because there are so many blank spaces... A short solo could take up several pages of tab.

I like tab to quickly figure out specific riffs or parts of songs, and fill in the rest by ear.

Tab is not a "sight reading" presentation in the way standard notation is, so there is not a comparison. Tab is what it is, and is useful but it does not provided tempo, note length, rests, etc...

I am a good sight reader for saxophone but I have never taken the time to apply that skill to guitar. I find tab very useful to give me a quick start on learning a song.

I never use tab unless I'm stumped as to the technique used by the actual original artist and I'm trying to nail an imitation. I've always relied entirely on listening and usually terrible sheet music, or guitar notation. But I can't sight read anything, just use tab for chord positions, scale positions etc., even then, it's only when time is of the essence, or I'm stumped as to what the guitar is doing.

They are all cumberson if you can't sight read very well.

TAB actually predates 'standard' notation - viols, lutes, etc.

Just what klasaine said. To add to this, TAB was a way for lutest to have a written history of his own pieces for him to review if needed. He could even share it with someone else if needed. Many of the Renaissance period music were originally done on lutes and have been transcribed for the guitar.

As for advantages, a yes and a no.

Reasons for Yes:

1) TAB will put the player into the exact position the creator intended it for. As one knows, passages can be played in different areas on the neck.

2) TAB is simpler to view versus standard notation.

Reasons for No:

1) TAB is restricted to stringed instruments

2) Difficult to transcribe for other instruments

3) Rhythmic figures tougher to dissect as it gets messy on the page.

This is all I can think of right now.

Yes, tab is cumbersome but so is standard notation. They approximate the sound. They also both start to look pretty hideous when you try to notate guitar specific techniques like bends and pinch harmonics. Still, they're the best tools we've developed so far. I'll stick with using both.

I am a good sight reader for saxophone but I have never taken the time to apply that skill to guitar. I find tab very useful to give me a quick start on learning a song.

Sounds just like me.

I think being able to read both well can be of great benefit. www.classtab.org (http://www.classtab.org) has been a great resource for finding free (mostly accurate) classical music tabs.

Also www.acousticfingerstyle.com/ (http://www.acousticfingerstyle.com/) has some very good transcriptions of various finger-style guitar music. Some of the tabs also have standard notation some tabs do not include standard notation. Why limit yourself when there is such a great wealth of free music transcriptions?

tab is amazingly easy to read to me, but it's how I started too so...

Learning standard now, and single lines of eighth notes can be pretty slow going for me... but put that passage in tab and I'll nail it

I started on just tab. it got me playing. But I use more chord charts and standard now. To be honest, I like a mix of tab, chord charts, and standard, just depending on what I'm playing. Funny, at first glance I though this was going to be about tabs for the song Cumbersome as it had just come on the radio.

I agree with the OP that standard notation is better - and this is why I decided finally just to learn to read music, after going through the TAB frustrations.

However, FWIW, I believe tab actually predates any standardized notation system. There were TABs written for the lute and harp such centuries ago. Thus, it is not an invention for rock guitarists.

Give me the dang notes on a page.
Fastest way for me.

Cheers
~ ST

Give me the dang notes on a page.


Cheers
~ ST


notation/ tab

= notes on a neck

I'm happiest reading standard notation, but there at least one situation where TAB seems easier to read, to me: for fingerpicking-style music, especially when it gets syncopated. Writing that in standard notation looks crazy to me, with separate bass, treble and middle parts. And what if you toss in that it's in an open tuning?

I read both. However, when I was teaching, I used Tab a lot. Used the large standard 5 line staff paper. 1st string above the top line, 6th string below the bottom line. Easier to read than with the numbers being bisected by the staff line. So, spaces for strings, not lines. I almost always included a line under the 6th string that was just notes, whole notes quarters, trips, whatever, so the timing was there to read.

I'm still confused by the "easier / harder" comparison of Tab and standard notation. I believe it is impossible to read tab in the way you would read standard notation, so there is not an actual comparison of which to choose if you want to sight read a song.

