Returned bad tubes replaced with more bad tubes

I ordered some tubes for my Laney Cub 10 last week, JJ 6V6s and Tung Sol 12AX7s, to replace the stock Rubys. Running the TSs with the stock power tubes first, to hear the difference in tone they alone made, was all good, better top end and more gain, so I then went ahead and fitted the JJs, set the volume and gain to zero and switched on... loud tranformer hum followed by blown fuse.

I couldn't get the right fuses anywhere in town so ordered some on evilbay which took a couple of days to arrive. Put one in the amp, decided to give ithe JJs one more go after re-seating them.... same thing happened. Put the Ruby 6V6s back in and no problems, so I called the supplier to let them know I got a dud pair, they suggested the JJ pins are thinner than on other tubes and might not be making good contact...I assured them this wasn't the case so they asked me to send them back for testing/replacement and they would cover the postage, so I packed them up and sent them back next day delivery.

Now, to be fair to the supplier, when they received the faulty JJs the following day they immediately dispatched another pair, which I received the day after that. Got 'em into the amp... no blown fuse this time but HORRIBLE microphonic howl, even with volume/gain at zero... tapping the amp anywhere resulted in an amplified "thud".

Back on the phone to the supplier, told them I'd received another bad set, my stock tubes worked fine and was told that it must be a problem with my amp which wasn't showing up with the Rubys because they were "tired", they said they've never had four bad tubes before and they'd sent me the replacement tubes quickly as a "gesture of good will" etc. etc...in other words "we've gone as far as we can with this".

I've ended up paying £68 for two Tung Sol 12AX7s.... not a huge amount admittedly, but I don't have money to throw away like that and anyway, it's the principle of the thing, you know? Never used this particular supplier before and probably won't again after such a fail rate, but I did pay through Paypal...so what do you guys think, should I just chalk it up to experience or go down the PP resolution route? I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Do you have another amp that you can try out the 6v6's, maybe they have a point with it being the amp...That would be really really bad odd's to have another set be bad. They keep track of those things and I would think if they seen they had a batch that was being sent back from all over they would pull them and honor everyone, hell it would be great customer service and they would look like hero's for be upfront. I'm just guessing but I have had a similiar situation where my ruby's were good(6l6's) and 2 set's of tungsols were bad, turned out it was my amp. What did they say when they tested them? Anything? Have you gotten another set from someone else that worked? if so then p.m the name of company so I can beware. good luck.. I'm sure somebody with something more technical will chime in.

I would wait and see what the new set they send you does...if they are bad I would ask the supplier for a refund, if that doesn't work then you might have to go to PayPal.

Good luck!

I could try 'em out in my Kustom '36 (6L6), but am reluctant to risk one or both of them failing completely when hit with that PT...don't know what they might take out with them.

They didn't mention anything about testing the first set, just sent another pair as soon as the originals arrived back by the sound of it.

What did your amp problem turn out to be gadgetfreak?

paratus, i think they're angling at having fulfilled their obligation by sending the second set so quickly....even though two bad sets fall way short of what I ordered and paid for, regardless of delivery speed.

Those J&J's are very dangerous, they have blown many trannys, especially the GZ34 rectifiers, somehow they wired the pins wrong at the factory and many people lost trannys before the word got out.

So I now install a 500mA inline fuse from the wire that goes from the GZ34 to the standby switch, put the inline 500mA fuse in there, if the GZ34 rectifier fails, the fuse will blow before your trannys. Will work on any amp with a rectifier tube that runs to a standby switch.

For new stock tubes, the 6V6GT, Tungsol Reissue is a good, reliable tube.

Tubes & More sells them in the USA, don't know about the UK.

Best,

ps I would stay clear of the JJ tubes, some serious quality control issues
for the last 3-4n years.

The 250mA (used in place of 500mA rating in UK 230V mains circuits) internal fuse seems to have protected the circuitry... I'd rather blow a fuse than a tranny any day! :shock:

Tung Sol 6V6GTs seem like a good alternative, though I do like the bigger soundstage of the JJs.

I went through 3 pair of bad jjs 6v6 till I finally went with tung sols

Electro Harmonix tubes are fantastic..very highly rated with players and most guitar shops carry them because they are well liked...just a suggestion :wink:

Certainly an unfortunate experience. The most trouble I've had with JJ's is a rattling tube.

