$3k guitar

This is kind of a long story that I'll get to later, but strange circumstances put a poor slob like me (salary low enough to qualify for food stamps) in a position to buy a $3k guitar...something very cool and vintage.
My girlfriend asked, "What would you get if you spent $3k on a new guitar?"
Simple question....but not...right?
It's hard for me to imagine spending that kind of money on something that didn't have the (uh, oh...here it comes...) mojo of a vintage instrument...but maybe that's just because I love old lumber...
Also, there's the chance (hope) that a vintage piece will continue to go up in value and become an investment.
And we all know that a new $3k guitar is worth maybe $2500 as soon as you get it home...but folks still buy them (thank goodness!).
So....
I'm not even sure what the question is.
Maybe:
You've got $3k (give or take)...what do you do with it? Why?

You can't buy anything worthwhile for under $3,000 in the vintage market. There are things like Supros, Valcos, Nationals, other offbrand, but their price is volatile to say the least. Anything blue chip like a Fender or Gibson will set you back way more.

If you are worried about devaluation on a new guitar just buy second hand.

Also guitars are instruments not investments.

You've got $3k (give or take)...what do you do with it? Why?

Spend $1000 on a new guitar and buy a better amp.

<edit> and what imsilly said.

Can't understand why people see guitars as 'investments'. I drive a relatively expensive car, but I've never seen it as a hedge against the future. It just is what it is, I won't be handing it down to future generations.

Go for second hand Gretsch White Falcon or Gibson Les Paul.

Easy! A Teisco Spectrum 5! It's the Teisco Spectrum 5 of vintage guitars!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Teisco-Spectrum-5-Del-Ray-60s-Rare-Unusual-Vintage-/190674211276?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item2c651191cc#ht_899wt_1218

Top-notch 2nd hand Gibson LP for around 3000 USD.

True vintage does not start at 3K and if you buy a new guitar, it'll lose value the minute you take it out of the store. So buy 2nd hand, the best LP you can find. You can always sell it for the same price.

Cheers

David

You can still pick up nice mid early 70's Fenders for that price. Not sure if they will prove to be good investments.

As far as vintage goes you can pick up vintage mustangs and sg jrs for under 3k all day long. Same goes for es-125/es-150. I would probablly go for a fender cs though.

PRS DGT model. Goldtop, with moons. I wouldn't even have to think about it.

On a serious note: If you qualify for food stamps, I think that the better plan would be to put aside the $3,000. You won't find an account that pays much interest on that amount, but it would be better to put it in something that will be more secure than a guitar and represent more liquid income.

If you buy a $3,000 guitar from a dealer, it won't be worth $2,500 when you get it home. Take it back to the dealer, or to another knowledgeable dealer, and you will learn that the guitar loses about half its value when you walk out the door. Maybe you could sell it to another individual for $3,000; but it's more likely that another individual would give you, say, $2,000.

Perhaps the guitar will be worth $3,500 in a few years; perhaps it won't. The market is not inevitable.

If you're at the food-stamp level of income, you probably have a very small cushion. What if you become ill or suffer an injury and can't work for a couple of months? What if you have a problem with your car? If you have to sell your vintage guitar when you really need the cash, you'll probably find that the guitar is worth even less at that time.

So, very seriously, I'd suggest that you just sock away the $3,000 in a savings account. Each month you'll see about a penny of return on that amount. But at least the $3,000 won't disappear, and it will be there if you really need it.

And if you owe any credit card debt, do the smart thing and put the $3,000 toward that debt. That way you'll earn 12 or 16 or 20 percent or whatever the card rate is on that amount.

If you buy a $3,000 guitar from a dealer, it won't be worth $2,500 when you get it home. Take it back to the dealer, or to another knowledgeable dealer, and you will learn that the guitar loses about half its value when you walk out the door. Maybe you could sell it to another individual for $3,000; but it's more likely that another individual would give you, say, $2,000.

A: I agree, if the OP is on food stamps, I would suggest not buying ANY guitars.

However, this little bit of logic doesn't make sense at all. If a used guitar is worth $3K on the used market, if you pay that and take it home, why suddenly is it worth half of that?

Given that logic, if you sold a guitar to me for $3K, I could sell it to my bro for $1500, and he could probably only get half of his money back, right? So he could sell it to our buddy for $750.

Hell, a guitar that two days ago was worth $3K for just $750? Sign me up.

NEW guitars, when sold used, are worth about half of their new street price.

But if I buy a used guitar and keep it in that same condition, I should be able to sell it for about what I bought it for---ESPECIALLY immediately. Sure, the market could tank, sending prices down. But it doesn't happen hourly.

I'd get a refinished mid sixties Jazzmaster. I've been watching them lately and they seem to be going for $2000-$3500 depending on any or no factors at all.

A player-grade fender will be available in that price range. Last year I sold a refin / refret '69 tele for two grand. It won't appreciate like a mint pre-CBS guit but those are way more money to start with.

I think there are still some worthwhile vintage pieces for that kind of money. A lot of Epiphones from the 60s are still way cheap compared to Gibsons of the same vintage, made in the same factory. I just saw an Al Caiola go across CL for around a grand. (If I had the $$$ it would be mine today.)

But, you know, seriously, I think I've worked my way to the point that there's nothing to be gained by spending more money on my music. I have a few great guitars, only one of which is vintage. My #1 is a MIM, which I have gotten to play exactly the way I want it. I have enough effects and more nice amps than I need. I could easily pare down some more. So if I was faced with that question I would practice my a$$ off until I sounded great, then take the three grand and take my girlfriend to Italy.

You can't buy anything worthwhile for under $3,000 in the vintage market. There are things like Supros, Valcos, Nationals, other offbrand, but their price is volatile to say the least. Anything blue chip like a Fender or Gibson will set you back way more.

If you are worried about devaluation on a new guitar just buy second hand.

Also guitars are instruments not investments.

OMG, isn't that the truth. We have friend who is one of the vintage dealers to the stars so he "must" be rich, right? Well, you have employees, taxes, insurance, and rent. And don't forget, all that cool gear which has to be up to a certain inventory still does not come for free even though there is a generous markup. I always thought he was swimming in the money like the stars he knows and sells to.

