Not a guitar snob....any longer!

I have been playing pretty much all my life. My first guitar was a Harmony Rocket. I have owned 3 Gibson Les Pauls, two Fender Teles a MIM Strat and a pre CBS Strat and a whole ****load of other brands and body styles. The 20th anniversary LP Custom and the Ibanez "lawsuit" Flying V being the prizes. Here is what I really want to say. Good guitars do not have to be branded with a certain name. My current stable of guitars has no name brands and are as good as any I have ever owned. I have become kind of a collector of inexpensive but well made guitars. When I was young and gigging regularly I only used Gibsons, today I am very happy with the guitars I own and if I added the costs of all 5 together it wouldn't equal the cost of one decent Gibson. I now own a Main Street Tele copy, Trinity River set neck LP copy, Brownsville The Bat, Yamaha 112 Strat copy, and New York Pro acoustic. If they were stolen I wouldn't FRET, I'd just hunt the pawn shops and online for more inexpensive but nice guitars, THAT IS ALL Thank you for listening.

Rexx Texas

I hear you on the off brands.

I had a Heartfield (Fender Japan/USA) RR model which was great.

Perhaps the straightest, problem free neck I had was on my Aria Urchin which was a copy of my B.C. with DiMarzios. The Aria was pretty much a better guitar.

Another guitar which I had that was great was an '80s MIJ black Squier Stratocaster and the only thing that really needed replacing was the tuners.

Last but not least was my Shiro (Aria) 335 copy. I added an old '60 or '61 PAF and DiMarzio '59 to bring it up to prime time.

I have been hearing a ton about the Eastwood full hollowbodies. For the price, many say it's comparable or better than a similarly priced Gretsch or Ibanez.

I think a lot of us know what you mean. I certainly have had my share of decent, playable inexpensive guitars and still do. It's usually budgetary. I can't justify a custom shop guitar with two kids in college next year!

My Squier Classic Vibe Tele is the best Telecaster I've ever owned in every way: $305.

My Epiphone '56 Les Paul Goldtop plays great, stays in tune all night and sounds just fine; $349.

One of the guys I play with is a total guitar snob. If it doesn't say Gibson or Fender on the headstock, it's garbage, firewood. He has various names for inexpensive guitars, but they're all negative. Frankly, me and a couple of the other guys are getting pissed with his attitude. Another guy in the band uses Epiphone and Ibanez guitars that play and sound just fine. He too gets really bugged with this other guy's attitude. Next time El Snobbo starts in with his tirades, I plan to speak up, finally.

I think a lot of us know what you mean. I certainly have had my share of decent, playable inexpensive guitars and still do. It's usually budgetary. I can't justify a custom shop guitar with two kids in college next year!

My Squier Classic Vibe Tele is the best Telecaster I've ever owned in every way: $305.

My Epiphone '56 Les Paul Goldtop plays great, stays in tune all night and sounds just fine; $349.

One of the guys I play with is a total guitar snob. If it doesn't say Gibson or Fender on the headstock, it's garbage, firewood. He has various names for inexpensive guitars, but they're all negative. Frankly, me and a couple of the other guys are getting pissed with his attitude. Another guy in the band with uses Epiphone and Ibanez guitars that play and sound just fine. He too gets really bugged with this other guy's attitude. Next time El Snobbo starts in with his tirades, I plan to speak up, finally.

I say let the snobs be. In almost every case, they are jealous of other players who can kick their ass using a no-name guitar. If and when they get better, they will ditch the snob attitude.

All it takes is for the right moment when circumstances has the guitarist, hopefully improved greatly, to play a gig or be on a recording with an off-brand yet sound great (their best). That usually cures it.

I had a friend, not a snob though, who had a lot of upped and amped out guitars with all the special effects and aftermarket parts and we would actually prefer he used his cheapest guitar, direct into amp. He sounded the best and these days, he knows it and has accepted that price tag doesn't equate to tone. While I don't like that guitar's pointy shape, I do sound pretty good on it even though the strings are like sewing threads. Sometimes, without any real explanation, a certain guitar will stand out among her sisters in the same brand/line, and stand out among all guitars in general and have a certain magic.

I am in complete agreement that the name doesn't really matter as much as the quality, sound and playability. And as long as the build quality is there, you can remedy the rest yourself. I don't own even one big name guitar (unless you count my Ibanez acoustic), and all of mine are great playing, well built guitars. Those who are stuck in the dogma of name brands are only hurting themselves.

