12ay7 Tube Suggestions

Alright so I have this Weber Bassman that my friend built for me. It
s got 4 10 inch speakers and is 50 watts I believe. I have been playing in a band recently and have come across a problem. My amp is breaking up way too early, like around 4.

If it were around 7 I wouldn't have an issue but 4 is just way too soon. So I swapped out the 12ax7 in the v1 position and it definitely cleaned up but is now way too quiet and needs to be turned up all the way to 11 just in order for me to hear myself over the rest of the band.

The 12ay7 I currently have in my amp is an Electro-Harmonix and I have to say that tube makes my amp sound soooooooooo weak. So I don't know if I should look for another kind of 12ay7 tube or try maybe two 5751 tubes in the V1 and V2 position or what. I just want my amp to maintain a clean sound and still be loud enough to contend with the rest of the band.

Please give me some suggestions! Thanks a lot!!!

Try the 5751 and see how you like the volume increase compared to the 12ay7. It should be a little louder for you, but not quite the gain of a 12ax7.
Maybe in just v1 for now and then if it works for you, swap it to v2 and try that.
Experiment and maybe find some un expected cool sounds.

It does not sound like a tube issue.
4x10's should be pushing a lot of air.

I use a Bassman LTD and my band plays some pretty loud rock & roll. I don't have any volume issues with volume and I commonly switch v1 tubes between ax7, 5751, and ay7. In fact, I actually had my amp modded to have a little less power than stock and to break up a little earlier. I do know what you mean with the volume changes with different preamp tubes and the ax7 definitely gives some early preamp grit. However....

Your issues is one of two things...

Either your band is verrrry loud

OR

Something is awry with the build.

Twin Reverb....Loud and clean problem solved.

Similar issue with my Victoria Bassman with EH 12AY7 in V1. It's my understanding that the Fender Bassman RI does put out more volume than the more vintage designs, like the Victoria. I found this to be true when shopping for mine. I tried 4 Victorias and a few Fenders--the Fenders were louder, but I much preferred the tone and build of the Victoria. I'm going to check out the 5751 in V1 though, just to goose the volume a bit.

Does the amp have a linear pot as a volume control? 4 on a linear pot would be cranked on an audio pot. Many companies use linear pots as volume controls to give the perception of a more powerful amp.

Similar issue with my Victoria Bassman with EH 12AY7 in V1. It's my understanding that the Fender Bassman RI does put out more volume than the more vintage designs, like the Victoria. I found this to be true when shopping for mine. I tried 4 Victorias and a few Fenders--the Fenders were louder, but I much preferred the tone and build of the Victoria. I'm going to check out the 5751 in V1 though, just to goose the volume a bit.

I've never played the Victoria, but the Fenders come stock with 12ax7 in v1, so they'll seem louder than than an amp with a 12ay7 in v1. I dig that sound, but also like the ay7 tone. Usually, I just compromise and go with the 5751.

Perhaps try a 12AT7

As per The Tube Store.com Article on Gain factor (http://thetubestore.com/gainfactor.html), the 12AY7 has approximately 45% of the gain output of the 12AX7, the 12AT7 has approximately 60% and the 5751 has approximately 70%. Different brands can affect tone and gain also (let alone different tube of the same brand). I would try an assortment of brands of 12AT7s and 5751s to find the gain and tone you like.

A healthy Bassman is loud. I'd be looking at the power tubes and speakers. What's in it now?

Yeah, my Vicky Bassman with a NOS 12ay7 is a very healthy amp, with the channels jumped I can get it mind numbingly loud at 6-7.

yeah something sounds fishy a healthy bassman moves more air than a twin and is not overwhelmingly quieter

I don't great breakup until around 5 on the dial of my 410 bassman and a smidge higher on the 63. similar actual volume levels

a 12ay7 and a couple 12ax7 is the classic preamp setup.

Also, the Bassman was originally designed around a 12ay7 in V1: it's the first switch everyone suggests you make with a newer reissue. Sounds like somethign else is going on with your amp. Or maybe the 12ay7 you got is bad.

I have SED Winged C's as my power tubes and Tung Sol 12ax7s as the other two preamp tubes in the V2 and V3 slots. I also don't know if the volume control has a linear or audio pot. I never heard of the difference between the two before. The speakers are whatever Weber Amps uses as their stock speakers when you order their 5F6A model.

If I did decide to get new speakers would you recommend Alnico or Ceramic?

I really dig the eminence p10r clone blue frames from the 90s reissue fender bassman

they are generally cheap in the used market.

The V2 is a a re-amplifier. and putting a lower gain 12AY7 has the effect of reducing the volume of the amp. Put a 12AY7 in V1 and a 12AX7 back in V2 and you should have the desired result.

Leave the 12AX7 in the first position and plug your guitar in the Low input.