buying handmade guitars

What is your opinion on buying handmade guitars versus buying factory made Fenders?

I am looking at a handmade esquire style guitar on etsy that is absolutely beautiful. Made out of lots of interesting woods and seems very unique. Almost has a bit of a Rickenbacker shape to it. It certainly looks classy and of high quality. It is built by a luthier out of Maine.

The asking price is $1250, which actually seems quite low as far as handmade guitar prices run. Now imagine what I could get out of Fender for $1250. For example, I could pick up a brand new US standard tele with $150 to spare.

Which do you think that you would be drawn towards choosing? Unique handmade or trusty fender? Why?

Well, looks are one thing. Sound and playability are another. As is a luthier's track record of standing behind his product.

I would not hesitate to buy a hand built, one off, custom instrument. IF, and only IF, I had played many examples of the builder's work, or if I had talked to so many people who loved it that I felt comfortable. An example of this would be Ron Kirn. I"ve never personally held one of his guitars, but I have read so many glowing reviews here and elsewhere that I would not be uncomfortable buying one if funds permitted.

You have to watch out though. Lots of people out there slapping together guitars these days and calling themselves luthiers. I know a guy here locally who is trying to learn to build. He's a custom cabinet maker and custom finishing carpenter. His woodworking skills are out of this world, and the guitars he's done LOOK absolutely amazing. Inlays to die for. Just gorgeous. He has a long way to go though, to learn about how to make a guitar play and sound as good as it looks.

Also, as I said, check into how a builder stands behind their product. You don't want to spend $1200, get a bad neck or something, and then have no way to make it right, or have the guy blow you off after he gets your money. Not saying it will happen, just that it sometimes does.

If I did all my research, and was satisfied, then yeah, I would spend $1200 on a custom one-off easily. Just on a whim, no way.

Personally, the custom guitar from a not-famous builder for $1250 that I can't play before I buy is a no-brainer - too much risk right from day 1. Add to Jakedog's well-expressed concerns the fact that you'll take a short haircut if/when you sell it.

Are you talking about this:

http://img1-llalt.etsystatic.com/il_570xN.333497921.jpg

Well, at least it's not a straight up copy... At first look I thought, god no.. But actually the looks are growing on me. Would I pay $1250 without playing it first? Absolutely not. Would I pay that much after trying it? Assuming it plays well, sounds good etc. Yeah, maybe.

As somebody who used to make a living building guitars and still has plenty of friends who do, normally I endorse the small builder. Not this time. Etsy's not exactly a normal outlet for guitars, for starters. Then there's this:

Made out of lots of interesting woods

Avoid the wood sandwich. They are lovely but I've rarely run into one that sounds good.

If you can find references for the builder and he'll let you return it within a reasonable amount of time (2 weeks) then you might want to give it a shot.

Thanks guys, that's good feedback.

And yes that is the one.

It is here: http://www.etsy.com/shop/GronlundGuitars?ref=seller_info

I do not see where it says "lots of interesting woods" though.

It clearly lists maple, walnut, zircote and alder.

If it' s EXACTLY what you want and have the cash, get it. Expect to take a big hit if you want to resell though, unless you find someone who holds that builder in high regard.

As somebody who used to make a living building guitars and still has plenty of friends who do, normally I endorse the small builder. Not this time. Etsy's not exactly a normal outlet for guitars, for starters. Then there's this:



Avoid the wood sandwich. They are lovely but I've rarely run into one that sounds good.

If you can find references for the builder and he'll let you return it within a reasonable amount of time (2 weeks) then you might want to give it a shot.

not trying to bust chops here, but.....what about the Norlin era LP's?
3pc necks
8-9pc bodies
millions of records sold:mrgreen:

Are you talking about this:

http://img1-llalt.etsystatic.com/il_570xN.333497921.jpg

Well, at least it's not a straight up copy... At first look I thought, god no.. But actually the looks are growing on me. Would I pay $1250 without playing it first? Absolutely not. Would I pay that much after trying it? Assuming it plays well, sounds good etc. Yeah, maybe.

Beautiful....but, is that a crack, just to the right of the F hole?

A Crack!!!! a crack in a guitar body???? OMG.... :wink:

rk

meh....to each his own. Personally, I wouldn't pay that kind of money for a guitar with a crack.....

...even if it was a Kirn. :mrgreen:

I'd be concerned about the crack also. It may be stable, it may not. But on the issue of buying a bespoke instrument I say go for it. If I had the money I'd support local artisans. Often, these guys are just barely making a living.