There are so many smarter things to "invest" in rather than old guitars which have a truly limited base of buyers who can both afford and appreciate the aspects of a guitar with hummers with a sticker on the back of it or a Fender made when Fender was under a man, not CBS.

Anyway, to OP, if you want that vintage vibe and can't afford the real thing but don't want a new relic Fender, then buy a refin. It was the only way I could buy, and enjoy, my '65 and '68 teles. They had all the tone and mojo, but with shiny, new finishes which made all the real collectors pass on them.

OMG, isn't that the truth. We have friend who is one of the vintage dealers to the stars so he "must" be rich, right? Well, you have employees, taxes, insurance, and rent. And don't forget, all that cool gear which has to be up to a certain inventory still does not come for free even though there is a generous markup. I always thought he was swimming in the money like the stars he knows and sells to.

There are so many smarter things to "invest" in rather than old guitars which have a truly limited base of buyers who can both afford and appreciate the aspects of a guitar with hummers with a sticker on the back of it or a Fender made when Fender was under a man, not CBS.

Anyway, to OP, if you want that vintage vibe and can't afford the real thing but don't want a new relic Fender, then buy a refin. It was the only way I could buy, and enjoy, my '65 and '68 teles. They had all the tone and mojo, but with shiny, new finishes which made all the real collectors pass on them.


If I am spending that much I'm going to get what I want, and I do prefer the worn in feeling or "vintage vibe" to squeaky clean new. I was thinking about Custom Shop, but with some models, refins and players grade stuff is cheaper. Probably why you never see a Custom Shop 64' Mustang. You can get a mint 64' for two grand.

R9 Les Paul in a heartbeat.

I would buy a real nice acoustic...

I'd buy an HD-28. That's something you can give to your kids...and your grandkids...and their kids...

As for vintage electrics, though...yeah, I'm with purpletele, look for a Jazzmaster. I don't know what else you'd be able to find for that much that will also be an awesome guitar.

I'm not even sure what the question is.
Maybe:
You've got $3k (give or take)...what do you do with it? Why?
You know that saying "Things can't make you happy"? It's true, and there is a solid body of scientific research to support it.

On the other hand, there is also a solid body of scientific research that shows that experiences can make you happier, even though things can't.

Luckily, money can buy experiences as well as things. The wise way to spend it is to spend it on happy experiences rather than precious things (which will soon not seem so precious or special any more).

So if I had $3k to spend, I'd set aside most of it for a rainy day, and think about the happiest experiences I could buy with the rest. Maybe a fun little day or weekend trip with the wife (girlfriend in your case). Maybe six months of weekly music lessons - that would cost around $600 where I live, a lot less than the vintage guitars you're considering, and if you find the right teacher, it's guaranteed to make more of a difference in your music than any guitar you could ever buy.

Here's wishing you happiness, Charlie!

-Gnobuddy

R9 Les Paul in a heartbeat.

I would've said a used R7, especially with the gold market being what it is.

I'm also a big fan of canned goods and shotguns. Seriously, the only thing I can add is don't rush into this, buyers remorse is almost garaunteed. Don't buy anything much over $1K, take the wife/girlfriend out to dinner or vacation or buy her something nice. Don't leave her feeling unappreciated. Put the rest back, when you live this close to the edge disaster is always just around the corner. You just don't know where that corner is. Good luck and as always post pics

My dad used to tell us to always measure 7 times and cut only once. So I would agree with dog fart, think long and hard, decide if that's really going to help you be a better player, if you might think back and have a different heart, and by all means, take care of the wife/girlfriend as well. That'll take you far.

I bought a Trussart for a little over 3k, I've heard they are a lot more expensive now, so might not have been a bad investment, I also bought a 1967 Gibson Hummingbird that's probably not gonna depreciate anytime soon.
But to answer the OP's question, I would get a Glendale blackguard. http://www.glendaleguitars.com/guitars.htm

A: I agree, if the OP is on food stamps, I would suggest not buying ANY guitars.

However, this little bit of logic doesn't make sense at all. If a used guitar is worth $3K on the used market, if you pay that and take it home, why suddenly is it worth half of that?

Given that logic, if you sold a guitar to me for $3K, I could sell it to my bro for $1500, and he could probably only get half of his money back, right? So he could sell it to our buddy for $750.

Hell, a guitar that two days ago was worth $3K for just $750? Sign me up.

NEW guitars, when sold used, are worth about half of their new street price.

But if I buy a used guitar and keep it in that same condition, I should be able to sell it for about what I bought it for---ESPECIALLY immediately. Sure, the market could tank, sending prices down. But it doesn't happen hourly.

You are either a troll or very young.

If you read this forum at all regularly, you will find posts about people who get angry because dealers offer half of the retail price of used guitars.

Some people will pay an individual the same price for a used guitar that they would give to a dealer. I won't. A guitar from a dealer comes with at least one warranty: that is, a warranty of title. For the most part, even used guitars come from dealers with a warranty of merchantability. (I'm talking about sales in the United States, where sales of goods are governed by the Uniform Commercial Code.)

The warranty of title means that the dealer warrants that the title is good. The warranty of merchantability means that the good will pass without objection in the trade.

Individual sellers do not provide such warranties. That makes the goods they sell worth less.

I have bought and sold a lot of guitars. I've also bought and sold a lot of cars. Most people will not pay an individual the same price for a guitar or a car that they would give a dealer.

I understand the great advice about not buying anything if you qualify for food stamps...

BUT...I also love the advice about doing something nice for the little lady...

and if it was me, I would then do some shopping and get the best used guitar I could find. Life is short, live it while you can.

I would complete my shop and build it , not that my shop needs to be completed to do a build . Spend the rest on something nice for the woman or just save it .
You did ask .
I have seen Charlie play . He does not need lessons . :wink:

You can buy a new Gibson custom shop R8 or R7 for $3000. Other options: custom shop Fender, high end Gretsch, nice Martin acoustic, any number of awesome National Resophonic guitars.

That said, I wouldn't spend $3000 without knowing exactly what I wanted, as the 2500-3000 dollar guitars really aren't THAT much better than what you can get for $1700-$2200: Gibson LP trad, Fender AVRI models, GE Smith Telecaster, Rickenbacker 330 etc.