When you're looking at guitar tabs, you have to analyze the fret location, fingering position, which string to play on. It seems so tedious. Wouldn't it be simpler to just learn to read music? Whoever invented tablature wasn't doing anybody any favors. Learning to read music is not that difficult and is a good skill for any guitarist to have. When I look at tabs I get befuddled. Anyone that considers themselves a musician should learn to read music. It will be highly rewarding. This is not a rant, but just good advice.

On the first 12 frets there are 6 C notes, however there is only one 5th string third fret.
Works for me.
Much less analyzing for my brains
But I agree reading music would definitely be better
Though my favorite is tab with standard notation, use one for note position and one for timing
I guess that's why I have 2 eyes
Wish my ears.......
Sent from my iPad using TDPRI

I learned by TAB. I have to agree that he biggest drawback with TAB is that complex rhthyms are almsot impossible to write. I will disagree with the comment above by sax4blues----- "but it(TAB) does not provided tempo, note length, rests, etc..."

While much of the TAB I see written out these days has no indicators of note duration, rhythm, tempo, rests, etc---hey, they don't even draw the bars any more in a lot of stuff I see; the TAB that I started learning by in the '60's had duration indicators, rests etc. IT is more complicated...especially when things get complex, but it can be done. I am primarily an 'ear' player, but I can stumble along with standard notation or TAB. In both cases, it helps if I have heard the music before....but I will find the 'tune' eventually even if it is unknown to me. Junior high and high school choir helped me learn to read notation a bit....Choir taught me about correct intonation and the harmonics that are created when things are in tune, also. My guitar teacher could play two songs at once...but he couldn't read music at all.

Tab has a place - as Ken points out, it was recognised very early on that with stringed instruments that play polyphonically , that it assists the player to play complex composed and often contrapuntal music. Notation is a superior graphic representation of the music itself - using a simple pitch against time plane , and accomodates an enormous amount of expressive information(check out any orchestral score from the mid 19th century onward)

From the time of the middle ages until the 20th century, notation was the only way Western Art music was recorded - and if you wanted to repeat the music someone had written - you played it yourself - so there was a tacit but essential requirement that you could 'hear and realise' what you were reading - as well as an acceptance that your personal interpretation of the music was part of that exchange. There are musicians who still can hear/imagine the whole sonic picture from an orchestral score - but this skill seems to be on the decline.

But the notated tone has changed through that time - it has become increasingly prescriptive and held up above the 'heard' tone in some conservative academic circles - which is ironic when one considers that the original purpose of any notation was never about that. This is one reason why notation can be cumbersome - the notions of legitimacy in music that is notated, compared to music that is improvised or aurally learned has stigmatised and distorted the role of notation in music for many musicians. Why we humans create these dualities time and time again escapes me!:?:

Tab probably does makes more sense to the legions of guitarists out there - but most of them cant sight read it or hear any of it on its own - the tab just becomes an essential accessory to the music - As Glenn said earlier - in both cases the problem isnt the notation - which was never meant to be so important! Its the ears of the people using it.
Rave over - Im trying to keep it under control -really!:mrgreen:

It seems that many here are unaware of the way guitar music fingering is presented in standard notation. Just like piano players will write fingering numbers aligned with the notes and chords, guitarists write finger numbers too. We also use barre and 1/2 barre notation and circled string numbers to clarify positions. I started on violin and piano and moved over to guitar playing. If I had depended on tab alone I wouldn't have been able to read my Paganini and Bach violin books or the Bach Two Part Inventions, they contain some great exercise material. Jazz guitar books like the series by Barry Galbraith and the early ones by Joe Pass were written in standard notation only.

I often use tablature when it is available, I have no bias against it. It is incorrect to say that tablature is clearer to understand than notation, most well edited editions of classical guitar works contain fingering and string notations, it is very readable and not as cluttered as it may seem when you get used to it.

