So who here thinks Zeppelin is 'metal'?

All over ive been seeing people calling led zeppelin a 'metal' band, even daring to say a 'heavy metal' band. By my standards metal is dark-centered, has much screaming, non-melodic, and based solely on guitar riffs. Even by 1970's standards, Zep was not metal. The lyrics discussed things that were kinda considered inappropriate at the time, but it was by no means 'metal' and different from other bands like Pink Floyd.

Anyways, it is sketchy for anyone to place Led Zeppelin in a category because it was such a variety of genres. All of their songs are different like 'Hey Hey What can I Do', 'Down By the Seaside', 'What is and Never should be', or 'All of my Love'. But there was maybe ONE song came close ('No Quarter') and that was it. It is not 'metal' today, and it never was IMO.

But feel free to discuss your opinions.

Hard Rock yes, but not metal, Black Sabbath were metal and sounded defintely differnet.

Dazed and Confused always makes me think of Sabbath

not metal.
same applies to AC/DC

sabbath not metal...zep not metal...metal to me is metallica and bands like them

I took a girlfriend that i had at the time , to see them in the late 60's. it might have been their first tour, i'm not sure. at the time, i was into people like muddy waters, steve cropper and otis redding so, i was not impressed. they seemed like a lot of sizzle and not much steak. i appreciate them more now than i did then.

Heavy metal, as a directly accurate term and pre-speed/pre-thrash usually applies more to music that came after it in the late-1970s and early-1980s probably starting with the new wave of British metal, but Led Zep was certainly one of the big influences along with KISS, AC-DC, and Deep Purple.

Most heavy metal types whether it's Metallica, Anthrax, Pantera, or later stuff often mention these influential '70s bands. I don't have any problem with people calling Led Zep metal, because with a few others in the era, they invented it. The standard heavy metal bands of the 1980s and later won't go tooting their own horn without mentioned Zep along the way. Somewhere there was nu-metal and people will probably go on arguing about when that actually "started".

Before the legions of late-70s and 1980s metalheads were wanking on their sunburst Les Pauls in front of Marshall stacks, Jimmy Page was out there doing it and giving new players a lot of ideas.

Welcome new member and thanks for making your first post on my thread ;)

There's too many genres these days...heavy metal, thrash metal, doom metal, goth metal, power metal, etc.

I'd call Zep progressive rock.

First band ever described as "heavy metal" was Deep Purple. By the OP's definition they do not even fit the bill, and yet they were de facto The "heavy-metal" band.

Back then we would call Led Zep and Black Sabbath prog-rock or heavy-rock. Both do also fit the Deep Purple "heavy-metal" tag. The dividing line between progressive and heavy rock was a bit vague, prog rock a bit lighter - Led Zep, heavy was heavier - Black Sabbath. But where did all the rest fit in? - Uriah Heap, Budgie, IF, Coliseum, Mountain, and the rest - there were lots and lots of them.

Not sure when the "metal" tag finally caught on but "heavy metal" was definitely first applied to Deep Purple In Rock.

All over ive been seeing people calling led zeppelin a 'metal' band, even daring to say a 'heavy metal' band.

Metal is Heavy Metal, they are the same thing. People just say Metal because they are too lazy to say the full phrase Heavy Metal.


By my standards metal is dark-centered, has much screaming, non-melodic, and based solely on guitar riffs.

The fact is you are not the arbiter of what Heavy Metal means. It doesn't really matter what your subjective view of Heavy Metal is when the phrase is part of a long and complex linguistic narrative. In reality Heavy Metal is what the first person intended the word to describe and also the generalized understanding of the word. The music will always exist before the labels do. So you can't really expect the music to conform 100% to the definition the label implies. Plus not every band just plays one genre. So you can't use what doesn't conform to discredit what does.

It is not 'metal' today, and it never was IMO.


It seems ridiculous that one of the bands (of which there are many) that motivated people to coin the phrase Heavy Metal cannot be Heavy Metal. I think you are confusing the fact that most of today's Metal music is nothing like Led Zepplin, with Led Zepplin not being Metal. Most of the bands labelled as Metal today are either off-shoots of the original Heavy Metal bands so sound different or bands performing who appropriate the label to appeal to an already existing market.

Also anyone else bored to hell with discussing Led Zepplin, Iron Maiden, Deep Purple, ACDC, Black Sabbath and Motorhead?

I'm personally so bored of listening to their music and discussing them that I'm surprised I'm even replying to this thread.

Why do we keep regurgitating the same old boring debates?

Doesn't anyone listen to any interesting bands?

I've heard people say Deep Purple "Flight of the Rat" was the first speed metal song. Uriah Heep I always thought of as a metal type sound. Zeppelin I always thought of them as a hard rockin' blues based band.

Your brain is stuck in 2012. In the early 1970's, Led Zeppelin was considered metal. In every serious discussion of the genre, including Metal Evolution, Led Zeppelin is considered metal. End of story.