This is kind of a long story that I'll get to later, but strange circumstances put a poor slob like me (salary low enough to qualify for food stamps) in a position to buy a $3k guitar...something very cool and vintage.
My girlfriend asked, "What would you get if you spent $3k on a new guitar?"
Simple question....but not...right?
It's hard for me to imagine spending that kind of money on something that didn't have the (uh, oh...here it comes...) mojo of a vintage instrument...but maybe that's just because I love old lumber...
Also, there's the chance (hope) that a vintage piece will continue to go up in value and become an investment.
And we all know that a new $3k guitar is worth maybe $2500 as soon as you get it home...but folks still buy them (thank goodness!).
So....
I'm not even sure what the question is.
Maybe:
You've got $3k (give or take)...what do you do with it? Why?

i would pay my producer because he's so good looking.

a set of panhead cases with good numbers and paper

Get a 300 dollar guitar and bank the rest

I'd suggest a Gibson Historic Custom Shop electric guitar of your choice.
I'd get a "classic" that I really liked playing.
Take care of it, and it'll hold it's value, and eventually appreciate.
You can find em' used frequently for between $2000-$3000.
I have a couple of Les Pauls, a R9 and a 57 Custom RI, and play them
at home all the time.
I don't gig with them much, so no horror stories (yet).

Tiescoman has got it right, both posts. Especially in today's economic climate , I gather from many posts here that things in the US have been tough, unlike here. Our retail economy is now losing to the online sales sector, stores aren't carrying the stock they used to. Unless that $3000 guitar can earn you that and more it would be a foolish non-investment, also given your admission of your own situation.DON'T waste the money.Good luck!

hey a topic i know to well. ( i did a lot of things to survive but no point boring, and yes i had the proper riding gear/helmet and i started riding bikes when i was 5 so its not i f you will ever crash on a bike. its when and if luck is on your side ) was making great money as a logger. living the life. toys,girl,play time.. felt good, was in exlent shape. i was a faller, i ran a chainsaw all day. anyhow, one day i went for a ride on one of my toys. a tricked out RM250. one sat morning. coming around the corner the throttle stuck wide open. next thing i know my front tire is coming up in the air. i grabbed the front breaks, hit the kill switch and remember seeing a tree. next thing i know im at the bottom of the canyon. my legs where crossed over. first thing i did was move my toes always was told if you can move your toes know broken bones. well that my friends is bull-crap.
so anyhow, then i go to get up and yupp my left femur was sticking through my ridding cloths. and all i felt was the other half of the femur spinning inside my leg.
so i made a turnakit, with my shirt. pull my leg forward and push the bone back in and decided what to do. should i shut my eyes or die would of felt no paint at that point or crawl. well guess what i did not want my logger friends to think i was a girl/whimp/bad word here.. figured if i died crawling they cold not call me such. haah. stupid reason i know but that was my motivation. anyhow long story short. i crawled for two days over pit run ( larg rocks ) pushing with my right foot, and pull my self along with my arms. every time i hit a big rock the bone would pop though. about 30 mins into this two day adventure i started to feel the pain. out of shock.. anyhow. so i crashed around 9am sat morning, did not find help till about 8pm sunday. i can still remember arguing with the ambulance person they said they were gonna life flight me to portland or ( go ducks, boo beavers ) hospital. i was arguing because it was gonna be expensive i said my friends can drive me. anyhow. 6 months in the hospital, most of that time in traction. they had to cut 10 inches ( the metal the screwed into support the leg while they did bone grafs and thankfully the bone grew back doctors where surprised. honestly not sure why they did not just cut the leg off.. but one doctor said we can take it later so i guess doctors try to save body parts first? )went into my knee and then up my leg. i had over 50 operations.. fake knee in 2004 and the removed that metal make a nice wammy bar? )of my bone out because of infection etc. and then it took me two years to walk again. i only mention this because i never ever thought about getting hurt. i did have all my toys paid for but not much in savings. so, as you know medical not cheap.
i had to sell every thing. lost the girl, lost the way of my old life. so i say put the money in the savings account, take a couple hundred bucks out and go have a nice weekend trip/dinner with your girl. and enjoy life to the fullest. o yeah forgot to mention i died for two minutes too. hah. nope did not see anything.

so now, im on disability and it dose not pay much. thankfully my family is helping. or i would be on the streets. and funny thing is you mention food stamps yeah i qualify but since im a man. i would oly get a 100.00 but if i was a women i get almost a grand.
do not understand but whatever, least i have no kids to worry about. just have my self, and now my new found love guitars.
thats my advice. rock on.

i do not think a vintage guitar is a good investment. maybe if its a original 59less paul. but thats probably one of the few, or maybe a prototype fender etc.

chris.

p.s
they said i crawled a mile and half in them two days not bad eh. lol

picture of the scars from the accident. yeah it runs all the way up to my hip and is about a inch wide and wider in some spots.

http://i39.tinypic.com/aucg9z.jpg

and this is after a fake knee install.

http://i44.tinypic.com/111pg76.jpg

and of course i messed my back up so you get one of these do dads put in.. but i had them remove it later it did not work like advertised go figure. haha

http://i39.tinypic.com/2sajn2q.jpg


i did not inbed them out of respect i know some do not like gore.
life marches on. do not take it serious.. and live the best you can.
chris.

I would complete my shop and build it , not that my shop needs to be completed to do a build . Spend the rest on something nice for the woman or just save it .
You did ask .
I have seen Charlie play . He does not need lessons . :wink:

otter! he should pay his producer!!!! (we can split later)