TABs are for sorting out riffs you already know by ear and have the recording of the song to provide the timing/melody...(cheat sheets)

it isn't "music" on the page... to read the whole song structure... more like specific building plans for small parts of the piece... and gives you instant locations of where it's to be played.....

Anything that helps one be a better player is good. There is a legitimate need for tab but I think I agree with the others who have said that it has come to be used as a shortcut to actually learning how to play the guitar. I believe that a lot of people who ask for tabs are really asking someone who has already done the hard part to impart musical knowledge to them. I get crazy when I see a request for tabs, or help with a song, with a provided link to a YouTube video, and I click the video and the song they want poured into their head is simple! Grab your stinkin' guitar and figure it out. I realize that everyone learns differently and I further realize that it may come fairly easy to me to hear and figure out songs. But criminy! Try a few things! Here's a revelation to some people who want tabs for everything but they don't know what key they are playing in: knowing where to put your fingers in order to play a song does not constitute knowing how to play the guitar.

Anything that helps one be a better player is good. There is a legitimate need for tab but I think I agree with the others who have said that it has come to be used as a shortcut to actually learning how to play the guitar. I believe that a lot of people who ask for tabs are really asking someone who has already done the hard part to impart musical knowledge to them. I get crazy when I see a request for tabs, or help with a song, with a provided link to a YouTube video, and I click the video and the song they want poured into their head is simple! Grab your stinkin' guitar and figure it out. I realize that everyone learns differently and I further realize that it may come fairly easy to me to hear and figure out songs. But criminy! Try a few things! Here's a revelation to some people who want tabs for everything but they don't know what key they are playing in: knowing where to put your fingers in order to play a song does not constitute knowing how to play the guitar.

YouTube is hilarious with those sorts of TAB requests. My favourite is when
the guitarist in the vid is obviously improvising some chords and riffs in order to demo some overdrive pedal and inevitably someone says "Do you have the tabs for that". You can't sit down and write that kind of comedy.:lol:

To put things in perspective, tab is so easy to write when posting on the Internet compared to standard notation, all it takes is a standard font. So tabs are ubiquitous on the web on guitar discussion sites and standard music notation is pretty rare compared to it. Casual self taught players are much more familiar with tab than standard notation so most don't even recognize notes on a page. I agree with the "use your ears" plea, most tab isn't made with learning without hearing first in mind because it is missing accent marks, tempo suggestions, and loudness notation (crescendo, decrescendo, mp, pp, ff, etc.). The trial and error learning of using one's ears to figure out recordings without any notation at all is a valuable part of becoming a skilled musician.

YouTube is hilarious with those sorts of TAB requests. My favourite is when
the guitarist in the vid is obviously improvising some chords and riffs in order to demo some overdrive pedal and inevitably someone says "Do you have the tabs for that". You can't sit down and write that kind of comedy.:lol:

And, it's not the TABS. It's TAB (short for tablature - an engraved tablet or surface - how printing was originally done for anything) as in "do you have TAB for that". The singular is also the plural. If you're gonna use the short cut easy way out at least say it right :twisted::wink:.

TABs are for sorting out riffs you already know by ear and have the recording of the song to provide the timing/melody...(cheat sheets)

it isn't "music" on the page... to read the whole song structure... more like specific building plans for small parts of the piece... and gives you instant locations of where it's to be played.....

this too

With actual tablature, all of the rhythmic elements like note duration, rests, etc. are there. Basically the only difference between standard notation and tablature is how the pitch of the notes is indicated.

Every sheet of tablature that I have ever received as part of any commercially-released instructional material is this way, as is lots of tablature that is available for free on the 'net

That stuff that people call "tab", which is just a bunch of numbers, I don't know what that is, but it sure isn't the tablature that I am familiar with.

As somepne said previously: tab is for when I know how a song should sound...and yes, it can be cumbersome, but I attribute most of that to my own lack of musical skill.