Zeppelin was a blues/hard rock outfit. There was no metal back then, hard rock was as metal as it got.

If you stand in 2012 and look back, the only thing in my mind that comes close to current metal is Sabbath. That said, if Tony Iommi hadn't had his accident, he'd have never tuned down to what we know the band to be. Maybe someone would have done it eventually, but that's where it happened.

I personally think Deep Purple rocked harder than either aforementioned band and is sadly overlooked by today's metal crowd. Blackmore in his prime, playing with any current metal band, would absolutly kill.

The thing is, no Zep, Sabbath, Deep Purple, and countless other acts, there'd be nothing for people to call "Metal" today.

Well, I think people can get too hung up and passionate about this kind of thing. In the Grand Scheme, it's minutiae.

At the same time, I'm a huge music geek so I've actually been embroiled in this "argument" before. :grin:

I definitely think Led Zeppelin were influential to a lot of metal bands of different types, but ultimately I think of them as more of a blues-based hard rock band. Obviously they incorporated some British folk musics, some Eastern Indian modalities and at times they rocked hard enough to come across as metal-ish, but I don't think of them as a "Metal Band (TM)"

I would say yes, but they were a lot of other things as well.

i believe led zep were labeled as "heavy metal" long before any of the current incarnations existed....even some of the more obscure old todd rundgren wore the label

"blah, blah, blah...."

Also anyone else bored to hell with discussing Led Zepplin, Iron Maiden, Deep Purple, ACDC, Black Sabbath and Motorhead?

I'm personally so bored of listening to their music and discussing them that I'm surprised I'm even replying to this thread.

Why do we keep regurgitating the same old boring debates?

Doesn't anyone listen to any interesting bands?

And you you wrote a complete diatribe on the topic! I guess you could be discussing whether Brad Paisley is "real country" or not....

Though I'm curious now, as to what the "interesting bands" are.

I can certainly imagine that Zeppelin were considered metal back in the day -- more than 30 years ago, folks -- being probably one of the heaviest bands around at the time. Since then the genre has evolved, which is why they don't sound like metal to modern ears.

In terms of proto-metal, though, doesn't Blue Cheer predate any of the bands mentioned so far?

Zep were mostly a blues-based band who had access to Tufnell 11™ speakers.

Someone said, 'if that sound were any heavier, it'd be metal'.

The rest, as they say, is history.

As for the nomenclature semantics, I'm pretty sure Metal wasn't a phrase used until the late 70s early 80s. I was there at the spawning of Motorhead and that was the first time I heard the term used. Not that I'm claiming they invented it. Everything borrowed from what came before, and it evolved.

I don't consider Zep a metal band but I do consider them a huge influence on future metal bands.

I can certainly imagine that Zeppelin were considered metal back in the day -- more than 30 years ago, folks -- being probably one of the heaviest bands around at the time. Since then the genre has evolved, which is why they don't sound like metal to modern ears.

In terms of proto-metal, though, doesn't Blue Cheer predate any of the bands mentioned so far?

Blue Cheer-good name to throw into the mix, indeed I think of them as one of the loudest and hardest back in the day. Personally I consider their sound rougher and more intense than any of the dropped tuned "nu-metal" stuff with all the growling vocals these young bucks listen to now days. JMO of course.

How you would categorize Zeppelin now... I doubt that I'd call their music "metal".

When my friends and I started getting into zeppelin in the 70's we called it heavy metal. We got the term from our local radio stations. We figured the metal part came from the "Led" (lead) in their name... hence "heavy metal". I have no other ideas or thoughts on where the term came from from. I just remember the radio stations talking heavy metal when spinning zep's records. Although it may have happened I don't remember any other band refereed to as heavy metal. I remember hearing "Dazed and confused" and "Whole lota love" played multiple times on any given day and back then to us that was metal music.

Well, I think people can get too hung up and passionate about this kind of thing. In the Grand Scheme, it's minutiae.

At the same time, I'm a huge music geek so I've actually been embroiled in this "argument" before. :grin:

I definitely think Led Zeppelin were influential to a lot of metal bands of different types, but ultimately I think of them as more of a blues-based hard rock band. Obviously they incorporated some British folk musics, some Eastern Indian modalities and at times they rocked hard enough to come across as metal-ish, but I don't think of them as a "Metal Band (TM)"

I like the grand scheme of things and in that, it's simply nice to like Zep for what they were, regardless of titles. :)

Jimmy Page has said that their music was Shades of light and dark. Acoustic music mixed with hard rock, not metal though. Heavy influences of blues, Indian music and some reggae. Overall it was a new unique sound.

Music genres evolve over time, and looking back at music from 40 years ago and trying to make it conform to today's definitions just doesn't work. I graduated from high school in 1977, and back then Led Zeppelin was called both "hard rock" and "heavy metal".

