Why use non-flush Lipped Ferrules???

I don't understand the purpose of using non-flushed ferrules on the back of teles. What purpose does the raised lip of the ferrules provide except snagging onto your shirt or pants?

I asked the guys at Warmoth this question awhile ago since they use raised ferrules and the guy told me to protect the wood while stringing the guitar when the ball end of the string may "whip-around" and nick the wood when pulling the string through the ferrule holes. After he said that, I thought, "WTF?" Then he said, "Ah, you won't even know or feel that they're raised at all." Then why are they raised? Protection? I don't get it.

I always liked the flush feel as it gives you a nice flat surface under there. The raised ferrules seem pointless to me.

Anyone know why they are raised? I was going to buy a Warmoth unfinished tele body til I found out the holes were made for raised ferrules. Nice graining and all but man-- raised ferrules? I don't know. Still deciding whether or not to get that body. Don't know the purpose of the raised ferrules on the back of teles.

Anyone got a clue?

I think the raised ferrules look like an unfinished job.

I sort of prefer the raised ferrules.

Ferrules with no lip means you get the depth of each of the holes exact or it looks cheap. I think chipping the finish around the edge of the hole is also more likely with a flush ferrule. They are just harder to get right I think, even with a machine.

Don't know the purpose of the raised ferrules on the back of teles.

Anyone got a clue?

They are easier to install when raised. Just drill out for the small end of the ferrule and pound them in with a mallet until the raised end hits the finish. Done.

The flush mounted ones have to be countersunk...which takes a bit more time and precision with the drill.

So...it's the quick and cheap way. It's not "wrong" just different.

JMHO.

The reason they gave was baloney. They just want to do it the easiest way.

Right way number for flanged ferrules: Counterbore for the ferrule. Counterbore for the flange, precise depth. Ferrule sits flush with the surface.

Right way for ferrules with no flange: Counterbore to precisely the correct depth. Ferrule sits flush with the surface.

Warmoth way: Counterbore deep enough to bury the body of the ferrule. Too deep, no big deal. The flange sits on top of the body, that deep counterbore will never be seen.

We all know Warmoth can do nice accurate work. I guess they just choose to cut corners here, save a little labor. Disappointing.

But look: You are buying an unfinished body. Just finish the their job yourself and do the counterbores. Or get something from USACG, they don't need BS excuses.

I sort of prefer the raised ferrules.

Ferrules with no lip means you get the depth of each of the holes exact or it looks cheap. I think chipping the finish around the edge of the hole is also more likely with a flush ferrule. They are just harder to get right I think, even with a machine.

I think you nailed it. The raised lip may provide some protection(a round wall) inside and protruding on top of the ferrule hole to protect the finished edges chipping plus its probably easier to hide uneven ferrule hole depth more so than flushed holes. Flushed ferrules reveals every little missed depth of a drilled out ferrule hole. Raised ferrules seem like an "easy-way out" to make the ferrule holes come out looking right. Like a "Cover" over a flawed drilled out hole.

The reason they gave was baloney. They just want to do it the easiest way.

Right way number for flanged ferrules: Counterbore for the ferrule. Counterbore for the flange, precise depth. Ferrule sits flush with the surface.

Right way for ferrules with no flange: Counterbore to precisely the correct depth. Ferrule sits flush with the surface.

Warmoth way: Counterbore deep enough to bury the body of the ferrule. Too deep, no big deal. The flange sits on top of the body, that deep counterbore will never be seen.

We all know Warmoth can do nice accurate work. I guess they just choose to cut corners here, save a little labor. Disappointing.

But look: You are buying an unfinished body. Just finish the their job yourself and do the counterbores. Or get something from USACG, they don't need BS excuses.

Only problem with doing it myself is that the Warmoth ferrule holes are wider than the counter-bore I need to make it into a flushed fit--- so I can't do a flush-mount with their holes-- they are too big. The flushed ferrules will be too small for that hole that Warmoth drilled. They will fall into the hole they drilled out. I would need to wood-fill in the holes they drilled out. I already thought of trying that when I had him on the phone. But it wouldnt work. Cant countersink the holes any wider--- they will drill out into the adjacent ferrule holes. Ugh. Once the Warmoth ferrule holes are drilled out-- you're screwed.