hey a topic i know to well. ( i did a lot of things to survive but no point boring, and yes i had the proper riding gear/helmet and i started riding bikes when i was 5 so its not i f you will ever crash on a bike. its when and if luck is on your side ) was making great money as a logger. living the life. toys,girl,play time.. felt good, was in exlent shape. i was a faller, i ran a chainsaw all day. anyhow, one day i went for a ride on one of my toys. a tricked out RM250. one sat morning. coming around the corner the throttle stuck wide open. next thing i know my front tire is coming up in the air. i grabbed the front breaks, hit the kill switch and remember seeing a tree. next thing i know im at the bottom of the canyon. my legs where crossed over. first thing i did was move my toes always was told if you can move your toes know broken bones. well that my friends is bull-crap.
so anyhow, then i go to get up and yupp my left femur was sticking through my ridding cloths. and all i felt was the other half of the femur spinning inside my leg.
so i made a turnakit, with my shirt. pull my leg forward and push the bone back in and decided what to do. should i shut my eyes or die would of felt no paint at that point or crawl. well guess what i did not want my logger friends to think i was a girl/whimp/bad word here.. figured if i died crawling they cold not call me such. haah. stupid reason i know but that was my motivation. anyhow long story short. i crawled for two days over pit run ( larg rocks ) pushing with my right foot, and pull my self along with my arms. every time i hit a big rock the bone would pop though. about 30 mins into this two day adventure i started to feel the pain. out of shock.. anyhow. so i crashed around 9am sat morning, did not find help till about 8pm sunday. i can still remember arguing with the ambulance person they said they were gonna life flight me to portland or ( go ducks, boo beavers ) hospital. i was arguing because it was gonna be expensive i said my friends can drive me. anyhow. 6 months in the hospital, most of that time in traction. they had to cut 10 inches ( the metal the screwed into support the leg while they did bone grafs and thankfully the bone grew back doctors where surprised. honestly not sure why they did not just cut the leg off.. but one doctor said we can take it later so i guess doctors try to save body parts first? )went into my knee and then up my leg. i had over 50 operations.. fake knee in 2004 and the removed that metal make a nice wammy bar? )of my bone out because of infection etc. and then it took me two years to walk again. i only mention this because i never ever thought about getting hurt. i did have all my toys paid for but not much in savings. so, as you know medical not cheap.
i had to sell every thing. lost the girl, lost the way of my old life. so i say put the money in the savings account, take a couple hundred bucks out and go have a nice weekend trip/dinner with your girl. and enjoy life to the fullest. o yeah forgot to mention i died for two minutes too. hah. nope did not see anything.

so now, im on disability and it dose not pay much. thankfully my family is helping. or i would be on the streets. and funny thing is you mention food stamps yeah i qualify but since im a man. i would oly get a 100.00 but if i was a women i get almost a grand.
do not understand but whatever, least i have no kids to worry about. just have my self, and now my new found love guitars.
thats my advice. rock on.

i do not think a vintage guitar is a good investment. maybe if its a original 59less paul. but thats probably one of the few, or maybe a prototype fender etc.

chris.

p.s
they said i crawled a mile and half in them two days not bad eh. lol

picture of the scars from the accident. yeah it runs all the way up to my hip and is about a inch wide and wider in some spots.

http://i39.tinypic.com/aucg9z.jpg

and this is after a fake knee install.

http://i44.tinypic.com/111pg76.jpg

and of course i messed my back up so you get one of these do dads put in.. but i had them remove it later it did not work like advertised go figure. haha

http://i39.tinypic.com/2sajn2q.jpg

i did not inbed them out of respect i know some do not like gore.
life marches on. do not take it serious.. and live the best you can.
chris.

Heck of a story, man. By the way, I lived in Cottage Grove and Eugene for ten years. I am a Duck (law Duck, but still a Duck).

Take care of yourself, and best of luck.

Get a 300 dollar guitar and bank the rest

+1
I agree.
Anything over $300 is a status charge.

Nothing vintage. I would get a Gretsch hollowbody or an ES-175.

If you are on a salary low enough to qualify for food stamps then my first question is to ask if you have any sort of outstanding debt? If the answer is "yes" then the best advice I can give you is to use the $3K to pay it off, or as much of it as you can.

If you're free of debt, go find a nice '52 AVRI. It's a better guitar than Fender was ever making during just about any "vintage" period. Get a good one (new or used) and keep it forever. Save the balance in an "emergency" fund.

1. Pay off any debt
2. Set aside a portion-a "rainy day" fund
3. Buy yourself or significant other something nice with what's left.

You are either a troll or very young.

If you read this forum at all regularly, you will find posts about people who get angry because dealers offer half of the retail price of used guitars.

Some people will pay an individual the same price for a used guitar that they would give to a dealer. I won't. A guitar from a dealer comes with at least one warranty: that is, a warranty of title. For the most part, even used guitars come from dealers with a warranty of merchantability. (I'm talking about sales in the United States, where sales of goods are governed by the Uniform Commercial Code.)

The warranty of title means that the dealer warrants that the title is good. The warranty of merchantability means that the good will pass without objection in the trade.

Individual sellers do not provide such warranties. That makes the goods they sell worth less.

I have bought and sold a lot of guitars. I've also bought and sold a lot of cars. Most people will not pay an individual the same price for a guitar or a car that they would give a dealer.

Nice! Calling me a troll when you either (a) didn't read my post or (b)had a hard time comprehending it. And then pulling out the expert card.."I've bought and sold a lot of guitars". So you're the one! I figured that this forum probably had the one guy on earth that had bought and sold some guitars. The rest of us bow to your superior wisdom.

Sorry, bub, but it's an incontrovertible fact that things have a market value. If guitar X has a market value of, let's say $10, then it has a market value of $10 in that condition (assuming, for the sake of argument, that the market is steady and not wildly rising or lowering overall prices/value).

IF you had read my post, you would have seen that I said yes, a NEW $10 guitar will be worth about $5 when you try to sell it used. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less. Depends on that particular model. That's because (IMHO) new guitars are typically overpriced. You get a much better value buying used (kinda like cars).

But if you by a USED guitar that's worth $10 on the USED market, if you then try to resell it on that same used market, in the same condition, IT HAS THE SAME VALUE BECAUSE ALL MARKET FORCES ARE THE SAME.

So let's just say we have a 50's Classic Tele that sold new for $699, but you bought it two years later, used, for half of that: $350. It was a 9 outta 10 in terms of condition.

So you paid $350. Maybe you get in an accident and your arms are ripped off, so you can't play guitar anymore.

What would you try to sell that guitar for? By your logic, half of what you paid. So $175. Right?

No, you'd try to sell it for $350. Or $400. Because assuming it's in the same condition as when you bought it, and the market is steady, it's worth the same used (now) as it was worth used two months ago.

If you don't agree with that, you don't understand basic economics, and I can't really help fix that.

