How to buff in between frets?

Hello all

New member here, but have been a member over on Strat Talk for the last year or so.

I've just done a refin on a maple neck, from poly to nitro. I am overall delighted with the results (pics to follow soon), but have one sticking point:

- When using a buffer to buff/polish between the frets I find I can't get close enough to each fret without buffing the fret, which would be fine if it didn't just cause the polish and the buffer head to go grey/black with the metal of the fret...

- Consequently, between each fret is nice and smooth and shiny in the centre area of the wood, but dull and matte along the sides next to the fret


Any advice/suggestions for this would be gratefully received. :smile:

Use a fine grit wet/dry sandpaper right up to the frets, and then go to a polish compound. Go lightly though, so you don't end up going through the finish. I cut a small piece of sandpaper and fold it over. It makes a nice little sanding block out of itself.

When you're done, it should look like this!

Idea - if you use one of the automotive finishing ultra-fine polishes on a foam spot pad with a dual-action (random orbit) polisher, you can go right over the frets and all. This stuff is used for removing all traces of 2500-3000 grit swirl marks, it works on car paint incl soft nitro.

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/113/001otj.jpg

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1392/002zin.jpg

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4148/003oke.jpg


Thanks for your replies so far; I should add a bit more info.

I have already wet sanded, though only up to 1500; I actually did already do the folding a bit of sandpaper trick, to get right up to the frets. Sanding itself I am fine with (although I am already starting to go through the tint of the nitro, so don't want to sand any more if I can help it).

It's the buffing that is a problem; having used my power buffer/polisher (which did a great job on the back of the neck as the pic hopefully shows!) it just isn't effective on the front, cos the frets just gunk it up with the grey/black stuff (metal filings caused by the polishing compound?) and then actually discolour the polishing compound, which in turn discolours the finish a little.....

So I can't really afford a dual action polisher on top of what I have already, but how come that wouldn't have the same issue, if you polish over the frets?

Here's a pic of the polish I am using, and the effect on a polishing head I tried using to get between the frets....

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4388/0012t.jpg

Believe it or not, I use Mother's Metal Polish. I'm sure you could get it on Amazon. It's a great polishing compound. You need to use a good polish on a small rag and buff really good along the frets to get that area smooth and shiny.

How about polishing the frets first, to get rid of all that oxidation. Then maybe the buffer won't get loaded up with it? I tape off my frets with painter's blue tape, and polish them with my Dremel. You could try that on the first few frets, just to see if it helps.

Micromesh works great for me. I have a bunch of sanding blocks of varying widths to cover the range of fret spacings.

How about polishing the frets first, to get rid of all that oxidation. Then maybe the buffer won't get loaded up with it? I tape off my frets with painter's blue tape, and polish them with my Dremel. You could try that on the first few frets, just to see if it helps.

Gah, that's what I kept hoping! I've polished these frets many, many times.....still get the metallic gunk......

I think I'll give your suggestion a go, it had occured to me to try that, but seemed a touch labour (and tape!) intensive....

I'll also have a look at micromesh, thanks Pavel.

I think I see the problem. The Turtle Wax is a wax not a polish, a polish is a (fine) abrasive.

This is a polish
http://www.britemax.co.uk/acatalog/BlackMax_double.gif
or here, another make - http://www.menzernausa.com/menzerna-automotive.htm
it hasn't got any wax or silicone in it. It is the last polish one uses on a top end car paint job, before the sealant and the wax.

A carnauba wax over the buffed neck gives a very nice feel, glass smooth but not sticky.

When you're done, it should look like this!

:lol::lol:

I think I see the problem. The Turtle Wax is a wax not a polish, a polish is a (fine) abrasive.

This is a polish
http://www.britemax.co.uk/acatalog/BlackMax_double.gif
or here, another make - http://www.menzernausa.com/menzerna-automotive.htm
it hasn't got any wax or silicone in it. It is the last polish one uses on a top end car paint job, before the sealant and the wax.

A carnauba wax over the buffed neck gives a very nice feel, glass smooth but not sticky.

