Learn songs or learn technique

Hello guys, I've been playing for about 2 years and I try to practice technique as much as possible, I also play with a country band. When we practice or play live I feel like according to my technique skills (not professional) I should be playing songs at a higher level (cleaner, smoother) however, I can't seem to find my groove as I think I should. I dont know if its because im playing infront of people and I get nervous or wth. So my question is should i concentrate more on working on songs than technique? Anyways Any advice would help. So

Someone once said if you practice scales all the time you get good at playing scales. If you practice playing songs all the time you get good at playing songs. That always stuck with me.

IMHO I've gotten to be a much better player learning complete songs and full solos and playing with a band than from practicing scales and learning licks.

Not much good to have one without the other.

Someone once said if you practice scales all the time you get good at playing scales. If you practice playing songs all the time you get good at playing songs. That always stuck with me.

IMHO I've gotten to be a much better player learning complete songs and full solos and playing with a band than from practicing scales and learning licks.

+1

Seek balance in your practice routine. Work scales and technique exercises to warm up then work on songs. Find songs that streatch your abilities technique wise.

Do the noodle for warm-up (scales and technique) and songs for playing.

Lately, I've been trying to learn some Knopfler-ish techniques, with that typical chicken pickin' and somewhat weird fast licks. So I practice those licks and chicken pickin' during warm up and play some Dire Straits/Knopfler when I'm all warm and fuzzy.

So far, I'm miles away from coming close to making it sound presentable.

Practice your technique on your songs. You need scale practice too, but playing scales over your song progressions, and as part of working on your parts will benefit both technique and learning to play your parts.

It's been my experience when your sitting with a group of people in a room or around a campfire no one gives a **** that you can play scales like Segovia. It's better to be able to play complete songs start to finish and know all the words. Despite what they tell you, few people ever know the song completely and will usually join in on the chorus 'only'. When you're by yourself it's natural to want to learn more and know more about technique- do both.

I've always thought that learning songs WAS learning technique. (?)

Choose songs to learn particular techniques.

Music is just a means to superior technique, right?

Learn songs or create your own, there's too many guitarist on youtube who think aimless twiddling is somehow impressive or listenable.

I'm a thief of the worst kind. I steel licks from learned songs left and right.

This hack learns songs with parts that have techniques I need to learn ( fast chord switches, minor scales, etc. ). Works for me.

I've always thought that learning songs WAS learning technique. (?)

I though learning techniques would make learning songs easier. I learn techniques from my instructor. I learn songs from Rocksmith :smile:

Carl

There's three parts to practice, really.

There's chops, or technique...just the physical aspect of playing...speed, accuracy, all that.

Then there's knowledge...scales, chords, theory, etc.

And then there's tunes--making music, writing it or playing other people's tunes...

It all really depends on what you want to do, what kind of music you make...your practice routine can change, it can weigh heavier in one area for a week or two, then shift the balance to somewhere else...I don't really advocate "well rounded" practice sessions--it's too much for the brain to retain. Sit down with a clear focus, and then give your brain (and hands, if you're practicing chops) a break. I see people try to cram way too much in to a practice session.

Which is the most important? Well, nobody picks up a guitar for the first time because they're just itching to play a scale...you've got to learn songs. But I think you can apply the other stuff in the context of those songs...I guess I have it easy, being that jazz is what I was called to play, because I absolutely have to practice all of this stuff to stay viable...

Being self-taught, I never learned scales until recently. Even now, the only scales I've really learned are the "do-re-mi" scales in several different keys and the major and minor pentatonic scales. I do practice them sometimes, but I find playing songs to be much more fun. But then, nobody's beating down my door to get me to join their band, either.

That's ok--I'm having a lot of fun playing my guitar and even enjoy open mic nights. Jegonzal--I think you'll find that your playing in front of people will get a lot better if you just play your guitar like you're alone at home, with the exception that if you make a mistake in the middle of a song you just plow through it as if it didn't happen. Easy to say, but it was tough for me to learn to do! Go up there, smile, find a really good-looking woman to sing to and let it rip!

I would like to add the obvious to all this good advice.
Every time you pick up the guitar and play you get a little better at it. (Even if it feels like you're in a rut.)

I want to say I fall into the "a little bit of both" camp, but you said you're in a country band... I'd definitely work on songs and expand my songbook if I were you.

That said, you can't go wrong listening to an instructor's advice like jazztele's.

Do you know Robert Earl Keen's "Corpus Christi Bay" by any chance?

I would like to add the obvious to all this good advice.
Every time you pick up the guitar and play you get a little better at it. (Even if it feels like you're in a rut.)

You don't get better if you only play stuff that you can already play. If I noodle on the same minor pentatonic all day long, I don't get any better.

