Need Plexi Tone

My coverband started playing ZZ Top songs and I need the plexi sound for Sharp Dressed Man.
My pedalboard today has this od-pedals.
Ac-boster Rc-boster Dirty Little Secret Lovepedal Od11.
None give me the right tone.
I have found two pedals on the marked that gives good plexi tone.
ToneBone plexitube and Carl Martin Plexi Tone.
Do you have any other suggestions?

Do you say about studio tone? It feels pretty post-processed. Many layers etc/

Pedals don't, and never will, cut it. Doesn't matter what brand or cost. Those little wimpy transistor circuits are not going to do it. Get the big basic tube rig and CRANK IT if you want the true hippie-rock guitar sounds.

Almost like trying to sound like a Ramirez with an "acoustic simulator".

The Wampler Plexi-Drive is the best I've ever heard at copping the Plexi Sound. The Wampler Plextortion will also do it, with more gain, which imo would probably be better for Sharp Dressed Man.

But that entire album was a Rockman you know. No joke. Billy talked about it in a recent guitar mag interview. Unless he's jiving, which he has been known to do. BUT... it sounds like a Rockman to me... a well-recorded, well-EQ'd one (he even said he had TOm Scholz mod them a bit), and all the songs' tones sound exactly the same.

Ha! Just kidding in my above post. Famous distortio guitar sounds many many times were recorded with gimmick devices, NOT the "big rig".

Pedals don't, and never will, cut it. Doesn't matter what brand or cost. Those little wimpy transistor circuits are not going to do it. Get the big basic tube rig and CRANK IT if you want the true hippie-rock guitar sounds.

Almost like trying to sound like a Ramirez with an "acoustic simulator".

Actually Billy uses marshall preamp (which has tube, but I believe it's hybrid) into SS marshall power amp.

I love the Visual Sound Open Road for Plexi tones. Its a very under-valued pedal that sounds stunning.

Definitely the Tonebone. You may not need the Plexitube though, unless you want both channels- the Hot British should be enough.

This is one of those few pedals that I can almost guarantee people will be impressed by... Listen to some of their sound samples, it's exactly what you're looking for!

2 OD's in series do it great. Create the fat saturation.

Sometimes 1 by itself is too thin, ...
no matter how pricey and botiquey.

1st OD at noon
2nd OD at 3-4oclock

2 OD's in series do it great. Create the fat saturation.

We have a different view on what a Plexi sounds like... I don't think of fat saturation. To me, it is more of a dry, power tube crunch (ala Acca Dacca). The tone is open and raw.

Marshall amps were more saturated in the 80s. especially when the 800 series amps were modded (and even more when the 900 series was released). At this point, they didn't sound like old school Plexis anymore.

Or get a Legend 50 amp and one Celestion in a silent recording box- that's what BG used for Eliminator

According to the guy to recorded the record, anyway

I actually think that the zvex box of rock does the plexi thing BETTER than anything else. Almost to a fault. The bass gets a bit woofy - just like my plexi - but it sounds exactly like my plexi through english greenbacks at 8.

I also have the ocd which is supposed to be a marshall in a box on the hp setting as well, but it doesn't do vintage 60's like the BOR. Just my opinion....

Sent from my DROIDX using TDPRI

Billy will sound like Billy regardless. He's used a LOT of amps on tour. He even did a tour with some of the cheap Crate Combos and I'm sure it still sounded excellent.

I really don't think you can beat the Wampler Plexi-Drive as someone else above posted. This pedal is unbelievable. It has almost no compression and sounds like natural amp overdrive. It is an incredible pedal!

If you can swing it, try stacking 2 lower gain pedals in series...Mr Gibbon's tone is not really as nasty as it seems, and when I've tried to cop some of his licks, I seem to get the best results by punching up the upper mids/his on one and the lower mids on another mid gain device ... although not very esoteric, a TS9 and a Blues Driver or 808 in series gets REAL close...

Just an opinion - picking with the edge of the pick helps more than any pedal though.