Blimey, you're right!! I've been using that for months, always got good results till now (and I love it's scent!!) but at no point did I actually twig that it was wax, not polish!! :oops:

Now to go and buy some actual polish! Thanks jefrs. :smile:

The situation under discussion does not (and never did) require power tools with attachments.

I do all my instrument sanding, rubbing, buffing and polishing "by hand"... it takes a little effort but, there is very little danger of going too far.

If you are in production you need power... but for a project guitar, na!

For instance: polishing frets with a dremel... I would never do that. Just not necessary.
These surfaces are too small and critical to attack with power tools.

The situation under discussion does not (and never did) require power tools with attachments.

I do all my instrument sanding, rubbing, buffing and polishing "by hand"... it takes a little effort but, there is very little danger of going too far.

If you are in production you need power... but for a project guitar, na!

For instance: polishing frets with a dremel... I would never do that. Just not necessary.
These surfaces are too small and critical to attack with power tools.

I had done all the sanding by hand, and the buffing and polishing (well, waxing I now realise) by hand to begin with......only going on to a fairly gentle, low powered power polisher when my handiwork appeared to be getting nowhere fast (and having cramp in my hand!!). I have now bought some actual polish, so I will be buffing and polishing by hand again, see how I get on this time....

"For instance: polishing frets with a dremel... I would never do that. Just not necessary.
These surfaces are too small and critical to attack with power tools."

WHAT! Do you think I'm using a grinding bit? Just using the cotton buffing wheels, and the green polish that comes in a decent Dremel kit. There's nothing aggressive about this approach. Tape off the fret, make a couple passes back and forth, and your frets are beautifully polished and cleansed of oxidation.

"For instance: polishing frets with a dremel... I would never do that. Just not necessary.
These surfaces are too small and critical to attack with power tools."

WHAT! Do you think I'm using a grinding bit? Just using the cotton buffing wheels, and the green polish that comes in a decent Dremel kit. There's nothing aggressive about this approach. Tape off the fret, make a couple passes back and forth, and your frets are beautifully polished and cleansed of oxidation.

No I didn't think that. My main point is that it is "just not necessary." IMO.
A few swipes with a rag and you are done.
By all means polish at will with whatever you wish.

I do the frets last, and the black stuff wipes right off. Then I wash my buffer pad.

I do the frets last, and the black stuff wipes right off. Then I wash my buffer pad.

I have washed my buffer pads and most of the black stuff comes off......but seems never-ending! The next time I polish, just as much black stuff gunks it up again...

I'm not understanding how you all are managing (unless by hand, I mean) to buff ONLY in between the frets, and not actually touch the frets at the same time.


BTW, have bought some proper polish as suggested (in fact, it ended up being the exact stuff in the photo) and some micromesh.....

I have washed my buffer pads and most of the black stuff comes off......but seems never-ending! The next time I polish, just as much black stuff gunks it up again...

I'm not understanding how you all are managing (unless by hand, I mean) to buff ONLY in between the frets, and not actually touch the frets at the same time.


BTW, have bought some proper polish as suggested (in fact, it ended up being the exact stuff in the photo) and some micromesh.....

The black stuff comes from the metal on the frets. Its not tarnish, so everytime you buff with a machine buffer and compound it will turn black. When I am buffing a lacquered fretboard neck, I simply buff the back, sides, and headstock first. Then I buff the fretboard. The buffing wheel and polishing compound turn black, but I simply wipe it off after I am done. It doesn't stain the lacquer. After I wipe it off with a clean cloth, I apply wax. Then I wash the buffing pad(lambs wool bonnet) to remove the black stuff and polishing compound.

Doesn't wiping the fretwire down with naphtha before installing the frets help with this?

The situation under discussion does not (and never did) require power tools with attachments.

I do all my instrument sanding, rubbing, buffing and polishing "by hand"... it takes a little effort but, there is very little danger of going too far.

If you are in production you need power... but for a project guitar, na!

For instance: polishing frets with a dremel... I would never do that. Just not necessary.
These surfaces are too small and critical to attack with power tools.