This isn't an either/or question as far as I'm concerned. I'm a classically-trained trumpet player in addition to being a self-taught guitarist. I was taught that you learn and practice technique so that the music is easier to play. You practice and practice things like scales, arpeggios, alternate fingerings, and transpositions so that when you sit down to play music, you don't struggle through the technique. I was also taught to read through a piece of music and figure out what were going to be the hardest technical passages and learn those first--nail them. Once you had the hard parts nailed, you then played the piece so that you weren't worried about technique but focused on making music.

In my experience, the best way to practice has been to devote the first 15 minutes of the session to warmup and technical proficiency, and then make music for the other 45 minutes.

If you look at a top tennis pro, they practice their technique to get ready for the match. They don't reach a point where they stop practicing their serve. They will always practice technique to make the match easier.

I've come to the conclusion that the best approach is songs, parts, and analysis.

1. Learn songs

2. Learn the "parts" of those tunes (melody, key musical figures or riffs, solos if possible).

3. Analyze why these things go together the way they do.

4. Lastly, try to apply what you learn to other tunes when possible.

Technique is what you use to get the skills to play the song. I was at a Victor Wooten bass workshop last week and someone asked a question about two hand tapping and Victor asked "Do you have a reason to know how to do that?" His message was that you should have a musical purpose for the technique you learn. Otherwise it's just a meaningless exercise.

Thanks everybody for all the tips. And yes I was under the impression that learning technique would make learning songs alot easier but I've realized that even though it does help, I still seem to struggle with songs that don't require too much technique. I will take ur advise and try to balance technique and song playing. It's funny to say this but if I don't practice technique I don't feel like I've practiced. Lol

I want to say I fall into the "a little bit of both" camp, but you said you're in a country band... I'd definitely work on songs and expand my songbook if I were you.

That said, you can't go wrong listening to an instructor's advice like jazztele's.

Do you know Robert Earl Keen's "Corpus Christi Bay" by any chance?

I don't think I know him.

Technique is what you use to get the skills to play the song. I was at a Victor Wooten bass workshop last week and someone asked a question about two hand tapping and Victor asked "Do you have a reason to know how to do that?" His message was that you should have a musical purpose for the technique you learn. Otherwise it's just a meaningless exercise.

Ah.... yes and no...I kinda hate that Wooten said that, actually...probably made the kid feel 6 inches tall.

Sometimes, learning a new technique or trick can inspire creativity. The trick is to take everything you learn and apply it musically ASAP. But by no means do you have to define needs as a prerequisite...I can actually think of several ideas I'd have never come up with if I didn't have certain techniques under my belt first...

learning songs forces you to learn new techniques ... no guitarist in the history of the world ever entertained a single person or made a dime playing scales ... it sounds counter-intuitive, but you can never know enough theory ... but when you are playing, you have to forget it all ...

Thanks everybody for all the tips. And yes I was under the impression that learning technique would make learning songs alot easier but I've realized that even though it does help, I still seem to struggle with songs that don't require too much technique. I will take ur advise and try to balance technique and song playing. It's funny to say this but if I don't practice technique I don't feel like I've practiced. Lol

I think the vital thing for you to do is think about what the important technical challenges are of the songs you're wanting to practice that day. Start your practice time by working on those technical aspects until you feel progress or proficiency with those issues. Then, move on to playing the songs.

Also, 2 years isn't all that long to have been playing, so I'm not surprised that you don't feel completely comfortable. I've been told by language teachers that it takes an adult approximately 5 years to be able to learn a second language and speak it like a native. I would say that music is no different. Once you're an established musician, it's much easier to learn new instruments than it was to learn the first one. Your brain has to learn music before the instrument will feel like second nature.

Technique is what you use to get the skills to play the song. I was at a Victor Wooten bass workshop last week and someone asked a question about two hand tapping and Victor asked "Do you have a reason to know how to do that?" His message was that you should have a musical purpose for the technique you learn. Otherwise it's just a meaningless exercise.

I'm learning all sorts of techniques, not for a particular purpose but to see if it's something I'm good at or enjoy. I've said it before but I don't know what I'm going to get the most joy from yet. I learn different songs, I learn different techniques mostly to get exposure to those things. I may find that I am an excellent folk type player vs a shredder. But I don't know if I don't learn how to play fast or play chords.

Carl

I think the vital thing for you to do is think about what the important technical challenges are of the songs you're wanting to practice that day. Start your practice time by working on those technical aspects until you feel progress or proficiency with those issues. Then, move on to playing the songs.