I can agree that the quality in some lesser expensive models can be be above average. Personally, I find the quality and finish of my Classic Vibe Tele CVC to be much better than my 2010 MIM Standard Strat.

However, I'm not one to say that there's no difference between a revered American made instrument, and an above average quality Chinese copy. Am I a snob? lol no. I'll pay the premium price for a premium instrument if I feel it's worth it. My Highway 1 Strat is considered bottom of the barrel for an American made instrument, but the feel of the neck in my hands, and the quality of the instrument impresses me.

I've already decided to get another strat. Is the Classic Vibe 60's Strat a great guitar? Of course. Would I rather have an American Standard? Absolutely.

I might be wrong but I am thinking that the Chinese should have little trouble doing a perfect or even better copy of American 50s technology in 2012.

I might be wrong but I am thinking that the Chinese should have little trouble doing a perfect or even better copy of American 50s technology in 2012.


the difference isn't necessarily copying the technology. It's the craftsmanship, quality, and attention to detail that a musician can expect when they pay a premium price for an American made instrument.

It's no secret that many Chinese factories are in business with the model of making products cheaply, and as quickly as possible.

the difference isn't necessarily copying the technology. It's the craftsmanship, quality, and attention to detail that a musician can expect when they pay a premium price for an American made instrument.

It's no secret that many Chinese factories are in business with the model of making products cheaply, and as quickly as possible.

The Chinese were craftsman when we were swinging down from the trees and covering ourselves in woad .

The Chinese were craftsman when we were swinging down from the trees and covering ourselves in woad .

I think we can take a look at history here to see an analogy.

I'm old enough to remember the cheap Japanese transistor radios that flooded North America in the sixties. There were innumerable other electronic items that came over as well. When one sad 'Japanese' one always meant 'cheap'. Until they got some experience and cash and started to upgrade. Now people look for items made in Japan and try not to get the ones made in Korea or other countries because the Japanese ones are the best. We may very well be seeing the same thing happening with China. We'll just have to wait and see.

Good for you! I don't believe in the name, I believe in the instrument. I've played and owned many lesser brand names, never ashamed of them either. Most times a good set of strings, and quick set up...good to go as is.

I think we can take a look at history here to see an analogy.

I'm old enough to remember the cheap Japanese transistor radios that flooded North America in the sixties. There were innumerable other electronic items that came over as well. When one sad 'Japanese' one always meant 'cheap'. Until they got some experience and cash and started to upgrade. Now people look for items made in Japan and try not to get the ones made in Korea or other countries because the Japanese ones are the best. We may very well be seeing the same thing happening with China. We'll just have to wait and see.

Japan came up from the ashes, to borrow a well used phrase, of World War II and became a superpower economically. During the war their factories were pushed underground and were slowed up considerably and three quarters of their merchant shipping was sunk largely by submarines. China already has the same world leader status that Japan reached, too and it's only a matter of time before the quality gets there. China doesn't have to rebuild after a major world war and technology, via computers, has been and is readily available to them.

As for current Chinese made gear of big brands, they do a pretty good job of this for a street price of $550 USD and they have got my attention for that. The Chinese made Ibanez AM93 sports some features once only found on stuff close to a thousand dollars and guitars made in Korea and Japan for Ibanez just two years ago.

On this guitar, that's real quilted maple instead of photo flame stuff and the pickups are Custom 58s, among the best stock pickups in any guitar. I don't know if they wind their own 58s or if they just get it from Ibanez Japan. But if they are putting this guitar out and making their own pickups for this then it's astounding how far they have come in less than a decade. Japan took far longer to get up to primetime in moderately priced guitars suffering with unmentionable 1950s junk and some improved but still substandard gear all throughout the 1960s. It wasn't until the mid-1970s that the Japanese gear from the different companies got on par with everybody else.

But ten years ago in China, there weren't factories making guitars where some of the huge makers are right now and it will be fun to see the next five to ten years. China is going to shrug off their cheapo gear status much faster than Japan or Korea did.

I've got a "B stock" Rondo LP copy (cost 180 clams) that's simply incredible.

The Chinese are quite capable of making amazing instruments consistently right now. They choose to occupy the lower price point, but over time, that will change. I welcome it.