Re-read my post and you'll see that's exactly what I said before. Then tell me if I'm a troll. :rolleyes:

Buying a guitar as an investment is like trying to have your cake and eat it too: not easily done.

As others have noted, you can't be sure that you'll be able to "cash out" for what you paid when the time comes, let alone make a profit.

But there are other reasons I think it's a bad idea.

Owning a guitar of that price, you're faced with a choice: play it or baby it.

If you see it as a tool, you'll play it. Any time you take it out of its case, it's at risk of an accident which could dramatically affect its value. Would you eat your cereal out of a $3000 ceramic bowl?

If you see it as an investment, then you're not actually having the fun of owning your dream guitar because all you can do is strum it gently in your bedroom. It becomes like any other investment, except that it's a bigger liability than most. The only payoff is that you get to fondle a vintage instrument and call it your own.

Also, what happens if the reality of a vintage guitar doesn't live up to the dream? What if you don't continue to get the joy you thought you would from it? What if you decide that the sound isn't really what you're after? Are you going to change the pickups in a vintage classic? Are you going to be stuck with all your money tied up in an instrument that isn't working for you, but which you can't sell because it's a down market?

Conversely, what if you LOVE this guitar, but your financial situation takes an unexpected turn and you need the cash. If that 3k was in an investment account, you would have no qualms about liquidating it. But selling off a beloved guitar is like giving away your favorite pet. Not so easy.

I'm a player, not a collector, so $3K would go a mile. Collectors like unmolested guitars. To me, if it sounds good it has to be played - for mine an un-played 50 yo guitar is a waste of time. But, collectors see a guitar as an appreciating art piece, not as a tool. Whatever floats your boat - but I have no lust for J Geils $250K 1959 Les Paul listed on Ebay at the moment.

I have a rule of $1K... pretty obvious, and it's fun to stick to... I like $1000 guitars, you can find/build awesome players that sound as good as any guitar ever built within this budget - anything more is just ego candy.

That said - with $3000, i'd buy an American Standard Strat, a P90 Gibson, and a Mission 5E3 amp.

Teiscoman: heck yeah. another Oregonian. thought i was alone. i grew up in a small logging community about 3 hours from seaside in the mountains. if i wold of known i was gonna be using English years later i sure would not of let mrs. chow keep me in the hall way all of the 6th grade year. laughs. in my town it was pretty much you became a logger, went off to collage ( one of the old family's with lots of money and probably owned a logging company) if you were a women babys. heck we had games in grade school and high school teaching you how to log before you were even graduated. they were fun and we did not see it as pre training for working in the woods. but little of the ops sorry.

yeah if you find your self in the same situation. shut your eyes and just rest in peace. thats what i would of done if i had to do it again. LOL
rock on.

with cnc machines and what not. not a whole lot of diffrence between a 600.00 guitar and a 1k either. all comes down to what kind of money you make is it stable, retire at it. buy the most expensive thing you want. but i still think one should be ready for a accident. even if its some 10.00 a month insurance.

go ducks@@
chris.

chris.

So much stuff here!
Let me start by saying the only post I FLAT OUT disagree with is the one about paying my producer!
Bwaaaaaaaahahahahahaha!
And also the one about me not needing lessons...but I appreciate the props.
Where else to begin?
I would start by trying to avoid telling the guy who, about 10 years ago, bought my '71 LP for $850, that he didn't make a good investment in a guitar.
I have been "investing" in guitars for a couple years now...low end stuff.
Keep an eye out for a deal, buy smart, pay 350, sell for 450...
Believe me...this is a BIG deal for me.
It has been many years since I've had money to play with.
We live in a very small house/cottage, heat with wood, grow some of our food, virtually never eat at a restaurant or stay in a hotel, my car is over 20 years old, etc....
I carry a couple hundred dollars in credit card debt...just enough to keep making regular monthly payments and keep my credit rating up.
This motorcycle I sold was supposed to be part of a meager nest-egg, so when it went and there was money left over, I really wanted to put it somewhere that it had, at least, a chance of growing, and, to be honest, I could have a bit of fun with it.
Believe me...I understand the people invested in Enron, too...I'm not so naive to think that "investment" is synonymous with "guaranteed return". But I figure, if I keep my head and buy right, I'm pretty sure I won't take too much of a beating even if the market goes down.
Stuff that I've bought is in excellent shape and considerably below the low end of book value...there are deals to be made.
And...I'd like to address the idea that stuff doesn't make one happy...it's total bull....HAR!...only kidding.
I don't know if this will make me come off as arrogant or, at least, a fool...but having some extra money has been a real burden on me (I know...boohooo). But really...
I don't want to just spend it because I want to have it down the road and, I really believe that the more stuff you have, the less free you are...you have to care for it, store it, maintain it, worry about it getting damaged or stolen...I'm not a "stuff" guy. I'm as likely as not to just give something to someone who admires it.
So...there are 2 areas that I know enough about to have a CHANCE of investing wisely...motorcycles and guitars...so I'm taking a few chances, having a little fun and hoping for the best.
We've also spent some of the money on home maintenance and Punkin' really wanted a garden this year, but it's hard work with an infant in arms, so I got a guy to come over and till her garden and spread compost. She was thrilled.
Soon we're going to get a shed, some fence and some animals and start our homestead/farmette.
AND...last night I gigged the coolest, most valuable guitar I've ever owned and...I ain't gonna lie to ya....it was damn cool!
And I'll do it again tonight.
This thread took quite a turn, eh?
Money changes everything!

otter! he should pay his producer!!!! (we can split later)
That is just plain cold . No thanks . Not my style .
Compared to me , you don't need no stinking lessons .
What is this coolest , most valuable guitar that you have ever owned ? Not true without pics .

I agree with the posts that suggest putting that money aside, at your income level it's near essential to have some fall back savings.

I can totally relate to Jipp, you never think it'll happen to you. I was earning £60k per year, got rushed to hospital and my life hasn't been the same since. I suffer from an incurable and chronic illness and unable to work have gone from £60,000 a year to just £80 per week disability. You never know what's around the corner and it's important to have a backup plan if things go awry.

I had to sell off all my guitars, basses and studio equipment and recouped just over £10k in the process. I now have just a Squier CVC, a MIM Esquire and a Squier bass. I love them all and don't miss my big price ticket guitars one bit. You can have just as much fun with a $300 guitar as you can with a $3000 guitar.