It doesn't sound much like anything called metal today, but neither does country music from then sound much like what's on country radio now.

Tim

the "heavy metal thunder" term was from "born to be wild".. steppenwolf, on the easy rider sound track.... the first time I heard heavy and metal together... yet, we never associated it with a genre of the bands at the time...

we never called Sabbath and Zeppelin "metal" or "heavy metal"... heavy or heavy rock were the terms we used... I bought the vinyl when they came out one after the other...

I think modern "metal" dudes are trying to claim the 70's bands retrospectively..... as theirs.... but they weren't.... they weren't there....

I've heard grunge described as nothing but Mudhoney, TAD, and a few early Soundgarden songs according to the experts, but tell that to the general public and see what they think.

60s British rock guys took old American blues and took it to a place that became Metal. Then Metal went into its 2nd wave in Britain taking on punk aspects and at the same time came back to America that became modern metal and all of its offshoots. These offshoots went worldwide and run the gamut from 80s butt rock to Norwegian Death Metal.

It all doesn't matter regardless of music historians think. All of it is just music based on electric guitars, electric basses and drummers and all owes its lineage to the first guy from the South who moved to Chicago and plugged in.

Genrefication is stupid

I've heard people say Deep Purple "Flight of the Rat" was the first speed metal song. Uriah Heep I always thought of as a metal type sound. Zeppelin I always thought of them as a hard rockin' blues based band.

I believe the term was first applied to "Speed King" on Deep Purple In Rock from 1970. This was their fourth album and it went gold in the US but only silver in the UK, which as I dimly recall would be because they had a lot of competition over here. As heavy rock bands went they were fairly MOR and as "safe" as say The Moody Blues.

First band ever described as "heavy metal" was Deep Purple. By the OP's definition they do not even fit the bill, and yet they were de facto The "heavy-metal" band.

Back then we would call Led Zep and Black Sabbath prog-rock or heavy-rock. Both do also fit the Deep Purple "heavy-metal" tag. The dividing line between progressive and heavy rock was a bit vague, prog rock a bit lighter - Led Zep, heavy was heavier - Black Sabbath. But where did all the rest fit in? - Uriah Heap, Budgie, IF, Coliseum, Mountain, and the rest - there were lots and lots of them.

Not sure when the "metal" tag finally caught on but "heavy metal" was definitely first applied to Deep Purple In Rock.


You forgot Blue Cheer

IMO THEY WERE THE FIRST METAL BAND BY STYLE, SPEED AND VOLUME!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU5uDozoSSM

Yep Tim summed it up.
Definitions change and skew over time.

I remember Zep being called Heavy. Not so much 'metal' but occasionally people would just use that term 'Heavy Metal' to refer to anything 'Rock'.
Often in a derogatory way by those who did not like any Rock as I recall!

All a bit odd really in Zep's case - when you might have been listening to 'Folk songs' like 'Battle of Evermore' or 'Gallows Pole' , or even the country flavoured 'Hotdog' from the last Studio album 'In through the out Door' (which was released after the 'new wave of British heavy metal' era had dawned, but is even less heavy than many Zep records!).

I though the term 'Heavy Metal' was first associated with the Industrial UK Midlands area heavy rockers ..like Black Sabbath.
Interesting that it is apparently Deep Purple. I certainly never thought of them as Metal

From my memories of being in my early teens in the early/mid '70s, 'Heavy Metal', 'Hard Rock' and even just 'Heavy' were pretty well interchangable and described any loud guitar-based (and sometimes distorted keyboards) music that was played on the 'bad' FM radio stations our parents didn't approve of. The ones that didn't play 'pop' and instead had loud nasty stuff with allusions to sex and drugs and rebellious anti-establishment counter-culture notions. Dangerous music....
At the time 'bad' music included ZZ Top, The Stones, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Aerosmith, Zappa, Joe Walsh, Led Zeppelin, etc.

And bands like Led Zeppelin and Iron Butterfly with literally heavy metal names made the 'Heavy Metal' label stick by association.

The definitions people use now didn't become commonly used for another decade or so, I think.

So although I wouldn't call Led Zep heavy metal now I can remember a time when people would have.

I really get tired of slotting music into genres. There are more Genres than I can keep track of.
I was absolutely amazed with the release of Zepplin's first album.
Deep Purple could actually play any kind of music at one time.
Deep Purple "Live at the Philharmonic". is a pretty impressive piece of work.
I'll just call it music..

Gene Simmons once was asked if he thought Kiss were Heavy Metal, his answer was no, Kiss were a Hard Rock band, as simple as that. But he also pointed out that back then in 1972, there was no such thing as "Heavy Metal" back then Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin and Sabbath were called "Rock" bands. Rock in this case meaning a faster more sinister version of the blues rock championed by the Yardbirds, Cream, Jimi Hendrix and Humble pie.

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But Sabbath was without a doubt the first true Metal band although back then they weren't classified as such.