I agree with you--- its an easy easy way for them to drill out ferrule holes--- less bother and it saves them that extra counter-boring process.
Yeah-- I didnt buy into their "protect the finish" story either" I do like their bodies though---- just don't like their raised ferrule idea--- thats what you get when you buy the "showcase already drilled out bodies" less troublesome for them and they save time and steps and money. It's a business I know.

On a guitar with a really nice finish, flanged ferrules allow you to sit the guitar on its back without scratching the nice finish because the body rests on the raised ferrules and neck plate.

OOOOOOoooo-- good point Colt. Never thought of that one.

+1 for the raised ferrules on that point.

That's why I love getting other user's opinions. I never woulda thought of that one. Yeah I guess it would sit pretty flat that way.

You know what?-- I'm gonna throw my guitar stand away now!

On a guitar with a really nice finish, flanged ferrules allow you to sit the guitar on its back without scratching the nice finish because the body rests on the raised ferrules and neck plate.

It also makes it easier to change strings in the dark. :wink:

It also makes it easier to change strings in the dark. :wink:

I've heard something similiar if you put h........... Oh wait, I probably shouldn't say that on tdpri. :mrgreen:

Timely thread. I've just gotten a finished body from Warmoth and my flanged StweMac ferrules, and come to the realization there is no practical way for me to mount them flush. Hard to accurately drill the countersink holes, and I'm bound to chip the finished body if I try. I had decided, "Oh, well," and now here I get a couple of facially plausible rationalizations of why it's a good thing. It's a feature. There!

Leon--

Yeah I know--- The Warmoth ferrule holes I think are impossible to re-drill into flushed-mounts as the diameter is too big in each hole and you may risk nicking up against the adjacent holes on each side of the one you're drilling out.

Maybe somewhere someone makes extra wide ferrules to convert the Warmoth ferrule holes to a flush-mount. Hmmm... They would have to be some deep ferrules. I know those Warmoth ferrule holes are deep down in the body. You'd have to have like at least 3/4"(or close) long or deep ferrules made and the ferrule diameter that is like 1/32" more than the Warmoth hole for a tight fit and you'd have it.

Or just just leave it as-is. Like the Warmoth salesman told me over the phone in his more-or less words--- "Ah ferget about it---you won't even know they're raised"

Hey, the ones on my new Classic Vibe Custom Tele came slightly recessed. I like the way they look! They are all recessed exactly the same amount, the hole is cut "persactly" on each one.

I decided to go non lipped ferrules for this body..

I was careful to use a new sharpened drill with the cutting face the same angle as the bevel on the brass ferrules on the pre drilled string through holes...so they would seat true on the wood...

I used the stop on the drill press/clamps and a micrometer to get the holes the same depth a few mm's at a time.. just level... cleaned the holes out.. smeared a bit of titebond in the holes with a cotton bud.. then used a punch to tap the brass down to a bit under the surface so they were hard down on the base and most of the glue squeezed up the string hole...

then put in a small surface bevel by hand rolling a stone ball tip in the hole... then dabbed a bit more TB on there to fill the top gap to seal them..
worked out OK on a natural body.. this one needs another final clear coat..

I can understand them using a lip type on already finished paintwork in case the paint edges get chipped a frazz when drilling...

I have both, and can't really say I prefer one over the other.

I don't understand the purpose of using non-flushed ferrules on the back of teles. What purpose does the raised lip of the ferrules provide except snagging onto your shirt or pants?

I've never snagged clothing on non-flush ferrules.

I take it you don't play a Strat? That trem cover will really annoy you. :wink:

Someone here gave a minitutorial on this, I think Jack Wells. He drills the holes the proper size for the ferrule and then rounded the inside edges with a round stone dremel like bit, but by hand, not with the electric tool part.

The ferrule can be made to sit flush or nearly flush without any chipping. Mine are usually nearly flush. I worry more about the finish than I do whether the ferrule sticks out a bit.

I can't imagine it being a big deal not having them recessed. Just different.

I can't imagine it being a big deal not having them recessed. Just different.

I think you'll find the majority of guitars have them on top and not recessed.

Mine aren't flush and I've never given them a second thought.