Standard notation is the ticket when I have no idea how a song's s'posed to sound. I didn't grow up in church, I certainly didn't grow up listening to traditional hymns, and some of these songs predate sunlight (it seems) so there is no tab available anyway.

I'm still at the Every Good Boy Does Fine/Face level for standard notation though.

I learned standard notation in choir growing up, and went to school for music and I am currently a choir director in public school. All that being said, I am basically self-taught on guitar and never really thought about it the same as my voice in the sense that I should learn all of the note/fret names, should read the same music, etc. I always used TAB books if I needed to learn something I couldn't figure out by ear, but always felt that it was "cheating", especially once I was a college music major.

However, someone on this forum made it make sense for me. I don't recall who it was, but they described TAB as a more efficient way to write out music for stringed instruments. Now when I say TAB I don't mean the crazy looking stuff you find on most websites these days, I mean the kind that shows rhythmic notation as well - either with standard notation above, or with beams on the numbers to show duration.

I agree with those who say that knowing how to use both standard notation, TAB and your ears is the best approach to learning a song or play anything.

Reasons for No:

1) TAB is restricted to stringed instruments



tablature is also used for horns keyboards drums woodwinds etc

tablature is also used for horns keyboards drums woodwinds etc

Horn use guitar tab? :cool:

tablature is also used for horns keyboards drums woodwinds etc

Drum notation is certainly similar to TAB, but horns/keys/woodwinds?

I've not seen anything like tab on woodwind parts in 30 years of playing and teaching.

tablature is also used for horns keyboards drums woodwinds etc

Luv ya Brew but no, no tab for horns, winds and keys.
There is such a thing as 'fingering charts' that show where a particular note is played on a horn or a keyboard but no music with those charts.
Here's what a woodwind fingering chart looks like :
http://www2.milwaukee.k12.wi.us/lcmsa/Music_Theater/Band/Fingering_Charts/tenor_sax.gif
http://www.reedmusic.com/7102/free/fingering-chart/alto-tenor-saxophone-fingering-chart
Only the most basic beginner music will put any part of the above links on a page - it takes up too much room.
Here's a keyboard fingering chart : http://musiced.about.com/od/lessonsandtips/ss/fingeringcharts_4.htm

*The reason tab is even doable with string instruments is due to the inherent graphic nature of a string instrument - lines with points.

Haven't seen it for woodwinds, either, but I have seen it for brass.

thank you ken i respect you as one of my best music theory and guitar teachers

http://www.horntabs.net/h/

keyboards - basic what key to hit simple
woodwinds they tell which hole to cover or uncover flute - recorder i use this method for novice students

drum tabs are like strokes left right high hat bass drum etc
scores charts and sheet music notation usually has a description of the tempo above the time signature - slow- fast rock etc

tab has limitations as to the duration of the notes and is mostly left up to the player -reader to decode it

i think the best tabs have notation and the tab like at guitar player magazine

I don't care what the web site says. That's not TAB. That's just someone telling you what notes to play in one octave with no note values - barely any information at all. In fact I'm going to state - at the risk of maybe pissing people off - that that is an abomination. If you don't already know the song you can't play it. In fact it makes guitar tab look like calculus.

its basic you fill in the dots not everyone has good drawing skills

play by number

tablature is also used for horns keyboards drums woodwinds etc

While that statement may be true....

"Tablature is a form of musical notation indicating instrument fingering rather than musical pitches."

It wasn't a common practice as is for stringed instruments especially during Renaissance and Baroque eras.

the best method is to train your ear learn to read music and know your theory (& instruments) inside out

tabs have helped me like a metronome to some

and i accept that to very good musicians that read and write notation tabs are a waste of paper

On the first 12 frets there are 6 C notes, however there is only one 5th string third fret.


This is a very good point. Although these notes are not all in the octave and would be written differently. If C4 = sounding middle C, then we have two C3s, three C4s, and one C5 in the first twelve frets.