In my own opinion Heavy Metal as we know it today came to be when bands started fusing elements of Punk and Prog together with rock.
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Iron Maiden "Phantom of the opera"
Bass Player and song smith Steve Harris was a very big fan of Genesis and this song shows the influence clearly while Singer Paul Di'Anno came from punk and guitarists Adrian Smith and Dave Murray came from Deep Purple, Wishbone ash and Led Zeppelin. Maiden was the perfect blend of all those things that back then so many rock journalists said should never be combined.

Gene Simmons once was asked if he thought Kiss were Heavy Metal, his answer was no, Kiss were a Hard Rock band, as simple as that. But he also pointed out that back then in 1972, there was no such thing as "Heavy Metal" back then Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin and Sabbath were called "Rock" bands. Rock in this case meaning a faster more sinister version of the blues rock championed by the Yardbirds, Cream, Jimi Hendrix and Humble pie.



While I hate the whole naming and sub-generification of music into ever indefinable differences, KISS weren't fit to clean the toilets in the change rooms of the artists mentioned.

The obsession with labels has always seemed to place a limiter on what you are allowed to play and what the listener has a right to expect within that particular "label". Zep tried very hard to avoid that very thing. Thats one of the big reasons I enjoyed them and Hendrix, Zappa, Miles, Coltrane, Stravinsky, Little Feat,Johnny Cash, Roy Orbison, radiohead....etc. they didn't let the label define the music they let the listener decide if they enjoyed it.

First band ever described as "heavy metal" was Deep Purple. By the OP's definition they do not even fit the bill, and yet they were de facto The "heavy-metal" band.


I've heard the same thing said about Sir Lord Baltimore (viz. Wikipedia, fwiw), and they fit the OP's definition about as well as Deep Purple. Almighty awesome stuff anyway, by any definition.

0yFGGXMFp0w

Early 70s metal is just about my favorite kind of music these days. There's a lot I missed back then!

While I hate the whole naming and sub-generification of music into ever indefinable differences, KISS weren't fit to clean the toilets in the change rooms of the artists mentioned.

So people like Scott Ian...
http://www.kenphillipsgroup.com/Phillips/kipIanScott.jpg

And Dimebag Darrell...
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lweilm8ZVX1r0k3fqo1_500.jpg

Were sadly mistaken to have Kiss tattoos because of finding their primary influence on becoming musicians with them?

Paul Stanley once said that when Kiss played Monsters of rock in 1990 they were apprehensive to play "I was made for loving you." because of standing in front of die-hard metal heads, they were fully prepared to recieve a hail storm of bottles and other junk the audience could throw at them. What they got however was a sea of raised fists, as a show of respect.

In my country we have a saying that goes "The best navigators never leave the shore." I DARE you say what you just said to a metal audience, they'll be glad to show you how mistaken you are.

The definition of 'metal' has changed a lot in the last 35 or 40 years... but to answer the question, NO Led Zep is not metal. Not by any definition... then or now.

So people like Scott Ian...
http://www.kenphillipsgroup.com/Phillips/kipIanScott.jpg

And Dimebag Darrell...
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lweilm8ZVX1r0k3fqo1_500.jpg

Were sadly mistaken to have Kiss tattoos because of finding their primary influence on becoming musicians with them?

Makes sense; tattoos=proof.

Passion has nothing to do with logic...but the process of defending one's passion is often instructive.

As many have said i too remember Zep being called "Metal" back in the early 70's by DJ's etc. Now i wouldn't classify them as such. But most of the bands we hold up as metal were not around then as a comparison.

You mean, they were all robots? :shock: I didn't know the Brits had such technology in the 70's.

So people like Scott Ian...

And Dimebag Darrell...
Were sadly mistaken to have Kiss tattoos because of finding their primary influence on becoming musicians with them?

Well, the pictures do kind of speak for themselves...

You mean, they were all robots? :shock: I didn't know the Brits had such technology in the 70's.


We British were robots then and still are.

You mean, they were all robots? :shock: I didn't know the Brits had such technology in the 70's.

:lol:

So people like Scott Ian...


And Dimebag Darrell...


Were sadly mistaken to have Kiss tattoos because of finding their primary influence on becoming musicians with them?

Well, they would never have regretted not getting the tattoos.

I DARE you say what you just said to a metal audience, they'll be glad to show you how mistaken you are.

You can prove any point by unleashing thousands of nutters upon your debating opponent.

While I hate the whole naming and sub-generification of music into ever indefinable differences, KISS weren't fit to clean the toilets in the change rooms of the artists mentioned.

while all of the members of kiss put together would not make even one GOOD guitar player, they did something right....artistic snobbery aside, they made it pay;
they knew who their audience was and knew to "keep it simple, stupid" (i believe the comma is optional)

back in their beginnings, when i was a "serious music student", and rather effete,
i completely loathed them...now i see that they knew exactly what they were doing

I lived the late 60's and early 70's as a teenager. The first band I recall ever being considered metal was Sabbath. Most of us were not big fans at the time. LZ was a blues hard rock band, and a lot of there songs were covers of old blues songs, just like the stones, and most of the British bands at the time.