A Crack!!!! a crack in a guitar body???? OMG.... :wink:

rk

Oh no.....oh no. :lol:

nothing worse than "sandwich" body guitars:lol:

www.alembic.com

A Crack!!!! a crack in a guitar body???? OMG.... :wink:

rk

That's funny. The crack in the barnbuster seems more fitting and characteristic of the rest of the guitar though. I mean that in a good way... given the timber it came from.

I do like this guitar. It looks nice, but I'm not crazy about the pick guard.

I think if you can get a good deal, custom builds are way better than factory.
Typically they cost "custom shop" prices tho, but you get custom custom work.

That being said it's often hard to spend $$$$ on a guitar, knowing you could get 2 real nice factory guitars for the same price. good luck.

There are all sorts of oddball handmade guitars on "etsy".

That is essentially what I want - a one of a kind instrument from an unheard of maker that would make a good conversation piece and stand out as being different. It would be nice to spread some money into hands of small business as well. Yet I want to be certain that it would have good action, play well, be structurally sound and so on and so forth. Not being able to physically hold it and play it clearly all but eliminates being sure. So I suppose that there is a certain element of gambling involved in what I am talking about.

This is the full description of the particular one we are discussing:

Entirely Hand Made and Carved to Precision
Lightly Used By Builder

Beautiful 5 Peice Maple and Walnut Neck
Flamed Claro Walnut Top with single F-Hole
Highly Figured Zircote Fingerboard
3 Peice Alder Body
Classy Open Gear Tuning Keys
Vintage Style 3 Saddle Ash Tray Telecaster Bridge
Seymour Duncan STL-2 Hot Tele Lead Bridge Pickup
Black Binding
Double Action Truss Rod
24 Frets
24.75 Scale Length
23/32" nut width - just a hair wider than the often used 11/16"
12" Fingerboard Radius
Custom Aluminum Pickguard and Headcap
Aluminum Side Dots
Nice Full Neck Contour of .820" at first fret to .920" at the 12th
Tusq Nut
Smooth Satin Wipe On Poly Finish
Strap Locks

Includes a softshell gigbag and can be picked up locally or
safely shipped at a flat rate of $50. Guitar can be seen locally
in Bangor Maine. Call 207 756-3433 with any questions.

Lightly owned and used by myself, the builder, for 4 months. It has slight belt buckle dings on the back.

The guitar has been made with salvaged aged wood. It has knots, gaps and non structural stable cracks in a few spots that would not normally be seen in a conventional guitar. This gives the guitar character and is just as strong, if not stronger, than other guitars. This is intended and is part of the instrument.

Guitar will include six high quality 5x7 prints showcasing the building process.

To see more high resolution photographs, visit here:
http://www.gronlundnewcombguitars.com/ForSaleFall2011.html

About me: I am a woodworker and guitar builder. I have been formally trained at The Roberto Venn School of Guitar Luthiery and have worked for woodworking companies such as Warmoth Custom Guitar Parts.

THE BUYER WILL HAVE A FULL TWO WEEKS TO BE SURE THAT THE GUITAR MEETS THEIR EXPECTATIONS. If for any reason the buyer decides that the instrument is not what they expected and is not of the quality that satisfies them, a full refund will be issued. Buyer will pay only return shipping cost.

it isn't my cup of tea, but if you like it and you have the money you should buy it. Fender doesn't need another grand, and it sounds like from your own words this is what you want. Plus you have 2 weeks to play it and decide if it plays well and sounds good, etc.

If worse comes to worst, you can post it on regretsy (http://www.regretsy.com/) for a larf.

I used to be an out and out brand snob. If it didn't have Fender or Gibson on the headstock I just wasn't interested.

But a few years ago I was looking for a lap steel and almost bought a Cole Clark Lapdog but the shop I was dealing with got a bit ratty so I ended up going to a local luthier who makes Weissenborn instruments and acoustic guitars and he made me a totally unique lap steel which I love - and sounds amazing.

Then a year or so ago I got to hankering after a Les Paul but couldn't afford a Gibson and didn't want an Epi copy. My friend who's an engineer was in the process of making an LP for himself and when I saw what he was doing I convinced him to customise it for me and I bought it off him for the price of the parts. It's a totally unique LP and although it doesn't have the Gibson name on the headstock I don't care cos it's all mine and I know that I'd be lucky to get what I paid for it if I ever had to sell it but I don't care.

But, I have to say that handmade instruments have to be carefully chosen as I doubt if they would keep their value if you paid too much for them. At the end of the day most guitar players are brand snobs and want to see the known names on their instruments.

