Better than a "B" bender is a Palm Pedal

I have a Bigsby Palm Pedal on a SG.

You can do more with it than a "B" Bender and it works sitting or standing.


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j42/skullcreekcamp/MVC-002F.jpg

All you need to do is find one...

... and how $$ ??

more crack please!

I never had a bender I couldn't use while seated.
I know some people swear by the palm pedals, but they are just too much in the way for me.

All you need to do is find one...

true dat

my bender works just fine sitting down. since your palm pedal bends the B string,and so does my forrest lee jr. bender,exactly how or what makes the pedal better?

I just don't buy it, I don't wanna do anything with my picking hand but pick. Would also prefer a bender that is hidden a little more myself.

I would love to have a Palm Pedal on my Gretsch hollowbody to take the place of the bigsby tremolo that I never use.

I just don't buy it, I don't wanna do anything with my picking hand but pick. Would also prefer a bender that is hidden a little more myself.

+1 100%

I also prefer using my picking hand for just that, but some have worked out pretty cool stuff with those palm levers. To each his own thang!

No thanks on the palm bender and a hipshot as well....I'll stick with my PW and my Glaser..

In the absence of a reply from Jerry, I'll at least have to put in a vote for the BPP.. :lol:

been on the west coast all month and just got back.... I love Bigsby Palm Pedals too. They're my favorite benders and have been since the early seventies. I currently have 7 guitars equipped with them including:

Gibson Les Paul
Gibson SG
Epiphone Sheraton
Epiphone Casino
Epiphone Riviera P-93
Epiphone Les Paul (two of 'em)....

The Sheraton and Riviera have gold palm pedals on them.... Also, I always cut off the G lever about a half an inch and move them closer to the bridge. Also the B lever(s) are a little higher than the G lever, they seem to work better that way..........

Here's some shots of mine as well as an old photo of me taken in 1976 with my old Gibson Trini Lopez guitar which had my first BPP attached.........JH in Va.

...well Jerry, I was wondering where you'd got to.... :lol:

I had a palm pedal on my tele. No thanks. It worked well, but completely killed my ability to palm mute. I tried one with the levers cut down, but I didn't like the feel. I didn't blink twice about selling it and buying a hipshot. And I didn't even blink when I got rid of the hipshot.

I'm getting one from Bill Bores in a few weeks and then installing it.

Palm pedals seriously get in my way and interfere entirely with my picking hand. It would be an expensive paperweight for me. I will take a hands free bender anyday

I played a Bigsby Palm Pedal for years on a '68 Tele and have been playing PW and Evans Pullstrings since the 70's. I've also had the EZ Bender put out by Epiphone, one-of benders and a Hipshot.

Of all of them the Bigsby was the most instrusive to normal guitar playing. I pick very lightly and move my hand from very close to the saddles to over the pickups for tonal nuances; I also do a lot of right-hand damping, not just to shorten notes or give them a thudding sort of sound, but to kill sympathetic vibration of other strings when I want a certain set of overtones working (especially when milking feedback on a long note).

None of that is possible with a Palm Pedal, and only a few work with the EZ Bender (where the lever sits back a bit further. My Hipshot had the 3rd string lever - which I swung permanently out of the way. The problem with the Palm Pedal is very simple - it gets in the way and you can't compensate for it unless you want to completely change you style of playing.

I've seen the modified versions with shorter levers - in fact I've PLAYED them. They're still in the way. The other thing you lose is being able to bend a note picked in a particular spot - you are locked into a very short range of picking positions.

Now, if you play with your right hand locked into a picking position in front of the bridge pickup 100% of the time (or don't mind if you have to) then they work, sorta - but still affect the angle of your picking and your dynamics.

All of the strap or hip-actuated units - PW's PG's, Glasers, Higgins, Hipshot, Evans, B&W, Bores, Shelton etc etc - free your right hand completely. You can play the guitar as if there is no bender on it at all if you want.

Not so with palm devices. They limit your technique, and that's an absolute deal-killer IMO.

I like the G-lever on my Hipshot. It's small and it may be turned to point down. I hardly notice it when I don't bend with it.