Metal got tagged and popular as a genre in the mid to late 70's. I've never once considered Deep Purple, Blue Cheer or any of those era bands as anything other than rock and hard rock. All of them did a lot of ballads and 'songs with social meaning', but screeching fast guitars were an aside and may have been a stepping stone for some, but hey, it was rock and roll and you either liked a band or were indifferent. Not a lot of labels back then.

Look at the music at Woodstock. Looking back from now some of it could have been labeled as Heavy Metal, but is was just Rock and Roll breaking out of its boundaries.

In 1971 with "Good Times Bad Times," "Dazed and Confused," Communication Breakdown," Whole Lotta Love," Heartbreaker," "Immigrant Song," "Black Dog," yeah, they were (heavy) metal. Today? Not so much.

really i think there is only 1 possible response to a question where it doesn't matter how reasoned or supported your answer is:

"I like eggs"

while all of the members of kiss put together would not make even one GOOD guitar player, they did something right....artistic snobbery aside, they made it pay;
they knew who their audience was and knew to "keep it simple, stupid" (i believe the comma is optional)

back in their beginnings, when i was a "serious music student", and rather effete,
i completely loathed them...now i see that they knew exactly what they were doing

That's what a lot of people who went big saw in KISS. Great marketing if nothing else. Hey, another person from the central coast, cool!

I never thought they dominated their instruments, but then again it was the show and visuals which sold them to so many people. If I wanted a guitar player back then, I could always listen to Al DiMeola or Carlos Santana.

Your brain is stuck in 2012. In the early 1970's, Led Zeppelin was considered metal. In every serious discussion of the genre, including Metal Evolution, Led Zeppelin is considered metal. End of story.

This. I remember back in the 70's all the music mags called them metal along with Deep Purple and others. I even remember a writer calling Bad Company metal. Obviously today's metal is much different but things change...

Metal? Nah, I considered them "acid rock" back in the 60's. Metal hadn't been invented yet.

As much as I want to believe that Led Zeppelin didn't influence metal and bands like motley crue popped up on their own, it's probably just my biased mind talking.

But it's not like all the other bands were any less metal than them, hard metal bands like black sabbath and deep purple had already debuted before their Houses of the Holy album.

My grandmother thought Bruce Springsteen was heavy metal
What if she was right?

ZEPPELIN wasn't metal they were PUNK
Elvis was METAL!

They were about 25% Metal....BUT.........SO MUCH more!!

I think metal evolved a lot over the few decades following Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, and a few others.

In a way, I'd consider these bands more as precursors of metal - they were a catalyst in getting the ball rolling, but metal took on a life of its own.

The earliest "metal" music I've heard which still holds up IMHO is Iron Butterfly's "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vidda" - that track was WAY ahead of its time...

ZEPPELIN wasn't metal they were PUNK
Elvis was METAL!

But Elvis wasn't heavy, except in a literal sense.

Could Status Quo be a sort of sintered zinc pressing, rather than heavy metal?

But Elvis wasn't heavy, except in a literal sense.

Could Status Quo be a sort of sintered zinc pressing, rather than heavy metal?

or perhaps ZEPPELIN was Jazz and Elvis was PUNK:confused:

I don't consider Zep a metal band but I do consider them a huge influence on future metal bands.

This

metal. No way. This is not really open for discussion. In their time they were progressive blues rock, jimmy page is a blues guitarist he will tell you himself. Most of their riffs were already common blues riffs. They were even sued by blues composer for using his songs without permission. Led zeppelin just took blues to the next level. I love every song they do. I think the best BAND ever. Nowadays they are just classic rock. Definitely influenced metal, probably helped create the genre. But led zeppelin is not a metal band.

ya know, I once found a magazine review that I cut out to show to (and annoy) my friend that read: "Heavy metal Head-Bangers Bon-Jovi Will Be Appearing..."

So, go figger!

Zeppelin was a blues/hard rock outfit. There was no metal back then, hard rock was as metal as it got.
..

y.I'm sorry, but I played in the late 60s, in the UK, and the term 'Heavy metal' was certainly used relating to bands like Led Zep. Personally never heard the term 'Hard Rock' used.

I haven't a clue what all these 'metal' classifications are supposed to classify today. All seems a bit pointless to me.

Someone is not telling the truth. In late 1968 born to be wild was released by steppenwolf. It took until early 1970 after the release of easy rider for the song to chart.peaked at 49. It wasntt for five years after that the word heavy metal becme semi mainstream. They were on led zeppelin 3 by then. Back then it wasnt commonly known that jimmy pages biggest influences were blues musicians. Link wrays rumble is as blues as :mad:you can be.in case someone would make that point. Obviously they fit into the curren metal genre, but they are a blues rock band.