Billy will sound like Billy regardless. He's used a LOT of amps on tour. He even did a tour with some of the cheap Crate Combos and I'm sure it still sounded excellent.

Billy is a tone freak. If I had to guess, the only thing that Crate had to do with those amps were the badges. He is known to mod just about everything. Remember when he used to have a whole bunch of Expandora pedals on stage linked in series? There is no way that he was actually getting his tone from those - It would be a noisy, spongy mess. Billy loves to mess around with other guitar players and he uses a lot of subterfuge.

That said, you are right - Billy always sound like Billy.

How are the Marshall The Guv´nor2 sounds very much jsm800 i just heard youtube demos

Tried using the Xotic BB Preamp?

We have a different view on what a Plexi sounds like... I don't think of fat saturation. To me, it is more of a dry, power tube crunch (ala Acca Dacca). The tone is open and raw.

Marshall amps were more saturated in the 80s. especially when the 800 series amps were modded (and even more when the 900 series was released). At this point, they didn't sound like old school Plexis anymore.

I would not necessarily say more open. I had a 66-67 superlead, while
not true plexi, had great saturation, that I can get nowadays
on many tube amps. Of course I would pull the 3rd/4th tube, or something
like that to knock it down .

but, it has been quite awhile.!! I could be crzy
lol

rockett animal overdive is the best plexi in a box!!
EkR_HhezyLA

you may want to try playing with either a dime or nickel, can't remember which one he used, i've found it can get you that last little bit of the way to getting some of the licks and riffs to sound right

+1 on 2 od pedals together, and i'll throw in for the ROG Thor if you're interested in DIY

Now I'M jonesin' for a new pedal!

Billy is a tone freak. If I had to guess, the only thing that Crate had to do with those amps were the badges. He is known to mod just about everything. Remember when he used to have a whole bunch of Expandora pedals on stage linked in series? There is no way that he was actually getting his tone from those - It would be a noisy, spongy mess. Billy loves to mess around with other guitar players and he uses a lot of subterfuge.

That said, you are right - Billy always sound like Billy.

I'd say his amps aren't as modified as everyone says. However he does have a back stage EQ so that every guitar is setup to sound like his original Pearly Gates LP. I'd say the EQ is where his tone comes from, that as his insanely light touch, not so much his pedals or amps. I saw him a few months ago and he played almost the entire show with an Esquire and his tone was as thick and raunchy as it is on CD's which were mostly done with a humbucker LP.

you may want to try playing with either a dime or nickel, can't remember which one he used...

I heard it was a peso.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6DrxfrbbF8 The real deal:)

I just did a search on plexi-ish pedals just a night ago so I'll drop a list of what I came up with, though there may be a few repeated recommendations. It also took me 3 times to post this since I was rudely interupted twice before I could finish it so.... I hope it helps you somewhat.

#1) Wampler/Plexidrive (so far one of the best to my ears)
#2) Wampler/Plexitortion (more in the JCM800 camp)
#3) Rothwell/Hellbender (Think early Zep tones)
#4) Rockett pedals/Animal OD (also a very sweet take on the plexi)
#5) Rockett pedals/Flex drive (claims it does great plexi + more versatility)
#6) Jetter gain stage purple OD ( aimed at plexi sound)
#7) Lovepedal purple plexi 100 (it's in the name)
#8) Lovepedal purple plexi 800 (plexi and JCM800?)
#9) Hao Rust driver (plexilike one knobber,though not much versatility)
#10) Menatone/King of the Britians (based on 67-68 Plexi circuit)
#11) Menatone Workingman's blue (based on Ze Ole' JTM45)
#12 Carl Martin Plexitone (nuff said)

p.s. Zvex Box of rock has some claims of Marshally tones maybe not plexi-ish but Marshall, same has been said for the Fulltone OCD, also Joyo had their own plexidrive version but have since been for to change it to "hot Plexi".

Wampler Plexi Drive would be my recommendation. I haven't seen any other line of pedal recreate classic amps better than them. FYI, I heard in an interview that the Plexi Drive is actually Brian Wampler's favorite pedal.