I own a Bigsby Palm Pedal, and haven't yet found what I would use it on. I may sell it here some day, but it won't be all that soon.

Because I think I like the palm lever action better, and am outfitting a Tele of mine with two Hipshot levers and no hip activated device. I have another Tele with the hip device and a lever, and I just seem to like the lever more. How I get on with two levers, I can't tell you. But again, I can just swing them out of the way and they'll be a conversation piece or something.

The fact is, I think string bending is a cool concept, but I had a Parsons-Greene bender, and never got any skill with it. I had to sell it. I now have the one Tele with all the Hipshot contraptions on it, but I haven't ever been happy with the bridge and rarely play it. That's all being worked out, but I'm not what you would call good at it.

it's not true. Everyone has their favorite benders and none is really any better than the other as they all do basically the same thing! That said, my favorite bender since 1972 has been the Bigsby Palm Pedal which was also my very first bender as my good friend and guitar hero (Al Bruno) was using one.... However my #1 guitar for gigs is my old '83 Tele top loader which has a P/W bender installed by "Stringpull" AKA Mike Nihen in Fairfax, Va. in 2005. Before that the Tele had a HipShot with both the B and G pullers and seriously, I liked the HipShot better than the P/W.... Silverface talked about the BPP being the "most intrusive" bender out there but to me it's the P/W, P/G, or any bender that requires you to "push down" on the neck. I like "free" left hand movement and the P/W type really hinder that. There are some runs I like to do with the bender engaged and it's nearly impossible (at least for me, maybe not you) while having to hold the downward pressure on the bender. With the BPP you just hold the lever and either pick hybrid style of fingerstyle (my choice). With the HipShot you can put a little pressure on the top rear bout of your guitar with the forearm of your pickin' hand and it'll hold the lever in place.... My normal picking positon is just to rest my right hand right on the BPP's levers and keep 'em there so when a bend is needed it's right "at hand" so to speak. I don't think a BPP is a good choice for a Tele or Strat or similar guitar as there's not enough room behind the bridge to install one. Both levers will stick out too far over the bridge to be of much use. Dan Balde (now deceased) was making the BPP's for awhile before he passed away and offered a model which had "swing away" levers for Tele use. A friend of mine has one which I looked at again last month when I was in Las Vegas and it was pretty flimsy to say the least. He said that it was always loosening up and wasn't fun to play so he'd put it away a while back.... I've been thinking recently of starting to use my old vintage Gibson Les Paul which has a BPP on it as my main guitar because it has a coil tap and I can get some good single coil sounds out of it....... Lastly, I'd always recommend going fingerstyle if you have a BPP, you'll find it really shines a lot better like that..........JH in Va.

"Lastly, I'd always recommend going fingerstyle if you have a BPP, you'll find it really shines a lot better like that.........."


...Yep...
...my Tele with a BPP is used exclusively like that.. ...and (abbreviated) C6 pedal steel tuning, raised action and a slide.... any other way would be a P.I.T.A. .....even after significant modification to the way it's mounted on the guitar to get as much room as possible behind the bridge.

..but I still love it! :wink:

showing us a picture of your guitar. I think it's a work of art and I wish I had one just like it...........JH in Va.

uhh...
..Easter Sunday here and a bit busy.. :shock:

...there's a few (old) pics in this thread;

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/b-bender-forum/284271-bender-reviews.html



...Thanks for the compliments JH... I'll have to get up off my @#$e and take some new photos!

Gumbo in Oz

here's a couple of shots from that old thread....... I really love that rig and wish I has one like that.........JH in VA.

I like "free" left hand movement and the P/W type really hinder that.

Jerry ol' buddy, you're wrong as usual.

;-) (that was a joke!!!!)

Respectfully - the left hand with a shoulder-strap bender *properly set up* is not limited or hindered in the least! A well-adjusted bender requires little pressure to bend and will return to the original not immediately when you release tension - there's almost no effort required and NONE of it limits your left hand...at all. I play multiple styles of music (most of it NOT country) and seamlessly move between bends and "normal" playing at any speed and with the use of all kinds of extended chords.

There's simply no problem. I suggest that if a player finds a problem with left hand limitations he/she adjust the spring tension (if it's not adjustable by a mechanism like on the Evans Pull String the spring position and type can still be altered to lighten up the bender "action".

