Pick-Up Winding for People Who Aren't Interested in Pick-Up Winding?

I don't really want to get into pick-up winding. :razz: Frankly, I don't see myself saving much money or ending up with something much better than GFS offers.

But I want to compete in the build challenge next year, and word around the Depot is you'll have to wind yer own PUs. :neutral: Okay, fair enough. And I know that there's a possibility that, having made one, I'll be totally jazzed and hooked on it and I'll want to wind pick-ups for every member of my family--but I doubt it. So I want to find the simplest, cheapest, quick-and-dirty way to do a one-off (or two-off) wind, with the least possible investment in tools/jig-building. I don't even have a multi-meter at this point....

Short of screwing the bobbin to a table and jogging around it for 4 hours, what's the simplest way to wind a pick-up?

I know nothing about it, but I think i've seen people say they use a sowing machine??

A drill, and a multimeter are just about as bare bones as you can get. Just take a small 1"x4" piece of plywood or particle board, put a bolt through it, chuck it up in your drill, and wind to resistance. Look on youtube for some ideas. Oh, and I'm of the opinion that you can definately wind a much better sounding pu than you can get from GF, or many other outlets. :)

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A drill, and a multimeter are just about as bare bones as you can get. Just take a small 1"x4" piece of plywood or particle board, put a bolt through it, chuck it up in your drill, and wind to resistance. Look on youtube for some ideas. Oh, and I'm of the opinion that you can definately wind a much better sounding pu than you can get from GF, or many other outlets. :)

Thanks. That's about my speed--except I need to buy a multimeter.

A bobbin, some magnets, 6000 wraps of wire: what can I do that's going to make it sound better than GFS?? I am actually curious about this.

Simplest, I could think of - use a drill: Get a $15 gram scale from Harbor Freight, calculate the length of the wire you will need to add to the bobbin, make something to hold the bobbin where the bobbin is double-side taped to a small piece of wood with something like a lag-bolt glued through the middle of it. Then just put the lag-bolt in the the chuck and spin away.

Take it off of the drill once in a while and weigh the bobbin, just keep spinning until you have the right weight.

Short of screwing the bobbin to a table and jogging around it for 4 hours, what's the simplest way to wind a pick-up?

By hand? :lol:, sorry, but you asked. As for bare bones, it doesn't get more basic than the "Scatter Winder" (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot/241964-diy-scatter-pickup-winder.html) :wink:

Scatter: I remember that gizmo from the Scattervarius thread (I think it was). It's brilliant, but just putting that together would take me more time than I want to spend on the whole PU project. :lol:

It's brilliant, but just putting that together would take me more time than I want to spend on the whole PU project. :lol:
:shock::shock:, sometimes I wonder about you................:lol:

:shock::shock:, sometimes I wonder about you................:lol:

Yeah, I live a weird life. No fishing reels, junk calculators, or bike speedometers lying around. :mrgreen:

Yeah, I live a weird life. No fishing reels, junk calculators, or bike speedometers lying around. :mrgreen:

:lol::lol::lol:

I'd guess not..................but I'd wager there's a sewing machine to be had somewhere :wink:

Grab a sewing machine, double stick tape your bobbin to the wheel. Now you have a nice speed controlled winder. Guide the wire off the spool by hand. If you just want to give it a one off go, don't worry about counting winds since you're probably not trying to reproduce something specific. Just move your hand back and forth guiding the wire across the width of the bobbin and back, keeping it even. When the bobbin gets full, wire it up. A multimeter is pretty important, if only to make sure you didn't break the wire somewhere, or you actually soldered through the varnish when you make the connections on the eyelet. I guess you could just touch a 9v battery and an LED across the eyelets to see if the wire is in one piece.

Go for it. You are going to end up liking it

Hmm, sewing machine. I guess the main advantage over the hand drill is hands-free operation.