We have a different view on what a Plexi sounds like...

THIS is the problem, IMO.

What does a plexi sound like? I'd argue that there is no definitive "plexi sound."

If anything, "plexi tone" probably is synonymous with "hotrodded Marshall rock tone," whatever that means. Crunchy upper mids? Crunchy? Mids? Any combo?

I'd argue that a plexi isn't even that distorted of an amp, certainly not compared to 98% of the pedals that either directly have the word plexi in their description, or at least drop the p-word in how they are marketed.

And how a pedal could cover "from plexi up to Super Lead" or some non-descript language such as that is befuddling to me, too.

When I think of actual Marshall plexi amplifiers, I think of the non-MV variety that Yngwie Malmsteen was buying for peanuts years ago, because they were being tossed for JCM800's or more modern stuff (this was years ago).

"Plexi pedal" is about as definitive of a tonal character as is "class A." IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6DrxfrbbF8 The real deal:)

"...It's not perfect science, but it's guitar player science..."

Now THAT is a quote to remember!

So easy, even a guitar player can do it... :lol:

When I think of actual Marshall plexi amplifiers, I think of the non-MV variety that Yngwie Malmsteen was buying for peanuts years ago, because they were being tossed for JCM800's or more modern stuff (this was years ago).



Some of you (us) old guys might remember when they GAVE away original TS808s and sold original TS9s for $9.95 several years because everyone wanted that new, jagged sound offered by Rats and similar...

Hello Gentlemen,

Sorry to butt into your fine forum, but I must set this record straight, at least as far as "Sharp Dressed Man" and the rest of Eliminator is concerned.

Working for many, many years with Billy, and recording all of their big albums, every note, I can tell you exactly what we used. In fact, I am the only human being who was present for every single bit of work done on Eliminator.

It is true that we, on previous albums, had used Marshall type amps...at times Billy's own Rio Grande branded versions (but not picked with a coin, ha ha).

But somewhat before the Eliminator album, we started experimenting with different things, always going for something a bit "special" compared to where we had been before. As someone here pointed out, BG is certainly a "Tone Freak."

I will leave out everything else for now however, other than the Eliminator album.

As Wireline correctly points out above, the amplifier used on over 97% of the guitar tones for that album was a 50 Watt Legend, the one with the wood case and cane grille "cloth." (This amp was a hybrid tube/transistor, so that may contribute a bit to the "pedal-ey" conotation.) I set up in one spot with the amp out in the studio, and Billy played in the control room, using a long cable.

The amp was mic'd with only one microphone, an AG 414 B-ULS, from about 5-7" away. Once placed, it was never moved until the entire album was finished.

There was ABSOLUTELY NO ROCKMAN used on this album. Yes, Tom was corresponding with us at the time, and yes, he did send us a couple of "Rockmen" that we did patch in and test. But I did not like it for recording, and convinced BG that we needed to use a real amplifier. In fact, on all of the ZZ albums I recorded and mixed, we NEVER recorded any Rockman that we actually kept in the records. Billy may have used one at some time later (I did not work on the newer albums, the ones that did not sell).

The guitars used were ALL Deans..one was a Belaire, the original prototype, and the only one in existence (I still have that one in my possession), and the other (forgot the model name) was shaped like a Flying V, but with an extra V arm towards the front as well, much like an Explorer. The "Explorer" shaped one was used the most.

The first song that we started overdubbing for guitars (once the "drums and bass" were down) was "Sharp Dressed." I remember vividly, after getting the basic tone, the sound and feeling that came over all of us when we heard those first "chord notes" in the track...it was just perfect for what we wanted. Billy and I determined right then and there to just leave it as it was...why bother changing from that? So indeed, most of the album...guitar-wise...is that same sound. Lead, rhythm, all.

So, no pedals will exactly get this sound. Sorry.

And others' point that "It's Billy" is the real truth. As surely we all know, the REAL tone is in the hands fingers and mind of the player. I have recorded many great guitarists...Page, Albert King, Cropper, Teenie, Joe Walsh, Lonnie Mack, Stevie Ray & Jimmy Vaughan, Alvin Lee, Reggie Young, and lots & lots more...and to a Man, they sound LIKE THEMSELVES, almost no matter what amp or guitar they use.