I think that's the point of using a DA machine with a foam pad. It does a better job than doing it by hand. No, really it does. The 4-in foam spot pad glides over the frets cleaning and polishing right into their edges, but the grit is not coarse enough to do more than make the frets shiny.

Whereas using a Dremel buffing pad can burn the wood. They have their uses but this ain't one.

Now I wouldn't rush out to buy a DA for doing guitars, but I have one for the cars.

You may have a random orbit sander with a Velcro backing disc, they will take foam polishing pads too. You could try using the wool pad but that is intended for coarse cutting compound.

Fine powdered pumice works quite well by hand too,. You do get dust everywhere, and it makes micro-scratches but it doesn't stick to the pickups like steel wool does.

"Whereas using a Dremel buffing pad can burn the wood."

"Burn the wood?" One would have to be very inept to burn anything. Painter's tape on either side of a fret, couple of passes with the Dremel buffing wheel, peel off the tape, and move on to the next fret. Wood is never touched, and only slight pressure is involved. The green Dremel paste compound works fine, and all tarnish is removed. No more black stuff to deal with. Frets are like slippery glass! The Dremel buffing wheel I use is 1/2" in diameter, and is 5/16" thick. Hold the tool as close to parallel with the neck as you can.
I restore old pedal steel guitars, so I always have lots of old polished aluminum to deal with. If you use regular polishes like Nevr Dull, or Flitz, or Meguiar's, you'll be polishing all day! The very best metal polish I've found is "Purple Polish" from California Custom. And their De-Oxidizer is amazing. You put on the De-Oxy, then put the Purp over is. You just wipe it off with a soft cloth. No buffing, no rubbing, totally effortless! For use on all metals, not just aluminum. Removes rust from chrome too.
http://www.californiacustom.com/ourproducts.html

I'm not understanding how you all are managing (unless by hand, I mean) to buff ONLY in between the frets, and not actually touch the frets at the same time..

The cone-shaped buffing tip you have in the photo may be the problem if it only allows you to spin the thing with the shaft pointed across the neck. See if you can get something that will allow you to turn ninety degrees and run the buffing pad across the neck instead of up and down. In other words, if it's on a shaft, the shaft should be parallel to the length of the neck instead of across it. That way your frets get shined with the finish and the black stuff doesn't drag as much into the lacquer.

"Whereas using a Dremel buffing pad can burn the wood."

"Burn the wood?" One would have to be very inept to burn anything. Painter's tape on either side of a fret, couple of passes with the Dremel buffing wheel, peel off the tape, and move on to the next fret. Wood is never touched, and only slight pressure is involved. The green Dremel paste compound works fine, and all tarnish is removed. No more black stuff to deal with. Frets are like slippery glass! The Dremel buffing wheel I use is 1/2" in diameter, and is 5/16" thick. Hold the tool as close to parallel with the neck as you can.
I restore old pedal steel guitars, so I always have lots of old polished aluminum to deal with. If you use regular polishes like Nevr Dull, or Flitz, or Meguiar's, you'll be polishing all day! The very best metal polish I've found is "Purple Polish" from California Custom. And their De-Oxidizer is amazing. You put on the De-Oxy, then put the Purp over is. You just wipe it off with a soft cloth. No buffing, no rubbing, totally effortless! For use on all metals, not just aluminum. Removes rust from chrome too.
http://www.californiacustom.com/ourproducts.html

The OP is asking about buffing the fretboard, not polishing the frets, so one is in fact aiming for the wood with the buffer, and the Dremel buffing disc can easily burn the poly on a maple fretboard. When I received my Baja06 it had poly over the frets and I tried to use the Dremel, which is how I know that yes, it burns the wood. or rather the poly on the maple fretboard. Nevermind, it polishes out with a foam pad and compound on the DA.

"The OP is asking about buffing the fretboard, not polishing the frets, so one is in fact aiming for the wood with the buffer, and the Dremel buffing disc can easily burn the poly on a maple fretboard."

jefrs! It seems we're talking about two very different things. I would never use a Dremel on poly or wood! Why? It's high speed will burn either one. I'm talking about buffing the frets, which will remove the black crud that is gumming up his buffing pads. Using my method, with the painter's tape, it removes any chance of the Dremel touching wood or poly. And, it will clean and buff the frets of all oxidation,,, the black stuff.