Dazed and Confused always makes me think of Sabbath

Dazed & Confused always makes me think of Jake Holmes & how zep screwed him

Someone is not telling the truth. In late 1968 born to be wild was released by steppenwolf. It took until early 1970 after the release of easy rider for the song to chart.peaked at 49. It wasntt for five years after that the word heavy metal becme semi mainstream.. .I haven't a clue when the term became 'semi mainstream' where you live, but we were using the terms 'Heavy' and then 'Heavy Metal' in the late 60's. It wasn't 1975, it was the late 60's. I retired from playing in bands in 1970, so I know when we were using the term in Welsh bands

All hard rock before Judas Priest and Iron Maiden shall be henceforth referred to as "mustache rock." Except for Sabbath. They must always be referred to as metal simply because, if you call them "mustache rock," they will come for you and hang you upside-down from a big stack of Laneys turned to 11 and will play Electric Funeral until you bleed out through the head. One exception to this rule is that any post-Priest/Maiden song that is about 1 or more wizards must still be referred to as mustache rock. Wizards are a staple food group of mustache rock.
-Mr. Natural

Chuck Berry doesn't sound like Rihanna and therefore can't be R'n'B! :lol:

All over ive been seeing people calling led zeppelin a 'metal' band, even daring to say a 'heavy metal' band. By my standards metal is dark-centered, has much screaming, non-melodic, and based solely on guitar riffs. Even by 1970's standards, Zep was not metal. The lyrics discussed things that were kinda considered inappropriate at the time, but it was by no means 'metal' and different from other bands like Pink Floyd.

Anyways, it is sketchy for anyone to place Led Zeppelin in a category because it was such a variety of genres. All of their songs are different like 'Hey Hey What can I Do', 'Down By the Seaside', 'What is and Never should be', or 'All of my Love'. But there was maybe ONE song came close ('No Quarter') and that was it. It is not 'metal' today, and it never was IMO.

But feel free to discuss your opinions.

When Zep cam out, even the Jeff Beck Group, the incarnation with Ronnie Woods and Rod Stewart, were hailed as HEavy Metal, at least according to the liner notes on the albums. By th estandards of th etimes, LZ was definitely Heavy Metal.

Blue Cheer and Deep Purple were the first metal bands.

KISS, AC-DC, and Led Zeppelin were all first-gen metal bands.

Sorry, i'm a bit rusty, can someone clarify what metal is best for tone?

Sorry, i'm a bit rusty, can someone clarify what metal is best for tone?

Calcium.

All hard rock before Judas Priest and Iron Maiden shall be henceforth referred to as "mustache rock." Except for Sabbath. They must always be referred to as metal simply because, if you call them "mustache rock," they will come for you and hang you upside-down from a big stack of Laneys turned to 11 and will play Electric Funeral until you bleed out through the head. One exception to this rule is that any post-Priest/Maiden song that is about 1 or more wizards must still be referred to as mustache rock. Wizards are a staple food group of mustache rock.
-Mr. Natural

YUP:!::cool::rolleyes:

Blue Cheer and Deep Purple were the first metal bands.

KISS, AC-DC, and Led Zeppelin were all first-gen metal bands.

actually when AC/DC first debuted they were billed as a punk band

not me

This. I remember back in the 70's all the music mags called them metal along with Deep Purple and others. I even remember a writer calling Bad Company metal. Obviously today's metal is much different but things change...

You musta been reading different magazines to me...they're a Rock band... always have been....never heard of them being referred to as 'Metal' except recently by youngsters who weren't around at the time to know any better.


...probably the same youngsters who mistakenly refer to all 50's Rock and Roll music as 'Rockabilly'.

Music genres evolve over time, and looking back at music from 40 years ago and trying to make it conform to today's definitions just doesn't work. I graduated from high school in 1977, and back then Led Zeppelin was called both "hard rock" and "heavy metal".

It doesn't sound much like anything called metal today, but neither does country music from then sound much like what's on country radio now.

Tim

+1 Tim's got it.

I graduated high school in 1976, and the term "heavy metal" was used to describe Zep and others back then. What become called "metal" later would not have been recognizable to our tender ears. The terms simply changed.

In my head, Metallica is still one of those "new" bands I haven't managed to get into yet. Probably won't happen, huh?

i don't care what anyone says, Communication Breakdown was the first punk song

i don't care what anyone says, Communication Breakdown was the first punk song

I see your point. It does sound very similar to, say, Neat Neat Neat.

Of COURSE they were metal, exept for the folk parts, the blues parts, the acoustic parts, the rockabilly parts, the pschycedelic parts, the...

Of COURSE they were metal,...except metal sucks:twisted:,.....and they didn't suck,...so........ they couldn't be metal,.............even though they were.............I'm confusing myself.......:confused:

LZ were considered to be heavy metal attack then,, but the terminology evolved over time and,sadly, LZ's evolution was abruptly cut short.