Unless you spend big on a quality vintage, buying as an investment is a dicy move and often you'll be paying for the brand name, history etc.. and still not necessarily get something that's a better playing or sounding guitar than something you can get for a fraction of the price.

Be sensible with your cash and look to the future is my advice.

Otter...I hope you were joking about Mickey's remark...I know he was.
He's been recording some stuff for me at no cost and he knows that I'm extremely appreciative and more than a little uncomfortable with the fact that he's helped me out a lot and I still haven't had the chance to return the favor...so he takes the opportunity to twist the knife a little...in a good-natured way, that is!!
As for the guitar...I was just about to post a couple pics, but it seems that the girlfriend has gone out with the camera!

I'm not sure how much value they'll gain over the next few years, but I think that the Gibson L6 is a great deal since they sell for about half as much as Gibson wants for their reissue and they have that 6 way switch on them so they have a wide variety of tones. Even the Midnight Special, with its 3 way switch, sounds awesome if it sounds anything like my Encore clone of it.

I have seen Charlie play . He does not need lessons . :wink:
With all due respect, I will never understand this particular point of view. Classical musicians at the top of their form always have a music teacher from whom they take lessons. The worlds greatest artists take art classes from other artists. Top notch scientists go to conferences to learn new things from other scientists in the field.

Popular music - good popular music - is no different. David Gilmour took saxophone lessons along with his little son - and eventually, became good enough to feature his own sax solos on his recent recordings. The man is in his sixties, and he's still developing as a musician. (Check out the "Remember That Night" DVD to hear some of Gilmour's sax solos.)

All these people continue to take lessons because their fields are endless, and there is always more to learn. There is always someone out there with a different and maybe better idea. There are always weaknesses in our own skills or artistic development which we ourselves may be blind to (but a good teacher will find them). There are always opportunities to grow and expand that we might not see for ourselves.

I've never yet met a musician who had nothing left to learn. Clapton with his endless pentatonic licks could learn a lot from Pat Metheny, master of jazz guitar. Pat Metheny could learn a lot from Jeff Beck, master of the most obscure Stratocaster playing technique on the planet. And Beck could probably learn a lot from Metheny too, though he (Beck) is no slouch at jazz guitar himself, even though it's not his chosen genre.

Music is a living, evolving art. Nobody is too good for lessons, not unless they want to stop growing as a musician and limit themselves to being stuck in one spot.

-Gnobuddy

^^ what he said ^^

You can never stop learning....

OK...really...what's better?
This, or a liddo pile of pictures of Ben Franklin?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/charliechitlins/DSCN2299.jpg

If I didn't have to worry about money I'd take the guitar for sure. Sadly I'm on a very limited income so I'd have have to pick the pile of Franklin's...

OK...really...what's better?
This, or a liddo pile of pictures of Ben Franklin?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/charliechitlins/DSCN2299.jpg
That's a beautiful guitar!

Charlie, you seem like a smart man with a very level head, and you certainly don't need any advice from me.

That said, purely for the sake of discussion, my answer to your question is that there is a third option you didn't mention: you can get a nice jazz box without having to give away that many Franklin portraits for it!

For example, I have a Dean Palomino I bought from a Craigslist seller for around three of those Franklin portraits. It was in perfect condition other than the fretboard needing a good cleaning.

I know very well that a Palomino is certainly very far from being the best archtop guitar on the planet. Nobody is ever going to mistake it for a D'Angelico instrument. The Palomino's carved top is too thick and the whole guitar is way too beefy to be really "live" when you play it unplugged. In fact it's so heavy and strong you could probably beat off an angry bull with it, without hurting the guitar.

But it is a decent guitar all the same, and once I'd cleaned the fretboard and put some fresh strings on, it turned out to be very playable. Three pickups that look like P-90's isn't exactly typical for a jazz-oriented archtop, but it does work - with the five-position pickup selector, this thing is reasonably versatile, and it can make sounds from warm and muted jazz box territory all the way to spanky-clean Stratocaster sounds. It doesn't have the rich harmonic texture of a Heritage archtop, sure, but it also doesn't suffer from feedback problems as much, and when you need to be heard through the mix, it's capable of much brighter tones than traditional archtops.

There's so much fun to be had in the guitar world with far, far, far less than thirty Benjamin Franklins required as the price of entry!

-Gnobuddy

Otter...I hope you were joking about Mickey's remark...I know he was.
He's been recording some stuff for me at no cost and he knows that I'm extremely appreciative and more than a little uncomfortable with the fact that he's helped me out a lot and I still haven't had the chance to return the favor...so he takes the opportunity to twist the knife a little...in a good-natured way, that is!!
As for the guitar...I was just about to post a couple pics, but it seems that the girlfriend has gone out with the camera!
No worries , as I am aware of Mickey's sense of humor .

With all due respect, I will never understand this particular point of view. Classical musicians at the top of their form always have a music teacher from whom they take lessons. The worlds greatest artists take art classes from other artists. Top notch scientists go to conferences to learn new things from other scientists in the field.

Popular music - good popular music - is no different. David Gilmour took saxophone lessons along with his little son - and eventually, became good enough to feature his own sax solos on his recent recordings. The man is in his sixties, and he's still developing as a musician. (Check out the "Remember That Night" DVD to hear some of Gilmour's sax solos.)

All these people continue to take lessons because their fields are endless, and there is always more to learn. There is always someone out there with a different and maybe better idea. There are always weaknesses in our own skills or artistic development which we ourselves may be blind to (but a good teacher will find them). There are always opportunities to grow and expand that we might not see for ourselves.

I've never yet met a musician who had nothing left to learn. Clapton with his endless pentatonic licks could learn a lot from Pat Metheny, master of jazz guitar. Pat Metheny could learn a lot from Jeff Beck, master of the most obscure Stratocaster playing technique on the planet. And Beck could probably learn a lot from Metheny too, though he (Beck) is no slouch at jazz guitar himself, even though it's not his chosen genre.

Music is a living, evolving art. Nobody is too good for lessons, not unless they want to stop growing as a musician and limit themselves to being stuck in one spot.