You can meter the wire easily if you gently scrape off a little of the enamel. No need to repair it as it is getting wound against other insulated windings anyway.

You can meter the wire easily if you gently scrape off a little of the enamel. No need to repair it as it is getting wound against other insulated windings anyway.

The mark of a great post is how quickly you find yourself thinking "Now why the Hell didn't I think of that?"

Thank you, maracroonie.

Cordless variable speed drill, SPN 155 42 gauge magnet wire, garolite scraps, 1018 steel rods 3/16 inch, scrap brass (maybe an old hinge), brass eyelets. bar magnet, wax.

No need to count the windings, just fill it up as much as you can for about 9k

You can meter the wire easily if you gently scrape off a little of the enamel. No need to repair it as it is getting wound against other insulated windings anyway.

SPN 155 is solderable, the coating melts at 155 degree C. when you want to measure, just hit it with a soldering gun. no need to scratch anything.

soldering the wires back together when it breaks works too.

Cordless variable speed drill, SPN 155 42 gauge magnet wire, garolite scraps, 1018 steel rods 3/16 inch, scrap brass (maybe an old hinge), brass eyelets. bar magnet, wax.

No need to count the windings, just fill it up as much as you can for about 9k

I was thinking more:

go to stewmac
click on PU kits
click on PU wire
input credit card #
??
profit!

:lol:

I do have DIY spirit, I swear I do, I just want to save it for building the guitar.... I'm just halfway through my first-ever scratch build, haven't even made a neck yet. :oops:

In my Challenge thread, I used just a cordless drill, a drum sander with the outer washer taken off and a piece of carpet tape. I usually have pretty steady hands, so I didn't use a guide. I also wound to a value of close resistance, and then used the higher one for the bridge pickup. It seems a little simplistic, but even the whole process of making the bobbins out of wood, and then winding them only took a few hours time. In real terms, an afternoon to make the bobbins, and about an hour to wind and finish them both. With a little research you can find all kinds of reasons that your pickups can sound better than machine wound stuff, and even if you buy your materials at retail price, you're still not going to pay anywhere near what you will for a completed job. The nice thing is, once you have the process down, you never have to buy a replacement pickup again. If a coil goes bad, strip that baby down and wind it back up...

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot/317872-moodys-former-challenge-build-3.html#post4141653

you can get a multi meter from Harbor Freight for like $5, this is probably the lest of your problems.

http://www.harborfreight.com/general-merch/electrical/7-function-multimeter-98025.html

you can get a multi meter from Harbor Freight for like $5, this is probably the lest of your problems.

http://www.harborfreight.com/general-merch/electrical/7-function-multimeter-98025.html

How about free?

you can get a multi meter from Harbor Freight for like $5, this is probably the lest of your problems.

http://www.harborfreight.com/general-merch/electrical/7-function-multimeter-98025.html
That's funny, I wasn't under the impression that there was a Harbor Freight in Osaka.

I purchased a manual coil winder with a mechanical counter on ebay but only because I didn't want to use my sewing machine :oops:

I made my pickup winder for about 10 bucks worth of parts. I used a small DC motor, a potentiometer and a dc power source (9v danelectro wall wart although you could rig it up with a 9v battery too). I just mounted the motor so that the shaft was horizontal, and made a pickup mounting plate by drilling a hole in the middle of a rectangular piece of wood. Double stick tape holds the bobbin.

I've done pickup winding with a drill before, but I don't like it for several reasons. The first and biggest problem I had was there is too much torque. You can easily snap the pickup wire (which I did several times while learning). This is especially true when starting up the drill; Hit the trigger too hard, snap goes the wire. With my setup, you can actually stop the motor with the 42 AWG wire...no more deciding whether to re-wind, or solder the broken ends and hope they hold!