On a guitar with a really nice finish, flanged ferrules allow you to sit the guitar on its back without scratching the nice finish because the body rests on the raised ferrules and neck plate.

+1

But mostly, it is the fast and dirty way to say the ferrules are done.

It can also be nice to quickly knock out the ferrules when you need to re-polish the back of the guitar. (a couple marks you didn't see the first time)



But the cheapness of the way Warmoth does ferrules is insignificant next to the obvious fact that the body is the wrong shape. Get that wrong, who cares about the rest?

+1

But mostly, it is the fast and dirty way to say the ferrules are done.

It can also be nice to quickly knock out the ferrules when you need to re-polish the back of the guitar. (a couple marks you didn't see the first time)



But the cheapness of the way Warmoth does ferrules is insignificant next to the obvious fact that the body is the wrong shape. Get that wrong, who cares about the rest?

I never noticed the Warmoth bodies being the wrong shape. I thought they looked really close to a 52 AVRI outside of the raised-lipped ferrules on a Warmoth vs the flush ferrules on a 52AVRI

that is very good.

On a guitar with a really nice finish, flanged ferrules allow you to sit the guitar on its back without scratching the nice finish because the body rests on the raised ferrules and neck plate.

So I didn't need the Bench Cookies after all?

So I didn't need the Bench Cookies after all?

Oh no, Bench cookies will keep it from sliding around. The raised ferrules are good when your at a gig, and need to lay your tele on a table, top of the case, stage floor while you setup your stands and what not. :mrgreen:

They are easier to install when raised. Just drill out for the small end of the ferrule and pound them in with a mallet until the raised end hits the finish. Done.

The flush mounted ones have to be countersunk...which takes a bit more time and precision with the drill.

So...it's the quick and cheap way. It's not "wrong" just different.

JMHO.

+1 It's a production thing, not a mess with you thing.

Mine aren't flush. I use 'em to scratch my belly button while I'm playing Comfortably Numb.

Mine aren't flush. I use 'em to scratch my belly button while I'm playing Comfortably Numb.


Or getting it tickled soloing to VH's "Eruption" :lol:

Just my personal opinion:
I prefer them recessed.
But I bought a set of non lipped ferrules for a pine body I built a few months ago. And the damn things keep sinking deeper & deeper into the body.
That guitar wouldn't stay in tune worth crap until they sunk in as far as they could go, probably until they hit the cherrywood cap or at least got close enough to it that they couldn't displace any more of the pine to go any farther.
On my other builds I used a tapered stone to countersink the holes for the lip & then clean the holes up a little by scraping away the tapered edges with a small chisel.
On my first build I made the mistake of trying to use a drill to countersink them & tore out a couple nice sized chips.

Mounting ferrules flush or having the flanges on top of the body is really just your choice.
Having owned Fender Telecasters from different eras I have seen the ferrules done both ways. When I build for a customer I set the ferrules how they prefer. For me I leave them above the body as a rule because it is quicker and the only person who sees them is usually me.

Looks nice flush but not that much nicer. As others stated, there are benefits to leaving them non flush. I put them, along with a bridge that covered both string through the body and top load both on an SX bass I had that came stock with top load only. I did not take the time to make them flush and they looked good enough for me. Personally I don't see any benefit other than looking nice to flush mount but do what pleases you.

Makes absolutely no difference to me, one way or the other.

Leon--

Yeah I know--- The Warmoth ferrule holes I think are impossible to re-drill into flushed-mounts as the diameter is too big in each hole and you may risk nicking up against the adjacent holes on each side of the one you're drilling out.


I know this is an older thread but I'll throw in my two cents in as I'm going through this again this year with ferrules.

I've used both lipped (5/16") and non-lipped ferrules (3/8").

1) If you're going to install the ferrules flush, might as well get the non-lipped ferrules and get the ferrule hole @ the proper depth with a the depth stop on your drill press.

2) If installing the lipped ferrules flush, its pretty much impossible with standard Fender string spacing to not eat up the wood between each ferrule. It just won't look as nice as the flush 3/8" diam non-lipped ferrule.

3) With the lipped ferrule, you have the advantage of having the ferrule sit on top of the finish. This means that chipping is less likely.

USACG bodies are drilled for flanged ferrules, just tap them in. Done.