The only other time I have heard the almost-exact Eliminator sound was a few years ago when (famous session player) Michael Thompson was in my studio working on a Celine Dion album, and we started taking about BG and the Eliminator sound...MT is a big Gibbophile. When I told him what the sound was, and that I had one of the two guitars, and also the Legend amp (we had two, BG has the other, main, one still), he made me drag it all out and set it up, as close to the original setup as possible. I used that same amp, same guitar, even the same microphone (still have it as well)...although we were of course in a different studio...and THERE WAS THE SOUND. Michael is such an amazing player that he is *almost* able to cop the Billy Thang, as close as anyone probably could.

Someone else mentioned Zvex. Indeed Zach is a good friend of Billy's (and mine), and he has indeed worked hard to get some of those BG sounds...in fact, I think Billy has conferred with ZV a bit on a pedal or two. I have a Box of Rock that Zach made custom for me (and a Factory as well), and he has done a very good job with those.

So...not a pedal on Eliminator. Of course we did use a plethora of pedals or other fx on certain other albums (think "Manic Mechanic, etc.)...but not this one. And NOT a Rockman!

And yes, there is a slight chance that Billy might "jive" a few people now and then...remember the "amps in a circle" story...hahahahah.

Enough, carry on, regards.

Terry Manning

Hey Terry...

I saw your post on another forum where you said "absolutely no rockman"... "at least while I was there, don't know what happened after I left" (I paraphrase)... were you there through the entire recording, or not?

Here's the forum:
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=33190&sid=d5b8fa9ca5df41848c383e71e1fe0a21

Here's your quote:
"THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO ROCKMAN USED ON THIS RECORDING!
Not a little bit, not a tiny bit; NOT ANY. I don't know how these stories get started. Billy may indeed have used Rockman at a later date, after I left the situation, but I did not allow it when I was working with him. "

btw- it's Billy himself who's talking about the Rockman used on these recordings; I don't know which magazine it was, but it was within the last year, there was an extensive interview with him where he discussed using modded rockmans on Eliminator.

Yes, aware of that.

Sorry to contradict, but also...yes, I was there for every single second of all recording and mixing for the Eliminator album.

I know it makes for cool and fun Internet talk to say the Rockman thing, but it simply wasn't used.

Period.

Lovepedal Superlead or Mad Prof. mighty red

The guitars used were ALL Deans..one was a Belaire, the original prototype, and the only one in existence (I still have that one in my possession), and the other (forgot the model name) was shaped like a Flying V, but with an extra V arm towards the front as well, much like an Explorer. The "Explorer" shaped one was used the most.

This IMO explains why none of those songs (IMO) have a LP->Marshall (I refuse to say plexi) kinda tone that something like Tush does. For that matter, I always loved just the intro to that song, because the guitar tone changes right after the beginning riffs!

Those old Deans are neat, but different.

...Which reminds me of EVH using a Ibanez Destroyer for Runnin' with the Devil on that first album - I have never heard any of his Superstrats sound like that thing. I much prefer it - fatter, but keeping the definition.

BBenderman,


MI Audio Crunchbox can do Marshall sounds from Plexi , up to JCM800 +

I love BG, but he is the Spin-meister General, and many the Reverends much revered and 'legendary tones', were - it seems - obtained by methods that would raise uncomfortable silences by consensus forumites, and the version of events possibly overlooked in favour of a more comfortable, and organic / analog version.

Possibly one of the 'Billy' -or 'Reverend' or 'Pearly' (I'm guessing) - settings on a recent Multi-FX unit would more easily give you 'authentic Eliminator' type sounds.

No disrespect meant to Billy. In fact .. more respect.

I did not work on the newer albums, the ones that did not sell...

I really liked the guitar tones on Rhythmeen, the truth be told. Maybe it didn't sell, but those are some of the most badass BG guitar tones I've ever heard.