I have found that if the music was composed by or transcribed from a guitarist, the fingering just sort of pops out at me. But only after having read for a long time. Music not written for the guitar, like melodies and sax solos, does not always sit so well and I have to shift around. Especially if I am playing a lyrical melody. In that case, I usually play up and down the fingerboard on 1-2 strings for timbral consistency.

In the classical music world, music written after the 19th century by composers who don't play guitar just jumps out as being awkward. It doesn't sit well in the hands, especially when using simultaneous notes and notes that are held over. Pierre Boulez, who is still with us, wrote a very well known work for chamber ensemble called Le marteau sans maître. The guitar part uses wide intervals, which was a big part of the composer's language, but they sit beautifully. The part could be sight read, it sits so well. I am not sure if Boulez was a guitarist himself (I suspect he was). If not, he checked the part with a guitarist, a practice that too few composers follow.

I am not against people using tab at all. When I am using new software, I don't read the manual unless I am stymied. And then, I just go to the index and find the one specific answer that I need, then I go back to work. I suspect that many guitarists use tab in a similar way. It provides a very quick answer without demanding a long term commitment of effort. There is nothing wrong with that. On the other hand, regular notation is an excellent tool for all the reasons others have mentioned here. Whether or not to learn it depends on how much theory and arranging one is interested in doing. And, of course, I believe that most guitar teachers should be able to read very, very well. If the student only wants to learn open chords, the teacher can play along by reading the melodies of the songs.

Contrary to popular belief, I am not "anti tab."

I am anti music ignorance. If I gotta ask somebody how to play something, and they say "well, you put your index finger on the 4th fret of the 5th string and then..." some poor bastard's gonna wind up dead.

After years of just playing chords I am working on learning to play properly. Reading notation is slow going but after chord charts when I look at a tab - I want to turn my head sideways like a text smiley face. ;-)

Contrary to popular belief, I am not "anti tab."

I am anti music ignorance. If I gotta ask somebody how to play something, and they say "well, you put your index finger on the 4th fret of the 5th string and then..." some poor bastard's gonna wind up dead.

You jazz guys are so hardcore.

Note to self: never jam with that dude "jazztele"; may kill you

I have actually seen saxophone "tab" - used for illustrating extended techniques mainly I think - but it has no musical continuity - its just fingering charts.

Horn use guitar tab? :cool:
lol
no shirley horn studied classical music and was a good sight reader

http://www.swingmusic.net/Musician_Bio_pics/Shirley_Horn.jpg

jazzy should keep some cheap guitars around for some el kabongs ala the honky tonk kid & less bloodshed in the studio

quote op jonkay1:
does anyone else find tablature to be cumbersome?
poor dick dale everything is upsidedown and backwards
like a musical dyslexia

Contrary to popular belief, I am not "anti tab."

I am anti music ignorance. If I gotta ask somebody how to play something, and they say "well, you put your index finger on the 4th fret of the 5th string and then..." some poor bastard's gonna wind up dead.

I am confused here, if you gotta ask somebody how to play something aren't you the ignorant one?
I am the same but it's when people read ingredients on a container and do not know what each and everyone of these ingredients is, that gets my blood boiling. LOL!

Anyways if you ever ask me a question, i'll be running, left foot forward, right foot forward, left foot.......

Sent from my iPad using TDPRI

Well, if I were lucky enough to be playing with jazztele and he had to ask me "how do you play that one, Wally?", I would reply...."Well, it is in (insert key here) and here are the changes that I use." I would then listen to and watch everything that he did.....I would be hoping that I would get to learn something.

As for dying...that will come soon enough without causing Jazztele to become a part of the equation. (;^)

"Put your little finger,
Put your little finger,
Put your little finger right there!

Put your ring finger,
Put your ring finger,
Put your ring finger right here!"

That is a slow way to learn..... I have to agree with jazztele! But...sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying ...or killing someone!!