This guy I know made high end stringed instruments out in his carport and then moved the operation to China......he says they are top notch and he sells them for a fraction of his former price. Link:


http://www.violadagamba.com/

I'm with you guys! My two main guitars that I gig with are a Douglas Tele-copy that has been very modified(StewMac maple neck, Bardens, P/W(via Bill Bores) B-Bender...) and an SX 335-copy that the only modifications are straplocks, bone nut and locking tuners. Oh yeah, I pulled off the pickguard on the 335-copy!
Also, the bass I gig with is an SX 70's Jazz bass-copy.
I am a happy guy with very nice sounding AND looking gear!

Right now my favorite guitar is a used Cort Source I got for less than $200. ES-335 style with a Fralin P2 pickup in the neck position. This axe plays and feels great and easily goes from smokey jazz to a great country twang (and everything in between). I have several much more expensive guitars that are currently feeling very neglected.

wkturn2008 you are right about the Chinese. I bought a Monterey Tele back a few years ago. Pro's use them here. Alder body, vintage tuners, all I did was put Texas Specials in it. Turns out Fender made them change the headstock-sounds like the early 80's all over again.
Also saw /played some incredible Chinese guitars in Singapore when last there.They love them and they are not unintelligent folks.

If you buy based on brand that's cool, but you are going to miss out on some great guitars.

If a guitar really speaks to you and it's a $3000 custom shop that doesn't mean it's worth every bit of $3000. It means the guitar you want costs $3000.

If the guitar that really speaks to you is a $200 guitar that doesn't mean it's only worth $200. It means it will only cost you $200 to get the guitar you want.

Some people think a $3000 guitar HAS to be better than a $200 guitar. Some people think because of value, the $200 guitar is better.

Don't feel bad if you paid $3000 to get what you wanted. Don't feel bad if you paid $200 to get what you wanted. You still got what you wanted. If someone is giving you **** because of what you paid or what brand it is, keep your head up because obviously you're playing on a level that only leaves your gear to make fun of.

very nicely said purpletele! are you a diplomat?

I figure that others can play whatever they want if it brings them joy. But I may be a snob when it comes to my own gear. In all my years of playing I have constantly been disappointed in gear and it's always been the inexpensive stuff. And I wanted to like them. Oh well. I'll duck behind the couch now.

Having said that, IMO some of the biggest dogs I've played have been the holy grails of vintage pieces. I guess I wasn't lucky finding the good ones.

I am quite happy with my Squiers, thank you very much.

All things being equal, Tone is in the fingers.

Amen gentlemen, count me in.

One of the best guitars I ever owed was a Westone Paduak 1. I picked up in Japan in the early 80's. I paid next to nothing for it, got a Les Paul and got rid of it. I'd loved to have it back. I saw some Westone's when I got back to the states and they weren't near the quality of the one purchased in Japan. Last time I looked for one it was about 10x what I paid originally.

Having said that, IMO some of the biggest dogs I've played have been the holy grails of vintage pieces. I guess I wasn't lucky finding the good ones.

You're not alone. I've played some amazing pieces, but a lot more that were mediocre.

And I'll never forget the 1955 strat that to this day is the crappiest instrument I've ever played. I have a feeling that someone carved that neck on Monday after a hard weekend of heavy drinking.

old 20th anniversary Les Paul Customs on ebay asking price is over $3000...mine was a great guitar but my Trinity River plays and sounds as good, my Main Street tele is as good as my 80s pink paisley tele...I think the value of those two are in more than just the name but if they weren't Gibson and Fender they'd be lots less expensive

Although I love my top brandname USA built guitars I also own many really good guitars built in the far east over the last four decades. My recent Squier CV Strat and Tele are fantastic value for money, well put together with great pickups. I have a late 70's Ibanez AS100 which is as good as most Gibson 335's I've played and better than the Gibson Lucille I have. The Korean PRS SE guitars I have are of exeptional build quality at a very good price. Lots of the 70's Japanese made Strat copies are built to a high standard and with a pickup upgrade, (and maybe a fret dress), make very nice little instruments , I've bought several of these in the past for around £25 each at sales!

It is easy to be a non-snob these days with so many great guitars coming out at low price points. Back when most vintage gear was being made (Let's say the 30's to the 70's) inexpensive generally meant truly awful gear. I suspect this is the true origin of gear snobbery. Off brand electric guitars of the 50's and 60's weren't just quirky, they were unplayable.

What changed all this for me was the CV tele and strats.
I am now another member of the non-snob club.
I am going to look into the TR LP.