Not only that, but they are all stereo, with a mix of Marshall JMP pre into the board and an amp with a mic'ed cab mixed in.

...There is no mistaking that the guitar tones on Rhythmeen are "real," IMO. Anyone who says a Rockman was used on that album was on crack!

And then there is the Bixonic Expandora. Too cool. Can't do that with any amp, TTBOMK.

And a bit more about the actual rhythm guitar recording technique...

The rhythm guitars were done in a precursor-to-Protools style. Short phrases were played, and then double tracked, onto one set of tracks, and then the chord change/next phrase was played on a second set of tracks. This allowed a seamless transition between changes; since the Deans were so close to feedback at all times (acoustically, through the fairly loud JBL monitors), we couldn't even lift the fingers to change chords! Then I would trim the edges of each section by punching in and out to silence at the beginnings and ends of the phrases (somewhat analogous to "trimming the region" today). This method also "eliminated" to a degree the loud harmonic squeaks between chord changes. The punch in/out points, if done exactly perfectly, made for a primitive cross fade of probably 10-20 ms, and ended up sounding very different as rhythm guitar, sort of like a big train rolling down a track, almost out of control; without knowing how it was done, one wouldn't really realise why it was different.

T

IDK guys... not sure I'm buying it. While I dug the tones on Eliminator for being very "of the times", we can all attest they are nothing like any previous BG tones before. And even if a Rockman wasn't used (which I'm still not convinced of), it sure sounds alot like a Rockman to me. Well, it sounds more like a Rockman than a real amp, I'll put it that way.

I also find it interesting that someone posts a question about getting a ZZ Top Eliminator tone, then a Rockman is mentioned, and compasspnt comes out of nowhere, with his first post, with an eye-witness report of the recording? IDK, just seems weird. Not casting aspersions, just seems weirdly coincidental to me.

Doesn't matter- Eliminator doesn't sound like a Plexi for sure. If you want that tone, don't get a Plexi pedal. I still say a Rockman will get you closer than an amp.

Seriously Ruger...check out Terry's creds - he is the real deal, and what he says is and has been gospel in this stuff since the late 60s. Since he was there, and the man actually pushing pushing the record button, he would know what was and wasn't used...its not eyewitness, its the actual user's account.

He came here because I referred this thread to him, to set the record straight about the myths regarding BG's use of pedals and whatnot when recording the song in the OP, and the subsequent plexi/Rockman/everything else myths that always come up when discussing ZZ Top. Sometimes the lore, the myths, and the downright bull**** are just too much for me to take.

Google Terry Manning for a partial lowdown on him.

Another link on the subject, with Billy's testimony:

http://www.woodytone.com/2010/09/28/gibbons-eliminatorafterburner-the-rockman/

I wish I could find the RECENT interview with Billy (from one of the guitar mags), but I just can't locate it online, where he re-iterated the Rockman's use on Eliminator.


Also- here's the engineer (compasspnt, I'm guessing) saying he played the drums on "Legs" and "almost the entire album"??? Just sounds ... unbelievable... to me.
http://www.woodytone.com/2010/09/30/engineer-billy-gibbons-eliminator-gear/

Wireline:

We posted same time, so missed yours. Not trying to cast aspersions on Terry at all... but he says he played all the drums on Eliminator? Really?

And we all know BG has played games with everyone's heads as far as gear goes... the famous "6 Expandoras all linked together" for example... but the Rockman thing? I tend to believe it. Especially since Terry has 2 stories, one where he wasn't there for the entire recording, and one where he was. I'm just thinking something went down at some point Terry didn't know about perhaps?

And I still want to hear if he really played all the drums on Eliminator, because if that's true I just lost a whole hell of alot of respect for one of my favorite bands...

And I still say if those tones came from real amps, it's the best job I've ever heard of someone making a real amp sound like a Rockman. ;)

Believe it brother...believe it.

Well Mr. Ruger, if you were not a Jersey guy...

Well, but you are.

