Moving into the 21st century; microphone, PC and the like suggestions please

I want to setup a simple home recording work station for my wife to record her and her students while she is or they are playing piano. What are some easy to use software, good sound card, Microphone and interface suggestions?


Ok here in my point of reference; the last time I did any home recording it was a big deal when you had a TEAC 3340 real to real recorder, a Studio Master 16x4x2 channel board,DBX external noise reduction and maybe a Roland DEP 5 effects processor. Yes I know these things are now in the Smithsonian museum.

I'd say it depends a lot on what she's going to do with those recordings.

Honestly, the portable digital recorders do an amazing job if all you want to do is capture a performance in high quality. You can use something like Audacity (free) or Reaper (cheap) to edit the audio file on a PC if you want to trim it up, adjust levels, whatever. I did that for a couple years and it worked fine for my own purpose or to record our son's violin playing, either at home, in a small ensemble, or full orchestra. Those recordings got him into any camp or program that required a screening audio/video. Having one of those is not a bad place to start as it gives you portability without having to lug a notebook, interface & mics for quick recordings elsewhere, even if you decide you need something more, later.

If you want to record and do mixing, i.e., the digital recorder and some post-processing s/w isn't enough. I'd recommend considering a Macbook. Garage Band is built in, and supports almost any interface you can buy. There's just no end to the microphone choices once you go that route - up to your budget, honestly, but you should talk to someone knowledgeable about that, and the environment where they will be used. (No point buying $1000 mics to record the neighbors flushing their toilet...)

(While I'm a dedicated Windows guy - typing on one now - I switched to a Macbook for audio, currently use a newer M-Audio (USB) interface and have several mics - they all sound pretty good to my ringing ears!)

Good luck.

I'd say it depends a lot on what she's going to do with those recordings.

Honestly, the portable digital recorders do an amazing job if all you want to do is capture a performance in high quality. You can use something like Audacity (free) or Reaper (cheap) to edit the audio file on a PC if you want to trim it up, adjust levels, whatever. I did that for a couple years and it worked fine for my own purpose or to record our son's violin playing, either at home, in a small ensemble, or full orchestra. Those recordings got him into any camp or program that required a screening audio/video. Having one of those is not a bad place to start as it gives you portability without having to lug a notebook, interface & mics for quick recordings elsewhere, even if you decide you need something more, later.

If you want to record and do mixing, i.e., the digital recorder and some post-processing s/w isn't enough. I'd recommend considering a Macbook. Garage Band is built in, and supports almost any interface you can buy. There's just no end to the microphone choices once you go that route - up to your budget, honestly, but you should talk to someone knowledgeable about that, and the environment where they will be used. (No point buying $1000 mics to record the neighbors flushing their toilet...)

(While I'm a dedicated Windows guy - typing on one now - I switched to a Macbook for audio, currently use a newer M-Audio (USB) interface and have several mics - they all sound pretty good to my ringing ears!)

Good luck.

I use a MAC and have the hard drive partitioned using bootcamp to run Windows and MAC software on the "other side" side. It has Garage Band on the MAC side so you've given me good news.

My wife has a Petrof Model III Grand piano and I was thinking of using two mics with one aimed at the top of piano and one underneath the sound board. What are some of the mics you are using?

First, let me be clear: There are people way more experienced in this area to talk to (esp. about recording a grand piano) than me!

The one advice you will hear that I will repeat is that mic placement is critical. Your room will mean that a placement that may be recommended by someone won't be ideal, but you'll have to use your ears to work on that. Once you are satisfied, mark the floor, stands, take pictures, whatever, so you can get it set up again once something is moved, or at least give you a starting point if the furniture gets rearranged.

If you are going to use 2 mics (and probably necessary on an instrument of that size and range), my advice is to get a well matched pair of mics. Some folks may successfully use different mics, but on smaller instruments, unmatched mics gave me problems with a "wandering" stereo image. Probably easy to fix, but 2 mics that are identical was easier for a non-pro like me.

