Lacquer checking within weeks?

I was reading an article on MJT and his Fender Relic finishes. He said turn around time for custom orders was 3 weeks.

I can understand color coats, clear coats, wet sand and buff out being done inside a 2 week timeframe, but how is getting lacquer to check and craze as significantly as he does in such a short window of time?

Do you think he has a backstock of bodies already finished in various colors and only awaiting a customer line up before the age / relic the finish?

Or is it an optimum lacquer mix and application?

My lacquered finishes under a month old craze a tiny bit when put in the freezer but then heal themselves immedietely. Frustrating.

:lol:Probably heat it up then freeze it should work but I havnt tried it .it has happened by mistake on some model autos though .:lol:

Don't they rub some kind of dye mix into the cracks as soon as they happen? That might stop them from healing.

I'm sure big companies like that have them cured waay in advance and "bang em' out" at will. My buddy here confirmed Nash Guitars "bang em' out" as well. I guess there's nothing wrong with that type of production as long as quality is still there.

I can see it now, a 2 dozen assembly line smashing away and a freeze box of guitars hanging like a meat locker room, LOL!

I'm pretty sure there are mixtures of nitro that are designed to check almost imediately. I guess add a bit of temperature change, some dye and before you know it you'll have some checking. Other relicers check by hand using blades, that my guess takes more time.

Its very simple to do, you have to supply heat (105-120c) for about a week, then use the process of heat and cold. You have to get the Nitro to dry down to the wood, which if you spray the clear in light coats and let dry before the next, it works better, then you put the body in the freezer on 12hr intervals, and then go back to heat, and it will start to crack. Sometimes depending on the nitro brand used, the cracks sometimes will heal themselves, but will come back over time in normal temps.

Its very simple to do, you have to supply heat (105-120c) for about a week, then use the process of heat and cold. You have to get the Nitro to dry down to the wood, which if you spray the clear in light coats and let dry before the next, it works better, then you put the body in the freezer on 12hr intervals, and then go back to heat, and it will start to crack. Sometimes depending on the nitro brand used, the cracks sometimes will heal themselves, but will come back over time in normal temps.

Are you sure you meant 248 degrees F? :shock:

Jeeesh. 2 weeks turnaround? Heck....I can't even get a significant portion of the color coat laid down in that time. 2 months would be pushing it for me for a completed paint job. Even then....as soon as someone opens the box, the fumes would kill all the mosquitoes for a mile.

Are you sure you meant 248 degrees F? :shock:

I'm sure "not"... :wink:

I like to mark my calendar for 2 months of curing, then hit it with a ride in a hot car-in-the-sun, then freezer followed by heat-gun, followed by canned air....
Repeat 5-6 times...

Then hit it with this treatment (http://www.xrestore.com/Pages/Aging.htm) to highlight the checking and age the exposed wood....

Works for me...

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee22/e_stamp/1962%20Custom%20Telecaster%20Copy/P1110295.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee22/e_stamp/AVRI%20Jazzmaster%20Neck/P1150379.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee22/e_stamp/2006%20Historic%20R7/P1070140.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee22/e_stamp/1951%20Nocaster%20Copy/P1090159.jpg

Are you sure you meant 248 degrees F? :shock:

Of course that's what I meant.....:lol:

I relic'd a USA RI 57' and there are visible checks but upon inspection they look only under the surface and not able to be felt with finger nail? The guitar is over 10 years old so curing shouldn't be the problem.

I'm assuming Fender does not use 80% or even 50% nitro on their Vintage re-issues? what are your thoughts?

Thanks!

Works best if you invert the can of "compressed air" (which is actually CO2) - Heat lightly with a blow dryer, then hold a can of "air" upside down and give the surface a blast. It'll sound like Rice Crispies!

I've done it the same day I applied the last clear coat.

Caveat - each brand/product crazes a bit differently. I've found the most large, grain-following "age-like" cracking with Sherwin Williams bulk lacquers and Rust-Oleum aerosol Acrylic lacquer; Valspar's bulk lacquer gives a finer checking; Mohawk's clears vary.

I've NEVER seen checking "heal". Ever.

Last note - especially on lighter-colored guitars, rubbing Kiwi liquid brown shoe polish over the surface and then cleaning with naphtha (lighter fluid) really highlights the cracks, making them look old and dirt-filled.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/692102/1237577/396394207.jpg

"Aging" done a couple hours after the last coat was applied.

Works best if you invert the can of "compressed air" (which is actually CO2) - Heat lightly with a blow dryer, then hold a can of "air" upside down and give the surface a blast. It'll sound like Rice Crispies!