Sorry if you don't believe it, but I placed the microphones, did all engineering, including tracking, overdubbing and mixing, and even carried the stereo master tapes by hand to Bob Ludwig in New York where we mastered the album. "Legs" was even recorded in my attic 24 track analogue tape studio.

I know exactly what was done at every single stage of that album.

The guitars are "different" than most, but the sound nothing like a Rockman.

And they sound nothing like a Plexi, because it was not used either.

Sorry to bother your Forum. Gotta go and do more recording work.

Best regards.

Talking about a "plexi" sound - I've got a JTM50, and a Wampler plextortion. I've A-B'd them using a Vox AC 50, modded Fender BF Bassman, and my hotrodded Rebel20. The Wampler is much tighter, and there's a definite "pedal" feel to it. I also have a Fulltone Catalyst, and it actually sounds closer to the JTM, when adjusted properly. All tests were done with the same Celestion Greenback 12's, in a Bassman Cab. Each amp contibuted its own feel, and the BF was definitely as LOUD as the plexi. At lower volumes, the pedals don't clean up like the plexi. As 11 Guage said, the plexi isn't really that compressed and distorted as some think. I'd love to try some of the other pedals mentioned, to compare against the "real" thing.

Well Mr. Ruger, if you were not a Jersey guy...

Well, but you are.

.

Not sure what that's supposed to mean....

But I'm from Ohio. I live in NJ because my wife's family lives here.

Congrats on getting an amp to sound like a Rockman! Tom Scholz took all that time trying to get a little plastic box to sound like an amp, and you reverse-engineered it!! Since you're an ENGINEER....get it?

So you played all the drums too? Frank Beard suck or something?

This is fascinating, I hope he comes back because I'd like to know more about the playing with a coin thing. I've heard it many places and I've tried it myself and it does get some things to sound more like what bg is doing than with a normal pick, but then its really hard to play a whole song with a coin too!

I agree with the idea that that sound could be an amp in a separate room, I've seen that myself where you can get things out of an amp by doing it that you can't get otherwise.

This is starting to go downhill quickly.

Thanks everyone.

I think it best at this point not to talk any more about the "drums." That's a very long story, and deserves to be told with care and contemplation.

Suffice to say the album did quite well, and everyone was happy.

Best regards.

Being a lot time player of BG tunes starting with the First ZZ Top Album, Brown Sugar... we have been all fascinated by his tone and his great sounding records. To have the engineer of his earlier work post the inside story, its really appreciated and respected. Thanks!

As 11 Guage said, the plexi isn't really that compressed and distorted as some think.

That was after a bit of nutty fooling around with amps, because it's not like everyone has a 1959 and/or 1987 kicking around. Then there's the whole issue of blasting it thru at least a single 4X12, what speakers you have, how tired they are...I could go on and on. And thanks to the sources who have these old things. One guy has some old 6CA7's that are mine for the keeping, if I ever have time to hang with him again.

There are just albums with some of those Marshalls, "plexi" or otherwise. Angus Young's amp tones on Highway to Heck tend to be a little more prominent than the typical mix with Malcolm's, and Mal's stuff is really clean and clangy. Angus' amp really has a more clean-ish sound, but with fantastic harmonics as the notes and chords decay. I'd put that more at his attack on the strings, the SG's pickups, and probably whatever speakers were in the cab(s). There's more than just G12M's and G12H's on that stuff.

But I think that YT video for the Rocket Animal really demonstrates what I mean, and it has AC/DC licks in it, to boot! Too much odd order harmonics that give more of that 80's George Lynch/Motley Crue/etc. kind of tone, for lack of better words. And too much gain, yes. Those older Marshalls have bark and crunch, but there is no buzz on the decay unless the speakers are tattered to poop. I even mentioned Yngwie - only uses 1987/1959 or his sig amps, and there is just scant distortion with them, IMO. You couldn't get all of those overtones with the fast passages in a million years.

There's just a million examples - Thin Lizzy, Skynyrd that wasn't the Peaveys, Allman Bros, and on and on. Not only do the JCM800-forward amps have more buzz and all around distortion, but they tend to be darker as well, IMO. and the Jubilees actually have clipping diode distortion.