I would test what tubes you have in another amp. That will yield an answer as to whether or not the problem is with the tubes or the amp. I wouldn't pass any judgment on the seller until that is figured out.

Whatever you decide to do, I hope it all gets cleared up.

Electro Harmonix tubes are fantastic..very highly rated with players and most guitar shops carry them because they are well liked...just a suggestion :wink:

+1. I've used the 6v6's and 12ax7's without any problems in a lot of my vintage amps. I tried JJ 6v6's but did'nt like the sound of them at all.

I run JJ 6v6's and haven't had any problem with them so far, what supplier did you use? Hot Rox and Watford valves both (as far as I'm aware) test their valves so shouldn't be a problem with either one of these.

Plenty of good old stock and used 6v6's out there for not a lot more $$$ if you look.

Hmmm....I have never had a problem with JJ 6V6's. I will observe this. IT is possible to insert JJ octal tubes in to soem tube sockets in ANY ORIENTATION AT ALL. That is, the locator pin is small enough so that the key does not prevent insertion in an incorrect orientation. I was astounded when I first discovered this, but I am now very careful to orient JJ octals properly...not by feel but by sight.
And....Ruby is not a manufacturer. Those Ruby 6V6's can be any tube on earth.....JJ, EH, Tung-sol, Sino.....the Ruby logo is simply a silkscreening for the distributor and does not indicate anything about what kind of tube you have with the Ruby logo on it. Same thing with Groove Tubes.

I don't think it would be fair to name the supplier at this point, they seem genuinely at a loss as to what is causing the problem.

After sleeping on it and with the much appreciated help of your input, I've decided not to take the matter any further and will probably continue to use the supplier as their initial response was, to be fair, excellent.

That's a real bombshell, Wally! Would a tube work at all if it were misaligned in the way you describe? I do know Ruby isn't a tube manufacturer... though I have heard Groove Tubes now actually makes certain tubes?

Maybe the JJs just don't like what they're getting from this circuit... I do like the vintage feel of true 6V6s anyway and already have a good amp running winged "C" 6L6s, so I'll happily give the Tung Sols a go. Might even try a pair of EHXs.

redstringguitar, if a tube is inserted into the socket incorrectly, it will not work properly. IT may blow a fuse. IT may take out a tranny. It may smoke up the tube. I have bought a vintage 5F6A amp that was blowing fuses. The fellow didn't want to pay to have the amp fixed. AFter I had bought the amp, which was an unknown quantity because it would do nothing more than blow fuses; I found that a power tube was misoriented due to a broken locator pin on the tube. I inserted the tube correctly and put in a new fuse. Voila! the amp came to life. The fellow had been asking me for 5 years why the amp would blow a fuse. I had told him numerous times that it could be any number of things causing it....but he wouldn't pay to have it fixed...I had never even seen the4 amp before the day I bought it. I got lucky on that one because the trannies were still in good shape despite the misorientation of that tube. Misoriented in another manner, the situation could have renedered the amp much less valuable. Howmuch did I give for a ratty looking
'59 5F6A covered in green vinyl paisley and that didn't work??? $600. I put another $500-600 in it. Eventually it sold for a lot of money....about 50% of the value of an exc cond all-orignal '59 5F6A. Had the misoriented tube taken out a tranny, the amp would not have been worth nearly that much. Risk taken and rewarded. IT coudl have gone another way, though.

Moral: always check the orientation of the power tubes even if the locator pin is there....especially with JJ octals. Adn...yes, a broken locator pin doesn't render a power tube or an octal rectiifier useless.

Heck of a good score Wally! :shock:

Just goes to show what a good idea it is to read up and learn about the gear you're using... or find a good amp guy if you're not happy working around high voltages.

I'll certainly be double checking tube orientation from now on and not relying on the locator key finding the slot by feel alone... which I have been guilty of many times.

REd, the only tubes I have ever come across that will fit into some sockets improperly even with a good locator pin are the modern JJ's....but I do take care with all tubes to make sure that hey are properlly oriented.

I've never had a problem with JJ's. All mine were purchased more than 2 or 3 years ago though.

I took delivery of another set of JJs yesterday which are on special offer from a different supplier and guess what?

The amp is working perfectly, singing like a bird!

