March 28th, 2012, 11:58 AM
I know Duplicolor has been discussed a ton here, but I could not find a direct answer to this question. This is my first time using acrylic lacquer so I have zero experience with it. I am doing a tele partscaster in Wimbledon White.....actually shot 2 coats of the Duplicolor sandable primer in grey(NICE), 2 coats of Dover white (for a white base), and have 1 coat of Wimbledon on there now. I have been waiting about 12 hours between coats to sand with 600 grit just to get any dust, etc since I am not doing clear.
Question: I plan to do 1 to 1.5 cans of the Wimbledon White, how long should I let it dry before I final sand with 1000- 2000 grit for a nice satin finish?
Thanks in advance.
March 28th, 2012, 12:05 PM
I wish I had an answer for you. I used 1.5 cans of Wimbledon White for my Samick JA125 refinish, but I also used Duplicolor clear, and it took FOREVER to harden (I sanded it at 45 days, and it still smelled like VOCs).
If it weren't for the clear, I would have a PERFECT answer for you...
March 28th, 2012, 12:58 PM
Your Samick thread was one of the reasons I went with the Wimbledon White. The non-clear coat is the issue it seems. Not many people seem to forego the clear coat, so info on this is slim.
Hopefully someone out there can help, but if not, I'll post what my results are.
March 28th, 2012, 06:54 PM
It's dependent on temperature, humidity, the thickness of what you have on the surface and how long you waited between passes ("coats" are not as relevant), the solids-by-volume of the specific materials used (each color varies), the wetting agents used in the color (different amounts of different materials are used to attempt to make the flow consistent from color to color, which to a manufacturer is more important than dry time consistency.) what (if anything) you filled the wood with (and how much solvent it contains...and how much of that soaked into and is partially trapped under the coating)...
There's really no pat answer. I've sanded color coats in a week and it was too soon, or an hour and it was just fine. It's one of those crystal-ball questions often asked, but the crystal ball's been busted for a long time.
If I am doing something out of the ordinary (and I would consider a satin finish without applying a satin clear coat out of the ordinary - sanding alone may not get you a consistent sheen) or something I have never attempted before I always try the process on scrap wood of the same type as the instrument. Trying to do something you've never done before on an instrument without practicing/testing is, in my opinion, not advisable.
FWIW professional painting contractors, when using an unfamiliar product that's been specified on a project, always do test applications in their shop prior to application on the job. The same procedure is advisable when painting anything, especially something of value.
BTW, if you have sprayed aerosol lacquers in the past you've undoubtedly sprayed "acrylic lacquer" before. Just about every "nitro" lacquer sold since the 1950's has been an acrylic/nitrocellulose blend. The Fender Custom Colors - Dupont's Duco and other auto finishes - were blends.
March 28th, 2012, 08:50 PM
Cant really help you in regards to not using a clear coat, but Ive used Duplicolor perfect match and Minwax clear laquer with great results if that's helpful.
wet sanded and buffed after 2 weeks.
March 28th, 2012, 10:22 PM
Thanks folks. I have been able to lightly sand with 600 grit after letting sit overnight, but the finish certainly still smells like VOCs so I know it's no where near cured. I'll likely let it sit for a few days and do the fingernail test under the neck plate or pickguard area to see if it's hard. If it feels solid, I'll sand with 1000 then 2000 and see where I go from there. I'm not opposed to using a satin lacquer and would def go with Minwax if needed.
I'll post pics soon. This is actually my first time spraying anything other than Poly or enamel.
March 29th, 2012, 10:26 AM
I might be crazy, but I did another coat last evening around 6PM and at 7AM this morning the fingernail test passed. I used polycrylic as sealer and the body seems pretty hard already. I have to do another coat tonight, and will see what it's like tomorrow. The acrylic lacquer lays down so much nicer than enamels and I actually might not have to finish sand at all- it looks that good. Might go straight to 2000 grit to get a satin sheen.
Having said all of that- the body still smells so I know it's not "cured" but if it's hard enough to put together within a few days I'll be really psyched.
March 30th, 2012, 04:46 AM
Quit rushing the process. No good can come from it.
