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Rubber magnets in pickups?

[J.K.]
March 30th, 2012, 11:54 AM
I was reading up about the old DeArmond Gold Foils, which have resulted in some of my favorite tones in certain situations, and read that they had rubber magnets in them rather than the standard Alnico/Ceramic pickups more commonly used. At first I thought that this is what helped with their light and microphonic tone, but then I read that not only were these (apparently) used in some old Rics, but they're also a key component to Lace Sensors.

Do any manufacturers experiment with these magnets much? Do they even contribute to the sound much at all, or are they a minor component?
I keep wanting to put some Gold Foils in my guitar but I don't want to [a] route it, and [b] have to worry about the potential for microphonic squawking at shows.
Are there good alternatives? Mini-bucker size would be nice, but not necessary.

TNO
March 30th, 2012, 12:11 PM
The had metal magnets. Scroll down here to see a pic of what they look like sans cover: http://tennesseeorange.iwarp.com/photo.html

They are pretty hard pickups to copy, possibly because the magnets were somehow different, I don't know. Novak is doing them under jazzmaster covers.

[J.K.]
March 30th, 2012, 12:33 PM
I read that some had Alnico, but some had rubber ferrite?

Derek Kiernan
March 30th, 2012, 04:02 PM
I wonder if a large part of the appeal is the smoother attack characteristic over conventional Fender-style poled designs. If so, you might want to investigate some single or dual blade pickups on the market, many of which have moderate inductance and can easily achieve sweet tones. From what I've seen, there seems to be a fair amount of variation even among gold foils, so I can't tell what all the tonal and design differences would be. Magnets only have importance as far as their role in the magnetic design in relation to the coil and inducing magnetism in the string - no material has "sound" independent of this, and good design can achieve specific results with a variety of materials. In other words, rubberized magnets are likely important to getting the tones of the pickups they were used in in context of those designs, but it shouldn't be assumed that either all those designs had similar tonal qualities due to magnets, or that designs using other materials can't get similar results.

Teleterr
March 31st, 2012, 01:44 PM
I've had DeArmonds w rubber magnets. Altho the Golds I have are hard ceramic. I'll take issue with the magnets not having a sound. I've made low Z coils w a space in the middle to put in different kinds and every kind sounded different. It is very true that the magnet is really just part of the whole, and you can get pretty much any kind of sound using any kind of magnet matched w topology and the windings. But if you put an AlNiCo, Ceramic, or Rubber magnet as a booster under a Strat p/up you could tell which it was.

Teleterr
March 31st, 2012, 01:56 PM
The had metal magnets. Scroll down here to see a pic of what they look like sans cover: http://tennesseeorange.iwarp.com/photo.html

They are pretty hard pickups to copy, possibly because the magnets were somehow different, I don't know. Novak is doing them under jazzmaster covers. Its the topology and materials that gives them their sound. A flat coil wound around a bend in a piece of metal w the magnets along side, same field pointing up.The metal altho ferro-magnetic isn't feed by the magnets.The cover is not ferro magnetic but probable effects the changing field like a Tele base (ferro-magnetic have direct magnetic properties like iron) The foil gives a gap for the fields to pass thru. Its amazing the design works.

TNO
March 31st, 2012, 06:16 PM
It is an amazing design. Full-range, not noiseless but well-shielded. High output without sounding the least bit overwound. I think the thin, flat design gets the whole pickup right up under the strings and improves sensitivity. They are so microphonic that the pickup puts out sound even if the coil is completely open.

Harry was trying to reproduce the natural sound of the instrument and got pretty dang close. It's a shame that his knowledge of magnets and such seems to have been lost.