(drummers are expected to read music somewhat and follow along)
from vic firth

Some charts are very clear, precise and easy to follow with all necessary musical information included. Other times parts may be nothing more than a napkin sketch (play 8 bars at A, 16 bars at B etc.), a rhythm section lead sheet or a copy of a horn part

While I would never suggest it's not a good idea to learn to read music, how much popular guitar music is available transcribed in standard notation?

The fact is, if you want to learn how to play Stairway to Heaven and you search for it in a written out version, you're 100 times more likely to find it in TAB than standard.

The good news is that we really don't have to learn to "read" TAB, really, what's there to learn? It's pretty self revealing.

While I would never suggest it's not a good idea to learn to read music, how much popular guitar music is available transcribed in standard notation?

Theres more guitar music TAB for sure. But think of how much more music there is to learn and enjoy from reading standard notation.

That's just because you're thinkin' guitar music. All that $h1t's written out in standard for any and all other instruments. Ex; http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtdFPE.asp?ppn=MN0020073
And this; http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/Stairway-to-Heaven-1st-B-flat-Trumpet/19356902#
And all these; http://www.google.com/search?q=stairway+to+heaven+lead+sheet&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6AU&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=qVfAT8OdD6as2wWrs6xo&ved=0CHYQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=606

ken you knew the kazoo belonged to the woodwind family all along didn't you
!

Contrary to popular belief, I am not "anti tab."

I am anti music ignorance. If I gotta ask somebody how to play something, and they say "well, you put your index finger on the 4th fret of the 5th string and then..." some poor bastard's gonna wind up dead.

git sum JEFF! hell yeah!

Stairway To Heaven is a song most people learn by ear, I would be surprised to find out that any intermediate skill level guitarist who gave it a concerted effort couldn't learn it entirely by ear. It's a great song but there are no complex "hard to hear" parts in it. Most skilled blues and rock cover band guitarists learn their entire set lists by ear, never once looking for any style of written music. You get used to working from mix tapes or CDs when learning for cover bands, you won't be playing with music stands at a rock or blues nightclub much if at all, so good alert ears are one of the best assets musicians work with. Your ability to retain musical phrases in your memory grows when you challenge yourself not to write it down at all. The form, length, structure, style, and dynamics of songs are all things that can be aided by playing along with recordings directly without stopping to find someone else's transcription first.

Not to mention that, at least when I was teaching guitar, every TAB of Stairway that kid brought in was wrong in more than a few places.

I am confused here, if you gotta ask somebody how to play something aren't you the ignorant one?
I am the same but it's when people read ingredients on a container and do not know what each and everyone of these ingredients is, that gets my blood boiling. LOL!

Anyways if you ever ask me a question, i'll be running, left foot forward, right foot forward, left foot.......

Sent from my iPad using TDPRI

Now...I'm not really gonna kill anybody...maybe just break a few fingers. ..

I should probably ammend that to "willful musical ignorance." Because you're certainly right, i'd be the ignorant one there...that word has such a negative connotation, but it means something pretty simple....so yeah..."willful ignorance" is what grinds my gears...

Really all kidding aside, if we all just took the time to get the notes down on the fretboard and understand how to construct basic chord types (major, minor, 7ths, maybe a few others) we could all in theory meet, tell each other the progression of a tune, and be jamming in a matter of minutes.
No "tabs"....

That'd be pretty cool.

Which reminds me of my other musical pet peeve...when you jam with someone and you try to tell them the chords, and they say "it's cool man, I play by ear." Seems 99 times out of 100 their ear can't hear chords, and for the next ten minutes I accompany them as they launch into a full exploration of whatever pentatonic scale kinda fits the tune...

I should shut up now.

Which reminds me of my other musical pet peeve...when you jam with someone and you try to tell them the chords, and they say "it's cool man, I play by ear." Seems 99 times out of 100 their ear can't hear chords, and for the next ten minutes I accompany them as they launch into a full exploration of whatever pentatonic scale kinda fits the tune...

I should shut up now.

Man, I've been in that situation way too often!