Eventually, the only music considered 'metal' will be a loud, screeching noise that is all but unlistenable.

Oh wait, that's already happened.

Your brain is stuck in 2012. In the early 1970's, Led Zeppelin was considered metal. In every serious discussion of the genre, including Metal Evolution, Led Zeppelin is considered metal. End of story.


thats not exactly true, nor is it the end of story. I remember them being referred to as "acid blues" back in 68 or maybe 69, in some publication.

These classifications are totally subjective. In my opinion, they may have gotten close to metal a couple of times, Communication Breakdown maybe, and some of the fury and craziness inside the dazed and confused live versions.

but they're arent quite metal to me... altho they may have helped give birth to it. Metal to me means Metallica, Slayer, all that pile-driving stuff that sounds like a jackhammer stuck on 11. I bet those guys defer more to Black Sabbath than Zeppelin.

Eventually, the only music considered 'metal' will be a loud, screeching noise that is all but unlistenable.

Oh wait, that's already happened.


Hey, I tried to turn down last time but the suck knob was stuck.

Around our house, the album In Through the Out Door is called "Led Zeppelin for Girls." But I digress. I agree that terminology changes. At the time when Zeppelin were still around, they were sometimes referred to as "heavy metal", a term which was used for a lot of hard rock bands, some of whom sounded nothing like what we call "metal" today. The first time I heard it called just "metal" was in reference to Iron Maiden and Judas Priest and, oddly enough, the Scorpions. Hence my earlier post. I think they are a lot closer to what is now referred to as metal than bands like Zep, Deep Purple, Nugent, etc. Shoot, if anything, go listen to USA, the live album by King Crimson from around '73. That album has a few moments that are as brutal as anything you'd hear today. I'd still argue, all kidding aside, that Sabbath were the true roots of metal. Some of their riffs were very different from what most other bands were doing at the time and would still qualify as "metal" even by today's standards. I loves me some Sabbath!
-Mr. N.

Someone is not telling the truth. In late 1968 born to be wild was released by steppenwolf. It took until early 1970 after the release of easy rider for the song to chart.peaked at 49. It wasntt for five years after that the word heavy metal becme semi mainstream. They were on led zeppelin 3 by then. Back then it wasnt commonly known that jimmy pages biggest influences were blues musicians. Link wrays rumble is as blues as :mad:you can be.in case someone would make that point. Obviously they fit into the curren metal genre, but they are a blues rock band.

Hmm, dimly remember "the heavy metal sound of" Steppenwolf, mainly due to, as the article went on to describe John Kay's voice as, "like a nail file scraped on the microphone". But this was after Deep Purple were awarded the appellation for Speed King. Who were Blue Cheer? - no, sorry, complete blank on them there..
Probably Melody Maker articles (musos), less likely New Musical Express (record buying public).

Otoh and around the same time 70-72 The Flaming Groovies were the first band I heard described as "punk" by a BBC Radio1 DJ.

Btw - none of the bands got called "heavy metal" around that time (68-71) even Black Sabbath were just heavy-rock. LZ usually called prog-rock but heavy and prog (progressive) were somewhat interchangeable.
What were Hawkwind then? - Lemmy (try Hawkwind's Silver Machine) formed Motorhead...

What were Hawkwind then? - Lemmy (try Hawkwind's Silver Machine) formed Motorhead...

Space Rock.

We British were robots then and still are.

I assume this is a typo because you probably do have more Roberts in Scotland than further south. We even named the old shilling after one (Bob), but I never figured out who Tanner (6d) was.
I'm still trying to think of any notable Texan technology ...

Space Rock.
Good description but no, that term wasn't in use then.
Acid-rock maybe which was prog-rock only more trippy, but that could be applied to The Pink Faries, Gong or Genesis, but Hawkind was definitely heavier.

Good description but no, that term wasn't in use then.
Acid-rock maybe which was prog-rock only more trippy, but that could be applied to The Pink Faries, Gong or Genesis, but Hawkind was definitely heavier.

All those terms, plus Psychedelic Rock. I was there. In body at least...

The space allusions, aided by Robert Calvert, were there from very early on - Sonic Attack, Masters of the Universe, Golden Void, Space is Deep etc etc. Before Calvert joined, he asked Nik Tuner what they played - Turner said Space Rock.

Hmm, dimly remember "the heavy metal sound of" Steppenwolf, mainly due to, as the article went on to describe John Kay's voice as, "like a nail file scraped on the microphone". But this was after Deep Purple were awarded the appellation for Speed King. Who were Blue Cheer? - no, sorry, complete blank on them there..
Probably Melody Maker articles (musos), less likely New Musical Express (record buying public).

Otoh and around the same time 70-72 The Flaming Groovies were the first band I heard described as "punk" by a BBC Radio1 DJ.