I've done pickup winding with a drill before, but I don't like it for several reasons. The first and biggest problem I had was there is too much torque. You can easily snap the pickup wire (which I did several times while learning). This is especially true when starting up the drill; Hit the trigger too hard, snap goes the wire. With my setup, you can actually stop the motor with the 42 AWG wire...no more deciding whether to re-wind, or solder the broken ends and hope they hold!

I like this idea. I could probably pick up one of those little handheld electric fans at a dollar store, especially this time of year. Do you get enough tension for a tight wind, though?

As far as I can tell, they are tight enough that I can get enough windings to get the desired resistance. I'm not convinced that there is really a difference in tone when it comes to tighter or looser windings. I think there is a lot of snake oil when it comes to pickups. It is really a magnetic field with a wire coil to sense changes... Given that, the two biggest things that will affect the sound (from the perspective of a pickup) are the resistance, and the strength of the magnetic field (which is the difference between the Alnico grades)

All that being said, they sound that comes out of the speaker is the sum of all parts involved. The pickup is just one of many parts (the amp IMO having the biggest effect). Any pickup you make will sound just as good, if not better than a GFS pickup as long as it works (no breaks or shorts in the coils). That's just my opinion, and I'm sure others may disagree. I have been very happy with the pickups I've made vs the commercially available pickups (I have, and use, both).

With a little research you can find all kinds of reasons that your pickups can sound better than machine wound stuff...


Can you give me a hint? :mrgreen:

That's funny, I wasn't under the impression that there was a Harbor Freight in Osaka.

I purchased a manual coil winder with a mechanical counter on ebay but only because I didn't want to use my sewing machine :oops:

I get this a lot, because my Engrish is so good. :mrgreen: But yeah, no HF's within 5,000 miles. Kind of ironic, since I'm a lot closer to where all that stuff is made. :cool: Still, the multimeter may in fact be the least of my problems, which maybe tells you something. :neutral:

Why didn't you want to use your sewing machine? You don't have to mod anything, do you?

I like this idea. I could probably pick up one of those little handheld electric fans at a dollar store, especially this time of year. Do you get enough tension for a tight wind, though?

You needen't worry too much about tightness of the wind, if you wax pot your pickups after winding. Wind just needs to be snug, wax will prevent vibration of the coils and resultant feedback squeal. I think most guys use their secret recipe of mixed paraffin and bees wax.

Any one checked out or used one of these tattoo coil winders for pickups?

http://www.amazon.com/ELECTRIC-Tattoo-Winding-Machine-Winder/dp/B004YD77SM

or these manual ones?

http://www.amazon.com/Custom-Tattoo-Winding-Machine-Winder/dp/B004YD77IW

Wow, tattoo machines use coils. I never would have thought of that, but it makes sense. Gee, there's an even more specialized application than ours!

I'm a ham radio operator (K4VIB) and I build my own radios. I have to wind my own toroidal inductors and when I add a tap to the windings I twist the wire together and burn off the lacquer coating with a cigarette lighter...it's ready for soldering then with a little clean up. You could probably do the same when checking the resistance as you wind a pickup.


The mark of a great post is how quickly you find yourself thinking "Now why the Hell didn't I think of that?"

Thank you, maracroonie.

I get this a lot, because my Engrish is so good. :mrgreen: But yeah, no HF's within 5,000 miles. Kind of ironic, since I'm a lot closer to where all that stuff is made. :cool: Still, the multimeter may in fact be the least of my problems, which maybe tells you something. :neutral:

Why didn't you want to use your sewing machine? You don't have to mod anything, do you?
My sewing machine is built into a wooden table/stand and I didn't want to go lugging it around.
I think the motor needs some new brushes as well.


The manual winder I purchased looks very much like the tattoo coil winder linked above although mine has a more old school counter mechanism.

When are we going to get to see an Urushi lacquered tele?

I know a few people who wind pickups for themselves & others, and when I see what is takes to get set up to do it and how much fiddlie work it is and then compare that to what I can buy a really good set of pickups for (with a warranty)... I say to myself "Naw, let someone else do it. I don't need the hassle or the aggrevasion".