This is just my perspective, having just picked up the guitar two years ago. I had no knowledge of music notation or of tab when I started. So with an empty slate, access to youtube, and loads of song charts etc., it is tab that got my playing my first songs that were more than just chord strumming.

Now two years later, I own Guitar Pro 6 and use it extensively to learn new songs. I follow the tab, see the corresponding music notation and hear the music. This way I have learned enough sight reading to sort of tell how the duration of notes goes and the tab shows me where to play.

Maybe tab is a crutch. Maybe watching youtube videos of "place this finger here" is maddening. For myself though, as a beginner in his 60's, these teaching aids of gotten me playing a lot sooner than can I can imagine I would have without them.

I use tabs as a starting point to help get me in the right ballpark. Then I either figure out the rest or make it up as I go along.

I think I've looked at maybe 5 Tab written tunes in my entire playing life.
Heck they weren't even available for the first 25 years, at least that I ever saw.
My son introduced me to tabs and he used them all the time, but he also took guitar lessons for about 6 years, so he could read also.

He only used tabs for about his first couple years, then probably never looked at them again. For me they are a waste of paper as I can learn most any rock or country standard in minutes by ear. My ears our like greased lightening next to how long it would take me to read a measure of tab. I got used to almost all music books written were almost a complete waste of time for guitar. Heck sometimes they wouldn't even get the key right.

That said, if someone throws down some guitar sheet music (or charts) in front of me, even though I can't really sight read, it's more usefull than tab for me. Just give me the key and time and let me hear it once through is usually fine. If you don't tell me the key I'll know it just about instantly anyway within the first few notes.

Tab is crippling to me-lol

I can read tab and standard notation, but try to avoid it, since both are a bit cumbersome, and don't help with with memorizing.

I began playing in the mid-60s, and back then, learned best by putting on a record (usually a 45) and then dropping and re-dropping the needle until I could learn the lick, chord, etc.

Today I have a CD player that does the same thing (with a remote rather than a needle), and it's my favorite way to steal, I mean learn music. :lol:

learned best by putting on a record (usually a 45) and then dropping and re-dropping the needle until I could learn the lick, chord, etc.

Today I have a CD player that does the same thing (with a remote rather than a needle), and it's my favorite way to steal, I mean learn music. :lol:

That is still the best way BY FAR to learn a song/solo/riffs/lines/etc. You get the context (hopefully). Which then facilitates you being able to use it somewhere else - which is why we 'steal' in the first place :wink:. At least that's why I do it.

Guitar Player started a feature called Swap A Riff in their first issues in the late 60s. They were in regular and tab notation.

I don't think it has been mentioned in this thread, but tab seems pretty internet friendly, while regular notation needs to be a graphic. This will probably help perpetuate tab, but so it goes.

What I always find puzzling is how many people start to learn the guitar without learning to read. They make it sound so foreign and difficult, while any 5th grade kid starts reading right away on clarinet or whatever. With guitar, you have 50 year old guys avoiding learning how to read and focusing on strumming a few chords. Where's the challenge, the fun?

Our family rented a piano when I was in 5th grade. The next door neighbor came over and wrote out the notes on the staff and placed the paper above the keys. The next morning, I went to the piano and literally learned how to read and play a song in 30 minutes, to wake my parents up with. It is not hard. Lines, spaces, and 4 or 5 rhythmic values.

A Guitar Player interview with Merle Travis in the 70s wrote that when asked if he read music, he drew a staff and wrote a melody in it. "Like that?" he said.

I began playing in the mid-60s, and back then, learned best by putting on a record (usually a 45) and then dropping and re-dropping the needle until I could learn the lick, chord, etc.

Today I have a CD player that does the same thing (with a remote rather than a needle), and it's my favorite way to steal, I mean learn music. :lol:

For me it was the 70's with needle and the record. Did that with the CD and now either with mp3's or an mp3 loaded into my iRig where I can repeat just that passage and slow it down if I need too.