I've got a pair of Shure Beta 57As that I actually used a few years ago on a (baby grand) piano that sounded pretty darn good, IIRC. Now I would probably use a matched pair of Studio Projects mics I have. Again, it is up to your wallet. The mics I have were acquired to cover a lot of possibilities, without spending thousands of dollars; i.e., it's just a hobby for me.

I'd probably go for a condenser mic (probably a pair) - and I'd be leaning towards small diaphragm condensers. Although it's just throwing out a guess without hearing the piano in your room and knowing a bit more about what kind of sound you're aiming for.

Budget also - a cheap pair of condenser mics might come in around a couple hundred bucks. The least expensive quality ones are probably the Oktavas which are $5 or 600 for a pair. A bit more for additional capsules (which might be worth it - an omni might work in your application).

Condenser mics will require phantom power, meaning you'll need an interface or preamps that provide that. Most do these days, but there may be some budget ones that don't.

I will say that micing a solo piano is really difficult to do really well. Pianos are big, physically, so you get into needing to use two mics which gets into managing phase issues between the mics. In a solo recording there's nothing to hide behind, so the room is really important, and every part of your recording chain as well. If you're just doing it at home for fun, maybe just try a pair of the Behringer omnis first. They're cheap, accurate and realistic sounding. A bit noisy though. At the end of a chord dying off you'll hear a bit of hiss. Not horrendous, but it'll be there if you have a quiet recording environment.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Geoff

Condenser mics will require phantom power, meaning you'll need an interface or preamps that provide that. Most do these days, but there may be some budget ones that don't.

What interface are you using? I got a Lexicon I-ONIX U42S but I see that it's been discontinued.

I want to setup a simple home recording work station for my wife to record her and her students while she is or they are playing piano. What are some easy to use software, good sound card, Microphone and interface suggestions?


Ok here in my point of reference; the last time I did any home recording it was a big deal when you had a TEAC 3340 real to real recorder, a Studio Master 16x4x2 channel board,DBX external noise reduction and maybe a Roland DEP 5 effects processor. Yes I know these things are now in the Smithsonian museum.

The recommendation for a standalone recorder knocks "simple" out of the ballpark. Any other option is vastly more complicated, and it sounds like your proposed use would be a perfect match for a good quality portable recorder.

The amazing thing is that you can buy a four track recorder with overdub capability (basically the same functionality as your 3340) for under $300 and the audio quality will be better than the TEAC could deliver. And it will have a pair of decent stereo mics attached. You can even spend a bit more and bump the quality (in the form of a slight reduction in self-noise) up a bit more.

Here's a comparison of the Zoom H4n four track recorder to a pretty respectable PC based recording chain: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/03/07/first-look-at-the-zoom-h4n/

A good friend of mine who's a pretty fair pianist used the Sony PCM-D50 to capture his Steinway. Here's a look at the PCM-D50 along with another less expensive option, the Zoom H2n: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/09/07/field-recorder-comparo-sony-pcm-d50-zoom-h2n/

And in fact for the specific purpose you describe, the H2n might well be the perfect choice.

A computer based system opens the door to a world of capture and manipulation options, and I have fun using my system to experiment with mic configurations and effects. And if I need to comp (splice) together a performance to remove some mishaps, the computer Digital Audio. But many times when I want a clear, clean, accurate recording I just pull out one of my handheld recorders.

Fran

Another handheld is the Edirol/Roland R-09HR. It records wav or MP3 at 24 bps and 96 kHz in stereo using two condenser mics onto an SD memory card. I've got some excellent results with it.

Excellent recommendations here. Truly.

I would ask these questions:

1. What are these recordings for?
If they're for performance review and critique, or to give to parents as a record of their kid's achievements, then you're not looking at a huge expenditure. Beyond that, the sky's the limit.

2. What kind of piano are we talking about?
Upright? Grand? This matters a whole lot. Mic'ing an upright for "pretty" (i.e. classical) music is a chore and a half, and you may never get a 100% beautiful recording, being that upright pianos often don't lend themselves to projecting the tones that are typically associated with those styles. Almost anything else is easier.