-Gnobuddy
Ges u told me .
i simple am not intelijent enouf to understand the meenin of wat you hav posted . Cud you explan this so that i may understand ? try to use nothin larjer than to silibul wordz or I wil get lost very quikle .

For $3000, any Fender would have to be a pre-63 with some chance to rise in value, to me. If I were buying something for me to, play for that money, the only guitar I've played that I think might be worth it is a PRS semi-hollow. I passed on one that was originally $4800 and sat in a smaller Guitar Center for 4 years....dropping a few hundred every few months. Right after I played it (it was then at $2700), it sold. Great playing, great tone. Most guitars.....in 5 minutes of playing, I can start rattling off what is wrong with it. This one.......nothing.

I'm a big Music Man fan and some of their guitars are truely top of the industry. Mine are all in the $1k-$2k range and I bought all mine used, so let the first guy take the 50% hit. They do have some of the limited edition, special wood versions that hit $3k and have a small, new line (forget the name) that I'm sure will be even more. I find that the ones in my price range do everything I want.

Maybe another line is Collings. I've played a City Limits (their Les Paul) for about an hour and it was spectacular. That particular one was $6k new and the owner who I knew just paid $1300 for it, so...so much for investment. I have played a few archtop Collings also, which were in the $5500 to $6500 range. While really nice, I couldn't see where they were THAT much better than my 69 Guild archtop (probably worth $1600 today).

If you don't have to spend the whole $3k on a guitar, why do it? For $1-$2k, you should be able to find an exquisite guitar and put the rest away.

i simple am not intelijent enouf to understand the meenin of wat you hav posted.
Rough day, otterhound?

We all have our grumpy days, but remember, this is a discussion forum. When you post an opinion, you can expect to get discussion about it. And not everybody will see things the same way you do. That doesn't mean they're trying to show you up or pick a fight with you or hurt your feelings, it just means they disagree with your opinion.

In this particular case, I do not see things the same way as you. As I said, I've never met a musician who could not benefit from music lessons from the right teacher.

There's room in the world for more than one opinion. You keep yours, I'll keep mine, we'll both go out and enjoy our own lives, how about that?

Have a good day, my friend.

-Gnobuddy

Rough day, otterhound?

We all have our grumpy days, but remember, this is a discussion forum. When you post an opinion, you can expect to get discussion about it. And not everybody will see things the same way you do. That doesn't mean they're trying to show you up or pick a fight with you or hurt your feelings, it just means they disagree with your opinion.

In this particular case, I do not see things the same way as you. As I said, I've never met a musician who could not benefit from music lessons from the right teacher.

There's room in the world for more than one opinion. You keep yours, I'll keep mine, we'll both go out and enjoy our own lives, how about that?

Have a good day, my friend.

-Gnobuddy
Thanks for having the courtesy to tell what my intent was .
Rest assured that I will not extend that courtesy to you .
Your posts show that you have no comprehension of my opinion , but you could always take some lessons .
I have never met anyone that knew everything that there is to know . Am I permitted to post that ?
By the way , you have gotten me so wrong . Now , that is a lesson .

Thanks for having the courtesy to tell what my intent was .
Rest assured that I will not extend that courtesy to you .
Your posts show that you have no comprehension of my opinion , but you could always take some lessons .
I have never met anyone that knew everything that there is to know . Am I permitted to post that ?
By the way , you have gotten me so wrong .
Uh huh. I think you've just told the world quite a bit more about yourself than you intended to.

That's the funny thing about trying to make someone else look bad. It has a way of backfiring.

Have a good day.

-Gnobuddy

Beautiful guitar Charlie. Between that and the upgrades around the homeplace, I'd say you did real good. Play it in health for a long time.

Rough day, otterhound?

We all have our grumpy days, but remember, this is a discussion forum. When you post an opinion, you can expect to get discussion about it. And not everybody will see things the same way you do. That doesn't mean they're trying to show you up or pick a fight with you or hurt your feelings, it just means they disagree with your opinion.

In this particular case, I do not see things the same way as you. As I said, I've never met a musician who could not benefit from music lessons from the right teacher.

There's room in the world for more than one opinion. You keep yours, I'll keep mine, we'll both go out and enjoy our own lives, how about that?

Have a good day, my friend.

-Gnobuddy

we don't all feel the compulsion to lecture people in every single thread we enter.

charlie that is the coolest guitar EVER.

it completely fits you.

now be sure to take out a separate insurance policy on it. the second they find out you play anywhere, home owners will not cover it.

delete

charlie that is the coolest guitar EVER.

it completely fits you.

now be sure to take out a separate insurance policy on it. the second they find out you play anywhere, home owners will not cover it.

Thank for the tip, bud! :wink:
Let's record it!

Also...I find these Gretsches to be sort of amazing deals.
This is an all original, excellent condition instrument with OHSC.
What year Strat or Tele in that shape do you get for that money?
'72? '73?
Not much choice for me...the Gretsch or a 3-bolt Strat?

Beautiful guitar Charlie. Between that and the upgrades around the homeplace, I'd say you did real good. Play it in health for a long time.

Thank you.

OK...really...what's better?
This, or a liddo pile of pictures of Ben Franklin?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/charliechitlins/DSCN2299.jpg

Wow, that is a beautiful one. You did really well!

With all due respect, I will never understand this particular point of view. Classical musicians at the top of their form always have a music teacher from whom they take lessons. The worlds greatest artists take art classes from other artists. Top notch scientists go to conferences to learn new things from other scientists in the field.

I think it was meant as a compliment, not a statement that anyone can quit because there's nothing left to learn...

Tim

I think it was meant as a compliment, not a statement that anyone can quit because there's nothing left to learn...

Tim

The voice of reason

I think it was meant as a compliment, not a statement that anyone can quit because there's nothing left to learn...

Tim
Funny thing that I never stated that charlie couldn't learn anything from taking lessons from anyone .
I will say it again . He does not need lessons . Please note the operative word NEED . Geez .

OK...really...what's better?
This, or a liddo pile of pictures of Ben Franklin?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/charliechitlins/DSCN2299.jpg


I am just quoting this because this thread needs more pics of this sweet guitar :cool:

I am just quoting this because this thread needs more pics of this sweet guitar :cool:

i agree. i am in love with charlie's guitar.