Also, 2 years isn't all that long to have been playing, so I'm not surprised that you don't feel completely comfortable. I've been told by language teachers that it takes an adult approximately 5 years to be able to learn a second language and speak it like a native. I would say that music is no different. Once you're an established musician, it's much easier to learn new instruments than it was to learn the first one. Your brain has to learn music before the instrument will feel like second nature.

Thank you much for your tip. I agree maybe I might be getting ahead of myself.

As many have sort of already alluded to - it really depends on how complex you wanna get with the songs you learn.
If you're only gonna play 3 chord rock and blues then no, you don't need much (if any) scale practice.
(*No value judgment - I LOVE and was partially raised on and still play constantly 3 chord R&R.)
But if you have a desire to learn some jazz or fusion or prog you will need some technique practice for it's own sake to get to that point OF playing those songs - correctly anyway.

This can also be accomplished w/o 'actual' tech practice if ... and this is a big if - you're gigging 5 nights a week for at least 4 hours a night - you'll get good in 3 or 4 years. That whole 10,000 hour thing.

And lest we not forget ... this IS the technique section.

You don't get better if you only play stuff that you can already play. If I noodle on the same minor pentatonic all day long, I don't get any better.

Ah Ha!!! That´s my problem!

Point well taken. And I do agree to a point. But when you feel discouraged you have two choices. Stop or pick it up again. I do see value in taking a needed break sometimes, but I tend to err on the side of "just play anyway".

And the need to work on new material cannot be overstated.

To word my point another way...it never hurts to play more. (at the risk of getting into a "proper technique" debate) :wink:

This is a timely discussion for me. I've been playing for 15 years. I am an ok guitar player, some would say good player, but have recently embarked on a mission to learn modes/scales, etc from a really good teacher. I just felt like I had gotten about as far as I was going to be able to go with a limited technical knowledge of the instrument, maj/minor pents, bar/cowboy chords, etc. I can quickly pick up on new songs via utube, etc, but I want to try to learn how to be a good musician, not just a good guitar player. I'm just getting started with it, so we'll see.

I kind of learned things in reverse.

When I first started, all I ever learned for years was songs, from beginning to end.
The guitar parts plus singing, but this made me end up technique deficient at the end of many years of playing. Even gigging as the front man in bands I was always able to get by this way. If I couldnt play the lead part, someone else could and we'd switch that up anyway from song to song just for variety sake.

Now when I practcice all i work on is scales, technique and picking, because learning songs is so easy to me. Now I'm a more balanced player and more capable solo player too. One way or the other, I think you have to do both to progress, unless you are immensely talented.

I did want to add one thing; I enjoy playing guitar and learning more, so for me, it's just something else to learn. People act like it's agony to to learn scales. I don't. It's just another step in a process in which there never really is an "end". I mean, do we ever really get to a place where we can say I know all there is to know, and I don't want to learn more? I enjoy learning. The part that I've REALLY had to learn over the years, more than any technique or skill, is to enjoy the process; the "road" if you will. We never "get there", where ever "there" is.

So make sure you have fun with it. There is plenty of music to be had in maj/minor pents, etc. if that's where your creativity is taking you now. Have fun with it, enjoy every minute of it. When you are ready, you can pick up scales, theory and modes. Hell, it took me 15 years of playing to get where I am, and I'm just starting that stuff. I've had a lot of fun getting here, and I'll have a lot more fun in the next 15 years playing my guitar!

Hope that makes sense.

I play country too and I spend 15% of my time on technical stuff, and 85% of my time gettin' the song where I want it with my band. That's my ratio, find your own is my suggestion.

Steal as many licks as you can so you aren't repeating licks all the time in every song. That is my main suggestion however you get there is your deal. Have fun and love the guitar!

Spend 15%-25% warming up and technique. Than the rest of the time work on your songs. Learn them. Learn them so well you do not have to think about technique. That is the point at which you are able to relax and "just play" the song. If your playing in a cover band playing 40+ songs a night it will take a while to get them all down. Pick a few a week to perfect and really just break em down. Maybe start with the easy ones. It will feel good scratching some off your list. Of course you'll always add new songs so you list will never end. :lol:

I choose 2 types of song - the first is something easy and comfortable and I usually start and finish with this type, as it ensures I enjoy the session. The second, is my middle part of the practice session and will be something I will struggle with (only played 18 months), because it has techniques or fingerings I'm not comfortable with yet. I feel I get something out of the whole session, as I'm learning new songs at the same time as practising technique. Scales and so on are obviously useful, but I merely see them as a sculptors block of marble - quite useless in the wrong hands. By learning a song which uses combinations of notes from relevant scales - much in the way that sculptor uses chisels to shape the block of marble, I am then learning the scales in a usable way.
Just the thoughts of a novice :smile:

You might find some useful information on my website. Lot's of videos there that could help you with your technique.