3. What kind of room is the piano in?
Is it in a living room, a classroom, or a small rehearsal space? A living room can be great if there's not too much external noise nor too many reflective surfaces. Small rooms get tricky. Classrooms can often be way to reflective, but a good music classroom will usually be treated.

As a sort of middle-of-the-road scenario, I'm picturing a baby grand in a living room that's got couches, carpeting, and things on the walls. In this situation, I'd open the lid up all the way, and get myself a small digital recorder with a pair of stereo condenser mics built in. Mount it on a stand, pointing toward the open lid (maybe with a little bias toward the keys) and about five feet away at an elevation of perhaps six feet if possible. You'll get some strings directly and some reflections off the lid, which will always be a part of the sound unless you remove the lid - which I think is a waste of effort - that's what a piano sounds like. Experiment with mic distance if you're getting too much room sound. A little distance will be needed to make sure you don't capture one area of the soundboard much more than others.

This will give you an entirely reasonable overall piano sound. You can dump the recording into a PC based DAW, (I like Reaper a lot) and edit, tweak, and do whatever you want. Don't be afraid to EQ and futz with it a little. Many rooms have nodes that will bring certain frequencies way out in front, and distant mic'ing approaches will pick that right up. If you find something that works, save the settings - assuming you'll be able to replicate the setup, they'll probably be used again.

This setup and a little practice will give you a recording that will be more than adequate for practice review, and for the parents to obsess over.

If your arrangement is very different, let us know, and I'm sure this board can come up with something for you.

Excellent recommendations here. Truly.

I would ask these questions:

1. What are these recordings for?
If they're for performance review and critique, or to give to parents as a record of their kid's achievements, then you're not looking at a huge expenditure. Beyond that, the sky's the limit.

2. What kind of piano are we talking about?
Upright? Grand? This matters a whole lot. Mic'ing an upright for "pretty" (i.e. classical) music is a chore and a half, and you may never get a 100% beautiful recording, being that upright pianos often don't lend themselves to projecting the tones that are typically associated with those styles. Almost anything else is easier.

3. What kind of room is the piano in?
Is it in a living room, a classroom, or a small rehearsal space? A living room can be great if there's not too much external noise nor too many reflective surfaces. Small rooms get tricky. Classrooms can often be way to reflective, but a good music classroom will usually be treated.

As a sort of middle-of-the-road scenario, I'm picturing a baby grand in a living room that's got couches, carpeting, and things on the walls. In this situation, I'd open the lid up all the way, and get myself a small digital recorder with a pair of stereo condenser mics built in. Mount it on a stand, pointing toward the open lid (maybe with a little bias toward the keys) and about five feet away at an elevation of perhaps six feet if possible. You'll get some strings directly and some reflections off the lid, which will always be a part of the sound unless you remove the lid - which I think is a waste of effort - that's what a piano sounds like. Experiment with mic distance if you're getting too much room sound. A little distance will be needed to make sure you don't capture one area of the soundboard much more than others.

This will give you an entirely reasonable overall piano sound. You can dump the recording into a PC based DAW, (I like Reaper a lot) and edit, tweak, and do whatever you want. Don't be afraid to EQ and futz with it a little. Many rooms have nodes that will bring certain frequencies way out in front, and distant mic'ing approaches will pick that right up. If you find something that works, save the settings - assuming you'll be able to replicate the setup, they'll probably be used again.

This setup and a little practice will give you a recording that will be more than adequate for practice review, and for the parents to obsess over.

If your arrangement is very different, let us know, and I'm sure this board can come up with something for you.


You've got the situation picture pretty accurately. The piano is a Petrof Model III - 6'4" Grand in our carpeted living room near to one wall with furniture in the room. She wants it for her students and to record ideas for compositions. Most music played is Classical about 95% percent. The piano opens up into the room.

Focusrite makes great budget (and not-so budget) interfaces. Check out their Scarlett lineup, they work very well on OSX 10.7.+. And I hear their preamps are top notch as well.

I recently bought a Tascam US800 to upgrade from my Lexicon Omega, and it's been nothing but headaches with Lion.