You DO NOT have to play them with the usual tight spring tension they come with. And that tension is what I have found causes left-hand problems for my bender students. If they are having trouble I'll adjust the tension or help them modify the installation, and afterwards they say it's like night and day.

Like I said, I have no problems at all - I play all kinds of music, use various types of slides and play with a VERY light touch on the frets - which would not be possible if the mechanism somehow interfered.

You know...I guess we're all just different. I'm just glad that we all don't have the same tastes.

I keep my tension very tight....I like it that way. I tend to pull down on the neck somewhat naturally and I don't want any accidental bends....and I'm not a "dancer" on stage. Quite the opposite. But, I'm also in the "shoulder-strap bender" camp. I'd have difficulty doing what I do if I had to use my right hand on a pedal(s).

Like I said though, I'm sure glad there are a wide variety of styles and techniques....I've not heard most of you play, but I'll bet each of you can set the thing on fire!

My 2nd one. Bought one of those $99 closeout USA Melody Makers years back at GC and had one on it, then I got my '70's B-Bender Tele and sold it.

Found this cut-down one and put it on my already-hammered-so-it-don't-matter Custom.

The pic was as I was mounting it...she's committed now!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/knobby17/palmybender.jpg

been on the west coast all month and just got back.... I love Bigsby Palm Pedals too. They're my favorite benders and have been since the early seventies. I currently have 7 guitars equipped with them including:

Gibson Les Paul
Gibson SG
Epiphone Sheraton
Epiphone Casino
Epiphone Riviera P-93
Epiphone Les Paul (two of 'em)....

The Sheraton and Riviera have gold palm pedals on them.... Also, I always cut off the G lever about a half an inch and move them closer to the bridge. Also the B lever(s) are a little higher than the G lever, they seem to work better that way..........

Here's some shots of mine as well as an old photo of me taken in 1976 with my old Gibson Trini Lopez guitar which had my first BPP attached.........JH in Va.

Is the sparkle top gold or silver? I've got a gold one, mid-90s. That was a fun limited edition.

the silver one. Here's another shot of it......JH in Va.

Does anyone know how Dan Balde acheived a 1/2 step lower on his DOBRO 'G' Palm

Pedal Assembly picture here?...

http://www.reocities.com/dbalde.geo/Dobropage.html

-jdblue

Does anyone know how Dan Balde acheived a 1/2 step lower on his DOBRO 'G' Palm

Pedal Assembly picture here?...

http://www.reocities.com/dbalde.geo/Dobropage.html

-jdblue


Yep.. :wink:

...the 'hint' is that you're looking at a BPP which has a Bigsby spring bracket on the end of the mainshaft, right??

The G lever is attached to the mainshaft, while the other two levers just 'freewheel' on it..the ball end of the G string is in front of the pivot point of the lever, so it lengthens the string by pressing down (against the tension of the mainshaft return spring)...


FWIW, I use a similar method on my 6-lever version, except I have two (opposing) springs at each end of the mainshaft...mine can rotate in either direction to either raise or lower the pitch of the two strings attached to it..
..the other four strings having their own individual levers, free-running on the same mainshaft, ala Don Balde..

I use 'collar bushes' (similar to those used by Dan on other variations of the Dobro theme) to attach those two strings to the mainshaft, which has the effect of increasing the diameter of the shaft at that point, allowing more pitch variation for a small amount of shaft rotation.

Yes...I spent about two years designing and building the thing... MUCH modification of the standard BPP components, and a lot of new fabrication of additional components... Glad I did it, but not sure I want to build too many more.. :shock:

HTH... ask more questions if you need to... either Jerry or myself seem to have explored just about everything you can do with these things except crack walnuts..

Cheers from Oz...where we're heading into what you call Fall...:cool:

lever device that's usually used for lowering of the low E string to D. It'll slip right on the cross shaft and then you just have to put a metal piece for it to stop against. However you'd only be able to use one of these for a straight "pre lower" and not one that you'd use in the middle of a song.....JH in Va.