It is easy to be a non-snob these days with so many great guitars coming out at low price points. Back when most vintage gear was being made (Let's say the 30's to the 70's) inexpensive generally meant truly awful gear. I suspect this is the true origin of gear snobbery. Off brand electric guitars of the 50's and 60's weren't just quirky, they were unplayable.

This is spot on.

It's one thing to brag (or complain about costs) regarding a Harvard degree, Jimmy Choo shoes, or a Bentley. These are all things which are obviously out of reach for most of us financially and can be perceived as way off the mark price wise. But an American Standard Telecaster or Les Paul Standard, while pricier than the Chinese stuff, is still well within reach of most people and aren't "snob" or "braggart" items and are pretty normal. It does make sense, with the American stuff reasonably within reach, to complain about the pre-1970s imported stuff which was usually sub-par. It's more about complaining about the cheap gear than bragging about a then $300 dollar Stratocaster.

There are very few guitar items which really belong in the snob category of those who rub elbows in the circles of the Harvards, Jimmy Choos, and Bentleys. Here is a Fender which can qualify for snob appeal at an appalling thirty grand USD:

Not only China but Indonesia makes some good stuff now.

Even India is capable of making some decent guitars nowadays. I own a Squier VM HSS Tele that is an excellent guitar.

Totally erases the memory of the brief run of Indian made Squiers from 20-plus years ago that were absolutely crappy.

Your post sounds exactly like me. I actually sold my last fairly expensive guitar (LP) a couple of weeks ago (I've owned probably 100 mostly Gibby's and Fenders since the 70's..owned pre CBS tele too).
I do still own one Gibson, but I only paid $400 for it recently, 1997 Gibson SG1 and I love it. I own a Squier Strat which I modified with pickups, an older Lotus Strat which I also modified and a Hohner G2T. That's about it. OH...and I also sold all my old vintage pedals for much $$ too! Now I use a couple of cheap Boss pedals and am just as happy.

Not only China but Indonesia makes some good stuff now.

Even India is capable of making some decent guitars nowadays. I own a Squier VM HSS Tele that is an excellent guitar.

Totally erases the memory of the brief run of Indian made Squiers from 20-plus years ago that were absolutely crappy.

I also have a Squier '51 that I wouldn't hesitate to use on a gig. Totally stock, it is a great guitar.

I really envy those of you who have found happiness in inexpensive equipment. Doing so fits my dearly held ethos. Until recently I've gone out of my way to get the best possible sound out of inexp

ensive gear; I haven't wanted to find tonal nirvana with upscale (for me) gear. And then I stumbled into putting together a rig with some nicer gear. It was a game changer for me. So, tone is in the fingers? The gear? IMO it's a blend, not just the fingers.

I own a couple of Squiers, an Epi LP, a Washburn ES335 clone and two partscasters. None were expensive. I've played brand-spankin' new MIA's some Custom Shops and a few vintage Strats and Teles in the $15,000-20,000 range. I don't sound one bit different (for better or worse) than I do on my budget gitfiddles.

And for proof that it's the archer, not the arrow, check Youtube for Jack Pearson at 3rd & Lindsley's back in February rockin' a $90 pawnshop special virtually stock Squier Affinity Strat! WOWWWWW!!!! (I'd imbed this, but I'm a dunce in that arena....and others.)

Oh, yeah...he's playing through a Blues Jr. No Dumbles involved.

I own a couple of Squiers, an Epi LP, a Washburn ES335 clone and two partscasters. None were expensive. I've played brand-spankin' new MIA's some Custom Shops and a few vintage Strats and Teles in the $15,000-20,000 range. I don't sound one bit different (for better or worse) than I do on my budget gitfiddles.

And for proof that it's the archer, not the arrow, check Youtube for Jack Pearson at 3rd & Lindsley's back in February rockin' a $90 pawnshop special virtually stock Squier Affinity Strat! WOWWWWW!!!! (I'd imbed this, but I'm a dunce in that arena....and others.)

Oh, yeah...he's playing through a Blues Jr. No Dumbles involved.

Yes, it's the archer and his arrow is an Affinity Stratocaster. This guy burns as well as any Scofield, Benson, or Beck. Well freakin' done!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM41sMAr6wc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEZux46R-Fg&feature=related

All too true. Even though they have been slammed everywhere, one of the finest playing and sounding LP copies ever was a Hondo that I had back in the late 70s. Bought it for $50 at a pawn shop, did a set up myself and it rocked! And I still remember the tone the lead player in the first band I was in had using a Silvertone set-up, masonite guitar and all. Action on his was probably higher than SRVs, but Joe had tone on anything he played.