I think of Slash when I think of JCM800 tones (that's what he used for the 1st GnR album), and then progressively more buzzy as he moved onto the Jubilees. There's also some stuff by Steve Morse when he added a Jub to his collection - and it sticks out like a sore thumb compared to his older/rounder/less distorted amps.

I haven't heard them all, but many "plexi pedals" sound more like "JCM800 pedals" to me. Maybe they get the mids right, but the heat/bark/roundness w/o an overload of odd order harmonics is missing. If a "plexi pedal" was limited to the gain of a 1987/1959, I don't think they would be so popular. Those amps were also typically light on bass unless G12H speakers or something like that were used, but many pedals also let you dial in a buttload of thump, too.

I think that lots of times the ultimate mix of harmonics just comes down to the speakers themselves - even if you have 4 to 8 G12M's, it's really easy to get them to push air, and that's when they start barking.

It's just the oddest thing to me, but I suppose that the idea of a 1987/1959 in a box is so appealing that it's just so popular. And I have to wonder how many folks have actually played some of the actual amps. Like old Fender guitars, you'd have to play a few to get an idea of the tonal variations, too. Again it comes back to cabs - you can plug a sweet head into a cab with stiff G12M75's and it will sound one way, and completely different with G12M30'S. Or Vintage 30's...

On the subject of Plexis, the YJM100 is the best Plexi tone I've ever heard, and it's supposed a straight-up copy of the vintage one... it does have an added attenuator if you want to use it, and a 50/100watt switch, as well as OD, reverb, and Noise gate (because Yngwie unleashes the f-ing fury! lol) but seriously- this thing sounds GREAT, and I want one! This is the tone I've been chasing with my Wampler Plextortion (it does it OK), but think the Wampler Plexi-Drive may get closer:

AK_xNQPxQ_4

Same amp, classic rock tones:

XMhf_2dESt4

the YJM100 is the best Plexi tone I've ever heard, and it's supposed a straight-up copy of the vintage one... it does have an added attenuator if you want to use it, and a 50/100watt switch, as well as OD, reverb, and Noise gate (because Yngwie unleashes the f-ing fury! lol) but seriously- this thing sounds GREAT, and I want one!

What the guys in the video don't mention (unless I missed it) is that the "boost" function is a DOD OD250 inside each YJM. So for anyone that thinks you can get that level of grind from a non-YJM model, you can't. It's a cool sound, but again not IMO a straight-up 1959 sound - more hotrodded.

Yngwie apparently doesn't use the attenuator/verb/gate unless it's some kind of venue that will make the amp more practical around that.

I also don't know what kind of power tubes are in it - Yngwie is pretty specific about that, so I doubt it's just Groove Tube EL34's.

But overall with the attenuator and internal pedal off, that is more of a "plexi sound."

The one other difference? Yngwie uses G12M-75 speakers, which don't give the old G12M30 sound. That said, I would just grab the head and use the cab of your preference. But IDK how practical any of that is - even at half power, that thing will kill your hearing.

The other way that our heroes got all that sustain with an otherwise much cleaner tone was with old fashioned feedback by being close to a cranked up amp. To get the same thing in a pedal is usually done by saturating with a higher gain level - the "overload" of hard clipping/compression/harmonics causes the simulation of endless sustain.

Related to the YJM head - it is a cheezy commercial, but it's something with a fake scenario of Frampton sitting in with a band, and he has a 1959 that just with the little handful of notes in the commercial just gets "that sound." And with the Heil shut off, Peter is another example of using an old Marshall and just how non-distorted it sounds (relative to pedals and newer Marshalls).

All credit to Marshall, yes there are some new amps that will get the tones of yesteryear. I believe that Slash has switched to the Vintage Modern, and the V mode is supposed to be pretty faithful to the old amps. Again, IDK if there's any practicality to it (which does lend credence to the use of pedals that simulate, even if IMO it's "saccharine"), but it's fun to go to a store and play with those things, if you don't get kicked out!