I just don't buy it, I don't wanna do anything with my picking hand but pick. Would also prefer a bender that is hidden a little more myself.

Ah, but the posibilites are there...

Not me, but this guy really plays with it well (I think). Plus he really NAILS the whole "Jimmy Page Led Zepplin III" sound for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Jb2ZtVfEzQ

I for one am REALLY interested in one, although I think that with the plan to build a guitar from scratch, a G-bender inside the guitar may just be more exciting, but the Bigsby Palm Bender looks and sounds GREAT to me.

Cheers

Dave

My 2nd one. Bought one of those $99 closeout USA Melody Makers years back at GC and had one on it, then I got my '70's B-Bender Tele and sold it.

Found this cut-down one and put it on my already-hammered-so-it-don't-matter Custom.

The pic was as I was mounting it...she's committed now!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/knobby17/palmybender.jpgThat is one SWEET looking custom...

Cheers

Dave

The best palm pedal available has been perfected by an innovative guitarist by the name of Kenny Clark in Nashville. His design makes palm mutes easy and the action is much shorter and takes less force to bend than the Bigsby. His unit has a lever for each of all six strings. The trick is you can still use your picking hand for picking and playing your regular stuff, but when you go into pedal mode you have a whole other
instrument at your disposal. This is accomplished by picking with your fingers like you would a bass and pushing the pedals with your pinky. You can now do,things like pedal steel licks so close steel players look around for the steel player that isn't there. I contacted him through Facebook. KennyClarknashville@facebook.com

another Nashville Picker named Boomer Castleman had a six lever palm pedal device thirty years ago. Boomer's been using the thing for a long time and really is an expert at it. He invented the Bigsby Palm Pedal and originally held the patent(s) for it....He's the man!......JH in Va.

I use the Hipshot palm G lever more than I use it's B bender. I only fingerpick, and although most stuff is thumb/index/middle, I use all my fingers. I swing the G lever at an angle so that it's played with my wrist or forearm. No problem doing palm blocking, and it serves as my "anchor." Here's a pic of it in playing position;

another Nashville Picker named Boomer Castleman had a six lever palm pedal device thirty years ago. Boomer's been using the thing for a long time and really is an expert at it. He invented the Bigsby Palm Pedal and originally held the patent(s) for it....He's the man!......JH in Va.

See here:-

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/showphoto.php/photo/15204

I use the Hipshot palm G lever more than I use it's B bender. I only fingerpick, and although most stuff is thumb/index/middle, I use all my fingers. I swing the G lever at an angle so that it's played with my wrist or forearm. No problem doing palm blocking, and it serves as my "anchor." Here's a pic of it in playing position;

Ahah. And it wouldn't be too hard to make your own lever in whatever shape that would put it where you wanted. Cut a piece of metal and drill a hole in it.

..jmiles..(no problem doing palm blocking)....have 2 of the same units with drop d..the last 20 years.......depends on how close the unit sits to the bridge, some bodies are a little different...i also fingerpick and find im gettin tired of the wrist thing...and going more to the b bender because of it.....only thing i dont like about that is i have broke both loops,where the hip rod goes into.........the hipshot is a good unit for what it is...but id love a real double bender

..jmiles..(no problem doing palm blocking)....have 2 of the same units with drop d..the last 20 years.......depends on how close the unit sits to the bridge, some bodies are a little different...i also fingerpick and find im gettin tired of the wrist thing...and going more to the b bender because of it.....only thing i dont like about that is i have broke both loops,where the hip rod goes into.........the hipshot is a good unit for what it is...but id love a real double bender

The Hipshot is a "REAL" double bender. All this "if you don't have a XYZ. you dont have a real bender" is just internet nonsense. So guys that spent a fortune to add a strap bender to thier guitar can feel better about themselves. Bottom line if you get the bends you want you're in business. I had a fender with a strap bender and it weighed more than a 70's les paul custom. I'll take the hipshot. I'ts cheaper, doesn't add much weight, and if I get sick of it I can take it off. And it works great too! There are lots of different approaches to string benders and they all have merit. There is no one REAL B Bender, whatever gets the job done best for you is the right one.

What he said ^ I have several different types of benders, and the Hipshot is my favorite by far.