Btw - none of the bands got called "heavy metal" around that time (68-71) even Black Sabbath were just heavy-rock. LZ usually called prog-rock but heavy and prog (progressive) were somewhat interchangeable.
What were Hawkwind then? - Lemmy (try Hawkwind's Silver Machine) formed Motorhead...

The one track I've heard by Blue Cheer is Summertime Blues - which, although maybe not "metal" is certainly heavy as:

nU5uDozoSSM

LZ is hard rock. Sabbath was the first heavy metal band. Nobody had such a dark and heavy sound back then than Sabbath.

okay and i quote

'The most important feature of Zeppelin's design was a rigid light-alloy skeleton ... because the light alloys used for the structure, usually Magnesium or Aluminium alloys, enabled Zeppelins to lift heavier loads and be fitted with more engines and/or more powerful engines'

The one track I've heard by Blue Cheer is Summertime Blues - which, although maybe not "metal" is certainly heavy as:


Well there you go, for me Summertime Blues (Cochran) belongs to The Who
1-UelRnyTvc
Now there's heavy, for 1967

LZ is hard rock. Sabbath was the first heavy metal band. Nobody had such a dark and heavy sound back then than Sabbath.

He speaks the truth. LZ was about as hard as rock could be at the time.
And Sabbath was, without a doubt, the band that launched heavy metal.
At the time those bands first started getting airplay there was a nationwide panic among parents and church leaders in America over their music and the evil path it was leading Americas youth down. At our house, when LZ hit the scene, my parents suddenly thought The Beatles were clean cut youngsters playing mainstream music like The Beach Boys, Leslie Gore or Frankie Avalon & Annette Funacello, which was a complete 180 from their previous outlook on Beatle music. And when BS hit the air it was a total annihilation of everything parents had previously thought music to be. What a cool time to be alive in America! Car radios had twist knobs and sweep tuners. It was all AM and it sounded great.

I'm still trying to think of any notable Texan technology ...

Woolly chaps.

it's all rock to me

Of COURSE they were metal,...except metal sucks:twisted:,.....and they didn't suck,...so........ they couldn't be metal,.............even though they were.............I'm confusing myself.......:confused:

Love it!

This entire thread makes me laugh. Zeppelin definitely influenced a lot of metal bands I'm sure, but does that make them metal? Not anymore than their influence nearly every other rock music since makes them all of those things.

Greatness isn't something that needs to be compartmentalized.

As someone else mentioned, the term probably came from the Steppenwolf song Born to Be Wild, and I definitely remember hearing it bandied about in terms of music while I was still in high school. What I took it to mean at the time was very hard, heavy rock music and I believe Deep Purple was probably the first group I can remember getting the label. This would have been around 68-70 time-frame. I think the term evolved over time and eventually became an identifiable genre many years later. I can also recall Black Sabbath getting the label, but Deep Purple was the first band that guys I went to school with referred to as "heavy metal." I also remember thinking at the time that Blue Cheer fitted the description.

... Shoot, if anything, go listen to USA, the live album by King Crimson from around '73. That album has a few moments that are as brutal as anything you'd hear today.!...

Great call on KC!

"20th Century Schizoid Man" is another example of none more metal for the times...

the "heavy metal thunder" term was from "born to be wild".. steppenwolf, on the easy rider sound track.... the first time I heard heavy and metal together... yet, we never associated it with a genre of the bands at the time...

we never called Sabbath and Zeppelin "metal" or "heavy metal"... heavy or heavy rock were the terms we used... I bought the vinyl when they came out one after the other...

I think modern "metal" dudes are trying to claim the 70's bands retrospectively..... as theirs.... but they weren't.... they weren't there....

Thank, Trev! Having, as you say, "been there", I'll only add that "Born to be Wild" was '67/'68...*before* "Easy Rider".

"Metal" as a genre didn't exist, there were no 'metal bands', back then. The split between 'hard rock' and 'heavy metal' arose in the mid-Seventies, when Motorhead, Rainbow, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Scorpions, et al, went one way; Boston, Kansas, Foreigner, Journey, Styx, etc went another (general) direction ('corporate dinosaur rock', we used to call it), and Slade, Def Leppard, AC/DC, Nazareth & Ted Nugent (among others) went still another.

(we'll say nothing about some of the others "stars" of the period, like Alan Parsons, Sheena Easton, Bay City Rollers, Gino Vanelli, Phoebe Snow, Cockney Rebel...)

I was a buyer @ Franklin Music in those years, so these were not "critical" distinctions: it was all about who would buy what.

And...just because we're on the subject (sorta) - am I the ONLY one who remembers Bloodrock? Their first album came out right about the same time as Sabbath's first, and immediately made an, um, impression with their very long and pretentious dirge, "D. O. A." ...which gets my vote as the great-grandpappy of the current metal crowd. Oops, I mean, 'genre'.

Oh, and let's not forget the true progenitor: Lou Reed's "Metal Machine Music"....