I intend to scratchbuild a 1987 and run it with 6V6's, but it will still be bloody loud...

What the guys in the video don't mention (unless I missed it) is that the "boost" function is a DOD OD250 inside each YJM. So for anyone that thinks you can get that level of grind from a non-YJM model, you can't. It's a cool sound, but again not IMO a straight-up 1959 sound - more hotrodded.
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Did you watch both vids? They play it extensively with the boost OFF.

And a bit more about the actual rhythm guitar recording technique...

The rhythm guitars were done in a precursor-to-Protools style. Short phrases were played, and then double tracked, onto one set of tracks, and then the chord change/next phrase was played on a second set of tracks. This allowed a seamless transition between changes; since the Deans were so close to feedback at all times (acoustically, through the fairly loud JBL monitors), we couldn't even lift the fingers to change chords! Then I would trim the edges of each section by punching in and out to silence at the beginnings and ends of the phrases (somewhat analogous to "trimming the region" today). This method also "eliminated" to a degree the loud harmonic squeaks between chord changes. The punch in/out points, if done exactly perfectly, made for a primitive cross fade of probably 10-20 ms, and ended up sounding very different as rhythm guitar, sort of like a big train rolling down a track, almost out of control; without knowing how it was done, one wouldn't really realise why it was different.

T
ps. thx for illumination...always nice hearing from the horse...also my
ignorance of track foundations and work in the studio .........

To me, this is plexi tone.
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Did you watch both vids? They play it extensively with the boost OFF.

I'm sorry (it's early) - I could have sworn there were segments where the boost was engaged. I had to skim, so I'll have to go back and re-listen to the entire thing.


Either way, I just prefer the 1987/1959 with no boost, ever. It sounds great w/o it, especially for "classic rock" sounds. IMO, everything else while being cool just falls under the guise of hotrodded Marshall. And to bring this full circle, that is really what I think that the bulk of "plexi pedals" do. I realize that it's a matter of semantics, but just like a 2204 and 1987 sound nothing alike, it would be cool to have a pedal that was faithful to at least just the gain range of just the 1987, the bass characteristics, etc.

...Going back to ZZ Top, I think Tush is a prime example. Lots of Bad Company songs are, too. And even AC/DC, despite how lots of guitarists re-enact it with more gain. Angus has a(t least one) sweet old JTM45 that was used in the studio for some of those songs, and it just sounds incredible.

1987/1959 preamp topology:

gain stage 1 -> gain stage 2 -> tone stack -> phase inverter

JCM800/2204/2203 preamp topology:

gain stage 1 -> gain stage 2 -> gain stage 3 -> tone stack -> MV -> PI

1987/1959 with boost:

gain stage 1 (pedal) -> gain stage 2 -> gain stage 3 -> tone stack -> PI

I'll give the vids another listen, all the way thru.

Thank you very much compasspnt for setting the record straight!
The Rockman myth has been around for ages.

I have recorded many great guitarists...Page, Albert King, Cropper, Teenie, Joe Walsh, Lonnie Mack, Stevie Ray & Jimmy Vaughan, Alvin Lee, Reggie Young, and lots & lots more...and to a Man, they sound LIKE THEMSELVES, almost no matter what amp or guitar they use.


Is there any chance that you can mention the Cropper sessions? He has the best tone ever! On second thought... that would derail this thread even further. Ha.

Thank you very much compasspnt for setting the record straight!
The Rockman myth has been around for ages.

I caught "Sharp Dressed Man" today on the fm dial and listened closely. CompassPt is spot-on--you can easily hear that it is a tube powered amp, likely being goosed a bit by an OD or boost. I owned a Rockman back in '87 and you do not hear this tone on SDM.

Recent Top records have the JMP-1 DNA all over them (OD2 mode). I recorded quite a bit with one back in '94 when they were new and when I heard BFG's post-Tonemaster sound starting about 12 years ago or so, I thought it had to be a JMP-1.

So....one can get a BFG sound, but you'll need to determine which era you most wish to emulate.