I would think that the Pre-BS Strat would be the prize, but to each his own.

No-one had ever told me that I couldn't own whatever guitar I wanted to own. I haven't actually met anyone from the guitar snob club. Therefore, I've never felt the need to defend my guitars.
Then I joined this place, and there's lots and lots of guys who feel that they need to defend their decisions to buy inexpensive guitars. However, every time someone posts pictures of his new Rondo or Affinity or Stagg, he gets nothing but compliments. No-one ever says, "Why didn't you get an Am Std?"
I still haven't found the guitar snob club.

no guitar snobb here. I have a few U.S. made tele but my best tele is a Classic Vibe with a few up-grade and I also have an 1972 Electra super gold L.P. copy that is awsome so theres no need for the 1000.00% + guitar to be good , as long as it feel good to and sounds good the player that's all that count...lloolll

No-one had ever told me that I couldn't own whatever guitar I wanted to own. I haven't actually met anyone from the guitar snob club. Therefore, I've never felt the need to defend my guitars.
Then I joined this place, and there's lots and lots of guys who feel that they need to defend their decisions to buy inexpensive guitars. However, every time someone posts pictures of his new Rondo or Affinity or Stagg, he gets nothing but compliments. No-one ever says, "Why didn't you get a Am Std."
I still haven't found the guitar snob club.

I hear what you are saying.

A site like this is very guitar centered and often technical and tends to bring in pretty serious players, even pros. For the most part we here know, to borrow a phrase, it's the archer and not the arrow. In the big world out there, full of beginners and frankly lazy and fairly bad players, then buying "American" is all they have to make themselves feel good to cover up for lack of talent/hard work/etc.

As a beginner with 3 kids, getting a brand name wasn't an option, so I got a Chinese Tele.

It stays in tune, it has no problems, it looks well made (the Ibanez guitars at the same price looked crap, even to my uneducated eye). It probably doesn't sound as good as a US Fender, but it cost a third of the price, and a Fender won't make me learn faster.

I look forward to the day I can play well enough to get a better quality guitar though, if only for a more user friendly fret space.

It's good to hear that plenty of off brand guitars can be just as good - but I do think you need to know what you're looking out for, and have an experienced ear.

I might be wrong but I am thinking that the Chinese should have little trouble doing a perfect or even better copy of American 50s technology in 2012.

You are correct. Technology today is so widely distributed, and that is supported through every company's necessity to grow, often into greater ranges of foreign markets and those opportunities. For a remarkable period in the last centruy, the US had some of the best production/manufacture, materials, labor, financing, etc, all working in concert, an amazing period of technological development. But the necessity of distribution and growth creates opportunities for other countries and regions to have the same opportunities, eventually. The automobiles, women's clothing/undergarments, men's suits, and musical instruments from that period are beautiful testamants of that special period. Current reproduction and offshoots of those old Fender telecasters, Stratocasters, and various amplifiers are living testaments to the richness of those period designs, no matter where they are made.

I have a good collection of guitars crossing a wide range of countries including American, Japanese, Korean and Chinese. The workmanship and finish on my Chinese made Ibanez AS103 BM stands up against all of them......

Perhaps the straightest, problem free neck I had was on my Aria Urchin which was a copy of my B.C. with DiMarzios. The Aria was pretty much a better guitar.



Urchin a BC copy? Never! Inspired by, yes!

I'm with you on the neck though, the neck of my Urchin is incredible. And it's three pieces too.

No-one had ever told me that I couldn't own whatever guitar I wanted to own. I haven't actually met anyone from the guitar snob club. Therefore, I've never felt the need to defend my guitars.
Then I joined this place, and there's lots and lots of guys who feel that they need to defend their decisions to buy inexpensive guitars. However, every time someone posts pictures of his new Rondo or Affinity or Stagg, he gets nothing but compliments. No-one ever says, "Why didn't you get an Am Std?"
I still haven't found the guitar snob club.


I see it a lot less often here than elsewhere, but when you try and look up cheaper guitars, Yahoo answers tends to come up and there's always 2 or 3 answers that tell you to just go buy a $1000 guitar instead. And maybe I've just picked the wrong threads to read, but over at MyLesPaul they seem to shun even Epiphones as being terrible copies of Gibson guitars.