I do this to all the guitars I work on. Only takes me about 20 minutes. The smooth, high-shined frets are so easy to play! Bending is effortless and smooth. All my customers love the effect. Brass is actually quite porous, scratches quite easily from the much harder steel strings, and those pores and scratches fill up with oxidation. Buffing them cleans everything, gives a smoother, by far, surface, and no more black stuff! Try it! You'll like it!

In this case, Jefrs wins! (Not about the dremel stuff, I don't have one so can't comment)

I ended buying the exact polish pictured, cos I couldn't find anything better and came here looking for advice, so was happy to take it.

In the end, I just took my time and did a lot of very precise polishing by hand (well, fingertip more specifically) on the areas that needed it. Took a long time, but the results in the end, using a microfibre cloth, the polish as above then a coat of the wax I was already using:

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2144/0022ef.jpg

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1326/0013ndz.jpg

There is still some room for improvement, but I expect this is purely just down to me to spend more careful time doing the same as above. I think it'll probably do as is now.

Thank you all very much for your advice and suggestions. :smile:

I don't win anything. This is a discussion not a competition.

But I think the point of using a machine polisher is that is does not take a long time and a lot of elbow grease, been there - plus it will polish the nickel-silver alloy frets and you can use it over the rest of the guitar paintwork.

I don't win anything. This is a discussion not a competition.

But I think the point of using a machine polisher is that is does not take a long time and a lot of elbow grease, been there - plus it will polish the nickel-silver alloy frets and you can use it over the rest of the guitar paintwork.

I know, I know, I was only messing about re the win! I forgot to put the winking face after I said it!

I did try the machine polisher again on this with the polish you recommended, but it still got too gunked up too quickly for my liking, so I quickly settled on completing it by hand.

I will continue to use the machine polisher I have for everything else except nitro-finished maple fretboards (which I do not have any more of at this point in time anyway), although it's a bit big so won't be able to get into the horns etc of a strat body, but based on this experience, and the thin finish I am aiming for (my other current project is a blond finish on a 1 piece swamp ash body) then doing the delicate areas by hand is fine with me. I think it may even be more satisfying in a sense.



Thanks again for your advice. :smile:

What machine polisher are you using? - it should not be coming away black, or else should buff off with the micro-fibre when dry. There again, the Britemax Black Max #4 UF polishing pad glaze is black and intended for dark paints (you can use stuff this fine for polishing plastic lenses).

I do use the DA machine over nitro spot repairs on the car and it works well, but yes, nitro is much softer than poly. There are some bits where the machine won't fit but hand rubbing on the body always seems to leave holograms which the machine can remove, and then you belt-buckle it.

how did you remove the poly finish?

The neck was pretty old, so there actually wasn't that much to remove. A combination of paint/varnish stripper from my local diy shop, then sanding.

As with the finishing, easy on the back of the neck. PITA on the front, between the frets.

What about stripping around the Decal?

What about stripping around the Decal?

Oh, that I left alone. Well I sanded it down as much as I dared to remove some of the poly. Then just a tiny amount of amber nitro over it to blend with the rest of the neck, then clear coated as much as the rest of the neck.

Here's how that looks now:

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7559/014ido.jpg

Please note, though, that this was the first neck I ever refinished, I am a total amateur, so do not go by my experiences alone - there are a LOT of people on finely finished who know A LOT more than me about finishing!

Oh, that I left alone. Well I sanded it down as much as I dared to remove some of the poly. Then just a tiny amount of amber nitro over it to blend with the rest of the neck, then clear coated as much as the rest of the neck.

Here's how that looks now:

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7559/014ido.jpg

Please note, though, that this was the first neck I ever refinished, I am a total amateur, so do not go by my experiences alone - there are a LOT of people on finely finished who know A LOT more than me about finishing!

You did good!

Ah, thanks Dad!



(sorry, couldn't resist. :smile: )