I've done it the same day I applied the last clear coat.

Caveat - each brand/product crazes a bit differently. I've found the most large, grain-following "age-like" cracking with Sherwin Williams bulk lacquers and Rust-Oleum aerosol Acrylic lacquer; Valspar's bulk lacquer gives a finer checking; Mohawk's clears vary.

I've NEVER seen checking "heal". Ever.

Last note - especially on lighter-colored guitars, rubbing Kiwi liquid brown shoe polish over the surface and then cleaning with naphtha (lighter fluid) really highlights the cracks, making them look old and dirt-filled.

"Aging" done a couple hours after the last coat was applied.

That looks stunning. Great tip.

I have a MJT strat body that looks fantastic. I was just examining it the other day wondering how he did that! It is a '54 two-tone burst with light relic. I also bought the aged strat hardware from him and it looks great as well.

I've NEVER seen checking "heal". Ever.

.

I checked my 2011 MIA P using the upside down air can, and within seconds, the cracks healed. I could actually see it happening. The checking was beautiful, then it just wiped off!!

I drenched a body with liquid nitrogen, and within minutes the checks started to heal themselves. It was something to watch.

I don't doubt you guys about the stuff healing - but after 36 years in the coatings business (with the guitar finishing side as a sometimes hobby. sometimes work) I've never seen it happen nor can I determine any chemical or environmental (temperature, humidity etc) condition that could cause uninitiated "healing". Once it breaks...e.g. forms a crack...it takes some external stimulator...a solvent, temperature or other "thing" that can physically reliquify the film to cause it to heal.

So like I say, I believe you - but there had to be some condition or material at work other than the coating film and the liquid nitrogen. It's interesting. I'd love to figure out what it is that could *appear* to cause uninitiated healing. It could be used to solve problems where cracks have formed that are NOT desired.

If you think of any unusual circumstance or material used when those healing situations happened I'd love to hear about it - it'd be very useful outside of the guitar finishing world.

I'll do it again in the morning and video it. It's the craziest thing.

.

I've NEVER seen checking "heal". Ever.



I have. Fender Custom shop lacquer will check as its very thick. However soon as it heats up the checking is gone. You can also "peel" their lacquer off in dirty little gummy nibs rather than chip it.

Real Nitro checks well. Plastic nitro with a plastic undercoat will indeed appear to self heal and also appears to never fully harden.

I don't doubt you guys about the stuff healing - but after 36 years in the coatings business (with the guitar finishing side as a sometimes hobby. sometimes work) I've never seen it happen nor can I determine any chemical or environmental (temperature, humidity etc) condition that could cause uninitiated "healing". Once it breaks...e.g. forms a crack...it takes some external stimulator...a solvent, temperature or other "thing" that can physically reliquify the film to cause it to heal.

So like I say, I believe you - but there had to be some condition or material at work other than the coating film and the liquid nitrogen. It's interesting. I'd love to figure out what it is that could *appear* to cause uninitiated healing. It could be used to solve problems where cracks have formed that are NOT desired.

If you think of any unusual circumstance or material used when those healing situations happened I'd love to hear about it - it'd be very useful outside of the guitar finishing world.

I put my peach pinecaster body in the freezer at school ( -80 c) and it checked beautifully with those nice horizontal lines. They looked perfect. Best checking I have ever seen. I could wipe the scratches with my warm hand and watch them dissappear. The next day, they were gone.

It was finished over 1 year prior to freezing with Sherwin Williams LOVOC nitrocellulose lacquer. Pretty thin finish as well.

Totally bummed me out.

My bass body checked then healed. Now that the weather is heating up, the cracks are reappearing. They arent huge, but they're coming from most screws and on the contours. I think this thing will age nicely.

When I put it in the freezer, it had a few months curing time. And I used acrylic lacquer, but it's basically the same as nitro.

The solvent in lacquer its the problem. The reason it can be recoated is lacquer melts into itself. Lacquer gets harder as the solvent evaporates. It can take several years for the solvent too evap enough to not melt the check marks back together. The fastest and most accurate lacquer to the old stuff I've found is Sherwin Williams promar interior lacquer. It agrees berry quick

I wonder of retarder its the main cause for some lacquers taking so long to check?

Yes, retarder will definitely affect the time it takes for checking, forced or otherwise. It slows things down initially, and continues to slow the curing/hardening for a long time after the finish seems "dry". Avoid retarder if your desire is a checked lacquer finish.

Another factor to consider is most modern lacquers contain various amounts of plasticizers to keep the finish from checking. Not all lacquers are created equal.