To see more high resolution photographs, visit here:
http://www.gronlundnewcombguitars.com/ForSaleFall2011.html



I totally can "dig" the custom luthier route. Thanks for the link to the HQ photos:

I think the body shape is very cool....
I love the body color.....I still hate the crack....regardless of Mr. Kirn's wise-cracks...:mrgreen: There is also another crack that runs into the f-hole, I would be concerned that in the future it may separate at the f-hole. I can "dig" the character of the surface hairline fissures, and also the knots...but the cracks are an entirely different animal for me.
I hate the tuners.
I don't like the headstock.
The string ferrules aren't straight.
The bridge and pickup look "worn"...re-used?
I don't like the neck/body joint at the heel.
The pickguard looks like it has a lot of pick marks...."lightly used"??? yeah.
The back has buckle rash...."lightly used"...yeah.
He is showing it in a plush tweed case...but it comes with a "gig bag"?? WTH?.


At first glance, it is way cool....but, if it was me, I would go an alternate route and consider something from a builder who is "known"....maybe even a Kirn....he could build you one with some cracks, too!

So...in this case, since you asked....my opinion would be to go with the "factory" Fender over this particular handmade "luthier" (hobbyist???) product.

That's not a slam on custom luthier non-major branded guitars....it is just my opinion on this particular guitar versus factory Fender.

An experienced custom builder will deliver a guitar that is set up right and has character you generally will not get with a cookie cutter mass produced guitar. IMO

I think the key is that if you're interested in something unique to own and play then go for it, however if you're someone that flips guitars a lot don't expect to sell it and get the value back.

Mucho respect to RK, but what's so bad about not wanting a crack in the body of a new guitar you're potentially about to shell out a bunch of dough for?

Mucho respect to RK, but what's so bad about not wanting a crack in the body of a new guitar you're potentially about to shell out a bunch of dough for?

If you don't want it, don't buy it. Isn't that easy? :roll:

If you don't want it, don't buy it. Isn't that easy? :roll:

Wait - this makes way too much sense. Please go back and muck it up a bit.

A Crack!!!! a crack in a guitar body???? OMG.... :wink:

rk

I was thinking the same thing, especially after the way you got barbequed...

Mucho respect to RK, but what's so bad about not wanting a crack in the body of a new guitar you're potentially about to shell out a bunch of dough for?


Maybe he feels too "close" to the comment???
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/Bad_Jazz/Ron%20Kirn%20Tele/KirnBack.jpg


FWIW--I think that is a beautiful piece of wood and I do not consider those to be "cracks"...but merely fissures. I would not hesitate to own a guitar of that construction...that is, if I could afford one. :mrgreen:

...and...LOOK....the ferrules are STRAIGHT!

What's going on with the neck-body joint? In the photo, it's offset about 1/4". A real pro builder wouldn't let this one out the door like that. The aluminum pickguard is not badly made, but it's a pretty crude article to put on that elaborate top. Same deal with the aluminum cap on the headstock, why not match the body? Crude. This guitar looks like it was made on a deadline, and the builder made a mistake and ran out of time. Anybody else think this is maybe a student project? Almost looks like it was made by two different people.

I'm not saying a $1000 custom guitar has to be as well made as a $300 Squier, but that neck joint... I wouldn't buy that guitar at any price.

After digging a little, I think I finally found the thread regarding cracks that serve as the foundation for some of the discussion on this one. (This also clears up the confusion I had here: http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-discussion-forum/326075-usa-quality-its-finest-2.html#post4150192.)

To the last four posters about the crack (all good points), I want to be clear, that I'm not arguing with RK's sound reasoning that the crack is most likely never going to be a structural issue, and that it's part of what makes a barn buster genuine, and not a relicaster. And I don't argue with the wisdom that if you don't like it, then you don't have to buy it. All I'm saying is I see nothing wrong with those who would choose not to buy it because of the crack - that's a matter of personal preference, just like the color of a guitar. To me, all those folks said was that they wouldn't buy this guitar because of the crack - and I don't see anything wrong with that being their preference.

But like I said, after finding the other guitar-crack thread and seeing all the comments, I understand those on this thread now.

http://www3.alembic.com/img/inst/14207_bodyfrontL.jpg
I don't know you guys Alembics to my eyes are beautiful instruments even though the general consensus is that they're daft.

You might want to check out Gary Stroup's instruments:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/turquoisemoleeater/guitars/stroup_tele.jpg

http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab200/razputin88/stroup1.jpg

http://www.archtopguitarsandbooks.com/img/p/174-424-thickbox.jpg

and mine:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_MImy5z5fUQE/TNCLaxMDjII/AAAAAAAAAsQ/GqsrBmEq1MA/Armstrong.jpg