OK...as long as I'm being chastised for spending too much money....
There was a little left over after the Electro II.
Can you say, "Gretsch Esquire"?
'59 Chet Atkins Tennessean
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/charliechitlins/DSCN2301.jpg

Nice! Calling me a troll when you either (a) didn't read my post or (b)had a hard time comprehending it. And then pulling out the expert card.."I've bought and sold a lot of guitars". So you're the one! I figured that this forum probably had the one guy on earth that had bought and sold some guitars. The rest of us bow to your superior wisdom.

Sorry, bub, but it's an incontrovertible fact that things have a market value. If guitar X has a market value of, let's say $10, then it has a market value of $10 in that condition (assuming, for the sake of argument, that the market is steady and not wildly rising or lowering overall prices/value).

IF you had read my post, you would have seen that I said yes, a NEW $10 guitar will be worth about $5 when you try to sell it used. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less. Depends on that particular model. That's because (IMHO) new guitars are typically overpriced. You get a much better value buying used (kinda like cars).

But if you by a USED guitar that's worth $10 on the USED market, if you then try to resell it on that same used market, in the same condition, IT HAS THE SAME VALUE BECAUSE ALL MARKET FORCES ARE THE SAME.

So let's just say we have a 50's Classic Tele that sold new for $699, but you bought it two years later, used, for half of that: $350. It was a 9 outta 10 in terms of condition.

So you paid $350. Maybe you get in an accident and your arms are ripped off, so you can't play guitar anymore.

What would you try to sell that guitar for? By your logic, half of what you paid. So $175. Right?

No, you'd try to sell it for $350. Or $400. Because assuming it's in the same condition as when you bought it, and the market is steady, it's worth the same used (now) as it was worth used two months ago.

If you don't agree with that, you don't understand basic economics, and I can't really help fix that.

Re-read my post and you'll see that's exactly what I said before. Then tell me if I'm a troll. :rolleyes:

Why don't you re-read my post? I never wrote or subscribed to the absurd argument that you post here.

Here are facts:

1. Go buy a guitar from a dealer for $3,000. Then offer that same guitar to another dealer. The likelihood is that the dealer will offer you about 50 percent of the retail value of the guitar.

I'm not describing some system of logic here. I'm describing the situation as it exists in the world.

2. Go buy a guitar from a dealer for $3,000 and offer it for sale to an individual. Most individuals will not pay an individual the same amount for a guitar that they will pay a dealer for the same guitar.

That situation, too, is well known.

3. New guitars are not "typically overpriced." Where do you get logic like that? If new guitars were "typically overpriced," people wouldn't buy them. But people do willingly pay retail prices for new guitars.

4. Market value is typically defined as the price some good would fetch at auction (along with some other definitions). When an individual buys a guitar from a retailer, that is not a purchase at auction. When an individual sells a guitar to a retailer, that is not a sale at auction.

You know, I have deposed expert economists and tied them in knots. You're not an economist. You appear to have no actual understanding of how things work in the real world.

For three grand on the used market the world is almost yer oyster. I'd spend half that (still a gazillion great options) and bank the rest.

Why don't you re-read my post? I never wrote or subscribed to the absurd argument that you post here.

Here are facts:

1. Go buy a guitar from a dealer for $3,000. Then offer that same guitar to another dealer. The likelihood is that the dealer will offer you about 50 percent of the retail value of the guitar.

I'm not describing some system of logic here. I'm describing the situation as it exists in the world.

2. Go buy a guitar from a dealer for $3,000 and offer it for sale to an individual. Most individuals will not pay an individual the same amount for a guitar that they will pay a dealer for the same guitar.

That situation, too, is well known.

3. New guitars are not "typically overpriced." Where do you get logic like that? If new guitars were "typically overpriced," people wouldn't buy them. But people do willingly pay retail prices for new guitars.

4. Market value is typically defined as the price some good would fetch at auction (along with some other definitions). When an individual buys a guitar from a retailer, that is not a purchase at auction. When an individual sells a guitar to a retailer, that is not a sale at auction.

You know, I have deposed expert economists and tied them in knots. You're not an economist. You appear to have no actual understanding of how things work in the real world.

C'mon, fellas.
Play nice.

OK...as long as I'm being chastised for spending too much money....
There was a little left over after the Electro II.
Can you say, "Gretsch Esquire"?
'59 Chet Atkins Tennessean
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/charliechitlins/DSCN2301.jpg

Nice. This is one of my favorite guitars, not even just Gretsches of all tine.

You done good.

OK...as long as I'm being chastised for spending too much money....
There was a little left over after the Electro II.
Can you say, "Gretsch Esquire"?
'59 Chet Atkins Tennessean
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/charliechitlins/DSCN2301.jpg

I think you did fine and it's 3K not 30K or 300K.

That second Gretsch is also a beauty!

Where do you find such great guitars?

I never find stuff this nice unless I leave town and I am still too scared to buy eBay not knowing exactly what one gets. Even if the guitar is perfect by the standards of that guitar, I may still not like the way it plays or sounds. Thank God for the few remaining music stores so I can try stuff out and plug them in if they are used gear.

Sometimes I buy something sight unseen/unheard and years ago I did that with a PAF, but it was that legendary PAF so I pulled the trigger. Back then I wanted two specific sounds (one which was modern and would sound good with a BOSS chorus/flanger and one which was good for '80s metal). It was awful for both even though it was perfect for blues, jazz, and roots rock (all of which I had no love for back then). The pickup made any amp sound like a 10 watt amp and it was so microphonic it squealed easily. Today I would kill for that sound.

I hope you had a chance to try out the Gretsches and see if they fit your style.

I say used Fender Custom Shop or used AVRI and still have $$ left over.

I think guitar shows in major metros are great ways to see amd play lots of really high quality guitars and amps.

Where do you find such great guitars?



I hope you had a chance to try out the Gretsches and see if they fit your style.

Y'know...they were both leaps of faith in their own way.
The Electro came from a guy whom I met through an internet bulletin board, and he is a very straight-up guy.
The Tenny was a Hail Mary pass. One of those Ebay deals where the owner gave a bad description and posted bad pics, so folks stayed away.
A couple correspondences with the guy helped me figure out that it had been bought from an estate sale and was hardly played.
I just got lucky with both.