I'll definitely be calling the supplier of the bad tubes Monday to let them know that a) they did in fact send me two consecutive sets of bad tubes, b) there is nothing wrong with my amp and c) I want my money back.

If they are not interested in playing fair, I'll be opening a Paypal dispute.

For 6V6's, I would buy "new old stock" from a reliable dealer, [on line??], who specializes in NOS. I bought 2 pairs almost twenty years ago for $30 dollars per set of two,.. [matched pairs of circa.1980, Phillips USA 6V6 GT JAN.,[joint army/navy]]... I put a set in, and today they are still sounding fabulous. They are in my 1980 Princeton Reverb amp,,,,, almost twenty years and I still have the other set. Year 1980 tubes in my 1980 amp. Pretty cool coincident........Also, NOS ["preamp" tubes] will lasts decades, even 50 years without a huge amount of use in them... I would think..? The 6V6's haven't gotten as expensive as the 6L6's have..... They don't make 'em like they used to.:grin:

Yup, NOS tubes are far superior to current production, Rod. Thing is, although it sounds really good with the upgraded speaker and tubes, this isn't a high-end amp... I'm somewhat reluctant to put the best tubes in it, if you know what I mean.

Glad you got it worked out, your new tubes should be good for a while as long as you don't cook them too often! I have a spare set of Sovtek 6V6's that I bought at the same time as my JJ's which are in the amp now, I also have 4 vintage various maker 6V6's I've picked up plus the valves that were actually in the amp when I bought it - Sylvania's dated Jul 1963. Sylvania's sound best but JJ's have more headroom so use them live, must try the Sovteks again sometime, can't remember what they sound like. I also bought a couple of replacement 7199 valves for the reverb but as it still has the original one in there I should be good for spares until well after I'm gone, maybe my son will use them eventually!

The extra headroom is exactly what I like about the JJs... they don't have that vintage character/breakup of true 6V6s but they do sound good in their own right and are ideal if you use pedals for dirt.

Yup, NOS tubes are far superior to current production, Rod. Thing is, although it sounds really good with the upgraded speaker and tubes, this isn't a high-end amp... I'm somewhat reluctant to put the best tubes in it, if you know what I mean.

I wonder how often one needs to change pwr. tubes that are the "NEW" ones, made today, such as the one's you speak of, --- JJ, Sovtek, etc. Can someone give some sort of average on how long the new ones last?? Thanks. I think that maybe the NOS tubes are a bargain if longevity is considered in the equation.. Maybe a huge bargain for many. ????

I wonder how often one needs to change pwr. tubes that are the "NEW" ones, made today, such as the one's you speak of, --- JJ, Sovtek, etc. Can someone give some sort of average on how long the new ones last?? Thanks. I think that maybe the NOS tubes are a bargain if longevity is considered in the equation.. Maybe a huge bargain for many. ????

Point taken... if a tube costs two or three times as much but lasts five or six times longer and sounds better, it's gotta be a bargain right?

My amp runs two 6V6s yet is only rated @ 10W, which points to a puny Chinese PT...running that through really good NOS tubes would be a bit like lipstick on a pig IMO.

reviews for the new production 6V6 tubes:

http://thetubestore.com/6v6review.html

while the test was done through a bassman, the tonal characteristics
should be similar in other amps as well. he really likes the JJ offering!

is your bias wrong for 6V6? he says he couldn't cook the JJ tubes.

mitchfit

Good link mitchfit, thanks for posting it!

The amp is still biased for the stock Ruby 6V6s... around half-way through the pot sweep. I need to get a better meter so I can get into biasing properly.

Point taken... if a tube costs two or three times as much but lasts five or six times longer and sounds better, it's gotta be a bargain right?

My amp runs two 6V6s yet is only rated @ 10W, which points to a puny Chinese PT...running that through really good NOS tubes would be a bit like lipstick on a pig IMO.

After seeing the review video, I must agree with you. I guess I'm a little behind times on the new tubes.. My apology.. By the way, I have had some winged C Svetlana 6L6s in my Reissue '63 brown Vibroverb, and they have sounded great since I got them new in 2005??? maybe... A long time. And now I may start buying new,.... well, I still have that set of JAN NOS 6V6s. I'll probably be long dead and gone before I need new pwr tubes for the Princeton Reverb.