why?

why is it that if i run two pedals, both with true bypass and with really good cables, my tone is still way better if i just run straight to the amp?

is that just the curse of pedals?

More cables between you and the amp + patch cables + wires connecting the in/output jack to the switch = more cable length = capacitance issues. It's inherent.

ok thanks, i am done with them then. i am using one 3 ft canare and a 10 ft canare and a single tiny canare jumper that might be 6 inches.

thanks for the reply.

That's not enough 'cable' to do any real sonic damage, especially with Canare.
The degradation should be miniscule with maybe 14' of wire and jacks - even with Rupert Neves ears. It takes about 18 feet of cable and jacks to start really messing with your sound.
What pedals exactly?

It's like you said in your first post. It's really the nature of the beast. Almost like building your tone around the inefficiencies of your setup. Guitar, pedal(s), cables, amp, the room, and all their parts.

Edit: Everything effects your tone. Good or bad. Even 1 foot of cable can have an effect on something. The difference is if you hear it or not, and like it or not.

That's not enough 'cable' to do any real sonic damage, especially with Canare.
The degradation should be miniscule with maybe 14' of wire and jacks - even with Rupert Neves ears. It takes about 18 feet of cable and jacks to start really messing with your sound.
What pedals exactly?

a Red Repeat delay and a boutique dist/boost pedal a guy in Indy built for me after i saw the one he built for Mandy.

that's it.

I couldn't find anything on the Carl Martin website that indicates if the 'red repeat' is in fact TBP(?). Even if it isn't I can't imagine it would degrade your signal too much.
Switch out ALL the cables. The 6" jumper may be bad (I just dealt with that issue on one of my boards).
Re-do everything one piece at a time - cable, pedal, jumper, pedal, cable, amp.

I'm sure you've already tried this, but make sure your pedal volumes are all above the amp volume. Pedals below parity can be a real tone sucker.

I couldn't find anything on the Carl Martin website that indicates if the 'red repeat' is in fact TBP(?).

It's not - it sounds nice but its not TBP.

I'm sure you've already tried this, but make sure your pedal volumes are all above the amp volume. Pedals below parity can be a real tone sucker.

+1 and a poster above concurs that the red repeat is not TPB.

*also is the little jumper cable at least a semi-decent quality shorty i.e., planet waves, di marzio, whirwind ... at least not a radio shack cable or something that came 'free' with a pedal?

+1 and a poster above concurs that the red repeat is not TPB.

*also is the little jumper cable at least a semi-decent quality shorty i.e., planet waves, di marzio, whirwind ... at least not a radio shack cable or something that came 'free' with a pedal?

great , the guy who sold me the red repeat swore it was TBP. the jumper is also canare. thanks for all your help guys.

Switch out ALL the cables. The 6" jumper may be bad (I just dealt with that issue on one of my boards).
Re-do everything one piece at a time - cable, pedal, jumper, pedal, cable, amp.

+1. I've had a bad patch cable (that was going bad but not all the way there yet) ruin my day a couple of times.

Barring that, if you are 100% sure that boutique drive is TB, is HAS TO BE the Red Repeat...and you have very sensitive ears (as do I). That can be a blessing AND a curse. Don't let it stop you from exploring the world of pedals... I now have a very large pedalboard (at home, I don't gig with it, too big), and I have buffers in place to keep my pedalboard sounding as if I were plugged into the amp.

Also, alot of pros who hear the same thing you're hearing.... which should be high-end loss.... simply turn up the treble on the amp (provided the pedals are "always on" pedals.)

i've never understood how people can think their sound is going to be the same plugging into pedals as it will be plugging direct into an amp. if you plug into even one tb pedal you are adding a cable, 2 plugs, 2 jacks and a mechanical connection switch into the signal path. if you are going to be looking for it you are going to find a difference.

I think in this particular case it's an obvious and negative degradation in sound, which with two pedals (TBP or otherwise) and decent cables there shouldn't be.

*If you have decent gear, one or two well placed buffered pedals and a clean pwr sply you 'should' be able to run 8 or 9 pedals w/o significant tone change. And I'm not talking about some custom, pro made pdl brd - just a basic slab of wood with velcro on it and decent, iso'd pwr sply or ALL batteries.

*If you have decent gear, one or two well placed buffered pedals and a clean pwr sply you 'should' be able to run 8 or 9 pedals w/o significant tone change.

Bingo! It's easy to get caught up in "true bypass fever", but in reality nothing could be worse for your signal than a pedalboard full of true bypass pedals! The signal decays rapidly through the jacks/switches/patch cords. Most of my pedals are true bypass, so if I have more than just a couple in the chain I put a buffered pedal first, even if I'm not using it. The signal maintains better on the way to the amp. It won't sound like "straight into the amp", but "straight into the amp" wont sound like a pedalboard! It's a compromise that goes with the territory.