I know a few people who wind pickups for themselves & others, and when I see what is takes to get set up to do it and how much fiddlie work it is and then compare that to what I can buy a really good set of pickups for (with a warranty)... I say to myself "Naw, let someone else do it. I don't need the hassle or the aggrevasion".

But....... if it's a mandatory function of entering the 2013 competition and you want to do it, getting prepared now makes sense. The Adirondak5 (Herb's) thread "Hmmmm, A Build for Me" contains everything anyone needs here to make a professional quality winder on the cheap AND it has an excellent counter.

But....... if it's a mandatory function of entering the 2013 competition and you want to do it, getting prepared now makes sense. The Adirondak5 (Herb's) thread "Hmmmm, A Build for Me" contains everything anyone needs here to make a professional quality winder on the cheap AND it has an excellent counter.

It just isn't something I want to do... so if I can't enter the challenge, so be it. I've built 49 guitars from scratch over the past 10 years so it isn't much a challenge to me anymore anyway. :wink:

JK and BC: this is exactly where I'm at: in-between you guys. :lol: I'm lukewarm on building my own PU's, exactly for the reasons jkingma lists, except I think I could maybe get interested in it at some point. I DO want to join the challenge next year if I can, though. Thing is, my challenge build would be only the second guitar I've ever made from scratch (the first one's barely half-finished), and my idea already includes a bunch of stuff I've never tried (hollowbody, binding, inlays, etc.), so my goal for the PU's is simply to get through that requirement with the absolute minimum expenditure of time, energy, funds and stress. I'm gonna have my hands full with the WOOD. Heck, I've never even sawn fret slots yet!

To jpbturbo: You won't see one from me any time soon. I'm in love with acrylic lacquer. Too much trouble catching and grinding up bugs.

Ok, it's like this, we both want to enter the Challenge next year. I've done this before (long ago) and there's no need to get zen with it for that purpose seeing as all they have to do is function (you can change them out after the Challenge if you like). Seeing as how I'm likely to be the newest part time employee of Goodwill, I'm going with a sewing machine. Since I don't ever plan to sew, rigging the drive axle for a wood disk so I can use double-sided tape is a pain, but no big deal. I'll wind the sucker to "that looks about right", check the resistance with my multimeter meter and call it good enough. You can buy alnico rods and wire online, Neo magnets to charge the rods are in tons of junk hardrives I have round here. North/south, who gives a crap, esp if I go with only one pickup. Got no hardrives? stew mac sells the magnets (of course :lol:). I don't see it costing a ton or being overly hard. The hardest part is learning how to feed the wire (I recommend talcum powder on your fingers). A pound roll of wire is a lottttttt of practice :lol:. Don't believe you'll get much better than that, given money & time :wink:


Dave

Ok, it's like this, we both want to enter the Challenge next year. I've done this before (long ago) and there's no need to get zen with it for that purpose seeing as all they have to do is function (you can change them out after the Challenge if you like). Seeing as how I'm likely to be the newest part time employee of Goodwill, I'm going with a sewing machine. Since I don't ever plan to sew, rigging the drive axle for a wood disk so I can use double-sided tape is a pain, but no big deal. I'll wind the sucker to "that looks about right", check the resistance with my multimeter meter and call it good enough. You can buy alnico rods and wire online, Neo magnets to charge the rods are in tons of junk hardrives I have round here. North/south, who gives a crap, esp if I go with only one pickup. Got no hardrives? stew mac sells the magnets (of course :lol:). I don't see it costing a ton or being overly hard. The hardest part is learning how to feed the wire (I recommend talcum powder on your fingers). A pound roll of wire is a lottttttt of practice :lol:. Don't believe you'll get much better than that, given money & time :wink:


Dave

I think you're about right. I might try my luck with the one-dollar fan first, 'cuz I don't know anybody with a sewing machine, and I like the low-torque part. I have experience mounting a drill in a jig, too, so that might be my second resort. I think I'll order stuff while I'm in the States over the summer. And yeah, I'm planning to practice a bit. :smile:

I don't know anybody with a sewing machine
That recycle place where you got the fan seems like a place to look.I remember a friend from Japan who worked for Nippondenso having one he couldn't use here (voltage/phase, no clue) and it was a tiny little thing. Didn't seem much good to me for much (I wasn't into this then), as I recall it wasn't much bigger than some of the winders I've seen lately. Funny what hangs out in the cobwebs of memory :lol:

I think I'll order stuff while I'm in the States over the summer. And yeah, I'm planning to practice a bit. :smile:
Sounds like a plan :wink:

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere yet, but does the tension of the copper wire play a part in the sound properties of the pickup? Obviously too tight and it breaks, and too loose and the winding will be all wonky, but is there any kind of "correct" medium when you're actually spooling it on?

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere yet, but does the tension of the copper wire play a part in the sound properties of the pickup? Obviously too tight and it breaks, and too loose and the winding will be all wonky, but is there any kind of "correct" medium when you're actually spooling it on?

I was told by an established pick-up winder that yes tension makes a difference. Controlling the tension can be tough because as the oblong bobbin rotates the tension will vary from the corners to the straights. the tension will be higher on the ends, and this could create cracks in the coating that can form eddy currents in the magnetic field. He swears by it.
the trick is to lessen the tension while the wire winds along the curves and increase the tension in the straight aways. I tried this with my original pickup winder by adding a load to the mechanism and creating more of a pulse type of rotation. did it make a difference - who knows. I certainly can't tell.

That recycle place where you got the fan seems like a place to look.

That reminds me, I gotta pay to have them take that fan away. . . .:neutral:

When are we going to get to see an Urushi lacquered tele?

That would be so cool !!!

I took a few lessons once, from a teacher who had learned it in Japan.

But I had to quit, because of the allergic reaction to my skin ...

It was itching, red and with bubbles for almost a month !

It's the most dangerous substance when it comes to contact allergic reactions ...



s.

That would be so cool !!!

I took a few lessons once, from a teacher who had learned it in Japan.

But I had to quit, because of the allergic reaction to my skin ...

It was itching, red and with bubbles for almost a month !

It's the most dangerous substance when it comes to contact allergic reactions ...



s.

Been working with urushi for a while now here in Tokyo with the vague future aim of doing an all-Japanese wood tele and an urushi/maki-e finish. I was tempted to consider it for the challenge in the future, but the drying times would make that impossible.

If you're allergic, there's always shin-urushi. Even experts usually can't tell it apart from the other type, especially if it's done well.

Been working with urushi for a while now here in Tokyo with the vague future aim of doing an all-Japanese wood tele and an urushi/maki-e finish. I was tempted to consider it for the challenge in the future, but the drying times would make that impossible.

If you're allergic, there's always shin-urushi. Even experts usually can't tell it apart from the other type, especially if it's done well.

Be sure to post when you get to choosing wood for a neck and fretboard!

I thought I would mention some places to get parts for pickup making that are quite popular:

Everything but wire:
Mojotone: http://www.mojotone.com/guitar-parts/pickups

ebay seller addiction-fx has tons of stuff - I used to sell tons of magnets on ebay before he started - kind of drove me out of that because his prices were so low - I turned all of my customers his way and they all liked his stuff. Great prices.

Wire:
BAE Wire : http://stores.ebay.com/BAE-MAGNET-WIRE?_rdc=1

Be sure to post when you get to choosing wood for a neck and fretboard!