March 30th, 2012, 05:19 AM
Its best to spray light coats and let them dry .Its the plasticizer in spray cans that keeps them not drying out quickly.As you build up coats the paint underneath hasnt dried so the thinners used have to fight their way through thick paint to evaporate which is all drying out is .It doesnt cure .Also the top coat can be cry but the bottom coat still wettish.
March 30th, 2012, 10:02 AM
Fair enough on the rushing part. Still, I am not aiming for a mirror like glass finish, which I do not have the time, patience, or environment to achieve. Just want a decent looking guitar that will play like butter....which I am more than capable of achieving.
I put a final coat on last night and "looked" at it this morning. Good coverage, no low spots or orange peel, a bit of grain shink which I expected and don't mind. I'll let it sit for a bit and see what's what.
March 30th, 2012, 10:10 AM
Wanted to add a few more things. The reason I started this thread was because I know nothing about acrylic lacquer, but the key being that I am not doing a clear coat. There is tons of info on using lacquer WITH clear coats, but I only found a few threads where people mention not doing clear, but nothing about the drying time.
I have read in several places, perhaps erroneous info, that car lacquers are designed to dry hard and fast so that they can be sanded and polished quickly after finishing. No idea if that refers to mixed paints or spray cans or whatever. Again, I am clueless.
If I were doing clear, I know the deal with waiting at least 30 days before sanding/ polishing. That's been well documented. Just am not sure what the rule is for someone wanting a decent looking, not perfect, finish without clear. I did light coats and have been spraying 12 hrs apart for 4-5 days now. The coats seemed pretty dry and hard and I sanded with 600 grit in between to get any dust nibs, etc.
Just trying to document my observations for those of us who are limited on time, don't care about a showroom type finish, and want to just get a decent finish on a body and move on with their life.
March 30th, 2012, 10:13 AM
Thanks for sharing Lou. I've been interested in this as well.
March 30th, 2012, 10:59 AM
If you are not clearing, spray more. I'm done with my second strat with dupli color black lacquer. I used 3 cans on the first and 3 cans on the second. The first was sanded and polished about a week after spraying was done. It was still too soon, but I had it sold and needed it out (buyer understood that he may need to repolish). If it still smells, then it's not ready to sand. If you sand and it then smells, then stop till it doesn't....then sand with the next finer grit.
As some kind of gauge.....my first one took about 30 coats. I have 40 on the second and will be clearing with nitro, just because it's warm enough outside in my garage now to use the spray gun instead of stink bombs.
March 30th, 2012, 11:56 AM
WOW- 30-40 coats! I'm sure that gave more than enough surface to wet sand and polish and get a really smooth glasslike surface. I used 2 cans and am happy with the results so I am done. I'm debating just leaving as is and not sanding or polishing.
Like I said, I have some grain sink anyway so a showroom finish is not possible without additional time and effort. Just not that important to me. The paint laid down nicely, no orange peel or overspray, and unless you are 10 inches away and really looking, there are very few imperfections. Looks good at playing distances.....good enough for me.
I may just steel wool or use 2,000 grit under the PG area to see the kind of satin sheen I can get there. If that looks good, I'll decide whether or not to do the whole body.
Will try to post pics of what the body currently looks like tonight.
April 1st, 2012, 08:46 AM
Well....I'm done with it. I sanded with 600, 1000, and finally 2000 grit about 36 hours after spraying the last coat and it turned out fine. I know this might seem crazy to some who recommended waiting, but like I said, I just wanted a nice color on this body with zero expectation of a showroom type of finish. I got a bit agressive in the upper horn and got a bit of sand through where you can start to see the grey primer. Oh well, I'm leaving it alone as it's a nice thin finish and feels great.
I'll post pics on the main board, but here is a teaser.
Thanks for watching.
April 2nd, 2012, 07:56 AM
.......I just wanted a nice color on this body with zero expectation of a showroom type of finish. .
Nothing wrong with that, that's kinda where I'm at on my TV yellow job. I just wanted to turn a guitar I didn't play much - and not worth enough to sell - into something I'd want to pick up and play. So it turned into a project on just how little effort I needed to expend but still have it feel and look great.
Initially I was planning to put some coats of clear on it, but now thinking I'd go straight to the polishing route. Maybe a nice coat of carnuba wax to finish it off. Just love that smell.
April 2nd, 2012, 08:33 AM
Very nice, man. Thanks for documenting. That wimbledon white is so nice.