You should check out some of Barnaby's builds over on the "My Les Paul" forum, they're to die for :smile:. I keep hoping (hint, hint) that he'll do one of them here :grin:


Dave

You should check out some of Barnaby's builds over on the "My Les Paul" forum, they're to die for :smile:. I keep hoping (hint, hint) that he'll do one of them here :grin:


Dave

Yeah, I've seen 'em! Hand-made in the strictest sense! Always makes me feel guilty for complaining about my inadequate work area. :oops:

Okay, I'm starting to get my head around the whole winding process. Marty (guitarbuilder) has started a real good thread on the topic, and I'm starting to see how I can go about this myself, but I gotta ask again:

What's gonna make a hand-wound pick-up sound better than an 18-dollar GFS pick-up?

What's gonna make a hand-wound pick-up sound better than an 18-dollar GFS pick-up?

Some say the human randomness of handwinding, some say the quality of the individual magnets, some say it's the secret ratio of wax for potting.

Not sure if any make a difference. pickups are pretty basic. I doubt there are very many new revolutionary desgin changes that make one "sound better" over another. Just the fact that a builder decided to wind his/her own pickups gives the illusion that there is a noticable difference in sound. Why would he/she do this unless there is a distinct difference. Since winding pickups is such an undertaking - there must be a difference. all that plays into the users interpretation of the sound of the pickup.

It's like back in the 70's, when Coors beer was not available in Michigan. If you had a friend coming to visit from denver, that was first request on your list. because it was the best - right? way better than boring old Strohs.

Now that Coors can be purchased at the corner market, it doesn't quite taste the same as it did.

Though I have customers say they liked the sound of the pickup before knowing that it was hand wound in the backyard.

Well, I've got the old Zebco mounted on a 2 X 6, just wish finding slim alnico bar magnets was that easy :lol:. Although the dimensions of the ones I am finding go a longggg way to explaining why danelectro pups used a 3" magnet :wink:

Sepaking of Danelectro, anybody done a homemade lipstick pickup? I've looked all over and can't find that it's been tackled.

Some say the human randomness of handwinding, some say the quality of the individual magnets, some say it's the secret ratio of wax for potting.

Not sure if any make a difference. pickups are pretty basic. I doubt there are very many new revolutionary desgin changes that make one "sound better" over another. Just the fact that a builder decided to wind his/her own pickups gives the illusion that there is a noticable difference in sound. Why would he/she do this unless there is a distinct difference. Since winding pickups is such an undertaking - there must be a difference. all that plays into the users interpretation of the sound of the pickup.

It's like back in the 70's, when Coors beer was not available in Michigan. If you had a friend coming to visit from denver, that was first request on your list. because it was the best - right? way better than boring old Strohs.

Now that Coors can be purchased at the corner market, it doesn't quite taste the same as it did.

Though I have customers say they liked the sound of the pickup before knowing that it was hand wound in the backyard.

I distinctly remembering paying 499 for a 6 pack of coors in Buffalo in the mid 70's. You could get the local brew for 99 cents a 6 pack or in that neighborhood. I must say that was quite a let down, although the coors was pretty smooth.

Okay, I'm starting to get my head around the whole winding process. Marty (guitarbuilder) has started a real good thread on the topic, and I'm starting to see how I can go about this myself, but I gotta ask again:

What's gonna make a hand-wound pick-up sound better than an 18-dollar GFS pick-up?

Hey Jupiter,

Hand winding is definitely cheaper than the $18 GFS. Retail cost on my Fender style blade Tele pickup parts was about $5 using flat work carved out of Garolite! See full details in my 2012 Challenge build. As far as sound goes, I love my hand wound pups! Sonic beauty is in the ears of the behearer.... :roll:

Rob

Okay, I'm starting to get my head around the whole winding process. Marty (guitarbuilder) has started a real good thread on the topic, and I'm starting to see how I can go about this myself, but I gotta ask again:

What's gonna make a hand-wound pick-up sound better than an 18-dollar GFS pick-up?


Same thing that makes the hand made guitar better than the $200 Xavaire you could buy , home made mojo :razz: