R. Stratenstein's 2012 Challenge Build Thread -- COMPLETED [Archive]

R. Stratenstein

March 18th, 2012, 09:48 PM

Here's the ebony fretboard blank and the poplar for the body, ready for Mr. Snipes. I cut the poplar long to take in account the sniping on the ends I know will occur.

On the left is a bucket head my wife gave me this Christmas for my chop saw. I wasn't sure it would do well on the 12" saw, but it pulls an amazing amount of sawdust in and helps keep the area a bit cleaner (which is a relative term in my shop :oops:)

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4711.JPG

As you can see from the caliper's dial, the thickness of the poplar billet is almost perfect for a Tele--IF I were going to paint or stain it. I'm not, so I need to hog it down a bit to accommodate the cap I intend to use.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4723.JPG

After a couple of runs through the planer, one side of the poplar took on a really nice, smooth surface and beautiful appearance I can only describe as "creamy". If it weren't for that old poplar green-brown patch in the foreground, I might consider some kind of stain and clear finish. But I did decide to make sure I oriented the blank so the nicer sides would be on the back, so I might be able to do something that honors the pretty wood.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4724.JPG

After a few runs through the planer, the ebony started developing some beautiful, smooth surfaces. Those saw cuts were really, really deep. I just barely got the marks planed out, while keeping the thickness I wanted. I will probably go with a slightly thinner neck--around 11 or 13 sixteenths.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4728.JPG

MYSTERY TIME

As I was approaching the final runs through the planer with the ebony, on one run, some strange tracks appeared that almost made my heart stop! My first thought was that it was some kind of worm or bug holes in the ebony, and the game was over--my next thought was that something on the planer had broken, and was dripping grease on to the wood:

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4730.JPG

What the hell is going on???:confused:--then I saw it--the cause--

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4731.JPG

The snipe sticks I had glued to the ebony were cut from a common 2 X 4. Pine. It was hidden when I started, but planing uncovered an internal pitch pocket. As the sticky stuff ran through the planer, it transferred to the drive roller, and then printed perfect little images of itself all down my board.

A little lacquer thinner on a rag, and all was well. I finished up planing everything without incident.

BODY BLANK

Next step, line up the planed poplar billet on the chop saw, lay out the length using the Tele body template (thanks, Terry Downs), then--and this one is for you, Mojotron--cut the lengths guided by a --finger quotes--LAY-SEER--finger quotes.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4742.JPG

I forgot to take pictures while I was setting up the gluing, suffice it to say, though, that I have not used original Titebond in a long time, and I had forgotten how quickly it begins to set and grab. Pretty sure I got it OK. If not, there may be some serious hand-powered leveling, cuz it won't fit through Mr. Snipes any more.

R. Stratenstein

March 18th, 2012, 10:22 PM

I have a bandsaw that has an amazingly wide mouth, and I have a really nice Woodslicer Resawing blade from Highland Woodworking. I have cut some pretty nice thin pieces with it. However, this maple is a bit hard, and the saw is a bit underpowered, and I'm afraid that even with the Woodslicer blade, it may wander and ruin my nice piece of figured maple.

So, just the other day I spotted OpenG Capo 4 doing some resaw work on a table saw--something I've done with fair success before. It's very wasteful of the wood, cuts a big kerf, but the advantage is that the blade doesn't wander, and the fence keeps exact positioning of the wood. So I set up to resaw on my table saw.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4734.JPG

The featherboard and its brace, clamped to the saw table, keeps the wood pressed tightly against the fence. Usually my little table saw breezes right through wood, but that maple is a different story. I had also forgotten how easily maple will burn.

An important safety consideration is that the board I'm sawing is wide enough so when you saw on both edges, there is about a 3/4" wide section that is not cut. I would not resaw a board in this manner if the blade could reach through to the first kerf, because when the saw cuts through at the end, there is a loss of control, and potential for kickback that is extremely dangerous.

So after the table-sawing is done, you run the board through the bandsaw to release the two boards. The down side is that you have a ridge running through the middle of your two book leaves, and of course, that much hot table saw blade on that much maple for that long= burning. Here's what it looked like immediately after I sawed the board on the bandsaw. :shock:

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4737.JPG

But after a couple of trips through Mr. Snipes ( I cut the maple long, also), and our nice figure re-appears. The main problem with this technique is that because of the wide table saw kerf, and the fact that you have to plane down to remove the ridge and the burning, a lot of material gets removed, and you lose the mirror image quality of a good bookmatch. I'd really like to get a new, big powerful bandsaw that will cut true to a resaw fence, with an extremely thin blade, to get mirror image bookmatches.

But I am not completely disappointed with this outcome. It's pretty wood, and unless I botch the coloring and finishing, I think will make a nice guitar cap.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4739.JPG

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4740.JPG

Wood with figure can move, and we have had unusually high humidity for March, in the past few days, so I put the wood under a plywood caul, weighted down, to minimize it curling or warping, until I can get it glued down. The saw table makes a nice, flat surface to squish it down on.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4741.JPG

R. Stratenstein

March 18th, 2012, 10:37 PM

It's time to confess I have had a hard time making templates.

I never used them before coming to this Forum, but I have decided they offer advantages I'd like to take advantage of.

However, my first efforts were not satisfactory. I purchased "hard-tempered" board, used to be called Masonite, now I think it's Chinese, at Home Depot. First sign of trouble is that the 2 X 4' board was bowed--after being stored on its side. Nevertheless, I pressed on, sprayed adhesive on the board, applied my neck and body prints (thanks, T. Downs!) onto it, and sawed it the next day.
Everything OK to this point, except the crap is still bowed. Being new to my new ROSS, I worked carefully, but nevertheless, the paper edge of the print fuzzed and folded, obscuring the line, and I made several sanding errors--my bad, not the machine's. The errors are bad enough that I need to back to square 1.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4745.JPG

This neck will not look good in a properly-routed neck cavity!

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4747.JPG

Headstock mis-shaping is probably less onerous, except there are a bunch of other errors.

So, to save time, I've ordered up a set of Ron Kirn's body templates, and decided to abandon the crap sheet goods I got at HD. :mad: I have a scrap of 1/4" oak plywood panel from an earlier project, and I'll use that. Here you can see everybody bedded down for the night, the new neck print glued to the oak, behind that the body blank glue-up, and behind that, the maple cap halves sleeping for tonight. We'll get back at them tomorrow or early next week. Someone on this forum suggested spraying the glued paper with clear finish, to harden the paper and make it less likely to fuzz or roll. I'm going to try that too.

R. Stratenstein

March 18th, 2012, 10:41 PM

Really nice wood, it's going to be a looker! Nice work.

Thank You. I hope I can do justice to it!

R. Stratenstein

March 20th, 2012, 10:38 PM

I'd hoped to get back to my project yesterday, but things are just crazy at work and elsewhere now.

Got a package in the mail yesterday !:
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4755.JPG

It's my Ron Kirn body templates already. Wow, that was fast--thanks Pierre and Ron! :grin:

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4756.JPG

Templates are perfect, and Ron's booklets packed with them are great! I laughed myself to sleep last night reading them. Outspoken--Ron??? Naaah!

If I get some time in the next few days, I'm going to make working templates out of them, but meanwhile will use the outline template to trace the body outline for cutting.

Last time I left, I had adhered the neck drawing onto the plywood base I intend to use as my neck master template. Tip someone had here was to spray additional adhesive, or decoupage sealer, or clear finish to saturate the paper, and make it less likely to fuzz and fold over, so the line is not obscured when it's time to precision-shape it. I opted for the clear finish, Krylon to be exact, because it's what I had.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4758.JPG

It's a shame I botched up my first template while sanding it, because except for the butt end radii of the neck, it fits perfectly into Ron's neck template opening--a good friction fit.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4757.JPG

The poplar body blanks came out of the clamps, too. Good solid joint, glue squeeze-out not too bad. Big scraper took care of it fast.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4759.JPG

The glue joint is good and tight, and pretty much satisfactory, except that it is organically impossible for me to glue two boards together and have the joint surfaces flush. Even with biscuits. Even with big, strong clamps squeezing the two halves into alignment. I think it's a cosmic thing, but fortunately in this case, isn't too awfully bad. I left some wood in anticipation of that, and some 40-grit on the ROS leveled things out pretty quickly.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4761.JPG

R. Stratenstein

March 20th, 2012, 11:21 PM

Two boo-boos so far, that I'm aware of, both the result of inattention:

As I mentioned above, one side of the poplar had a nice, creamy, and mostly light, clear appearance that I think I could have tinted or stained nicely. No more. I glued the blanks together wrong, and have one green half and one nice half on each side!

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4760.JPG

Looks like it will be an opaque paint job on the back :roll:

The other goof I barely got away with--I think. When I measured the lengths of the poplar body halves to cut from the single board, I used my first body template, which is close enough for that, but not good enough to use for routing, etc. However, rather than measure using the length from the upper bout to the bottom of the guitar, I used the distance from the bottom of the guitar to the top of the neck pocket. In case you haven't noticed, the upper bout extends a bit longer than the neck pocket. D'oh. It is very, very close, but by carefully placing the template on the blank, I can just fit it all in. There will be no need for close bandsawing or preliminary sanding with ROSS at those points--maybe even no need for routing, just finish sanding. :mad:

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4764.JPG

Since the body blank is more or less ready to go, I thought I'd prepare the cap. I'm using a common method to join edges of thin wood, using masking or painter's tape. Raise your hand if you've ever tried to use clamps to do this, and had the thing spring apart and slobber glue all over everything. The tape method works. well.

First you match up your two halves, and place one outside edge on a riser block. I used a piece of 3/4 inch thick wood. Carefully press the halves together at the joint, and press tape across the joint. When done, fold the assembly backwards, like opening a book, and brush glue on the adjacent edges. Put the assembly down on a flat surface, and the tape will pull the joint closed just tightly enough.

To make sure this joint stays flat, I probably over-weighted it, but I don't think its going to have a little ledge when it comes out of the "clamps"

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4763.JPG

While the Krylon and cap's glue set up, I'm gonna get some shut-eye. Maybe be able to get to it tomorrow, cut out the body, and get going on this!

OpenG Capo4

March 20th, 2012, 11:23 PM

OpenG Capo4

March 20th, 2012, 11:27 PM

I use the tape method as well. If I ever have a ledge, its small enough to knock out with my orbital sander.

I've heard that dyeing poplar red can sort of cancel out the "green". So you may be able to do that rather than going opaque.

nosmo

March 20th, 2012, 11:34 PM

R. Stratenstein

March 20th, 2012, 11:43 PM

You might be able to save that first template by making the heel into the rounded "strat" shape.

That reminds me that I need to make a new neck pocket template, and a new neck template as well. I have a nice template I made from the E-hawley file but I like a wider nut width so I drew up my own.

Body blank looks nice. I never can get them exactly flush either. I usually just run mine through the planer after glue up.

Had not thought of that. The headstock isn't that much off--probably could live with it, maybe clean up the radii and flatten the bottom a little more of the neck profile. I might give it a shot for my next project. I was totally UNimpressed with the HD hard-pressed, or tempered board. I don't think I'll use it again. Even cheap plywood, with the voids bondoed, would be better than that crap.

I wish I had a wide jointer (that did not snipe) to run something that wide through. I built a thickness sander that will handle about 15" wide, but it is in need of some serious modifications and tuneup before I put any nice wood through it.

I've heard that dyeing poplar red can sort of cancel out the "green". So you may be able to do that rather than going opaque.

Seems like I've heard that too. Unfortunately, the grain orientation was also bungled--would have been meh if I hadn't botched it up, now, not sure. One idea may be to try and offset the green with some regular red, then color the entire back with dark maroon, translucent, but so the grain barely shows. Thanks for the ideas!

emoney

March 20th, 2012, 11:52 PM

I agree with OpenG on the template for the heel. Lots and lots of guitars built with rounded
cornered neck pockets because CnC machines tend to do that. On the body, if you'd
prefer to go with a stain, you've got nothing to lose trying to "match" it when it comes
time to apply color. You can always cover it if it fails. I'm dealing with two different
pieces of Mahogany that are joined so one half is a darker shade than the other. I figure
if I can match it, great, and if not, nothing really lost in the attempt.

Great thread as your woodworking skills shine through. Lot's of good information gonna
come out of this one.

R. Stratenstein

March 20th, 2012, 11:56 PM

It's looking great. That bookmatched top is really beautiful even if it isn't the perfect mirror image. That's about the only way I could do it with the tools I have at the moment (you always need more tools!). I don't have a planer so at this point I'd even take Mr. Snipes off your hands.

Thanks for the kind words.

I was so thrilled when I got my new planer--I don't think I noticed it sniped for a year or two. I complain about it, it does waste wood, but it is a handy tool to have, and I'd rather have it than not. I think the Rigid one will go 13" which will accommodate a Tele body, and I think it can be locked at thickness settings, which helps reduce snipe a lot.

+1 on the more tools!

R. Stratenstein

March 22nd, 2012, 10:45 PM

Got down to the shop for a while this evening.

Had two things cooking-- No. 1 was the bookmatched maple cap joint. Had a bit of anxiety about that, but decided if it came out really crappy, I could just saw it in two, joint it again, and give it another shot.

Tension builds as the clamps and weights come off. . . . .

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4765.JPG

Well, :grin: maybe not world class, but I don't think I'd say I botched it

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4766.JPG

As you builders know, there's just no describing the chatoyance effect of figured wood as it is moved around under light. Truly, only God can make a tree, as the poet said. The other side is almost as nice.

I sanded both sides with a worn-out 180 grit pad to clean up the glue and level out the miniscule mismatches, and it's smooth now.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4767.JPG

I'm not going to sand it any more for the time being for a couple of reasons, the main one being that the parts of my random orbit sander that make it orbit randomly are worn out, and if left off of wood for any length of time, it takes off like a runaway jet turbine. When you put that down on wood, you end up with a 5" gouge. Got the repair parts on order, hope they'll get here soon. I'll be needing to do some serious sanding before too long.

Anyway, I put the sanded maple bookmatch back to bed on the tablesaw top, with a plywood caul and some weights to keep it flat until it's time to glue it down on the body.

Next up is the neck template blank. The Krylon clear seems to have done the trick, the paper is slick and has a hard, shiny finish. Start to cut it out on the bandsaw.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4768.JPG

For the benefit of those who may not have seen this trick--it can be difficult to cut tight interior curves without wandering into your work piece. If you cut little release paths into the curve, it's less likely that your blade will get trapped, and steered in a direction you don't want to go.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4770.JPG

Got the neck cut out--feel a whole lot better about the plywood than the crappy fibrous sheet goods. And speaking of crappy, fibrous sheet goods- - -

I was just about to lay out The Precious for making some working templates, and noticed this--
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4771.JPG

It may be a little difficult to see in the photo, but it's a discolored, swollen place, that extends along the entire edge of the stuff. The edge is not only swollen, but feels fuzzy, too. The thing's been standing in water. I already noticed the board seems to be a bit off color instead of the normal brown, so I guess they got a buy on some real crap. I'm beginning to dislike the big orange box more and more.

Anyway, it's not worth wasting the gas to return the thing, so I moved operations to the other end of the board, and made a couple of tracings of The Precious I and II.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4772.JPG

The neck route template I got from Ron Kirn--which I call only partially in just, The Precious II--precious because of the time and aggravation it saves me-- has a cut out template hole for a humbucker in case you want to use one on your Tele. Ron even put a note on there telling you it's just for the shape, and not to locate where the pickup should go !
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4773.JPG

I'm building this one straight Tele, but someday, who knows, I'll put a humbucker in one.

Anyway, to wrap up for tonight, I got my neck master blank rough cut, and tracings made for my working templates from the masters. Next time I'll be cutting out the templates and fine-sanding them. I probably won't share much, if any of that with you, everybody here has seen templates cut, routed, and sanded about 1,000 times. I'll chime back in when it's time to cut out and route the body. I have this monster 2" cut pattern bit with top and bottom bearings to think scary thoughts about in the meantime.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1224/medium/IMG_4775.JPG
G'Night, all.

RogerC

March 22nd, 2012, 11:01 PM

R. Stratenstein

March 22nd, 2012, 11:16 PM

Looks like it's starting to come together. That to is really something. I've never messed with any highly-figured wood, but the guy that owns the high end custom shutter shop where I buy some stuff told me that if you scrape it rather than sand it, the chatoyance becomes even more pronounced.

Thanks, Roger, it kind of feels like I'm stuck in permanent "getting ready to get ready" mode, but I guess I am making some progress. I have also heard that scraping does a better job than sanding for bringing out figuring, so I guess I'd better at least give it a shot. From what I read, there's a whole new galaxy of tools for just sharpening the things, and skills to use and sharpen it too, but let's not forget this is a CHALLENGE, right?

Speaking of challenges, I am enjoying the heck out of your build. Whatever you pull off with this, you get the A++ for effort and innovation, no mistaking it. I have tried molding things, but only poured concrete like a porch step or something, and it's not at all easy. And of course, this evening's installment of your build, not only a See-ment Tele, but a contoured one! Like everybody else says, I can't wait until you pour this monster. I guess actually what I can't wait for is when you unmold it, and the world gets to see how it came out! :cool::lol: Very cool!

R. Stratenstein

March 25th, 2012, 11:31 PM

Had a front come through late yesterday, and today dawned clear, cool and less humid than it's been.

Apple tree's starting to bloom outside my shop door:

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4779.JPG

It's a novelty tree that had 5 variety of apple trees grafted onto a single stem. Seems like only one or two of them bloom every year. Never got an apple from it, but fed a lot of birds, squirrels, deer, and what have you.

Fragrant blossoms, sure sign of spring.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4783.JPG

While I was out photographing the apple tree, a delivery truck came by:

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4787.JPG

I sent him on his way to RogerC's.

Time to get to work. Last session, I said I wasn't going to show any template work, but I thought maybe I'd better document at least just a little bit of it, so here it is:

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4790.JPG

Rough cut MDF layouts then bandsawed them to shape. Fine-sanded on the BOSS so router wouldn't have much to do.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4792.JPG

The Ron Kirn templates were great, and made it much easier and faster to get some working templates up and running.

Next, laid out the template on the body blank:

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4805.JPG

I bored the bottom of the cutout and the little curve on the top of the neck boss with forstner bits, helped a lot to make smooth curves without wandering the bandsaw blade into my line.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4793.JPG

Next up, the dreaded routing of the body perimeter. I broke out my ho-made router table. It's made of melamine over particle board. I routed out a pocket for the router base plate. My DeWalt router is the machine it's built for--small, but plenty of power. This shot shows the table before I took off the fence, which I didn't need, and would be in the way. The table is clamped down to the table saw top for stability and flatness.

First pass went pretty good. Did it template down, cutting about 1/3 of the side of the body. Here's a shot after setting up for the 2nd pass.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4819.JPG

Time for the 3rd pass, and things started going South pretty fast. I ran out of router bit with the one I was using, so I broke out a 2" top and bottom bearing bit, which I thought should finish up the job, taking the last third, and maybe clean and even up the parts already routed.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4821.JPG

It was when setting up this bit that I discovered a bit of tearout in the portion of the neck boss that will be routed out for the neck pocket, so I wasn't especially worried.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4826.JPG

I started routing slowly and carefully, and the long bit seemed to be cutting well, except not completely as deep as the other bit, leaving a bit of a step--no problemo, I can sand that out.

Because of the way my table was set up. some of the passes were blind--with the body between me and the router bit. Things seemed to be going well, so I didn't think anything of it. Big mistake. :roll:

When I finished the second pass, I found several places with some pretty bad tearout, some "card-decking", and fuzzy cuts. I do not know what happened. When I was watching, it was cutting cleanly, smoothly and the only adverse thing was that it wasn't completely cutting off the last step.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4822.JPG
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4820.JPG

Here's a shot of one of the worst, inside the cutout, after several minutes of working on it with the spindle sander.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4824.JPG

Man, was I bummed out! :cry: However, such is the nature of a challenge, yes? As I read in someone else's thread, somebody said they regarded guitar building as a series of corrections to the screw ups made. I ROSSed and BOSSed the heck out of the body, and dang if I didn't get everything cleaned up except for the tearout in the neck boss, some of which will be removed anyway. I also realized I could remove any lingering problems by double-binding the thing. I already planned to bind the top, won't hurt to do the back, too.

But here is definitely a Whiteside spiral pattern bit in my future !

So having dispensed with that, time for the good stuff--the figured wood.

I laid out the newly-repaired body blank on top, found the best location for the best showing of the figure ( I hope :neutral:), and traced it out. Bored the bottom of the cutout and the little curve at the top of the neck boss, with forstner bits, and band sawed it out.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4827.JPG

Here's what I like to call the Money Shot, if you know what I mean. Looks like the top of a figured Telecaster, finally !

So it was time to marry the poplar and the maple. As I was moving the poplar body around, it dawned on me that "dang, this thing seems kinda heavy". Hadn't thought of that possibility, I figured the poplar would be kind of light, so I ran upstairs and got the postal scale.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4828.JPG
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4830.JPG

I guess Les Paul fans would laugh at me, but at over 4-1/2 pounds, that's heavier than I wanted, still have to route out for neck and pickups, but also still have to glue on cap, plus pickups, etc. I don't want it to be neck-heavy, but would like to lighten it up a bit.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4831.JPG

Probably one of the ugliest lightening jobs ever. I also got closer to the bridge location above the control plate than I intended, but there will be solid wood under it, barely. By the time I got to this point, with my router bit experience, I wasn't up for more template making and routing, so I just took a sharp chisel and hand-pared the "points" off between the holes. Took off over a pound, all told. Should be fine, now.

To wrap things up for the day, I gave the poplar blank top a quick sanding, did the same for the bottom of the maple cap, put masking tape around the edge of the poplar blank to catch any glue runout that might run down the sides, spread glue. I tapped in two small nails to keep the thing from sliding while I was clamping it up. Ended up with 27 clamps holding everything together tonight until the glue dries.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4836.JPG

Well, I finally feel like the thing's really taken off. Thanks for looking! :smile::cool::wink:

R. Stratenstein

March 25th, 2012, 11:40 PM

Almost forgot, two discoveries I wanted to share:

First, my basement shop atmosphere is usually pretty good, but occasionally gets kind of humid. After trying a number of things to fight rust, I found Camellia Oil at Highland Woodworking--the stuff does a great job of keeping rust off, and unlike petroleum based oils or silicone, it does not contaminate your project, and threaten to ruin your finish. I give my router bits, chisels, etc. a quick wipe after use, and they're rust free and shiny next time I get them out. Other sources may carry it, but like I said, I found it at Highland Woodworking.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4812.JPG

Second thing is for new ROSS or other spindle sander owners. If you don't know about, or yet have a crepe rubber cleaner, get one for sure. They extend the life of your sanding cylinders greatly. Works great for any powered sander abrasives--belt sanders, random orbits, etc.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1230/medium/IMG_4810.JPG

Hope I'm not being Mr. Know it All, just wanted to share a couple of tips that have really helped me.

RogerC

March 26th, 2012, 08:29 AM

Really nice progress. I'm with you on getting a whiteside bit. All of my router bits are cheap, so it's always an adventure when I have to do any routing, and thanks for the shop tips, too. Tool mainenance is definitely an area where I need a lot more education.

Oh, and the delivery hasn't made it yet:lol:

R. Stratenstein

March 26th, 2012, 10:37 PM

Thanks, Roger. Yes, I didn't mention the C-word (cheep) regarding my router bits, they were gifts, after all, but alas, I think that's a big part of it. I see a lot of guys here doing just fine with Whiteside and other quality brand bits with no tear-out. I also read, and even printed Jack Wells' excellent advice about downhill routing, to avoid tear-out. I certainly should have known better, but using a router bit against the grain is so, well, in-grained (bad pun:roll:) by years of woodworking, that I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Most of my tear-out was on end-grain, and I already knew better than that.

Late last night, kicking myself, I just booted up the computer, bit the bullet, and the Whiteside spiral's on the way. I'm so snake-bit now, I need a boost to get the router out.

I thought Camellia Oil was one of those fru-fru yuppie scum overpriced scams until somebody I really respect told me he uses it, and suggested I try it. I'm such a slob, it's nice to know that even if I do drip a bit on my project, it won't permanently ruin the finish.

Sorry about the delivery. I don't think that little guy was up to a big trip out West, and probably the mud's hardened by now.

Continuing to enjoy your 'Cretele build ! Haven't tuned in tonight yet, but will, right after I get mine out of the clamps and see how the cap glued on.

Barncaster

March 26th, 2012, 10:46 PM

flatfive

March 26th, 2012, 10:54 PM

OpenG Capo4

March 26th, 2012, 11:00 PM

I'll have to check out Highland Woodworking. I used to see their ads on GPTV during Norm Abram's show.

I got one of those rubber blocks and its awesome for keeping the ROSS belts/rolls clean.

R. Stratenstein

March 26th, 2012, 11:01 PM

Glue-up of the cap went fine. Tape saved me a lot of scraping of glue run-out and the cap's on good and tight, looks great, and will look even better trimmed to fit. (Whiteside bit is on it's way, or I may ROSS-BOSS it if I decide I can't wait)

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1231/medium/IMG_4842.JPG

While pulling the pins I used to keep it from slipping, it hit the light just so, and I saw something I hadn't before--Mr. Snipes' revenge. Sniping isn't his only trick. Apparently he wasn't happy that I fooled him with the ebony planing job, so he took it out on my maple figure, chunking the surface grain:

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1231/medium/IMG_4840.JPG
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1231/medium/IMG_4839.JPG

As obvious as it looks close up with the light just so, it's quite hard to detect straight on. Some of it will be under the bridge, so I could get away with it if I wanted to, but some is not under the bridge.

So my big question for experienced lacquer-shooters out there, is what to do?
Can I fill that tear-out with vinyl sealer? Some other spray-on filler (would prefer not to muddy up the surface with paste type fillers, if possible). I could sand it, in fact, I plan to sand it some more when I dye the thing black to pop the grain, but the more I sand, the further I get from the bookmatch pattern, which has wandered too far as it is. Just say to hell with it and leave it? Finish it and throw it down the stairs to begin the relicing process?

I'm at a loss. I was thinking about possibly considering a back-routed control cavity, so I could avoid a control plate, and show off more of the figure, but jeez, if this is gonna show, maybe I'll just get some purple Krylon or something. . .

Would be grateful for any advice.

R. Stratenstein

March 26th, 2012, 11:20 PM

My spiral just came a few days ago and all I can say is WOW. Combined with close to the line sanding and good templates, the results are a cut above. Highly recommended. Can't wait to get back in the shop!

Barncaster

Barncaster, glad to see you made it back from the cuttin' in good form. Thought about you today, said a little prayer.

Thinking about all the time it took me to set up multiple passes with a small bit, the "stripes" I got on the edge of the guitar, and to end up with tearout, and I guess the kicker was that I re-read one of Colt W. Knight's posts about how he justified it at least partially because of the time it saves. Hmm--works better, Keeps you from botching up irreplaceable wood, doesn't spoil your work, saves you time--is there a down side here?:confused: I'll make up the $80 or so in time and lack of heartaches.

Thanks for the shout from your recovery bed.

R. Stratenstein

March 26th, 2012, 11:36 PM

R. Stratenstein -- too bad about the small tear outs on the
body. Otherwise things look great and you're obviously
thinking about what you're doing.

A little trick I learned here for templates made from paper
plans: after gluing the plan to the MDF (or whatever), score
the perimeter line on the plan with a knife. This avoids the
problem with the line getting fuzzy and obscured during
sanding.

That maple top is really nice! How do you plan to finish it?

Thanks, Flatfive, I appreciate the compliments. I'm trying to think about what I'm doing, especially with rapidly moving pieces of steel and carbide driven by motors. (Woodworkers who don't get nicknames like "stumpy":shock:). Sometimes with this complete Tele build I got myself into, the challenge is to know what to think about, and when!! It's great having the depth of experience here that you can fall back on.

Y'know, now I remember reading about that scoring of the paper--too bad I didn't remember it before I decimated my first neck template. My second one has been clearcoated, AND I'll score it--should have it made! Thanks for reminding me.

As far as finishing the thing, I was originally going to try a cherry burst, but for somebody who's only done rudimentary spray jobs, it occurred to me that that might be a bit over-ambitious, especially when I'm trying to make a deadline. Second to my love of cherry bursts, is just a cherry red finish, kinda like the best of the old Gibby 335's with a lightly (red) tinted clear coats.

At OpenGCapo4's suggestion, I'm going to try and kill some of the poplar green on the back with some red dye, then go for a red mahogany or maroon back and sides. Darker red, almost hiding the grain.

With the tearout, will probably be going for white binding top and bottom. There's a theme to all that red, hope to reveal it soon.

Of course, all the finish talk is premature until I at least get a neck template cut out, and hopefully a neck, too.

Been enjoying your build. Your CA filler may have solved the problem I posted in my last post.

R. Stratenstein

March 26th, 2012, 11:43 PM

I'll have to check out Highland Woodworking. I used to see their ads on GPTV during Norm Abram's show.

I got one of those rubber blocks and its awesome for keeping the ROSS belts/rolls clean.

HW is Highly recommended. Takes me about an hour just to make the rounds in the store, examining all the stuff I'd get if I was rich. Pretty regularly, too, you'll run into a real luthier who, although is working at a level I can only dream of, makes for an interesting conversation. Good folks who really know what they're talking about, and don't mind you trying out the thousand dollar planes and stuff, just to see what it's like. (Or they didn't say they minded!)

I can honestly say I have never bought anything from them that wasn't up to my expectations, and probably the best tool of it's type I own.

And no, I don't own stock in, work for, or have any financial interest in them.

From Athens, it's an easy drive, and you can hit some of the Virginia-Highland joints while you're there. I occasionally hear a decent band while I'm walking down there, and stop in for a beer and listen.

BTW, the Harbor Freight crepe blocks seem to work as well as the high-dollar ones, so I wouldn't waste the money on the name brands.

Barncaster

March 26th, 2012, 11:44 PM

Barncaster, glad to see you made it back from the cuttin' in good form. Thought about you today, said a little prayer.

Thinking about all the time it took me to set up multiple passes with a small bit, the "stripes" I got on the edge of the guitar, and to end up with tearout, and I guess the kicker was that I re-read one of Colt W. Knight's posts about how he justified it at least partially because of the time it saves. Hmm--works better, Keeps you from botching up irreplaceable wood, doesn't spoil your work, saves you time--is there a down side here?:confused: I'll make up the $80 or so in time and lack of heartaches.

Thanks for the shout from your recovery bed.

Hey,

Thanks for the good vibes! It's much appreciated.

The first time I saw the Whiteside up- spiral bit it was in Preeb's router table. Its presence there was sufficient endorsement for me! A definitely superior tool.

Barncaster

flatfive

March 27th, 2012, 09:28 AM

At OpenGCapo4's suggestion, I'm going to try and kill some of the poplar green on the back with some red dye, then go for a red mahogany or maroon back and sides. Darker red, almost hiding the grain.

Red over poplar does work pretty well. Here's transparent red
over a poplar body with some strong green streaks.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-d2J-inc6I3U/TWAN5-vCWEI/AAAAAAAABOI/GRV2UoDoO94/s400/IMG_6744.JPG

emoney

March 27th, 2012, 09:46 AM

Guitar novice

March 27th, 2012, 10:03 AM

Any chance you could raise some of those dents will the old, "iron on wet rag" trick? Or
is that missing wood? 2nd option, why not just lightly sand the whole top to get it all down
to the lowest plane? A piece of glass and some glue on sandpaper big enough to encompass
the whole top would do the trick or you could even go the "router planer sled" route.

+1. I've tried that on my first body I cut and I worked well. I it doesn't work then no harm done. I think the key is that it needs to be a dent rather a cut in wood.

Cheers

OpenG Capo4

March 27th, 2012, 10:03 AM

Thats how I feel at Woodcraft on Holcomb Bridge, I can never just go in and go out. I always spend a while looking at tools and lumber and looking in their bin of thin stock for fretboard blanks.

My planer takes chips out of figured wood as well. I've been taking very tiny passes and running it a little thick so I can take down the last little bit with sanding. My StewMac level sanding beam gets a lot of use.

One of these days I'll get my old hand plane professionally sharpened and tuned up. Woodcraft has a table where you can demo the hand planes as well. I will own a couple of Lie-Neilsen planes... someday.

alexlaguna29

March 27th, 2012, 10:38 AM

OpenG Capo4

March 27th, 2012, 10:44 AM

R. Stratenstein & OpenG,

We should meet up some time at the Holcomb Woodcraft, have a few brewskis, share guitar building methods!

Sounds like a plan. I'll probably be down that way sometime in the next couple weeks.

Maricopa

March 27th, 2012, 11:06 AM

flatfive

March 27th, 2012, 11:42 AM

Dunno if steam is going to help most of those. If the material is gone, it's gone and steam will only help with dents. Still worth a try but I'd recommend 110, 220, 320 and a sander as your best bet. Don't try filling that stuff with finish, you'll never be happy with it.

+1 Those chips don't seem to have much depth, so sanding
or otherwise removing a little wood shouldn't hurt the bookmatching
much.

anyone

March 27th, 2012, 12:21 PM

Stunning top and excellent bookmatch!
The damp rag and iron trick will raise the grain, which I think will help you sand out the divits more quickly. They're not that deep and should sand out just fine.

I'm really enjoying this thread!

Cheers!

anyone

March 27th, 2012, 01:11 PM

R. Stratenstein

March 27th, 2012, 06:01 PM

Thanks, everyone for the responses and kind words.

Unfortunately, those are tearouts the jointer made in the front surface of the wood. Little chunks torn mercilessly from their homes, and long gone with billions of their brothers and sisters into the dust collector.

I'm going to change the blades before I plane the neck blank. It's already uber-thin, and all I want to do is get a good flat surface for glueing. come to think of it, tear-out there won't matter, will it? But I will definitely want to do it before the next guitar face goes through it. So, sand we must! I got a pack of 60-grit disks today because I had a gut feel that would be the only option.

R. Stratenstein

March 27th, 2012, 06:03 PM

Red over poplar does work pretty well. Here's transparent red
over a poplar body with some strong green streaks.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-d2J-inc6I3U/TWAN5-vCWEI/AAAAAAAABOI/GRV2UoDoO94/s400/IMG_6744.JPG

Thanks Flatfive, that's definitely the look--it's great!

R. Stratenstein

March 27th, 2012, 06:13 PM

R. Stratenstein, I think, you might be able to solve your problem with wet paper towel and household iron. Not 100% sure, but worth the shot!

R. Stratenstein & OpenG,

We should meet up some time at the Holcomb Woodcraft, have a few brewskis, share guitar building methods!

Alex and OGC4--
I'm good with a meet up just about anywhere, especially if there is woodworking and brewskis involved. Maybe we could write it off as the organizational meeting of the Metro Atlanta TDPRI Challenge Survivors Association. :cool:

OpenG--
I have read reams of articles and even books about how to true up and sharpen hand planes. I have a few old nice wooden ones, and some blue collar grade iron planes--no Lie-Nielsen's mind you, but I know these planes have worked well for someone, but sure as hell not me. The skill to properly sharpen, adjust, and use them just eludes me. I think it's a function of practice, practice, practice, which equates to time, time, time, which I don't have a lot of, and of course patience. I do have a very small cheapo folded sheet metal plane that I have been able to produce some success, but I think it's because its blade will fit into my chisel sharpening jig. I think your idea of professional sharpening and set up is a good one.

R. Stratenstein

March 27th, 2012, 06:20 PM

Oh... I forgot to say that you could use the Durham's water putty trick to make that neck template fit the pocket perfectly. I think Mojotron shows how to do it in his thread. It's basically what I'm doing with the pickguard template in my thread.

Question: How do you get those multiple quote boxes into a single response? Clicking on the little box on the lower left opens new responses for each one:confused:

Anyone, yah, I saw Mojo's post about that. Doing it on purpose, no less, but it makes a perfect fit. I'm not going to discard my neck template, and will probably give that Durham's trick a try in the not too distant future.

axedaddy

March 27th, 2012, 06:25 PM

Colt W. Knight

March 27th, 2012, 06:29 PM

I tell you what I would do. Put some water in the tear out spots ( I would spit in there), Let it sit for a few minutes. Then sand the crapola out of that top.

telemaster1953

March 27th, 2012, 06:32 PM

Question: How do you get those multiple quote boxes into a single response? Clicking on the little box on the lower left opens new responses for each one:confused:

if you have three quotes you want to reply to multi-quote the first and second and then regular quote the last one.

guitarbuilder

March 27th, 2012, 07:04 PM

R. Stratenstein

March 27th, 2012, 10:58 PM

Nice work, if the tear out won't sand out, some maple saw dust in 2 part epoxy will make that disappear. I have used that trick many time, with many different woods all with great success. For me the was to not skimp on the saw dust.

Thanks, axedaddy. I'm keeping this one in my hip pocket pending a decision on finishing. I'm afraid epoxy would make spots that resist absorption of color, etc, but I guess if I put down a couple of sanding/sealer coats, and color over that, it wouldn't matter would it?

R. Stratenstein

March 27th, 2012, 11:00 PM

I tell you what I would do. Put some water in the tear out spots ( I would spit in there), Let it sit for a few minutes. Then sand the crapola out of that top.

Colt, why the moisture (spit, water, etc?) Would you expect there would be compressed wood in addition to the torn out wood?

R. Stratenstein

March 27th, 2012, 11:03 PM

if you have three quotes you want to reply to multi-quote the first and second and then regular quote the last one.

Umm, ignorance confession time. What's a multi-quote? Is it that little box that looks like a cartoon word balloon next to the Insert Image icon? I've tried that and it dosn't give the nice poster's name in bold, then the quote in a box.

Sorry to be so thick-headed, as you can see, I have not yet mastered the art of the multiple quote. :oops:

Muzikp

March 27th, 2012, 11:11 PM

Umm, ignorance confession time. What's a multi-quote? Is it that little box that looks like a cartoon word balloon next to the Insert Image icon? I've tried that and it dosn't give the nice poster's name in bold, then the quote in a box.

Sorry to be so thick-headed, as you can see, I have not yet mastered the art of the multiple quote. :oops:

You are not alone here, and braver than I for asking. Thanks.

DesmoDog

March 27th, 2012, 11:26 PM

Umm, ignorance confession time. What's a multi-quote? Is it that little box that looks like a cartoon word balloon next to the Insert Image icon? I've tried that and it dosn't give the nice poster's name in bold, then the quote in a box.

If you look in the lower right corner of every post you will see three boxes. The one in the middle is multiquote. put your cursor over it and don't move your mouse, the name will pop-up.

Like someone else said though, you only use that for the initial quotes, the last quote has to be the normal quote button.

EDIT: ok, fine, there are four boxes in posts you've made yourself... but why would you quote yourself anyway? :rolleyes:

R. Stratenstein

March 27th, 2012, 11:38 PM

If you are going to be using a lot of curly wood, you may want to start saving for a drum sander of the performax,grizzly, delta, ryobi variety. Although they aren't the same as an industrial platen sander, you can do guitar work pretty well with them.

Guitar builder, I wasn't gonna do this, but ya forced my hand. You of course, are absolutely right. :lol:

This is not the first time I've had tearout problems on figured wood. Years ago, I completely chunked a beautiful piece of crotch walnut, literally tearing out big chunks from the face with my planer, new blades, light cut and all. I haven't been saving, but have been seriously scheming to get a thickness sander ever since then.

Then, several years back, a magazine published plans for a build-it-yourself thickness sander, with a 16" width. Perfect for most cabinet, and more to the point, guitar projects.

I knew there would be mods on their design. For starters, the magazine's version had you removing your tablesaw blade, installing a pulley, and using your tablesaw to power the sander. Didn't want to do all that teardown, so I got a 1.5 HP motor to power the sander. Right now, I'm having trouble with the tracking of the feed belt, due to circumferential inaccuracy of the PVC-and-wood disc rollers on which the belt runs. I was having trouble evening up the main roller (for the sandpaper), when I realized that the elevating and locking mechanism for the feed belt (on which work will ride under the sanding platen) can, if not carefully measured each time it's adjusted, allow one side or the other to sag lower than the other, sanding your workpiece in a wedge. The thing is made of MDF, which primes and sands down real cool so it will paint up to look like cast iron, but I've learned MDF is not good material to make machines out of. I may have to rebuild the sides with some cabinet-grade plywood for strength and accuracy.

I've found some blogs and posts on home made thickness sanders, and even one or two guys who have improved on this design, overcoming the shortcomings I ran into. But, like many things, I ran out of time when the Challenge started.

Believe me, this forum will be the first place to hear when I get the thing up and running.

Not only for figured wood preservation, but evening up those annoying little edges that seem to crop up, no matter how carefully you glue edges together.

Glad to see we're thinking on the same wavelength!:grin:

R. Stratenstein

March 27th, 2012, 11:40 PM

If you look in the lower right corner of every post you will see three boxes. The one in the middle is multiquote. put your cursor over it and don't move your mouse, the name will pop-up.

Like someone else said though, you only use that for the initial quotes, the last quote has to be the normal quote button.

EDIT: ok, fine, there are four boxes in posts you've made yourself... but why would you quote yourself anyway? :rolleyes:

Thanks, Desmo. That's the missing info. Don't know why I didn't think to look down where the NORMAL QUOTE button was. (Except that maybe I'm stoopid. :roll:) Will be a happy multi-quoter going forward.

R. Stratenstein

March 27th, 2012, 11:42 PM

You are not alone here, and braver than I for asking. Thanks.

No problem, James, I wear my ignorance proudly.

Muzikp

March 27th, 2012, 11:43 PM

Guitar builder, I wasn't gonna do this, but ya forced my hand. You of course, are absolutely right. :lol:

This is not the first time I've had tearout problems on figured wood. Years ago, I completely chunked a beautiful piece of crotch walnut, literally tearing out big chunks from the face with my planer, new blades, light cut and all. I haven't been saving, but have been seriously scheming to get a thickness sander ever since then.

Then, several years back, a magazine published plans for a build-it-yourself thickness sander, with a 16" width. Perfect for most cabinet, and more to the point, guitar projects.

I knew there would be mods on their design. For starters, the magazine's version had you removing your tablesaw blade, installing a pulley, and using your tablesaw to power the sander. Didn't want to do all that teardown, so I got a 1.5 HP motor to power the sander. Right now, I'm having trouble with the tracking of the feed belt, due to circumferential inaccuracy of the PVC-and-wood disc rollers on which the belt runs. I was having trouble evening up the main roller (for the sandpaper), when I realized that the elevating and locking mechanism for the feed belt (on which work will ride under the sanding platen) can, if not carefully measured each time it's adjusted, allow one side or the other to sag lower than the other, sanding your workpiece in a wedge. The thing is made of MDF, which primes and sands down real cool so it will paint up to look like cast iron, but I've learned MDF is not good material to make machines out of. I may have to rebuild the sides with some cabinet-grade plywood for strength and accuracy.

I've found some blogs and posts on home made thickness sanders, and even one or two guys who have improved on this design, overcoming the shortcomings I ran into. But, like many things, I ran out of time when the Challenge started.

Believe me, this forum will be the first place to hear when I get the thing up and running.

Not only for figured wood preservation, but evening up those annoying little edges that seem to crop up, no matter how carefully you glue edges together.

Glad to see we're thinking on the same wavelength!:grin:

Please fill us in while you get it up and running. I would love to see the process for building a thickness sander and all the pitfalls and successes you have while doing it. I've already started roughing mine out in AutoCAD but I keep thinking it would be easier to just save and buy one, still not sure.

Colt W. Knight

March 27th, 2012, 11:44 PM

Colt, why the moisture (spit, water, etc?) Would you expect there would be compressed wood in addition to the torn out wood?

No compressed wood, but the wood that is there "may" swell a little or cause the fibers in there to stand up a litte. Without a doubt, you will have to sand that away, and if it doesn't sand away, I would drop fill. If the moisture does cause the fibers to stand up a little, it will look better cosmetically when you drop fill, IMO.

R. Stratenstein

March 28th, 2012, 12:05 AM

Please fill us in while you get it up and running. I would love to see the process for building a thickness sander and all the pitfalls and successes you have while doing it. I've already started roughing mine out in AutoCAD but I keep thinking it would be easier to just save and buy one, still not sure.

James, you may get to see more than you bargained for, but I'll document the process.

Absolutely no doubt it IS easier to just save and buy one, but a good one that's wide enough to handle the full width of a guitar body isn't cheap. Grizzly has one that's 10" wide and is basically an open-end design, but has a Y-shaped piece of metal on the open end, holding the drum rigidly parallel to the table. In an earlier catalog, it said you could take the metal brace off to sand a 20" wide piece, but it doesn't say that in the latest catalog. Don't know if that's an inadvertent typo, or if they discovered it didn't work well like that. That 10-incher is $415, next step up is their 18" open end sander at $925. Well over a thousand by the time you got it shipped home, and bought some sandpaper for it. Not cheap. They do have a 12" drum sander, closed both ends, but if it won't do a full guitar width, seems like a lot to spend $595 for not much improvement.

No compressed wood, but the wood that is there "may" swell a little or cause the fibers in there to stand up a litte. Without a doubt, you will have to sand that away, and if it doesn't sand away, I would drop fill. If the moisture does cause the fibers to stand up a little, it will look better cosmetically when you drop fill, IMO.

Thanks for the clarification, Colt. Makes perfect sense.

axedaddy

March 28th, 2012, 08:47 AM

Thanks, axedaddy. I'm keeping this one in my hip pocket pending a decision on finishing. I'm afraid epoxy would make spots that resist absorption of color, etc, but I guess if I put down a couple of sanding/sealer coats, and color over that, it wouldn't matter would it?

In my experience if you use enough saw dust the repair is not only invisible but it takes finish very well. You are correct about the sanding sealer.

axedaddy

March 28th, 2012, 08:48 AM

You are not alone here, and braver than I for asking. Thanks.

+1

OpenG Capo4

March 28th, 2012, 09:15 AM

Absolutely no doubt it IS easier to just save and buy one, but a good one that's wide enough to handle the full width of a guitar body isn't cheap.

Have you seen this?

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/tls/2923064332.html

http://images.craigslist.org/5L15H35M33J73N33Hfc3q6230a7ee32af18e5.jpg

I see similar machines on the local craigslist pretty often.

OpenG Capo4

March 28th, 2012, 09:20 AM

R. Stratenstein

March 28th, 2012, 08:36 PM

\
|

Not exactly "cheap" but similar machines at Woodcraft are well over a grand. I'm not sure whether that runs on regular single phase home power or not. I know thats a concern I always have when looking at tools.

No, I had not seen it. I've had such rotten luck with Craigslist, I don't peruse it very much. Not cheated or anything, just bad links, emails or calls never returned, etc. I may see if the guys still got it later this week. Been crazy here at work, and they've got my street dug up, where my driveway used to be is now a 25-ft. deep valve pit.

Anyway, that's a very nice machine, I saw one being demo'd. at the old Stone Mountain Tool Works several years ago, and it's fine. I was especially impressed that it does not (or the one they were using didn't) make a ridge in the middle when you're sanding down 32" panels.

I wanna say the thing runs on plain old 110 AC, but even if it's 220, I'm wired for that. As a homeowner machine, I wouldn't imagine they'd sell many if it required 3-phase. But like you apparently have, I've found what looks to be a spectacular deal on a really nice, heavy old piece of equipment, only to find it's something weird like 437V 3-phase.:shock:

adirondak5

March 29th, 2012, 07:41 AM

I have the Jet 16-32 , same machine but with a 4" dust port , it can be wired for 110 or 220 , for figured wood its fantastic .

R. Stratenstein

March 29th, 2012, 07:32 PM

I'm gonna call the guy about the thickness sander tomorrow--today's been a tee-total b-itch at work.

Man, I really hate it when deferred maintenance catches up with me.:mad:

Package of parts came in the other day for my random orbit sander, which had forgotten to random, and was orbiting about 15,000 RPM.

It's a nice DeWalt DW421 that a lot of woodworkers use. Probably one of my favorite tools, it just works good. With the vacuum hooked to it, no dust, little noise, and it does a great job fast. Well worth the $23 or so of minor parts to put into it. This will be the 2nd, maybe 3rd refurbish I've done. I've just been putting off the rebuild of this one. Can't afford to lay it on my Tele project without things working perfectly, tho.

So here's how it goes. With the patient sedated and on his back, use a #20 torx driver to remove the 3 screws holding the sanding platen/disk, whatever the heck it is.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1232/medium/IMG_4847.JPG

It comes off quite easily, revealing the only parts involved in making the thing a random orbit, instead of just an orbital sander. First, you have the white ring you can see in the sander body, then there's a big bearing in the middle of the shaft, mounted on an eccentric lobe of the motor shaft. (It's inside the triangle-shaped thing with the ears, we'll see more of it in a minute) The white ring is called the dust seal/brake, and it has to rub on the underside of the platen, creating some friction, for the eccentric/bearing assembly to rotate and oscillate, creating the random ordit action.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1232/medium/IMG_4849.JPG

Remove the center Torx screw from the end of the motor shaft, and the bearing and its carrier (the triangle thing with the ears) comes right off.
The carrier is some kind of cheap metal--zinc or pot metal, and is kind of brittle. You can see the chip I knocked off of it the last time I did this. I'll be more careful this time, using the proper tools, to separate the two halves of the bearing carrier.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1232/medium/IMG_4852.JPG

Here we see the bearing carrier half separated, along with the specialized tool used for the purpose. I was more careful with it this time.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1232/medium/IMG_4854.JPG

The bearing was pretty well ensconced in the other half of the bearing carrier, necessitating use of another highly specialized tool to press the bearing out of the carrier. You daren't pound the thing out with a drift or chunk of old axle, much better to use the right tool. . .

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1232/medium/IMG_4855.JPG

. . .which is called the Double-Socket, BFH bearing removal tool and technique. I was gentle with the BFH, though.

So, here we have it, ready for cleaning. Farewell old bearing, and thanks for the quadtrillions of happy revolutions!
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1232/medium/IMG_4856.JPG

So we apply some of the best cleaner to cut pitch, gum, old sawdust, oil, grease, and just about anything--petrosolvent-based brake cleaner. I hadn't noticed it before, but what the heck is "50-state formula?" Doesn't the stuff work in some states? Always seemed to work around here, and makes a great all-day deodorant, mouthwash, and wound cleaner.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1232/medium/IMG_4857.JPG

Once the cleaner has done its thing, the inside of the bearing carrier is dry and "frictiony", as in, it has a lot of friction. It needs a light lube, just for the assembly process. Grease, oil, and other materials are kind of risky, if they drip out of the sander onto your project, well, you can guess. . .

So I use what you should never, ever, ever, not even think about using around wood projects--Silicone lube! It should also be labeled "Finish Ruiner", and if you don't know what fish-eyes are, spritz a little of this on your next project before you varnish or finish it. So I use it very carefully, taking it outside to spray on a small piece of paper towel, that does not leave my hand until it's time to throw it away. That way, I won't inadvertently set it down on my bench top, where some slilcone could be transferred to a project.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1232/medium/IMG_4858.JPG

Now, it's time for the new bearing to meet its home for the next uncountable number of revolutions. Some guys would probably use the BFH and try to pound the assembly back together. Not me. Once again, I turn to the proper tool the manufacturer specifies for the job. That way, it always gets done right! With a light coating of the silicone lube on the bearing carrier, she slips together like , well, something well lubricated slipping into --oh, forget it.:oops:
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1232/medium/IMG_4860.JPG

Now we align the little tabs on the new dust seal/brake with matching slots on the sander's housing. There are two of them, and the seal snaps into place.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1232/medium/IMG_4862.JPG

We're almost home now. New bearing is in its housing, which is now screwed back onto the motor shaft, the dust seal is snapped into place, and now it's time to reinstall the platen.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1232/medium/IMG_4863.JPG

So we take the platen, wipe the dust off of it and D'oh, WAIT A MINUTE HERE ! Double D'oh, the old failing dust seal/brake has worn a spot completely through the metal of the platen into the high-quality plastic material underneath. Why's this guy smiling? Hey, kid, want me to wipe that smile off yer face?

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1232/medium/IMG_4865.JPG

Well, that's kind of consistent with the rest of the day. I'll get the part and put it on sometime later. I got new brushes for it too, put those on at the same time. I'll just start the screws in the bearing carrier so they don't get lost. Hear the wife coming in with the mail.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1232/medium/IMG_4866.JPG

Well, looky here. The day isn't a total wash after all! :razz::lol::razz::lol::mrgreen::grin::cool::cool:: lol::lol:

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1232/medium/IMG_4867.JPG

I truly intend to have something much more interesting next time I post. Thanks for looking.

RogerC

March 29th, 2012, 09:45 PM

I think you should get extra points for the tool refurb tutorial :mrgreen:

axedaddy

March 29th, 2012, 09:53 PM

I think you should get extra points for the tool refurb tutorial :mrgreen:

+1

R. Stratenstein

March 29th, 2012, 09:56 PM

I think you should get extra points for the tool refurb tutorial :mrgreen:

:lol:Me, too, but I have a sneaking suspicion that if I don't produce a finished guitar, a shop full of refurbished tools won't pull me thru.

R. Stratenstein

April 2nd, 2012, 10:23 PM

Well, actually, the template's up--the neck template is up for work next, which is part of what I did over the weekend. I did get the remaining part for my RO sander, but forgot the memory card for my camera and didn't get any shots of the new one, or of the brush inspection--old brushes were fine so I put the new set I got away for a rainy day. Boring stuff mostly.

I had already bandsawed the neck template out, so it needed to be ROSSed as the next step.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4869.JPG

And of course, mucho hand sanding. Master template needs to be perfect to make all those little working templates as good as can be. Thanks to flatfive's tip about scoring the line with a razor knife prior to sanding--with that, plus the clear layer of Krylon, fuzzing and obscuration of the line was minimized, and I got a pretty good template. Good enough, I decided, to save some time and use this one to produce my neck--I'll build a working template after the challenge is over.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4870.JPG

Last week I stopped by Highland Woodworking and picked up a card scraper. One of the tricks to sharpening the things is to file a nice flat along the edge, perpendicular to the main face of the scraper. I was rooting around for something in a rusty old tool box I found in my Dad's stuff and found a rusty, but serviceable file made specifically for sharpening scrapers! A little TLC with a brass brush, and some camellia oil, and it's ready for duty. Little stick-on price tag on the back of the package said 25 cents!

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4868.JPG

Got down to a little hand-sanding. One aid I solicited arose out of a misunderstanding of Ron Kirn's excellent fret leveling instructions. :lol: As luck would have it, I live fairly close to, my wife is from, and I occasionally visit clients in Elberton, Georgia. Elberton is not known for much, except that it is one of the biggest producers of monumental stone in the world. (That would be Granite tombstones to you and me) It is not hard to find scraps of stone all over the place of various sizes and in various states of completion. I found this in a rubbish pile outside a granite shed, a cutoff from somebody's tombstone. It's face is nicely polished, and with my limited machining skills cannot find flaws with a dial gauge of any significance whatsoever.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4876.JPG

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4877.JPG

I do not recall why, but I ordered 400 grit self-stick sandpaper. This would have worked fine, eventually, but I needed a little more action at that point. So I split a piece of 100 grit, shot the granite with some spray adhesive, and voila, I have a nice, flat, long 100 grit sanding surface. It weighs a good 65 lbs. or so, and is of course, "rock-solid"--no flex whatsoever. So I used it to help flatten out the sides of my neck template as I crept up on those lines.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4878.JPG
But I don't think I'll be picking it up to lightly rub across my fret surfaces!

Anyhow, finished up on the neck template, and test-fitted it in my working neck rout template. Perfect fit.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4879.JPG

. . . .except at the butt. Damn and %#$#@)(*&%% ! I'd screwed up the butt end of the template, and routed it so the bottom edge is not perpendicular to the sides.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4875.JPG
In the photo, you can see the pencil lines I made, showing how far off the bottom of the neck pocket is.

I couldn't imagine how I'd screwed this up so badly, I had Ron Kirn's master template screwed down to the MDF, so it couldn't have possibly slipped. So I got out the master template to see if it might offer any clues. Unfortunately, it did offer a big clue:

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4873.JPG

My working template is a perfect match for Ron's master template.

I tried to get both of them together in the same photo for illustration--might be a little hard to see, but on both the end is not perpendicular to the sides of the neck route pocket.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4871.JPG

So, I'm now wondering, is this something I've overlooked or done wrong? I've never seen a neck butt that has that shape, so any neck put into a pocket with the end like that isn't going to fit very well.

I used a file, mild rasp, and some sandpaper to clean up the end, so the neck fits better, but not as well as I'd like, and now I'm wondering about intonation, etc. I guess I'll measure carefully before I drill for string holes, to make sure I've got the right scale length. Don't think this is a fatal error, but something I'll need to remember when I cut more neck route templates.

So now it's time to lay out the neck. Among my original considerations was using bloodwood for the neck, with ebony for the fretboard. I think it would be a killer combination.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4881.JPG

However, my finishing plans include cherry and burgundy red. I think the bloodwood red would likely not fit in, anyway, as I have mentioned, the bloodwood has sentimental value for me, and I want to use it in a project where it will be the "queen of the ball", and the center of attention it deserves. I decided to save it for another project, and use a cutoff of the nice figured maple for the neck, still with the ebony fretboard.

Laid it out and bandsawed it.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4882.JPG

Carefully sanded up to the lines.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4883.JPG

And approached the dreaded routing with some trepidation, having been stung once before.

I did, of course, have my new Whiteside spiral bit as my ace in the hole, and I had really sanded close to the line everywhere, so taking my fate in my hands, set up the router--

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4886.JPG

COWABUNGA, BUFFALO BOB--That's as fine a tool as I've ever used. Absolutely perfect, not only is there no tearout, but the wood surface is like it's been scraped, and the wood figure is brilliant.

I don't know who first started praising the Whiteside spiral upcut bit, but thank you, thank you, thank you! It's a shame so much of this is going to be lost when the neck is profiled.

I used the newly-rebuild random orbit sander, and my granite sanding block to flatten and smooth the surfaces of the neck. I discovered two flaws that I hope don't give me too much trouble:

A stain, looks like maybe somebody splashed some crud or oil, etc. on the board:
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4887.JPG

and some tearout from the mill's processing of the board. I knew it was there, but the other side (face side) had the grain and figure I wanted, so I'll have to deal with it.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4888.JPG

Mixed up some maple sawdust and glue, heavy on the sawdust, please, and forced it into the voids. An old razor blade makes a great mini-putty knife.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4890.JPG
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4891.JPG

Put the neck to bed, in a safe place, to converse with drawings of its soon-to-be mate.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4892.JPG

Barncaster

April 2nd, 2012, 10:37 PM

Hey R,

Whatever you do, do not go backwards with that spiral bit or VERY bad things will happen. Trust me on this one! The build looks great!

Barncaster

R. Stratenstein

April 2nd, 2012, 11:11 PM

I've seen several different jigs for performing various operations on necks. My most immediate need is to route the slot for the 2-way truss rod I'll be using.

OpenGCapo4 recently showed some steps on his guitar build that showed how he built a neck box. I liked the versatility of it, in that by using inserts for the router to run on, he can produce flat routes or curved ones depending on the type of truss rod being used. I liked the idea, and decided to adopt (steal :shock: ) it.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4893.JPG
Here's the start of the box, with some of the parts cut and laid out, along with my router, so I could get exact measurements and a good, tight fit. The green stuff is some kind of high-density sheet plastic 1/4" thick. A client of mine had a big pile of scrap green stuff after installing a large conveyor--it's used under solid supports, where rollers can't be fit, as an anti-friction material. It feels kind of soapy, although not exactly like HDPE or UHMW PE. Maybe Delrin or some such. Anyway, I thought it would be a better surface for my router to slide on than splintery wood I'd sanded poorly, so I faced the wear surfaces with it.

Some of the green stuff had been draped over stuff out in the sun, and had taken on some waves. It flattened out pretty easily, especially after a turn under Mr. Granite block--:lol:

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4894.JPG

The height rails--the ones the router rides on to make flat or curved truss-rod routes, are removeable, but I didn't want them flopping around. So I made 3/4 inch rabbets on each side of the base, 1/4 inch deep, for them to fit into. With end blocks, they're pretty secure there. This will be more important when I make the arched rails, but won't hurt for the straight ones.

WARNING--OLE GUY WOODWORKER TIP AHEAD--

I have a couple of dado blades, or could have just used my table saw to nibble out the rabbets, but my little jointer produces great rabbets with minimal fuss, so I used it.

If you have a jointer, and haven't used it to make rabbets (that is, "grooves" in the edge of a board), check it out. It's simple, easier to set up that setting the thickness of a standard dado set, and cuts a clean dado (if you don't rush like I did, and cause chipping)

Most jointers have a dado shelf, like mine, shown to the far right of the board. It drops with the infeed table, and by adjusting the fence, and depth of cut, you can produce a rabbet of just about any size. Here you can see I'm closing in on my 1/4" deep by 3/4" wide rabbet.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4895.JPG

Here's what the set up looks like from above the jointer. Note the guard has been moved to the other side of the fence, to cover the larger portion of the exposed jointer head. This means the point of operation is now basically unguarded, and calls for your maximum attention and care. Take small bites, use push and hold-down blocks, and if anything doesn't seem right, stop and don't resume work until you figure it out and fix it.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4897.JPG

The necks will be held in place with at least one screw, probably through a pilot hole for a tuning machine, but also with screw clamps that come in through the sides and push against the neck opposite each other. To make those clamps, I'm using 1/4" all-thread rod and some tee nuts pressed into holes in the sides. As an added bonus, the router rails have holes drilled in them for the clamp thread rods to pass through, helping hold them in position.

First step is to cut the allthread rod.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4900.JPG

Clean up the threads, and screw a wing-nut almost to one end. The wing nut will become the "knob" to turn the threaded rod and adjust the clamping position. Split the end of the rod just above the wing nut with a hacksaw.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4902.JPG

I then spread the split ends with a cold chisel, partially peen the end down, and screw the wing nut as tightly as I can into the spread end.

Then using the vice's pointy thing on the anvil (I know it has a name, but I can't recall it) and a cold chisel, I upset the threads on the underside of the wing nut, trapping it in place, to become part of the shaft.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4904.JPG

It was getting late Sunday evening, with a good bit yet to do. I mocked up a setup minus the clamp rods for this shot:
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4899.JPG

WHY IT'S GOOD TO STOP WHEN YOU'RE TIRED--

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4906.JPG

You lose the ability to tell an A from a B, even though you marked them.

Also, you could install the "tee nuts on the wrong side of the fixture, so that tightening the clamp screws pushes the t nuts out of their holes. Of course, I didn't do that :oops: Not much. Grateful it was some little mistakes, and not big, electrically powered, bloody ones, so that's it for now. Next stop, complete the neck jig, get the neck routed, truss rod in, and get fretboard laid out and slotted.

Thanks for looking.
Rick

R. Stratenstein

April 2nd, 2012, 11:13 PM

Hey R,

Whatever you do, do not go backwards with that spiral bit or VERY bad things will happen. Trust me on this one! The build looks great!

Barncaster

Oh, oh, that sounds bad, like the cold, hard voice of bad experience. Hope not! Thanks for the tip, though.

Thanks for the kind words. Are you back up to 100% shop-ready following your surgery?

R. Stratenstein

April 3rd, 2012, 12:36 AM

Hmmm--the 25000KB capacity here on the TDPRI photo gallery looked plenty big when I started this thing, but obviously I'm posting too many pictures, or being too verbose, or probably both. I'm now at 16000K used, with only about 9000KB of capacity remaining.

One approach is minimize the photos I post, always an option, but it doesn't seem like much fun. I enjoy each and every photo everyone else posts. I assume that if I remove photos from the gallery, they will not appear in the Challenge thread anymore, so I guess I need to think about another host site for my pictures, at least have a plan in mind.

Since I'd prefer to spend what little money I have on guitar parts, tools, and wood, I'd rather not use a pay site, if I can avoid it. Any advice?

Barncaster

April 3rd, 2012, 12:44 AM

Oh, oh, that sounds bad, like the cold, hard voice of bad experience. Hope not! Thanks for the tip, though.

Thanks for the kind words. Are you back up to 100% shop-ready following your surgery?

Hey R,

Getting better by the day thanks and am shop ready!

Barncaster

Muzikp

April 3rd, 2012, 01:56 AM

Try www.imgur.com to host your images. The first 225 images are free. Nice jig by the way.

Ryden

April 3rd, 2012, 03:06 AM

Then using the vice's pointy thing on the anvil (I know it has a name, but I can't recall it) and a cold chisel, I upset the threads on the underside of the wing nut, trapping it in place, to become part of the shaft.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1233/medium/IMG_4904.JPG

That's a hardy, and I recommend www.tinypic.com (http://www.tinypic.com).
I have almost 700 photos there at the moment and it's free.

crazydave911

April 3rd, 2012, 06:07 AM

Not too confuse you with too many choices, but if you have a Gmail account, Picasa Web Hosting is a good option LINK (https://picasaweb.google.com). If your signed into Gmail, simply click on "Photos" on the top toolbar and sign in. You can upload from the website or directly from Picasa's photo editor if you have it installed (it's free). You get 1 gigabyte of free storage (regardless of number of hits :wink:) and can upgrade to more for a small fee (you'd have to be a VERY busy builder to exceed 1 gig). As a bonus, whether you use Picasa or just the website, you can edit the photos and tag them either place :smile:

My two cents :lol:

emoney

April 3rd, 2012, 06:34 AM

I use Photobucket and haven't encountered any issues as of yet. I use my iPhone for
taking pics, so I'm sure they're low-quality, smaller resolution, but to be honest, I've
never looked. I bet I have 8-9 albums, and take way too many pictures.

Of course, now that I've suggested this, I'll find out I'm at limit, lol. Loving the build, btw
so whatever you do, find a way around the issue if for nothing else but my sake!

RogerC

April 3rd, 2012, 08:58 AM

Nice neck rig, Rick. And I appreciate the "old guys woodworking tips" :wink:

nosmo

April 3rd, 2012, 09:07 AM

Wow - do you level your frets with that granite block? It must take you AND your dog to handle that!

R. Stratenstein

April 3rd, 2012, 05:41 PM

Hey R,

Getting better by the day thanks and am shop ready!

Barncaster

Good news! :razz:

R. Stratenstein

April 3rd, 2012, 05:44 PM

That's a hardy, and I recommend www.tinypic.com.
I have almost 700 photos there at the moment and it's free.

Thanks, Ryden , I knew that thing had a name but because I don't do a lot of blacksmithing (more's the pity), the specialized equipment names don't stay put in the old bean.

R. Stratenstein

April 3rd, 2012, 05:52 PM

Muzikp,Ryden, CrazyDave, emoney,

Thanks for the tips on photo hosting sites. Y'all are a great illustration of how the guys here always come through for you. I'll give them all a peek to see how easy they are for me to use. Galleries here couldn't be easier--I'm sorry to be filling my space up.

R. Stratenstein

April 3rd, 2012, 05:57 PM

Try www.imgur.com to host your images. The first 225 images are free. Nice jig by the way.

Nice neck rig, Rick. And I appreciate the "old guys woodworking tips" :wink:

Thanks for the nice words, guys. Of course, I have to acknowledge that it all comes from here in the first place.

Roger C, you shouldn't encourage me! Truthfully, I have always enjoyed and appreciated the little side-trips guys take from their builds, and I've learned a bunch from them sharing their knowledge. Sometimes, I run across stuff I'm doing that works especially well for me, or is an unusual approach, so I figured I'd share it. At worst, it'll bore somebody and they can scroll right past it, or switch to another thread if it's really bad.

R. Stratenstein

April 3rd, 2012, 06:13 PM

Wow - do you level your frets with that granite block? It must take you AND your dog to handle that!

Sure:cool: I'm a big strong boy, been taking steroids and workin out since I was 16, what's the problem?

Actually what's scary is that I bought a roll of 400 grit sandpaper and now I don't recall exactly what I had in mind at the time I bought it, so it just may be that I did think I was gonna use it for leveling frets. The instructions in the forum say to use a piece of granite countertop, NOT a piece of granite tombstone.

Last time I leveled frets, I bought a new 16" file that I thought was a light cut. It turned out to be not so light after all. It was dead flat, tho, so I used it. It certainly leveled the high frets fast, but the amount of re-crowning and polishing wasn't worth it. I need something new, may have to visit a counter top shop after all.

And alas, I don't have a dog any more. Maybe I can use your question to work on my wife some more so she'll let me get that little lab puppy I'm pining for. . . .:wink:

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/TomczakMedia/TomczakMedia0612/TomczakMedia061200005/676018-labrador-s-puppy-on-grass.jpg

nosmo

April 3rd, 2012, 06:43 PM

I love Labs. Wish I could have one, but working offshore, I'd have to buy a new one every other month! (Unless he could figure out how to feed himself.)

R. Stratenstein

April 3rd, 2012, 10:53 PM

I love Labs. Wish I could have one, but working offshore, I'd have to buy a new one every other month! (Unless he could figure out how to feed himself.)

Shoot, get one, man--Labs are water dogs, after all. I have little doubt if you took one out on a platform, he'd launch himself right off a 100' high platform to chase a tennis ball you threw. (And climb back up and be rarin to do it again!):lol:

R. Stratenstein

April 3rd, 2012, 11:39 PM

Hokay--

Sunday evening I discovered that I'd botched up the placement of the Tee nuts in my neck holding/routing jig, so first order of business this evening was to fix that.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1234/medium/IMG_4907.JPG

I used the all thread rod pieces (aka "clamp screws") to insert into the tee nuts and pull them out. Little disappointing to find how easily they came out, but better found out now, that while in the middle of a critical centerline route in a fine piece of neck wood.

Next I disassembled the box sides, unscrewed the green stuff from the sides (glad I didn't glue it together:idea:), and made a slight counterbore for the head of the tee nut to fit into, so the green stuff would fit flush up against the side. The photo I took wouldn't upload, sorry, but if you can imagine, the other side of the side pieces now look exactly like the side you can see here.

Anyway, I finished that job, reassembled the box, and it's ready to use to route the truss rod slot.

The glue/sawdust filler on the backside of the peghead was dry, so I sanded it down.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1234/medium/IMG_4910.JPG

The good news is that the tearouts are filled, but I'm not so happy with the contrast in color and texture. It may go away after finish sanding and coloring, I surely hope so. In any case, its on the back side of the head, so I can live with it if I have to.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1234/medium/IMG_4911.JPG

Laid out nut location (VERY CAREFULLY :cool:) and drew centerlines front and back.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1234/medium/IMG_4914.JPG

At this point, I also would have laid out the tuning machines, but although they will fit in the OEM holes laid out in the drawing, the keys are too close together, and it'd be a bish to tune, so I'm going to have to lay them out with just a smidgen more space between them.

In the process of measuring for centerlines and all, put my little dial caliper on the neck and found it is a little wider than I'd intended--right at 1-5/8, maybe a scoche wider, but as I recall, 1-5/8" is the original Tele nut width, yes?:confused: Anyway, it'll get worked down a little as I work out the neck.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1234/medium/IMG_4913.JPG

So now, I'm ready to lay out truss rod for the route in the neck. If I'd used the conventional one piece neck and standard truss rod, of course, everything is graphically, and dimensionally laid out in a number of places. But I'm using a 2-piece neck and a 2-way truss rod, with adjustment at the nut end.

My truss rod is from John Hildreth at Bitteroot Guitars, recommended by someone here a while back, and it's a great rod, very much like a Hot Rod.
I plan to install it with the adjustment rod up, next to the fretboard, which is backwards from Hot Rod instructions, but gives me more room to carve the neck from my already-thin neck stock.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1234/medium/IMG_4917.JPG

Here I'm trying to visualize where to place the truss rod, and the route for it, so the adjustment nut will be accessible, but not so close to the opening that I nick it when sanding the transition.

Anybody know of rules of thumb, or instructions, or other guidance I can use for this layout?

Thanks for looking,
Rick

glen smith

April 3rd, 2012, 11:55 PM

And alas, I don't have a dog any more. Maybe I can use your question to work on my wife some more so she'll let me get that little lab puppy I'm pining for. . . .:wink:

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/TomczakMedia/TomczakMedia0612/TomczakMedia061200005/676018-labrador-s-puppy-on-grass.jpg

He sure is cute, hard to resist!

nosmo

April 4th, 2012, 12:14 AM

R. Stratenstein

April 4th, 2012, 11:14 PM

Seems to me, if you install the truss rod with the end of the adjustment thingy under the nut, you wont hit it doing the transition. You might need a longer allen wrench to adjust it. Also, if you end the rout there, you only have to drill a hole a little bigger than the wrench rather than the full diameter of the adjustment nut.

I'm just thinking out loud here. I have absolutely no experience building guitars, but I'm learning more every day!

PS: My buddy's lab is one of the reasons we built the dog ramp last weekend. Talk about a water dog :lol:

Yup, your logic is irrefutable. Even if it's a little "too" deep in there, better than to have the chrome adjustment part sticking out where it shows, and worse yet, interferes with the transition.

Thanks for thinking this one out for me, nosomo!

R. Stratenstein

April 6th, 2012, 12:00 AM

Tonight I got a little bit of work done. Nosmo's post made sense to me, so I laid out the route with the end of the rod ending just under the nut, maybe a bit higher up the neck by a mm or so. (thanks, Nosmo :smile:)

Finished the neck jig box. Drilled some shallow recesses in the oak clamp pads, for the threaded rod ends to fit in, and had some of the adhesive sandpaper standing by, in case they wanted to slip on the maple, but they didn't.

Here's what the setup looked like just before routing.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1236/medium/IMG_4922.JPG

Something I was afraid might happen, did happen, and that is that the side clamps provided a little lift to the neck. I couldn't stand that, route depth is critical, so I rigged up a block, a short length of oak stick, and a clamp (orange one in center of bottom of photo) to hold down the end. I also took a cue from somebody else's build, and I apologize for not remembering, I think we all acknowledge the information overload we're all experiencing now, trying to tune in to everybody's builds. . ., but anyway--

I put down some blue tape to remind me where to stop routing. I came close to Sharpie-marking "Stop Here, Stupid", but was afraid it might bleed onto my neck. I also realized I could clamp a Quik-clamp on to the side of the box and it would make an acceptable positive stop.

The opposing screw threads made it easy to precision-center the router bit over the line. Here I've just about got it dialed in.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1236/medium/IMG_4918.JPG

So here I am, breezing along, router gliding down the ways, route looking dead center, giving the micro-adjust knob a little turn each pass to take small, delicate bites, and Whaaa--

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1236/medium/IMG_4923.JPG

My router has this little micro-adjust dial that telescopes from the bottom of the stop rod on the plunge mechanism. Makes it possible to dial extremely small increments, and really sneak up on a route depth.
However, the damned screw and knob came off in my hand. The screw had worked loose as I was turning it. Always something. Easily fixed with a small screwdriver, but jeesh--can't it just go smoothly sometimes?

Anyhoo, I finished up the slot, and the rod fit in pretty well. Certainly well enough for my purposes. It's straight, and as perfectly centered as I'm able to get it.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1236/medium/IMG_4924.JPG

Had to super-glue a bit of the shrink-wrap back on to the rod, where it had been scraped loose, no big deal.

I was certain I had a round-bottom, 3/8 diameter straight cutting bit, which is what is called for to seat the wider adjustment screw part of the rod. But when I got out my router bits, all I could find were straight cutting bits. Because the bottom of the route will show on the peghead, I don't want to risk using a square bottom one and have it look funny, so here's where it ends for tonight, until I can get the router bit I need.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1236/medium/IMG_4925.JPG

I was sorry to read tonight that Jack Wells dropped out of the Challenge. His excellent, clear, and clever build threads had a lot to do with sucking me in to this madness, and I enjoyed every minute of it. I know a lot of others feel the same way, and wish Jack the best.

Thanks for looking,
Rick

nosmo

April 6th, 2012, 08:19 AM

That truss rod jig is the shiznit! I like that alot. Did you make another set of side runners for the curved single truss rods?

RogerC

April 6th, 2012, 09:09 AM

That's some really good work, Rick. I get such a kick out of seeing how many different ways there are to tackle an issue. Your tr routing jig looks rock solid.

R. Stratenstein

April 6th, 2012, 11:25 PM

That truss rod jig is the shiznit! I like that alot. Did you make another set of side runners for the curved single truss rods?

Thanks, nosmo. Again, I have to credit several others here for the ideas I incorporated into it. I have not yet made the curved runners for single-action, curved truss rods, but intend to, possibly for my next build.

That's some really good work, Rick. I get such a kick out of seeing how many different ways there are to tackle an issue. Your tr routing jig looks rock solid.

Thanks, Roger. It's a relief to get it done. I was explaining it to my wife, ending up with, "and the end result is that you get this groove down the middle of the neck" :shock: It occurred to me, mainly from the look on her face, that this was one of those, "you mean to tell me you spent all that time and effort just for THAT?" Moments. . But I suppose, yeah, the answer is yes I did But it allows me to ensure that the route is perfectly centered in a tapered neck, and there are other ways that other guys do the routing, but this makes sense for me.

The jig is solid, and is easy to adjust, but I'm disappointed that I have to clamp down the ends to hold it solidly onto the jig's base and not "float". I may experiment with angling the Tee nut mounting holes, so they angle in and down, hopefully, pushing not only in, but down, too.

R. Stratenstein

April 6th, 2012, 11:31 PM

I took today off to get some things done, did my taxes, always a thrill :roll::sad:, and had to do some lawn mower shopping, my trusty mid-1980's Ariens tractor is slowly going to pieces (kind of like me), and parts are getting harder and harder to find. Will probably go spend the $$ tomorrow, hate to do it, but I've put it off about as long as I can.

I did get a little guitar building done this evening, I'll update tomorrow after I get a bit more work done. Hope to have a fretboard settling down to a long and close relationship with the top of the neck by this time tomorrow, at the very least.

R. Stratenstein

April 8th, 2012, 10:57 PM

Well, update got put off until today. Busy, busy time, but hopefully will settle down for a while.

I did get my 3/8" round-bottom router bit, and buzzed away a nice channel for the larger diameter adjusting head of the truss rod fit in. Unfortunately, I think I may have routed it a little too far up the peg head, it may look funny, or maybe I can put on some sort of cap. We'll see.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4926.JPG

Next up is laying out and drilling for the tuning machines:
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4933.JPG

I attached the neck template to the back of the neck, so it would be marked so I could drill from back to front. Penciled out the guide holes so I could lay out a straight line to align with the fence on the drill press.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4935.JPG

And drilled from back to front, using a brad point bit. I would like to have used a forstner bit, but I don't have one the same diameter as my Grizzly tuning machines.

Did I mention that my brad point bit is a cheap one? Good illustration here of a real good reason to drill from back to front--PROVIDED, that you have yet to thin the headstock. Slicing and sanding the headstock to proper thickness will eliminate the chip-out seen here. A good quality bit, sharp, would have cut instead of pushed this out.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4934.JPG

One more thing to add: the Grizzly tuners I got seem to be nice quality Taiwanese parts, but they're a little bigger than the spacing on the ehawley's template, based on OEM Fender tuners, will accommodate. So I added a little additional space between the tuner holes. Right now, it looks funny to me. This photo shows the template with the OEM holes, and my head with the tuners temporarialy installed for comparison. Always somethin', ain't it. Not the end of the world, and maybe its me--
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4937.JPG

So as we're making progress on the neck, want to make sure one important step doesn't get overlooked. Need to test the truss rod. Would feel kind of stoopid :oops: if I built a neck that ended up needing a little correction, only to find the truss rod doesn't work. :roll: Easy to do with a 2-way rod--put the rod next to a straight edge, and turn the wrench one way
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4928.JPG

Then the other:
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4929.JPG

Then straighten.

Remember Mr. Black, our first piece of wood to be milled? He's been waiting patiently, stuck to his two sidekicks, the pine boys, who kept him from getting sniped. Time for them to part company and get Mr. Black ready for his mission in life:

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4940.JPG

Half done.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4941.JPG

Neck, body, and fretboard are united for the first time together to get acquainted:
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4942.JPG

R. Stratenstein

April 9th, 2012, 12:33 AM

Feel free to skip this part if you want to, it's kind of theory, but it also has an extremely practical application, that was one of my bigger Aha-Bright light bulb :idea: moments when I stumbled on it years ago.

It's called Geometric Scale Layout. I have to give complete and full credit to Hideo Kamimoto who describes it in his excellent book, "Complete Guitar Repair"

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4970.JPG

There is more knowledge and understanding of the WHY's of guitar building in this book, than in any of the other books I have, and I have most of them, I think.

Anyway, on page 91 of the edition I have, is this little unassuming graphic:

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4951.JPG

It shows you how to, using only one simple mathematical calculation, and only two "ruler" measurements, how to lay out any scale length for any guitar, bass, or other fretted instrument you want to build. ANY!

It is based on the Rule of 18, which Kamimoto explains in the chapter on Equal-Tempered Tuning. It is the standard by which virtually all fretted instrument scales are laid out. Rather than go into all the tones, semi-tones, quavers and semi-quavers, etc., I'll just quote one short line from the book:

"Guitar tuning is based on the equal-tempered scale, in which the ratio of each successive semi-tone to the next is based on the twelfth root of two. The octave is divided into 12 equal semi-tones, and to achieve this end the frets must be precisely placed".

There is much more to be learned about where the rule of 18 comes from, and you can easily find it on the web and other good references. There are other methods, but from my research the Rule of 18 is the best method, and the Geometric Layout method is the best application of it.

So let's get started:

First, tape down a sheet of sturdy paper at little longer than the scale you intend to use, onto a smooth work surface. It is helpful if you can square it up with a table end so you can use a T-square and triangle, but it is not absolutely necessary.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4943.JPG

Draw a horizontal line across the paper, the same length, or longer, than the scale you're using. Again, it's helpful to use a T-square, but not required. On this line, mark the starting point, and the end point of your scale length. I designate the left end the nut, and the right end the saddle, but you can do it the other way if you want.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4945.JPG

Of course, since it's a Tele (and for most other Fender OEM necks) I'm using a 25.5 inch scale. This is the first of the promised two ruler measurements.

Another thing to note: for the purposes of this demonstration, I'm using way too thick and heavy lines and pencils, so it'll show up in the photos. This is precision work, you don't have to get anal about it, but use quality sharp pencils, and thin lines for maximum precision.

At the nut end of your base line (we'll also call it the scale length line), draw a perpendicular line right at the mark.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4946.JPG

Now for a little of the "higher math". First a confession. It is not the Rule of 18. It is actually the rule of 17.817. Some guitar builders have apparently used 18 successfully, but we want to be accurate, so we'll use the actual number which is 17.817, okay?

The high math is this: Divide the scale length by 17.817. That's it. So with our Tele scale of 25.5, we get the first fret distance of 1.43122. Give it a try if you want to. Run it through Stew-Mac's computer, look it up on a table, measure ehawley's template. The distance from the nut to the first fret is 1.43122, on a 25.5 scale guitar.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4952.JPG
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4953.JPG

So we need to draw a line on the scale length line at 1.43122 inches. Hmm--Sometimes, decimals aren't handy for layout. Even with a precision dial caliper.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4956.JPG

If only we had some way to convert crazy 5-place decimals to more useable divisions.

I have often called upon the handy conversion chart I inherited from my grandfather to smarten me up. Thanks, Pop!

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4955.JPG

Hmm--where would 1.43122 fall in fractional nomenclature?

Oh, yeah, right between 27/64 (.421875) and 7/16 (.4375). But is one closer than the other? Calculating it out, we see that 27/64 is 9 thousandths less than our measurement, and that 7/16 is 6 thousandths more than our exact measurement. This is plenty close enough to call it exactly between the two, so we'll try to lay out our line as close to 1 and "27-1/2" sixty fourths. Or if you want to be more accurate than necessary 1 and 55/128 inches.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4958.JPG

I don't have a scale with 128ths on it, but scales with 64ths are fairly common, so I'll use that to lay out my first fret location:
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4957.JPG
Again, notice how the fat lines make for much less precision than we'd like to have.

Now it gets really simple:

With your compass, put the point at the intersection of the nut line and the base (scale line), and the pencil point of the compass at the 1.43122 point you just marked. Swing an arc that goes up to the perpendicular line you drew at the nut:
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4959.JPG

Now, draw a straight line with your straightedge from the point where your arc intersects the perpendicular nut line, down to the saddle line. You'll end up with a long triangle as shown here:
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4962.JPG

This will be known as the tangent line.

The next two steps will be repeated for as many frets as you want (Minus the first fret which you just laid out.)

Draw another perpendicular line starting at the 1.43122 line on the base line, extending up to and intersecting the tangent line you just drew.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4963.JPG

Set your compass point on the intersection of the base line and the perpendicular you just drew, and the compass pencil on the intersection of the perpendicular and the tangent line. Scribe the arc from the tangent line to the base line. Where the arc intersects the base line is the 2nd fret layout point.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4965.JPG
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4966.JPG
As before, draw a perpendicular from the fret layout point you just found, extending up to the tangent line.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4967.JPG

And just repeat the strike-arc, draw perpendicular process until you have all your frets laid out.

As a reality check, when you reach the 12th fret, measure back to the nut. The distance should be pretty close to exactly half the total scale length, in our case, with a 25.5" scale, the measurement should be 12.75".

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/1237/medium/IMG_4968.JPG

Because of our fat, sloppy lines, we were about 1/8" off at the 12th fret, but done carefully, with sharp pencil points and thin lines, it can be done very accurately.

The beauty of this method is that it eliminates tedious precision measurements from each to each fret, instead substituting a simple, repetitive mechanical process.

And if you lay it out on an aluminum or brass strip, you can make your own fret layout template for any scale you can dream of!

I want to thank my son, Richard, who was home for Easter weekend and his Mom's birthday, for helping me with the photography and layout of this section. I hope it's useful for at least a couple of you.

Thanks for looking,
Rick

glen smith

April 9th, 2012, 01:09 AM

Very well explained Rick. Thank you.

JayRobIBZ

April 9th, 2012, 01:31 AM

FYI, converting decimals to fractions is as simple as multiplying the decimal by the denominator of the fraction you wish to obtain. .5, for instance, expressed in 8ths would be .5 x 8 = 4. The 4 would go over the 8, giving you 4/8.

In your case, 1.4312173 expressed in 128ths would work like this:

Subtract the 1, since we know it is representing one whole inch.

Multiply .4312173 by 128. It equals 55.1958144. If 128ths is our degree of accuracy, we would round down to 55/128ths.

Add the 1 back into it to reach your final measurement of 1 55/128.

R. Stratenstein

April 9th, 2012, 02:08 AM

Understood, but felt it might be confusing to specify a measurement like "1 and 55.1958144 one hundred twenty eighths of an inch". Thought it might be more clear to show on a standard industrial chart with more or less common and familiar fractions specified in sixteenths and sixty-fourths, where our target dimension falls, plus the practical consideration of obtaining a scale graduated in the necessary fractions. In my experience, 64ths is about as precise as you can go manually laying out dimensions, and then it's quite difficult. But it is adequate for laying out fret locations.

R. Stratenstein

April 9th, 2012, 02:09 AM

Very well explained Rick. Thank you.

Thanks, glen. I was hoping I hadn't made a mash-up of it. It really is pretty simple once you do it, and get a feel for how it goes.

JayRobIBZ

April 9th, 2012, 02:14 AM

Sorry if that sounded like I was directing the comment solely at you. I just thought it might make a useful appendix to what you had said earlier.

kwerk

April 9th, 2012, 04:05 AM

Man, sorry, but this is living proof imperial measurements are patently cumbersome.

I know it's all about what you're used to, but metric is just so, so much simpler.

DeepSouth

April 9th, 2012, 05:24 AM

Man, sorry, but this is living proof imperial measurements are patently cumbersome.

I know it's all about what you're used to, but metric is just so, so much simpler.

Amen to that brother. I'm going through the same thing. It's like going back to the middle ages.

Davecam48

April 9th, 2012, 05:57 AM

emoney

April 9th, 2012, 06:29 AM

Wow, Rick, that tutorial was spot on! Thanks more than I can say in words, for that!

nosmo

April 9th, 2012, 08:37 AM

That is very interesting. The best part is, once you lay out the first fret, you don't really have to worry about calculating out to .0000? for the other frets.

Nice lesson.

RogerC

April 9th, 2012, 08:37 AM

Thanks for posting that, Rick. Even I could follow it... and that's really saying something when math is concerned :lol:

R. Stratenstein

April 9th, 2012, 11:17 PM

Sorry if that sounded like I was directing the comment solely at you. I just thought it might make a useful appendix to what you had said earlier.

Not a problem at all. I did not take it that way. You are absolutely right, but as I said, for somebody who's new to this stuff, all the decimal places I thought might get confusing, so I tried to put it terms that I, a total math numbskull, might understand. Which brings me to Kwerk's comment:.

Man, sorry, but this is living proof imperial measurements are patently cumbersome.

I know it's all about what you're used to, but metric is just so, so much simpler.

As Luddite American as I am, sometimes, metric just makes sense. This is one of those times. I'm pretty sure that if it weren't for the enormous stock of Imperial measurement tools already out there, change over to metric could be done and over with, crying and b-itching included, in about 6 months, and nobody'd mind a bit any more.

R. Stratenstein

April 9th, 2012, 11:32 PM

I've been using the geometric method for fret spacing for a long time with success, but I had to order some stuff from Stew Mac about 6 weeks ago and I thought I'd get a fret scale ruler thing as well. Put the ruler up against the last guitar I built and was pleasantly surprised, the variation was less than a poofteenth all over which pleased me and annoyed me at the same time for shelling out about $20 for another ruler, but it has a couple of othe scales on it as well sooooooo suck it up!
For success doing it that way, a very good compass is a must, as well as finely sharpened pencils.

Glad to hear the comparison with the Stew-Mac ruler was so close! Not many of us can achieve accuracy to the poofteenth degree !! You do have to be careful with all layouts and measurements, and as you say, keep very sharp pencils, and use the best equipment you can get your hands on, but it does work, and is very accurate. When I'm doing it for "real" (and not just for demo like I did the other day), I also use several lamps so I have really bright lighting, and have sometimes used magnification, like that visor thing that Dan Earlewine wears all the time.

Wow, Rick, that tutorial was spot on! Thanks more than I can say in words, for that!

Thank you for the kind words, emoney. If I can save a couple of guys a few bucks on specialized rulers, or show how to lay out frets for your own scale length, I achieved my goal.

Thanks for posting that, Rick. Even I could follow it... and that's really saying something when math is concerned :lol:

Roger, you're selling yourself short, but as a fellow math cripple, I understand, and tried to simplify it down to the least maths possible.

R. Stratenstein

April 9th, 2012, 11:39 PM

That is very interesting. The best part is, once you lay out the first fret, you don't really have to worry about calculating out to .0000? for the other frets.

Nice lesson.

BINGO ! :lol::lol::lol: That's per-zactly what caught, and held my interest the first time I saw it. I had done exactly one neck layout, as carefully as I could, measuring fret to fret to fret, and praying I hadn't made any mistakes in converting the decimals to fractions I could find on a rule, when I found this method in Hideo's book. It was like a cool spring to a man dying in the desert. Once you calculate out the first fret space from the nut, strike that arc, and draw your tangent line, it's a completely mechanical process, with no further calculations necessary, and if you are careful in your layouts and drawing, much less chance for error, IMHO!

Thanks for the compliment, I appreciate it> :mrgreen:

kwerk

April 9th, 2012, 11:46 PM

R. Stratenstein

April 10th, 2012, 12:19 AM

My next project is to make a baritone neck for my first ever tele build. The original was also my first neck, and it wasn't up to scratch. I destroyed the neck and put the body on the backburner.

I'm gonna use this method, I think.

Give it a shot on your baritone neck. Of course, the 17.817 is a ratio, so it works just fine with metric as it does (or does not!) with Imperial measurements. Not sure what the scale length would be for a baritone neck, but the beauty of this method is that it really doesn't matter--it will work with any scale length you need.

lupowitz

April 12th, 2012, 07:47 PM

Sorry to go off-topic, good luck with your promising build, but I just noticed, that weasels ripped your flesh!
Oh no!
I hope your guitar won't want to kill my mama!

R. Stratenstein

April 12th, 2012, 09:33 PM

Yes, unfortunately, Weasels Did Rip My Flesh. Must be the razor! I am building a nice guitar that rather than kill your mama, will play in Joe's Garage, maybe Dweezil will buy it!

R. Stratenstein

April 12th, 2012, 09:43 PM

I saw somewhere on the forum on a post (not sure if it was the challenge or not) somebody wondering if their exposure to ebony dust may have caused an allergic reaction.
I'm wondering that myself today. I woke up with a sore throat, after sawing fret slots into my ebony fretboard yesterday evening. Sore throat got worse over the course of the day, and I'm feeling kind of run-down, and still have sore throat.
Other potential causes include mowing lawn yesterday in very breezy conditions, which blew big clouds of cut grass, dust, weed trimmings, et. al. all over me and in my breathing zone, and of course, the annual pollen attacks we've been "enjoying" here in Atlanta for about the past 3 weeks. So it may not be the ebony at all.

I had hoped to post a bunch of progress photos this evening, but I have to be in the office early tomorrow AM for meeting, and am feeling rotten, so it's off to bed for Bonzo. Hope to get some serious work done, and post, over the weekend.

Meanwhile, if anyone else has suffered sore throat, or other symptoms thought to be the result of exposure to ebony dust, let me know. Also, if you know whose post it was that referred to wood dust irritation, let me know, and I can compare notes with him.

Scatter Lee

April 12th, 2012, 09:53 PM

yes, ebony dust is poison

Nick JD

April 12th, 2012, 10:02 PM

This list kinda makes you think woodwork needs a HAZMAT exposure suit, but it does make interesting reading.

http://www.ubeaut.com.au/badwood.htm

The whole natural = okay is often leaned on too much. There are a lot of "natural" things that'll kill you before you can get to the phone.

R. Stratenstein

April 12th, 2012, 10:24 PM

Thanks for the response, guys, I was kinda thinking along those lines. I'll definitely wear a dust mask for the rest of the ebony work. I understand that even Norm Abram had to have some serious sinus surgery due to wood dust problems.
I have wanted, but put off one of those full-face mask filtered-air (self-contained blower) respirators because of the cost. Need good face mask/resp. for shooting nitro, too--will make some safety supply house very happy, soon.

emoney

April 12th, 2012, 10:36 PM

DesertGroomer

April 12th, 2012, 11:00 PM

RogerC

April 13th, 2012, 12:05 AM

Sorry to hear that you're not feeling well, Rick. Hope you're back to normal soon. Just for the record, I wouldn't think that sawing frets slots would kick up that much dust or kick it up very aggressively. I'd lean more on the side of it being the other allergens you mentioned. Still, it's always wise to wear some sort of respiratory-saving device when you're in the shop. I just went to Lowes and got some of those cheap, fiber dust masks. I'm not spraying anything, so they worked to keep the saw dust at bay.

Nick JD

April 13th, 2012, 01:25 AM

These are fantastic.

http://store.contractor-pro.com/images/3M%206000%20Series%20half%20face%20respirator.jpg

They take the dust filters or carbon cartridges for organic solvents. About $40.

Only thing you need to do is keep it in a sealed container (I use a tupperware-type container) as the carbon filters will not last if they spend 24/7 filtering the workshop's air.

With solvent filters:

http://www.insituconservation.com/uploads/images/products/personal_protection/face_masks/reusable_face_masks_3m_/3m_6000_half_face.jpg

glen smith

April 13th, 2012, 01:52 AM

Yes, definitely protect your breathing system. After ten years of wood/epoxy canoe and kayak building I am suffering from emphysema and must be very careful.

lupowitz

April 13th, 2012, 03:56 AM

Yes, unfortunately, Weasels Did Rip My Flesh. Must be the razor! I am building a nice guitar that rather than kill your mama, will play in Joe's Garage, maybe Dweezil will buy it!

I'm relifed, thanks!:razz:

rcole_sooner

April 13th, 2012, 02:54 PM

I hope your sore throat gets better, or got better. I am on the 4th day, of a very bad one. I don't like it any.

I actually went to the Doc, he said it was Pharyngitis (sore throat :lol: ), but he gave me some meds. I hope they kick it in the butt this weekend.

Muzikp

April 13th, 2012, 03:14 PM

Barncaster

April 13th, 2012, 06:03 PM

I think working with ebony and cocabola is like having a pet bear. Sure they are neat and all your friends will envy you, but one day it will rip your head off (or give you a sore throat, whichever the case may be).

Hey Muzikp,

Tell me about ebony! When I started scraping my top the other night, I had to re-edge my scraper every 4 passes or so. Unbelievable! BUT, the results are stellar! As they say, patience grasshopper.....

Barncaster

R. Stratenstein

April 13th, 2012, 08:03 PM

Quick question, Rick:
I found amazing the geometric method you explained, and thank you for the tutorial. Since I do not have the original book to look it up, did the author really use the word "tangent" to describe that line?
I'm curious, because unless it was meant simply as a name, it's not really tangent to anything drawn on that drawing (A tangent to the arch at the perpendicular line would be parallel to the base line, not slanted to the bridge point)

Get better soon!
Rico

As Ed McMahon used to say to the Great Carsoni, "You are correct, sir!" Good spot, Rico.:razz:

The author does use the term "tangent line", and I've no doubt his meaning is that this line is thought to be tangent to the arcs you strike, especially the first one, which defines the position of the tangent line at the nut.

I think technically, the tangent line is tangent to the arc, however, as you observed, NOT at the point that the perpendicular line intersects the arc.

In fact, now you've got me wondering if it's possible for the tangent line to intersect with the arc AND the perpendicular line at the same point at all. At the microscopic level, wouldn't the tangent line hit the arc just a bit in front of the perpendicular?

In any case, the nature of tempered tuning, plus the unavoidable mechanical inaccuracies that creep into the layout and fabrication process make the slight inaccuracy created by the "not-really-tangent-line" a moot point, IMO.

Thanks for the well-wishes, and again for the guide.

Rick

R. Stratenstein

April 13th, 2012, 08:15 PM

I've found too, that a lot of these toxic woods have a way of "wearing you down", so-to-speak.
You may not feel the irritation the first or second time you're breathing in the dust, but
by the 3rd, 4th time, etc., you start to feel exactly those symptoms you've mentioned.
Cocobolo has been my Kryptonite and you're correct, we all need to invest in a quality
respirator.

Sorry to hear that you're not feeling well, Rick. Hope you're back to normal soon. Just for the record, I wouldn't think that sawing frets slots would kick up that much dust or kick it up very aggressively. I'd lean more on the side of it being the other allergens you mentioned. Still, it's always wise to wear some sort of respiratory-saving device when you're in the shop. I just went to Lowes and got some of those cheap, fiber dust masks. I'm not spraying anything, so they worked to keep the saw dust at bay.

These are fantastic.

http://store.contractor-pro.com/images/3M%206000%20Series%20half%20face%20respirator.jpg

They take the dust filters or carbon cartridges for organic solvents. About $40.

Only thing you need to do is keep it in a sealed container (I use a tupperware-type container) as the carbon filters will not last if they spend 24/7 filtering the workshop's air.

With solvent filters:

http://www.insituconservation.com/uploads/images/products/personal_protection/face_masks/reusable_face_masks_3m_/3m_6000_half_face.jpg

Yes, definitely protect your breathing system. After ten years of wood/epoxy canoe and kayak building I am suffering from emphysema and must be very careful.

I hope your sore throat gets better, or got better. I am on the 4th day, of a very bad one. I don't like it any.

I actually went to the Doc, he said it was Pharyngitis (sore throat :lol: ), but he gave me some meds. I hope they kick it in the butt this weekend.

Hey Muzikp,

Tell me about ebony! When I started scraping my top the other night, I had to re-edge my scraper every 4 passes or so. Unbelievable! BUT, the results are stellar! As they say, patience grasshopper.....

Barncaster

Thank all of you for the well wishes and suggestions. RcoleSooner, hope you're feeling better by now.

My condition has taken on the common pattern for me, for a common cold. Throat's a little better, but lots of drainage (sorry--approaching TMI:roll:), still feeling run down, etc. About 50% of the time it'll develop into a respiratory infection and need some RX. Hope not. But while this may not be wood-dust related, I'm not going to wait until I have that problem, gonna start using resp. protection.

And Barncaster, glad I'm not planning to scrape any ebony! That's some scraper wear!:shock:

DesertGroomer

April 13th, 2012, 08:45 PM

R. Stratenstein

April 14th, 2012, 10:28 AM

No, by definition a tangent is a line external to a curve, that share only ONE point with each other, and that could only happen in this case by being perpendicular to the radius at any point of the circumference. The difference is negligible for this application, I was just surprised that the author was kind of reckless with the name (And it's being slow at work!!!)

On the respirator issue, we had a guy at our woodturning group that bought a powered Triton full face respirator. It gave us hours of making fun of him, but in the end I think he will be the one carrying us to the X-Ray room. He swears it was the best thing he ever had, not only filtered air but full face shield and ear protection all-in-one, and not uncomfortable or restrictive (again, according to him, I never tried it on, it was kind of a personal item)

I've never done wood turning, but from watching Norm and others do it, looks like you unavoidably blast a stream of cuttings, dust, etc. right into your front, including face. The full-face blower type respirator makes perfect sense in that regard.

Other than the cost, my only reservation about the full-face filtering mask with the powered blower is that it looks like (at least some of them) there's a waist belt that also has to be worn with the battery pack, blower, and filter pack. Not appealing, but infinitely more appealing than respiratory system failure. I also wonder about battery life. Might have to spring for two or more sets of batteries, with attendant $$$.

R. Stratenstein

April 14th, 2012, 12:55 PM

Today's a beautiful Saturday morning, and before I head down to the shop, I"m going to post what I did last week.

Time to get some fret locations laid out. First step is to lay out nut location and width, using nut blank. I intentionally make the slot a bit narrow, because it's fairly easy to sand the nut a little thinner, which happens anyway when it's polished up. The nut slot also could be filed a little wider, but at risk of tearing out the edges of the slot.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2014%20April%20Upload/IMG_4972.jpg

Having determined that the ehawley neck prints are accurate, I decided to use them as a fret layout pattern. Scribed a centerline down the fretboard blank, then carefully extended the nut layout lines from the neck print with a sharp pencil, so they'll extend out from the neck outline, as the fret lines do.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2014%20April%20Upload/IMG_4975.jpg

Carefully tape down pattern along the center line of the fretboard, with lower edge of the nut layout aligned with the layout already on the fretboard.

To lay out fret locations as accurately as possible, I decided to use sharp divider points to put little prick marks on the smooth fretboard. No need to worry about sharpening pencils, etc.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2014%20April%20Upload/IMG_4978.jpg

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2014%20April%20Upload/IMG_4981.jpg

Works great! The little pinpricks, about half the diameter of the saw kerf, show up clearly under bright light, and make for precise placement.
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2014%20April%20Upload/IMG_4983.jpg

But, as always, Murphy and his damned law stalks us all. . .:cry:

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2014%20April%20Upload/IMG_4988.jpg

D'OH ! That little shiny object you see embedded in the wood inside the circle, is the broken-off point of the divider!! DANG!
You can see where I've tried to carefully dig it out with the remaining divider point, but decided I'd need it to do the rest of the layout, so I used an old nail set I ground a point on to do the (hopefully careful) digging. Can't leave it in, I'm afraid it would divert the saw's path, not to mention ruin the saw's teeth.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2014%20April%20Upload/IMG_4989.jpg

Success! Without more damage than will be erased by the saw kerf, I HOPE!
You can see the little troublemaker just in front of the nail set's point in this photo.

Still can't help but think about somebody's statement that their builds are an interesting progression of problem and screw-up fixes. So very true! Wouldn't be as much fun without 'em, right? :roll: I'll keep telling myself that, maybe eventually I'll believe it.

So, anyway, I got all the frets marked, and put little pencil tics on the pinprick holes, so I wouldn't mistake something else, and saw a fret slot in the wrong place !

Next step is to ensure that my fret saw, never before tried, is the right thickness. It's one of those Harbor Freight Japanese pull saws. I used a strip of pine, and tested the HF saw, and an old dovetail saw I inherited from my father in law.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2014%20April%20Upload/IMG_4996.jpg

Turns out that the Japanese saw is a bit tight, while the dovetail saw is a bit loose. I tried fret wire in both. Rather have tight slots than frets falling out, and I'd prefer not to have to glue them in place, so I'll go with the HF saw. By the dial caliper, it's within .002" of where it's supposed to be, anyway.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2014%20April%20Upload/IMG_4991.jpg

Next, I needed a miter box to cut straight, and perpendicular. There are so many excellent home-built examples, plus the commercial ones available, but time's getting short, so I put together a minimalist box, with notions that I'll come back later and improve it.

The box basically has hold-downs for the fret board, straight sides, and a kerf lined with the green stuff for slipperiness.

Here's a conceptual lay out with all the major parts in place, but not yet fully assembled. Included of course, is the obligatory bottle for the precious ebony dust, for correction of the inevitable mistakes.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2014%20April%20Upload/IMG_4995.jpg

One major thing missing from my set up is a depth gauging device. Looking at the tang on my fret wire, and the saw tooth depth, I decided as a preliminary gauge, I'd just watch the teeth entering the wood, and when they were completely covered, but no deeper, stop for now. As with most builds, I'm counting on having to deepen the slots after the fretboard is radiused.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2014%20April%20Upload/IMG_5001.jpg

With post-radiusing slot cutting, plus one-piece neck construction in mind, I did size the box's side rails tall enough to accommodate a full neck thickness. (Barely) I have small hands, so it's unlikely I'll ever build a Fatboy neck, but you never know. . .
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2014%20April%20Upload/IMG_4993.jpg

(Sorry, I didn't notice the photo hadn't been rotated before I uploaded it.)

Started on the nut slot, cut each side, then a center cut to help clean it out when the time comes. Despite the De-Stay-Co clamp, plus additional clamps, the smooth ebony wanted to slide on the bottom of the box, and I had to hold the ebony in place to keep it from sliding with the saw strokes.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2014%20April%20Upload/IMG_5002.jpg

When I built the box, I ran it through the tablesaw upside down, to give me a larger saw kerf in the middle, then used a bunch of clamps, squares, etc. to hold the saw in actual position, perfectly perpendicular to the side rail, while I marked and screwed the green stuff in place to make the precision kerf slot that would guide the saw. It seems to have worked pretty well, it saws from both sides in exactly the same place.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2014%20April%20Upload/IMG_5004.jpg

So here's where I left it last week. It was getting late at night, and I had to meet with a client early the next day. Got to about half way down the neck, was better because both De-Stay-Co clamps were holding it down, but still needed to hold it.

One thing I noticed is that I supposed because of the straight blade of the saw blade (no kerf in the teeth) the saw would bind badly. I remedied this by starting the cuts with the thicker dovetail saw, and got deeper with the Japanese saw. Seems to work well, and anyway, it might save me from having to use a triangle file to taper the fret slots for easier fret insertion.

One thing I'll need to watch is hammering force. I left a couple of pretty distinct dings in the pine test piece, of course I wasn't trying to be careful, and the ebony is much harder than the ebony, but I still don't want any dents in it.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2014%20April%20Upload/IMG_4997.jpg

Well, let's see how much further I can get today before this cold smacks me down, or time runs out.

Thanks for looking,
Rick

R. Stratenstein

April 15th, 2012, 11:34 PM

Got down to the shop in the late afternoon, after a nice nap (Hey, I'm allowed, I'm sick!:mrgreen: ) and got back to work. Decided I'd be smart, and broke out the most important equipment to finish the fret slots:

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5022.jpg

I hate breathing through the things, but I don't want to get another dose of ebony dust, if that's what's causing my current malady, or aggravate it, whatever it is.

Too bad I'm not at the finishing stage, we had some nice weather Friday and Saturday for it.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5006.jpg

Anyway, with the fret slots completed (this stage anyway), it's time to attach the fretboard to the neck.

This neck, my first entire neck, has so far taught me two things:
1) Keep all the parts square and rectangular as long as possible, it's much easier to align things that aren't taperered.
2.) Several of the builders in last years' challenge built several necks when they started. That was smart. I now know why.

So now I have a square (rectangular, actually) fretboard with the fret slots perpendicular to the edges of the board. If I glue it so that one edge of the fretboard is flush with one edge of the tapered neck, my fret slots will be angled. I did mark center lines on both sides of neck and fretboard, which was a big help, but square edges on both would have been better (easier). I now have to align the center of the fretboard with the center of the neck.

One problem I had is that when routing the access trough for the truss rod nut, it removed the center line drawn on the neck. I put a piece of masking tape over the trough, and extended the center line. I also placed the masking tape so the fretboard, when aligned perfectly with the edge of the tape, would place the nut slot exactly in position. You can see where the tape is a little wrinkled where I cheated the exact position of the nut, then clamped it down.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5024.jpg
I also had to align the butt end of the neck, using centerlines drawn on the underside of the fretboard, and on the butt end of the neck.
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5026.jpg
With everything clamped in place, I decided I wanted to not risk the fretboard slipping on the neck. I know some of the better builders on the forum here don't do it, and scoff at the need to do so, but I have had many glued pieces slip and slide, sometimes wildly and unmistakeably, and sometimes so subtly that you don't notice it until it's too late, and the project you're building is toast. Two little brads are small enough price to pay for peace of mind in this regard. I found a small drill bit that was a bit smaller than the 18 gauge brad diameter, and drilled pilot holes in the nut groove, and down at the butt end of the neck.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5027.jpg

OK, yes, there is a pilot hole dead center in the nut slot, careless, antihistimine-befuddled brain forgot there is a truss rod there, but I did notice when metal chips started coming up the hole, and stopped in time. There's a small divot in the top of the truss rod nut that nobody will ever see or know about. Unless you tell on me. I did successfully manage to drill a pilot hole off to the side, though.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5028.jpg
I had run out of truss rod to drill into down at the dusty end of the neck.

The anti-skid brads also make great registration pins for the reassembly when glue is applied. Pulled the fretboard up and applied the special anti-rattle compound for the truss rod. It's a tight fit, but I have an old Gretsch with a rattly truss rod, and I don't like that.
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5030.jpg

Three dabs'll do ya. Older guys may get that. I also remembered to tape the edges of the neck, so glue runout wouldn't stain the edges of the neck.

Per SOP, applied strip of masking tape over the truss rod slot, to eliminate or minimize glue running into the slot, potentially interfering with the truss rod action. Slathered on a good coat of Titebond I, pulled off the masking tape strip, and assembled it, using the brads to align it. Tapped brads in slightly, then clamped the thing up.
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5031.jpg

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5032.jpg
I thought about using cauls to provide even, firm clamping, but decided the ebony and neck were flat enough to "risk" clamping with the forest of Quick-Grips. That's all of them I own, wish I had more. Love 'em.

Left the neck to cook overnight.

DesmoDog

April 16th, 2012, 12:04 AM

R. Stratenstein

April 16th, 2012, 12:59 AM

Needed to do some planting my wife needed, and the shovel work just about did me in, so I got a late start.

While giving the neck assembly a bit more time for the glue to cure, I decided to try and take care of the chip-out on the surface of the maple body cap. Per Colt W. Knight's suggestion, I dabbed a bit of water on the worst ones, to try and swell them as much as possible, making it less necessary to grind down everything around them. Seemed to help.

I hated to do it, but attacked it first with some 40 grit for real removal. The random-orbit sander with its new parts was really aggressive, and I could see good progress quickly.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5037.jpg

Next came 60 grit, then 100 (did not have any 80), and finally 150 grit. That's as fine as I'm going to make it until just before final finishing.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5038.jpg
I found some new (to me, anyway) sanding disks at Home Depot, unusual hole pattern, but they seemed to work very well. Anybody else have any experience with these?
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5040.jpg

The poplar on the back also had a few scuffs and dings, so I cleaned up the back surface along with the front. From now on, I've got to be really careful about where I place the body, and what I place on it. We got a new wicker coffee table for our porch that came packed in some thin styrofoam sheets and some sheet padding stuff that's ideal for soft guitar wood to sit.

Having finished with the front and back sanding, I decided to go ahead and trim the maple cap flush with the body. Of course, it would have made better sense to do this before I sanded the front, in case I got any scratches or dings on the front while doing the trimming. Luckily, I got away with it, but at times I think you almost need a checklist to get these things in the right order.

First order of business was to ROSS/BOSS the overhanging maple to a minimal ledge, to make it easier for the trimmer bit, and to minimize the chance for grabbing and tearout. I ran into trouble here right away:

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5041.jpg

In case you've ever wondered what it looks like when one of your sanding drums gets loaded to the point where it becomes glazed, and won't clean up any more with the gum block, here it is. You can also tell, because instead of cleaning up the burn marks made by the bandsaw, it makes even more burn marks, and removes almost no wood.
Note to self: Order new sanding cylinders. For now, though, swapped ends of the cylinder, and got it cleaned up.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5044.jpg

I set up my router table with the Whiteside spiral bit, and let it do its magic. And magic it was--no problems whatsoever. Some places on the sides of the maple are so nicely figured, I thought about doing a faux binding on it, but heck, I've bought the stuff, might as well go for real. Maybe next time for faux.

Time to get back to the neck. Came out of the clamps looking good. I pulled the brads out, saw there was little glue runout, and the joint looked good all along the neck. Time to set up for trimming the ebony.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5046.jpg

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5047.jpg

I bandsawed very close to the maple, so I could go directly to the router to trim it flush. But of course, I had already broken the router table down, so I'll trim the ebony later. However, since I did have the bandsaw set up and front-and-center, I thought I'd go ahead and saw the preliminary thickness of the headstock.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5048.jpg
I free-handed it, stayed on the line pretty well. You can see how thin my original stock was by how relatively little I'm sawing off in the photo.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5049.jpg

Whoa, that's an ugly baby. I'd probably be dismayed, but having seen some other builder's results at this stage, I'm OK with it. I left a good bit for sanding smooth. Also, although I did not know it at this point, there was going to be plenty to be dismayed about in just a wee bit. . l:cry:

I set up the BOSS with a makeshift fence and began sanding down to thickness, taking little bites at a time. . .
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5055.jpg

As I got close to the thickness I wanted, I noticed two things: 1. With the amount of fretboard and neck I'd left at the end of the cut, I would not be able to use one of the bigger sanding cylinders, to make a graceful sweeping curve for the transition, and worse (2) I'd inadvertently cut too deeply into the face with my release cut, going too deeply into the remaining wood right at the transition. http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5058.jpg
It looks especially crappy filled with ebony dust, just to make my blunder a high-contrast one!
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5057.jpg

My dilemma is this: The tuners I have require a thickness a bit over 1/2 ". The head is a little tiny bit thicker than that, and as you can see, it needs a bit more careful sanding, especially in the transition area. I can sand the cut out by thinning the head a good bit more, but then it will be just a shade under 1/2".

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%2015%20April/IMG_5060.jpg

In this shot, you can see the dial at a bit over 1/2", and the saw cut on the right side of the caliper's jaws.

If I sand the face of the headstock down to completely remove the cut, the headstock will be less than 1/2", and the threaded ferrules that fit the tuners will probably be too long. I could grind the ends of the ferrules, and hope I don't damage the threads too much, they are fine, and small, and I don't think I have any tools that could fix, restore, or recut the threads.

Should I--
1. Fill the saw cut with filler/sawdust, etc,hope it stains OK, and use the tuners as it?
2. Sand the headstock to remove the saw cut, try to grind the ferrules down so they'll sit tight on the headstock?
3. Bite the bullet, sand the headstock to remove the saw cut, and buy new tuners?
4. Something else I'm not thinking of.

If #3, any recommendations for modestly-priced tuners? The headstock holes are about ~.40, and I'll need something that will fit in a headstock about .45--.47 inch thick.

Opinions appreciated.

I'm kind of bummed out now. I wish I'd started another neck, like some builders did last year. In addition to the saw cut, I don't like the length of the truss rod access route--it's too long, I don't like the transition radius, it's too small, and I still don't like the placement of the tuner holes.

Thanks for looking,
Rick

R. Stratenstein

April 16th, 2012, 01:13 AM

I had similar issues gluing my fingerboard on. But in thinking about it I'm not so sure having the frets slightly askew matters. Each string is intonated separately (assuming a six saddle bridge). The string makes more or less point contact with the fret. So functionally is having them slightly off of perpendicular really that bad?

I doubt it... the problem for me would be if I could see it. Our eyes are actually pretty good at spotting when things aren't level/perpendicular so that would be the part that would drive me nuts. :wink: Heck, the center stripe on my neck is off center by about 0.04" and it looks pretty bad to me!

Hmm, Craig, interesting point. I agree with you about each individual string, but am thinking that in relation to each other, there would be a problem. Like a barre chord, assuming your frets lined up with a slight skew with the bass side pointing more to the headstock, and the treble side pointing toward the body. Wouldn't the tones on the bass strings be flat, and the treble ones sharp, in relation to each other?

And anyway, ya want it to look as good as you can--there will be enough opportunities to screw up, so I'm taking advantage of every chance to do something right, that I can. :lol:
BTW, you've got a great burst going on your build. I think the only reason you can see the slight off-centered-ness of your neck is because of the tuning machine holes. I think when the tuners are on, and there are strings running essentially parallel to the stripe on your neck/headstock, it won't be noticeable. Sure wish I had left enough room to do the headstock transition you got, too!

jimdkc

April 16th, 2012, 01:42 AM

Maybe put a veneer on the headstock?

RogerC

April 16th, 2012, 10:43 AM

I'd fill the cut with dust/glue mix, then sand the headstock down to where it should be. You could also sand just the transition area down slightly more and have a little ramp up to the main part of the headstock. not sure how that would look, but it could be one of your headstock trademarks :wink:

OpenG Capo4

April 16th, 2012, 11:09 AM

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l314/erose999/P060412_2130.jpg

I say veneer it. I had a similar problem with a thin headstock. I tried a couple different ways to cover the headstock transition, but I couldn't find a way to do it. I'm happy with it though.

henderson is go

April 16th, 2012, 12:57 PM

A veneer would be a nice looking fix, just use a bending iron to bend the veneer over the transition and then make a clamping caul.

Really enjoying your build

emoney

April 16th, 2012, 01:43 PM

Definitely go the faceplate route. Not only would it rectify your situation but I think they
look nice too. And, that way you can always say this was intentional.

Oh, and I just started using some of those red sanding discs from Lowe's. So far so good.

R. Stratenstein

April 19th, 2012, 09:22 PM

Hate being sick. Got some meds yesterday. Doc said it was "just a bad allergic reaction", didn't know if it was ebony or yard dust, doesn't matter, I'll be masked up next time.

Got a little time to go to shop and mix up some maple sawdust and glue. It occurred to me--a really big DUHHHH--that maybe one reason my first attempt at do-it-yourself-with-sawdust-and-glue was too yellow for the white maple is that I was using. . .ready for this. . .YELLOW freaking Titebond glue. Still got a bruise on my forehead from the slap.

So I mixed up a batch with good ole white Elmer's glue, and it was considerably lighter. Filled in the gashes, and am still pondering next step.

In my heart of hearts, if I went for a veneer or face plate, I'd love to bend it to fit the transition curve, and sand it fair to meet the end of the ebony fretboard.

Open G Capo4's veneer application on the flat part of his headstock looks good, but I'd like to correct the overly big gash I made for the truss rod adjustment access, and a face plate would do it, IF--I could bend it. Don't think I could cover enough of it with just an application on the flat part, and anyway, the cut is well into the transition curve.

I do not have a bending iron, but think I could make one quite easily, I have the stock from the same board, so matching (at least on the face) shouldn't be a problem (side of the headstock will have interrupted flame pattern, tho)

Another idea is to use a router and just chop off most of the face of the headstock, leaving a perfectly square edge, parellel to the nut, where the maple meets the ebony fretboard. Then --carefully this time--rough out the headstock thickness, carefully drill an access hole through it to meet the truss rod neck. Have to route carefully to get a clean 90-degree cut, and cut a nice square piece for the replacement, to glue it in, then re-do.

I'll have at least another full day before I'll feel up to hitting the shop, maybe a better idea will come along.

Will post some photos as soon as there's something to post.

pulaifaz

April 19th, 2012, 11:52 PM

great looking build

+1 for the veneer - I have recovered a couple of botched headstocks with veneer

I also have had allergic reaction to some woods, Spanish Cedar specially, and I try to use at least the 3M masks, so far those have helped

R. Stratenstein

April 20th, 2012, 11:35 PM

Thanks, pulaifaz, for the kind words.

I'm still leaning toward veneering it--sanded my patches down, and found I had apparently left more ebony in the slots that I realized, as they're quite obvious. I suppose I could dig it out, clean it up, and repatch, but jeez, what a mess. . .

I made a jig today to match my headstock transition curve, sprayed some veneer relaxer on a piece of mahogany veneer I have, and clamped it in place in the jig between a couple of paper towels. Will see how it takes the curve tomorrow. I didn't hear any splintering or cracking noises while I was pulling the clamps home, so I have some hopes. . .

I tried a couple of formulas to "ebonize" the mahogany, the only one that got close was straight black Colortone dye, right out of the bottle. Problem with putting ebonized mahogany over the maple is possibility of black dye bleed on the maple. I might try slicing some maple down to veneer thickness and see if I can soften it up enough with the veneer relaxer, if the mahogany came out OK.

I've never done hot bending of wood like real luthiers do, and although I think I could cobble something together with a pipe and torch, or big soldering iron in a pipe, white maple would have a tendency to scorch and discolor.

Damn! Why couldn't I have been just a little more careful with the bandsaw?

Muzikp

April 21st, 2012, 02:14 AM

Hey start I got a pack of those sanding discs also. I was really pleased with them, don't have to line up holes and they don't wear super fast.

Fwiw I vote veneer also. Great build

Guitar novice

April 21st, 2012, 02:44 AM

I reckon I had same issues a yourself with the wood dust. I was using those white filter paper masks but it was still no good.

Bought a half face mask that allows a particle filter to screw in. Haven't looked back. The mask came with a chemical filter so I'm good for spraying.

Great info in the thread. Keep up the good work.

Cheers

R. Stratenstein

April 21st, 2012, 11:54 PM

I really appreciate the support and ideas everyone comes up with here. Many thanks to all.

I had forgotten that years ago I took a course when OSHA came out with their new respiratory protection program, and with that course, I got my own respirator to play with. It's a nice Sundstrom one, with one giant cartridge, and two exhalation valves, so it's super easy to breathe through. Not as common as 3M's or some of the American brands, but I found several sources, and ordered up an organic vapor cartridge (lacquer), a pack of pre-filters which catch the airborne solidified and still liquid paint particles before they get into the more expensive chemical filter cartridge and help sustain its life. (Mine, too, I hope! :lol:) The pre-filters are also rated for nuisance dust like wood, so I'm set.

Anyway, on to the headstock which I bunged up with my bandsaw, when making the release cut while thinning the front side.

I played with several ideas for salvaging it.

First, here's the result of my experiment with softening and bending veneer, and ebonizing it with Color-Tone.

This is the jig mentioned above, built to match the curve of my headstock transition, so veneer could be bent to match ( I hope). I hosed down the test veneer piece with liquid veneer relaxer, let it soak in a bit, then clamped it in the jig in paper towels, using a dowel and clamp anchor at about 45 degrees, to pull the veneer into the rounded concavity of the transition.
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%20April%2021/IMG_5071-1.jpg

Came out of the clamps looking pretty good. There is some spring-back, but obviously, the veneer took the curve without any problems, and would have pulled home just fine when glued into place.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%20April%2021/IMG_5072.jpg

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%20April%2021/IMG_5073.jpg

Color isn't too bad, either, would probably pass, if needed. . .

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%20April%2021/IMG_5075.jpg

But, dang it, I don't really want to cover up that nice flamed maple. Maybe if I sand very carefully, I can get it down to where the filled areas don't show enough to matter. . . .

Nice thought, but well under .5 inch now, one of the gashes has been sanded out, but one of them still shows, and Houston, we have a bigger problem. . .
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%20April%2021/IMG_5077.jpg

It's a little out of focus, but this is a photo of the headstock upside down, with a tuning machine in place, and the ferrule and washer screwed down tight. See the light between the headstock and the ferrule washer? That's gonna make a rattle, I fear.

So now my choices are pretty limited. I don't think I can reliably cut all 6 of the ferrules and be sure of not irrevocably ruining the threads. I thought about cutting a block of maple, cutting a square edge at the transition and glueing in the block, but then started thinking about all the veneer suggestions. I knew I would not have time to cut, thickness, deal with Mr. Snipes and his chip-outs, but I did have one small chance--the cut off from the headstock.

Here it is just sitting on the top of the headstock after a bit of preliminary sanding. Hmmm, might work.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%20April%2021/IMG_5081.jpg

I decided to feather the edge toward the transition, so there will be a taper, and so it'll be thin enough to bend into the transition curve I've already sanded in. It's long enough to just cover the boo-boo, and hopefully, glued down firmly against the transition, I'll be able to sand it fair enough so it will not show, or show just barely. After all, it's the same piece of wood. . . .

It needed a lot of flattening and thinning, and cleaning up of the rough, burned backside, but here it is just about ready, with a preliminary feather edge sanded into the transition edge with the 2" BOSS cylinder

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%20April%2021/IMG_5083.jpg

Sorry about the focus. The piece I wanted to show is out of focus, the ebony background I used to show it up is in focus instead. Hope you get the idea anyway.

Even if it comes off just like I hope, it won't look "normal", but will be better than the gash, and a good reminder for me of how little boo-boos made because of carelessness and rushing, cause BIG problems! This thing and getting sick has cost me a full week of work.

Next step is to give the veneer piece a good soaking of this stuff:

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%20April%2021/IMG_5085.jpg

It's IMPROVED ! How could I miss??:confused:

Man, that flame just jumps out whenever a liquid hits it. Can't wait to get some finish on it.
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%20April%2021/IMG_5086.jpg

In fact, won't hurt to soak the whole thing on both sides. Soften it up so it lays really flat on the headstock (and I get to ogle the flame on the whole thing.)

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%20April%2021/IMG_5087.jpg

Let it soak in pretty well. I also found some 3/8 bolts, nuts and washers that fit fairly well in the tuner holes, that I'll use for preliminary alignment to keep it from slipping until the glue grabs. . . I think most of the edge crap, and the slight misalignment will sand out during final finishing.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%20April%2021/IMG_5091.jpg
As I got the clamps on it, I removed all but one of the bolt, washer and nut combos. Seemed to be holding things in place quite well
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%20April%2021/IMG_5092.jpg\

We've been having a bunny appear in our yard usually in the evenings. He just sits there, watching, nibbling on some goodies in the yard, and has become our mascot, kind of. Amazing what shows up after the cats die.
Anyway, when I went out the shop door to rinse off my hands at the outside spigot, Backyard Bunny was there, watching me. We startled each other a bit, but before he hopped completely away, I got a shot of him. Kind of.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/2012%20Challenge%20April%2021/IMG_5095.jpg

See his eye reflecting the flash? OK, I'll try and get one of him in the daylight. I take his presence as a good omen. We'll see tomorrow when the clamps come off.

Regardless of the headstock, there's a lot more work for the neck and body, will start on that tomorrow.

Thanks for looking,
Rick

Barncaster

April 22nd, 2012, 12:59 AM

Hey Rick,

Nice save! The headstock will be perfect. Do you recommend the super soft? I could have really used it with the bloodwood.

Rob

R. Stratenstein

April 22nd, 2012, 01:11 AM

Thanks, Rob, I surely do hope it is really a save! But it will be better, anyway.

I've been very satisfied with the Veneer softener, and recommend it highly.

I'm not using it exactly per directions, but it's worked well anyway. I originally bought it to flatten some Sapele pomelle veneer that was gorgeous, but had ridges and folds and bumps running every which way. I used the softener per directions, weighted the treated veneer down under some melamine and a couple of layers of clean newsprint, and the veneer became like a marble table top. Glued up perfectly and stayed flat.

It not only would probably do a great job of flattening bloodwood veneer, but may even take the splinteriness out of it. Hadn't thought of using it for that (splinters, I mean), but certainly worth a shot.

adirondak5

April 22nd, 2012, 09:31 AM

That will work , good fix , thats why I usually have a barrel of wood in my shop , I save all my cut offs for fixes or just in case's .

Allthesound

April 22nd, 2012, 10:28 AM

Nice save on the headstock man! Keep up the good work! :grin: Those Irwin clamps look quite handy!

alexlaguna29

April 22nd, 2012, 01:33 PM

I always enjoy seeing good saves :-) Great job

R. Stratenstein

April 22nd, 2012, 10:27 PM

Got the clamps coming off with high anticipation--
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/IMG_5097.jpg

Well, the bolt and nut held well. Some of the masking tape on the clamp face transferred to the wood, but it will sand off OK

And here's the big result--
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/IMG_5099.jpg

I give it maybe a 70%--barely passing grade. Worst part is you can still see the damn nick I put in at the left side of the truss rod slot, right where my faceplate ends. :sad: I think it will sand fair and look so-so, but wait, when ole Murphy's got a hold of you, he doesn't like to let go. I was so focused on getting the outside edges smoothed and meeting together, I didn't even think that there was an INside meeting to worry about--the stoopid truss rod slot!

Somehow I failed to flatten the meeting sides, and now have a little gap --
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/IMG_5098.jpg

Instead of continuing to fling myself against it, I'm just gonna plan to fill it, sand it smooth as I can, maybe color it dark in there so you can't see it, and call it a lesson (hopefully) learned. There's too much to do to and time's getting shorter by the day.

I cut the ebony fingerboard a little wide, and need to flush it up with the side of the neck. But before I do, I want to scrape off the glue runout and the masking tape that caught most of it, so I won't gum up the Whiteside bit.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/IMG_5100.jpg

Mission accomplished! Probably the most flawless thing I did all day!

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/IMG_5102.jpg

There is a bit of glue debris left right at the joint, but it'll sand out.

Neck is beginning to look like a neck.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/IMG_5104.jpg

That's an optical illusion, by the way--although the neck is thin, in this shot it looks like there's almost nothing holding the headstock on. Believe me, at one point I thought about doing some kind of Gibby thing, sawing my troublesome headstock off, and gluing a new one on, but decided that would really be looking for trouble.

Time for next phase.

R. Stratenstein

April 23rd, 2012, 12:22 AM

I wanted to include this excellent example of how a skilled operator can make anything in Photoshop appear real. For instance, here it looks like somebody has actually partially straightened and swept my shop floor. :oops: As we all know this never happens, it has to be a Photoshop job.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/IMG_5109.jpg

Recently, Colt W. Knight posted an excellent tutorial on building two-piece necks. Unfortunately, something happened while putting in fret markers, and he ended up "junking" a pretty neck that he was working on. (Although later he said somebody salvaged the flawed neck.) Now if something like that can happen to Colt Knight, it's a drop-dead cinch something like that'll happen to me, probably worse.

So when I set up to mark out fret markers, I literally set the neck on top of the ehawley neck pattern, and made damn sure everything matched up:wink:

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/IMG_5110.jpg

I had an odd idea that if I started at the high end of the neck, any minor mistakes I made would be less obvious than if up by the nut. Here I've just gotten past the 12th, working my way up the neck.

http://i.imgur.com/K0jYT.jpg

I also included this shot because with the flash, which I usually don't use, the ebony looks milk-chocolate colored. In any other light, it's dead black. Interesting.

I was also kind of disappointed that the 1/4" Forstner bit in my set was oversize enough to force me to use my cheapie brad-point quarter-inch, much closer fit, but it leaves a big crater in the middle of the hole.

Coming right along. . .

http://i.imgur.com/pPbJz.jpg

Pretty much the same shot, only without the flash. Ebony looks normal. I had put a fresh sheet of newsprint on the drill press table to catch ebony dust for. . ."eventualities" :cool:

Used thick CA glue to stick down my Genuine Pearl-esque type imitation MOP fret-marker-ettes. 1/4", Genuine Stew-Mac. Nice contrast to the black ebony. They ended up slightly recessed into the board, but radius sanding will bring 'em up and out.

http://i.imgur.com/83T2n.jpg

I don't know how sound my thinking was about early mistakes being less obvious down on the butt end of the fretboard, but they were there. The very first one. I've had trouble with the depth stop on my drill press, and wanted to double-check my setting after the first hole. It needed to be a little bit deeper, and sure enough, I slightly misaligned the second stroke of the drill. I caught it before it made a really big mess, but will need attention.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/IMG_5116.jpg

While posting this photo, I also noticed I managed to not center the dot vertically, too. It's too close to the fret above it. Didn't even notice that I was so focused on the little ding next to the dot hole.

Anyway, using the now-approved Scatter Lee :cool: CA glue application finger attachment, after blobbing a little CA glue in the ding, I pressed some of my ebony dust in there.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/IMG_5117.jpg

A little sanding should clean that up OK.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/rickspeir/IMG_5118.jpg

:confused::confused::confused::?::?::?::?::?::?:

Is it something I'm doing, or what, here, but this is the third time I've been posting, and right in the middle of my post, all of the early pictures I posted just disappear. I just lost 5 of 'em, and for some reason they don't come back up on Photobucket unless I close it and then reopen it.

Anybody else had this problem? Annoying as H:twisted::twisted:LL.

:confused::?::confused::?::confused::?::confused:: ?::confused::?:

Oh, well, never mind, I just moved my pictures to Imgur, and it seems to be working like a champ (so far). TDPRI's image hosting worked great but I ran out of memory space, P-bucket did for a while, it's probably my ignorance, but we'll see how Imgur does in the long run.

Sorry for the sidetrack, where was I?

Oh, yes, the dots. . .

Got 'er done. Pearoid on black, lovely. . .
http://i.imgur.com/UZEL8.jpg

However, I discovered yet another teeny-weeny "early" mistake--look carefully at fret 19. Yup, it's a little off center. Maybe so nobody will notice, but with straight strings on top to compare it with, maybe it'll be huge. Sighhhh. Again, the wisdom of guys who built multiple necks concurrently during last year's challenge is validated.

Gotta keep reminding myself it's my first neck, nothing disastrous, yet! :wink:

One last notation, and we'll put Mr. Neck away for a bit and turn to something else for a bit.

http://i.imgur.com/uA0Lw.jpg

glen smith

April 23rd, 2012, 01:05 AM

Nice save on the headstock.

R. Stratenstein

April 23rd, 2012, 01:39 AM

Time to work on the body for a while.

Wanted to re-establish the all-important center lines, on which the pickup, control, and neck cavity routes will be based.

http://i.imgur.com/bl5uL.jpg

Here you see where I discover a little detail that led to much confusion and gnashing of teeth. There are two center lines. Actually, I think there are three.
There is the centerline created by the two halves of the poplar body blank, there is the centerline created by the two halves of the maple cap, and there is the TRUE centerline, based on where the template was placed on the blank for cutting the body out.

Memo to self: Next time, CAREFULLY align centerlines of cap and body blank, so they're the same. Then carefully align centerline of template on this common centerline. Then, next time, there will be only one center line to worry about. Details.

In aligning the templates, it actually seemed as though I used the cap centerline for the neck template, and the body blank centerline for the body outline (and by default, the body cavities) Jeesh, what a muddle. Finally got that straightened out, after damn nearly locating the neck route in a very bad place.:shock:

I was so absorbed in trying to get everything figured out, laid out correctly, double-checking, et. al. that I forgot to take pictures during much of the process. If you're reading this, you have certainly seen better examples of this kind of work, anyway. :mad:

I was able to verify that the scale length will work out just fine--thank Heaven for small favors, yes?

http://i.imgur.com/7QQUn.jpg

Got the rough drilling completed. Emphasis on ROUGH. In the bridge pickup hole you can see what finally stopped me in my tracks, and forced me to figure out how to properly use the depth stop on the drill press. I damn nearly drilled right through the back of the thing. Turns out the depth stop assembly was on upside down and turned 90 degrees from its normal "in use" position. There's a little threaded handle that will grip the shaft the thing rides on, but it can slip. Turned 90 degrees, the assembly is forced into a series of teeth on the sides of the depth stop shaft, when the handle is tightened, and will not slip from there. Happy mistake, I guess you'd say--it scared me so bad, it forced me to take the time to investigate and learn something I should have learned about years ago!

Another discovery is that the Ron Kirn templates don't have a cutout for the wiring channel from the neck pickup to the control cavity. Hey ! No problemo!:idea::idea: I'll just lay it out with the rough practice template I made from the tdowns drawings, drill it, and Yeah, Freehand route it! (Can you guess where this is going? :cry: You can see above where it's rough-drilled.

http://i.imgur.com/mPehJ.jpg

I have this 1/4" spiral carbide bit that I thought would be good for cleaning up in the corners where my big diameter pattern bit wouldn't fit. It worked pretty well, except where I had scalloped the edge of my template by trying to use the big fat pattern bit in the middle of the neck pickup route. I should have waited and ordered a 1/2" or smaller diameter pattern bit. Glad I learned my lesson about rushing things on the neck. :roll:
You can see the scalloping on the lower right side of the template in the photo above. Not a really big deal, but distressing that so many things are not quite right.

I did successfully route the pickup and control cavities, and turned to the neck pocket. I wanted to double-triple check it's location, angle, and everything, and was kinda nervous about it.

Here's not a very good picture of the neck pocket being routed. Router has very blue LED lighting that's nice for seeing your work, but makes an eerie lavendar glow in pictures.

http://i.imgur.com/LI38R.jpg

Got the depth very close, and the width looked right, so it was time for a little trial assembly and who knows, maybe a money shot!

http://i.imgur.com/1KWbb.jpg

I'll give myself a 78, maybe 80 on the routes, first of the type I've done, so for a rookie job--passable.

And it's kind of anticlimatic--I did not completely botch the wire channel route when I freehanded it. I clamped some wood strips to limit the damage and hopefully give me a little guidance, but I found that the little trimmer router, with that down-running spiral bit is well behaved and easy to control. Main trick with the down-spiral is to frequently stop and clean out chips. It's not pretty, but will be under the pickguard, and this one's just for me, so not a problem.

The main problem pending now is that because of the large diameter pattern bit I have, I could not get to the corners of the neck pocket route. I did use a perfect diameter (1/2") Forstner bit to define the actual corners, but left the depth a bit high, as it's much more difficult to closely regulate depth with the drill press than the router. So I have little "cheeks" in the bottom of the neck pocket butt, that keeps the neck from sliding fully home.

http://i.imgur.com/df11O.jpg

I do have smaller diameter pattern bits on order, and will clean that up when they come in. The little "thumbnail" at the bottom of the neck pocket is from the Ron Kirn template, it has a channel running from the neck to the neck pickup cavity, I assume for access to a truss rod adjustment screw located in the neck butt. In this photo you can also more clearly see the scalloping on the bottom left of the neck pickup cavity, and how the wiring channel route turned out. I may get ambitious and cut the channel pattern into the body template, then clean it up after the new router bits come. Or maybe not.

Oh, yeah, and so far, the neck is a good fit. I can pick up the body with the neck, but because it's not fully home and solid, I was afraid to do it and wave it around enough to get a picture of it. It's not real tight, just snug, room for finish without too much sanding, I think.

Well, thanks to photo hosting problems, I'm about 2 hours past bedtime. Good weekend's work--not perfect, but so far, going OK.

Thanks for looking,
Rick

R. Stratenstein

April 23rd, 2012, 01:43 AM

Nice save on the headstock man! Keep up the good work! :grin: Those Irwin clamps look quite handy!

Thanks, Steve. I love the Quick-Clamps, highly recommended for all kinds of shop tasks.

nosmo

April 23rd, 2012, 02:04 AM

It just goes to show - If it's not one thing, it's two things!

R. Stratenstein

April 23rd, 2012, 02:22 AM

It just goes to show - If it's not one thing, it's two things!

Or, as our favorite Roseanne Rosannadanna quote around here goes, " if it's not one thing, it's TEN!":lol:

glen smith

April 23rd, 2012, 07:01 PM

The fingerboard is very nice! Are you going for a natural finish on the body?

guitarbuilder

April 23rd, 2012, 07:27 PM

Things are looking good.
Regarding dust masks, I use disposable 3-M double strap ones from the Auto Parts store. I get a box of 20 I think for about 22 dollars or thereabouts.

http://www.professionalequipment.com/3m-8210-n95-dust-mask-20pack-3m-8210/dust-masks/

If you buy them in packs of 2 at home centers, they are much more money.
I always wear one when I'm in the wood shop. You wouldn't believe how much dust gets stuck to them. I wear them until one of the strap breaks or they are really dirty looking ( like a car air filter) and then get a new one out.

Matt Haskins

April 23rd, 2012, 07:41 PM

This guitar is really starting to look beautiful. The neck with the body is going to be amazing. Not to sure about that blue sticker on the headstock but I could be wrong about that. :razz:

R. Stratenstein

April 24th, 2012, 10:49 PM

The fingerboard is very nice! Are you going for a natural finish on the body?

Thank You, Glen. I'm pretty happy with the way its turning out, for a first effort. I am going to use transparent color on the body, but your question does raise the issue--the stark white maple and black of the fretboard is a cool contrast. Finished with some non-yellowing finish, might be nice.

Things are looking good.
Regarding dust masks, I use disposable 3-M double strap ones from the Auto Parts store. I get a box of 20 I think for about 22 dollars or thereabouts.

http://www.professionalequipment.com/3m-8210-n95-dust-mask-20pack-3m-8210/dust-masks/

If you buy them in packs of 2 at home centers, they are much more money.
I always wear one when I'm in the wood shop. You wouldn't believe how much dust gets stuck to them. I wear them until one of the strap breaks or they are really dirty looking ( like a car air filter) and then get a new one out.

I guess this is about as good a place as any to confess that I do safety consulting work as my profession. I recommend stuff like this all day long, and know better than to NOT use it. Although in the workplace, once you put people in respirators, you also inherit an OSHA program that's straight from hell to keep up with, so I try to help my clients find another way to protect their employees' lungs , whenever possible.

But you're right--for dust masks, if you want any protection at all, double-straps are the way to go. In my case, a glasses wearer, there's an additional advantage in that you can cinch it up tight enough to escaping breath doesn't fog up glasses. They also make masks with an exhalation valve so it's really easy to breathe out without any fog at all. I had not thought of an auto parts store, but that's an excellent source, that's easy to find, probably has some selection, and I won't have to wait to order. Thanks for the idea.

This guitar is really starting to look beautiful. The neck with the body is going to be amazing. Not to sure about that blue sticker on the headstock but I could be wrong about that. :razz:

Thanks, Matt. I may have to re-evaluate the blue sticker, I think. I thought it would be cheaper than paying somebody to make decals for me, and have a distinctive look, too. Might take a little more nitro to get a smooth finish over it, tho. . .:cool::cool:

RogerC

April 24th, 2012, 11:02 PM

R. Stratenstein

April 24th, 2012, 11:13 PM

While I'm waiting for my small diameter router bits to come in, so I can finish the neck pocket route, I decided to get the neck out and work on it some more.

BTW, why doesn't anybody have a 3/8" or 5/16" diameter pattern router bit, 3/4" or 1" cutting depth, with a top bearing (bearing between the router and the cutting flutes, for use with top mounted templates), and a 1/2" shank? Or a 1/4" shank, for that matter?

Anyway, got a little time to do some guitar work yesterday evening.

http://i.imgur.com/FxLCkh.jpg

I wanted to make sure the fretboard was dead flat, so I got out the granite block with the 100 grit stuck to it, and worked the face over it. It was dead flat right from the get-go :smile::smile: but I decided to go ahead and work it until the dots and fretboard were all leveled up. Did not take long. I had my mask on, and the shop vac running the whole time, too. No more ebony-breath for me!

I also rolled the FB slightly on it's axis after I got it flushed up, to help give a start to the radius. I got a 10" Stew-Mac radius sanding block, seems like a good compromise between vintage 7.5, and bender's delight of 16" or so. Hope I like it!

Quickly learned that unlike the granite block, with the radius block, 100 grit does not cut very fast, so I broke out the 60 grit to start shaping it. I don't want to get too far with that, and get scratches that I'll have to grind out, but so far, no problems.

I discovered that the granite block with sandpaper held the neck just fine for sanding on the fretboard. No clamps, no double-stick tape, just the "grab" of the sandpaper.

I think I'm going to make some kind of jig to hold the block perfectly parallel the the fretboard axis--maybe modify my routing jig--so I'll have a consistent and even radius. I noticed that one side or another seems to get more "attention" when manually sanding.

This looks like it may take a bit. Have to work on one of Bill Sheltema's (sorry about spelling) fretboard radius jigs and some pucks for it.

Thanks for looking,
Rick

R. Stratenstein

April 24th, 2012, 11:20 PM

Looking very nice. I know what you mean about all the small things that seem to slip through while you're trying to mess up the big things. I keep telling myself that I'm learning a lot while I'm doing this :grin:. I've thought about keeping a build journal so I could detail what I did and how I fixed it. The problem is that I think I make entirely new mistakes every time :lol:

Thanks, Roger. You've been kind of an inspiration to me through this thing, what with the various obstacles you've run into, and keep plugging away at. Funny you mention it, I fully intended to keep a journal just like you said, daily notations, what worked, what didn't critiques, and Notes to self for next time, etc. Guess I got too busy doing it to diary it, although, come to think of it, our threads will be pretty good build journals, and also have the benefit of the bucking up and support our buds have been pumping us all along here. . .and pictures, too ! :lol:

BR06623

April 24th, 2012, 11:22 PM

DesmoDog

April 24th, 2012, 11:47 PM

BTW, why doesn't anybody have a 3/8" or 5/16" diameter pattern router bit, 3/4" or 1" cutting depth, with a top bearing (bearing between the router and the cutting flutes, for use with top mounted templates), and a 1/2" shank? Or a 1/4" shank, for that matter?

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_flush.html#2095

First one listed under the "Pattern/Flush Trim Bits" section (#6504) is a 5/16" pattern bit with 1/4" shank and 1" cutting length. On sale, $13, free shipping.

R. Stratenstein

April 25th, 2012, 12:04 AM

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_flush.html#2095

First one listed under the "Pattern/Flush Trim Bits" section (#6504) is a 5/16" pattern bit with 1/4" shank and 1" cutting length. On sale, $13, free shipping.

Thanks, Craig, I saw that one--but in the notation just below, it says it's an overhang bit (bearing's a different diameter than the cut diameter) and is not appropriate for (flush) pattern cutting. I guess I could hog out a new template to accommodate the difference, but have had limited success doing stuff like that.

glen smith

April 25th, 2012, 12:12 AM

The other bits below the #6504 bit are flush trim bits like you need except they are a larger diameter.

DesmoDog

April 25th, 2012, 12:13 AM

Thanks, Craig, I saw that one--but in the notation just below, it says it's an overhang bit (bearing's a different diameter than the cut diameter) and is not appropriate for (flush) pattern cutting. I guess I could hog out a new template to accommodate the difference, but have had limited success doing stuff like that.

Ahhh... I read that part wrong... Oops! I should really stop trying to catch up on all these posts and instead try to catch up on some sleep! :oops:

glen smith

April 25th, 2012, 12:53 AM

Why do you feel the need for a 5/16 or 3/8 bit?

R. Stratenstein

April 25th, 2012, 11:37 PM

Ahhh... I read that part wrong... Oops! I should really stop trying to catch up on all these posts and instead try to catch up on some sleep! :oops:

You and me both! :lol: I appreciate your thoughtfulness, though!

Why do you feel the need for a 5/16 or 3/8 bit?

Glen, From memory, I don't think a Tele has any inside pockets with a radius smaller than .25, so technically, a 1/2" bit should work, however, if you need to "cheat" a neck corner a little bit, or do other small radius interior pocket routes, (also humbucker routes) smaller is better (to a point.) I do have the 1/4" diameter spiral carbide bit I can use in a pinch, but it does not have a bearing, you just use the shaft beyond where the cutting flutes are, as a guide. Clumsy oafs like me often make big mistakes doing stuff like that! Guide bearing helps avoid them.

I did order some of those other bits you refered me to, got notice from MLCS they're on the way.

R. Stratenstein

April 25th, 2012, 11:44 PM

Looking really good! I like what you did with the headstock. I had to do something similar because I drilled tuner holes in the wrong places! I used a piece leftover from the top, but it was not long enough to reach the transition. I will see tomorrow how it worked.

I am pretty impressed with what you have done so far!

Thanks for the kind words, Bro6623. I'm still not completely happy with it, but I could probably spend the entire rest of the challenge time beating myself up and trying one cobbled-up fix after another. I may try replacing the not-very-well-color matched fill I used in the saw cut I made, that's still there, and in the gap that appears between the layers you can see in the truss rod access slot, but not much more, unless by a miracle, I get a great deal of time suddenly on my hands.

How did your fix turn out?

Rick

glen smith

April 25th, 2012, 11:45 PM

R. Stratenstein

April 26th, 2012, 07:34 PM

If you know you need something smaller before you start removing material, you could always use a drill bit first for the smaller radius then complete with the router. Anyway, I checked a whole bunch of router bit manufacturers and I didn't find anything smaller than a 1/2" diameter with a top bearing.

Actually, I did use drill bits for the smaller radius, but my main pattern bit (3/4" diameter) wouldn't quite clean up where the drill bit left off. Your research confirms mine--there just ain't any such animal. My 1/2" ones came in today, so I'll just have to be happy with them :neutral:

dilbone

April 26th, 2012, 07:56 PM

I was just on here earlier today and I had thought I left a comment, but apparently not. First I love the reminder for the side markers:lol:...I needed that reminder as I almost starting wiping on stain when I realized I hadn't installed them yet.

That top is gonna look great with some finish on it and the neck really compliments it well. Nice save with the headstock, I had an issue on last year's challenge headstock thickness too but thankfully vintage style tuners don't care about thickness what with only having the top bushing to deal with.

R. Stratenstein

April 26th, 2012, 09:43 PM

Thanks, Chris. Like just about everything else I do, the special order reminder sticker was purloined from somebody else's build, I'm embarassed to say I've forgotten whose. So many great threads going. No wonder I can't shake this damn respiratory infection, I stay up way too late every night when I should be getting extra sleep instead !

Appreciate the compliments on the top. As I said earlier, I wish I'd been able to preserve a real, true mirror image bookmatch, but it was not to be. It's pretty wood nevertheless, and I hope I'm up to making it look good.

One of my first responses when I botched the headstock thickness was to look at other tuners as a somewhat easier fix. Vintage tuners with press-in, rather than threaded ferrules may have been a better option than staying with what I've got, but I'm committed now. (Or should be!:roll:).

Enjoying your build this year, liked last year's too, and am very envious of how far along you are! Good work.

OpenG Capo4

April 26th, 2012, 10:42 PM

Yeah I'm in the same boat, have to make do with a 1/2" bit and use regular drill bits to work the corners. Had pretty good luck with that so far though. I've done P-90 routes and humbucker routes that have had crisp corners. A 1/2" will work for every cavity in the standard Tele body route though.

R. Stratenstein

April 26th, 2012, 10:57 PM

Geez, looks like I've lost my 5-star rating and have been busted down to 4 stars. Must have forgotten to pay my TDPRI dues. Or maybe because of the abysmally slow progress I'm making.

So here's a bit of progress.

After about an hour of hand sanding to first level, then begin with the radius block on that hard ebony fretboard, with unsatisfying progress, I decided sooner than later, I need a fretboard radius jig. I decided to build the router-sled version, and mocked it up with some plywood and PVC scraps I had laying around.

http://i.imgur.com/AoYga.jpg

It's a bit wide, but I thought I might ultimately also use it for surface-routing boards flat, and someday want to build a bass, so I made it probably too wide. This proved to be a bit of a problem later.

http://i.imgur.com/jfYJS.jpg

It's interesting to see how obsessed I've become with center lines since I started building. Everything's got to have a centerline to match with something else's center line! Here I've finished the base, and am test-positioning the top board on top of the base prior to glueing, screwing, and weighting it down with a couple of big lead weights. I wanted to be absolutely certain the thing is flat, flat, flat.

You can't see them in this photo, but the base is supported and forced flat, by 3 strips of plywood that run parallel to the axis of the board, glued and screwed to the bottom.

COOL TOOL ADVISORY
For anybody who puts a lot of stuff together with drywall or similar screws (like guitar-building jigs, for instance), this is one of the better finds I've made in recent years. It is a tapered drill bit, with an adjustable countersink head. It cuts very cleanly, and instead of a clearance hole through the top piece, a pilot hole in the bottom piece, and a separate countersink, all with different bits, this one tool does it all. Here you see it adjusted for use with 2" drywall screws, which is what I put most of the jig together with.

http://i.imgur.com/PCzEK.jpg

The 3/8" designation on the package means the counter sink diameter, and it will cut deep enough, if you want, to insert plugs, so it does that, too.

Here it is adjusted for 1-1/4" screws I used on part of the jig:

http://i.imgur.com/Lcd6R.jpg

You just loosen up the 2 allen head set screws in the counter sink head to adjust it.

You can get replacement bits for it, it comes in different diameters, and it's just one of those little things that helps make projects go a little faster and sometimes better. I got mine at Highland Woodworking, but I think other places carry it.

The 2" PVC pipes are held in place by screws driven at a 45 degree angle, pulling the pipes into the edge of the top board. There are 3 screws for each pipe, one at each end, which could be easily drilled and driven home from the pipe ends, but the ones in the middle were a bit more challenging.

Didn't want to make a big hole where the sled might hit it, and make a bump in the router's path. Drilled a larger hole further down on the pipe, beyond where the sled will contact it. Worked out well, even fishing the washer in there with coat hangers and scrap cut off sticks.

http://i.imgur.com/l07jt.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/f9j7d.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/o9ADE.jpg

The router sled is just a little box, sized to fit the router, with the bit sticking out of the middle of it. Made it of 3/4 plywood, but may need to thin it, if bit won't reach, or needs to be chucked too far out of the collet.
http://i.imgur.com/XEQdb.jpg

Pretty straightforward cutting and drilling--boring.

Next step is to make the arcs on which the thing will ride over the pipes. Again, for this build, I'm going with a 10" radius. I tried to think of clever ways to make a holder for interchangeable arcs, but nothing came to mind. I'll noodle that out later, got to get this thing made and on to other things.

You can bandsaw these arcs, even better if you have a circle cutting jig, but I don't have a jig, and freehand makes for errors, and extensive sanding to even up and smooth out. Routers, oh the other hand, cut a nice clean, perfect arc, that requires only minimal sanding.

After locating and boring a hole for the router bit to stick out, I attached the base of my little HF trim router to a piece of 1/4" plywood with a couple of short screws.

http://i.imgur.com/7Kt2T.jpg

The rest of it is just a matter of locating the center of the arc so it will swing 10", placing and holding the workpiece in the right place, and taking several cuts, pass the router over until the arc is cut out.

The downcutting spiral bit cuts well, and smoothly, even in this plywood, but leaves a heavy, packed residue of sawdust chips in the groove that have to be brushed out after every pass.

http://i.imgur.com/Ieyx0.jpg

I just laid a couple of 3/4" plywood scraps to support the router "base" at the same height as the 3/4" work piece. Also a small 3/4 block at the pivot point.

Here's a shot after the first pass. You can see the arc beginning to be cut out
http://i.imgur.com/n3Rrt.jpg

Seems like there's a resurgence of putting the Official Entry Poster in photos of late. I guess, like me, they've been lost in the clutter for a while, but found while digging for lost tools, etc. :oops:

http://i.imgur.com/xUEiF.jpg

Meanwhile, these guys came in the mail today. Hooray! :lol: I'll be able to finish the body routes.
These also came in, had worn out some of the old ones. Never hurts to have spares.
http://i.imgur.com/GoTVUh.jpg

Got the arcs cut, and test-assembled the sled with clamps. Whoops! Slight miscalculation! Not nearly long enough. Now I know why most of the similar jigs you see aren't as wide as mine.

I did route new arcs in a piece of plywood, but it got late and I gotta get some sleep.

Here's a photo of the base, pipes, sled parts, new arcs in a single board, and one of the too-short ones sitting on the pipes in front. In this shot you can also see the stiffener/flattener strips screwed to the bottom of the base.
http://i.imgur.com/APGWgh.jpg

One last thing before I break down the arc-routing setup: Make an arc in a piece of oak. Stay tuned.

http://i.imgur.com/NevBI.jpg

Thanks for looking,
Rick

BR06623

April 26th, 2012, 10:59 PM

Thanks for the kind words, Bro6623. I'm still not completely happy with it, but I could probably spend the entire rest of the challenge time beating myself up and trying one cobbled-up fix after another. I may try replacing the not-very-well-color matched fill I used in the saw cut I made, that's still there, and in the gap that appears between the layers you can see in the truss rod access slot, but not much more, unless by a miracle, I get a great deal of time suddenly on my hands.

How did your fix turn out?

Rick

Well, the veneer wasn't as flat as I thought, but it looks fairly good. From the front view, it looks great, but the glue joint on the top has a gap. I think I will try to fill it with epoxy. I will get some pictures up tomorrow. Also had a hard time fixing the finish where I rubbed it off when sanding the edge of the veneer, but I think I got it.

I fully understand what you mean about spending the rest of the build time trying to fix little problems.:oops: Guess it is all about learning.

BR06623

April 26th, 2012, 11:03 PM

Very interesting Jig by the way, and yes, I use drywall screws for just about everything.

R. Stratenstein

April 26th, 2012, 11:10 PM

Well, the veneer wasn't as flat as I thought, but it looks fairly good. From the front view, it looks great, but the glue joint on the top has a gap. I think I will try to fill it with epoxy. I will get some pictures up tomorrow. Also had a hard time fixing the finish where I rubbed it off when sanding the edge of the veneer, but I think I got it.

I fully understand what you mean about spending the rest of the build time trying to fix little problems.:oops: Guess it is all about learning.

After posting the above, I visited your thread and saw what you had done. The veneer piece really looks good. You're not alone with the sides not being what you'd like. I'm just going to have to decide to let it be, do what little I can given the time and skills available, and plan on the next one.

It is indeed a learning experience. I've worked wood for over 25 years, and have done some guitar work before, but I am learning every day. Love it! :mrgreen:

crazydave911

April 27th, 2012, 12:04 AM

It is indeed a learning experience. I've worked wood for over 25 years, and have done some guitar work before, but I am learning every day. Love it! :mrgreen:

The day you quit learning is when you hit the celestial dirt nap :lol:

Sweet build RS

Dave

OpenG Capo4

April 27th, 2012, 08:31 AM

I gotta see the radius jig in action. I'm anxious to see what the oak piece you cut will be used for as well. :lol:

alexlaguna29

April 27th, 2012, 11:56 AM

Yeah, me too (see radius jig in action)!!!

BTW, welcome to 4 star ranked club!

czook

April 27th, 2012, 01:22 PM

Nice build. I don't understand anyone giving anything other than 5 stars to all the entries in the challenge. Kind of petty. This is a 5 star for sure.

glen smith

April 27th, 2012, 03:24 PM

I, for one, wanted to give this thread 5 stars but I am not even allowed to rate it.:confused:

guitarbuilder

April 27th, 2012, 03:54 PM

The stars are on an average and so it fluctuates I guess... You are back up there. Why anybody would rate below a 5 is strange on any thread...why rate it if it's not a productive rating.....it's not like it is Ebay. What makes it a 4 over a 5? Not everybody can be one of the A list builders with 10 million hits on their threads.....people are strange.

R. Stratenstein

April 27th, 2012, 11:09 PM

Thanks for the kind words everybody. I didn't know you voted for the stars. I guess if one person thinks your thread is a dud, and votes so, you get lower stars. Apparently some people voted my stars back in, and I see alexlaguna's rating is back up where I thought it should be, too., so thanks for the votes.

Didn't get much done today, had a long day on the road for work, then picked up some stuff I need for finishing (ever the eternal optomist), and by the time I got home, was run down again. gotta get rid of this damn thing, but now the honeysuckle and some gawd=awful smelling white bush is in bloom, it's like breathing in pepper spray outside when you go past those damn bushes.

Tomorrow we'll put the radius sled to the test, finish up on the oak arc project, hopefully route the body, drill for the bridge, align and drill the neck, maybe even get some color on the body, if all goes well. . .

RogerC

April 27th, 2012, 11:48 PM

Thanks for the tool tip. I need to check into it since I have about a metric ton of drywall screws that I use for EVERYTHING.:lol:

Good luck with the jig trials. In my mind, a radius jig is a must if you plan on doing any amount of necks. I know I've said it in a least 2 other threads, but it bears repeating-- I HATE radius sanding.

OpenG Capo4

April 28th, 2012, 09:16 AM

I must confess I actually like honeysuckle. When I was a kid my friends and I would pull the blossoms apart to get the little drops of nectar inside. :lol:

R. Stratenstein

April 28th, 2012, 09:23 AM

I must confess I actually like honeysuckle. When I was a kid my friends and I would pull the blossoms apart to get the little drops of nectar inside. :lol:

Me, too. One of the things that charmed me about my wife (who grew up a bit East of Athens) is that she showed me that trick about getting the "honey" out of the suckle.
The smell of honeysuckle always reminds me of my high school graduation, an exceptionally happy time in my life. In general, I like the stuff.

I haven't noticed it alone bothering me, but with that damn bush with the greenish-white flowers that grows all over the place around here, the pollen count gets high enough to be bothersome.

There's a good bit of poison ivy growing up in the woods behind me, and every year I always delay hitting it with the Roundup until after the honeysuckle blooms, so I can scope out where it is, and try to avoid killing it as much as possible. I am going to kill the hell out of those white bushes, tho.

crazydave911

April 28th, 2012, 10:00 AM

.....people are strange.

The understatement of the millenium :lol:

R. Stratenstein

April 28th, 2012, 09:09 PM

The understatement of the millenium :lol:

Not to mention a quirky little Doors song. (Or was it "When You're Strange"? Damn, I enjoyed destroying those brain cells, but I sure miss 'em now. :roll:

BR06623

April 28th, 2012, 09:17 PM

Ok, honeysuckle is great.....now, how does the radius sled work? :smile:

Could you post a video of it in action?

Hope the white blooms don't get you down.:wink:

R. Stratenstein

April 28th, 2012, 10:50 PM

Ok, honeysuckle is great.....now, how does the radius sled work? :smile:

Could you post a video of it in action?

Hope the white blooms don't get you down.:wink:

Sure, but first a word about the beautiful Wisteria this year. It's so purple and. . . :lol:

Sorry, couldn't resist. Time to get to work already.:roll:

I'll go down and try to shoot a short video of it in action. I already used it today to radius my neck, and it worked great.

Here's how it went:

I needed to finish the router sled. First step was to cut the 10" radius arcs to length, then find the--you guessed it--centerlines.

http://i.imgur.com/0xOGN.jpg

Sanded them smooth.
http://i.imgur.com/THbeJ.jpg

And waxed them for cool running. I am feeling very olympic today!:razz:
http://i.imgur.com/EwF76.jpg

After sanding with the sanding sponge and a couple of coats of wax, they slid like the you-know-what of an owl.

Assembled the sled with 2" drywall screws and my Fuller bit.

http://i.imgur.com/3TgmX.jpg

I used the offcuts from the arcs as stops to help hold the router in place.

http://i.imgur.com/U2WNE.jpg

And made a couple of clips out of some oak strips, because I don't feature routers jumping up on their own.

http://i.imgur.com/2u9ps.jpg

Had to test it before I attacked the ebony. Except for the bloodwood that I'm hoarding, the hardest thing I've got is oak. Secured an oak piece in place with 3 pieces of carpet tape. Somebody on the forum here recommended using masking tape stuck to the actual wood, to make it less likely to tear out grain, and possibly make it easier to release the tape when you're done.

The tape held great, and the test piece was a total success!

http://i.imgur.com/q0NyH.jpg

The red 9 on the end of the board is from the lumber yard. Apparently this is what's left of a 9 B.F. slab.

As usual, Murphy was looking in. The oak test piece I used, which I had stupidly not recognized, was the oak piece I routed the 10" radius in yesterday ! :oops: No matter, it will still work, I'm sure. I also managed to nick one of the pipes on the side. Glad I used PVC, and not metal which was my first plan.

http://i.imgur.com/BkduC.jpg

So now it's time to get the job done. Had to re-establish the centerline at the peghead of the neck. Heel CL was still visible.

http://i.imgur.com/Ui1e3.jpg

Used the same masking-tape-carpet tape method to secure the neck to the radius jig's base.

http://i.imgur.com/AIuWw.jpg

Here is is pretty much set up and ready to roll. The way it works is you slide the router over to one side or the other on the arcs, then push it along parallel to the neck, as the router bit cuts a little into the face of the fretboard. Then you pull it back, overlapping your previous routing path about 50%, then push it back forward, all the time sliding on the PVC pipes.
Lower the bit slightly, and repeat until you have the radius and/or thickness you're going for.

I already am as thin as I want to be, (my neck, that is, not me!) so I was going for radius, with as little material removal as possible. Took 3 passes, as I was being very conservative and taking very light cuts.

If I had had a smaller bit (in diameter) I would have used it, as it left some small facets. They weren't any trouble to sand out, but it would have been smoother with a smaller bit, intended for bottom cutting. My bit was just a 3/4" diameter pattern bit, but it cut smoothly and accurately.

http://i.imgur.com/Wyxie.jpg

And yeah, I missed the center line when I stuck the neck down. I corrected that when I sanded with the radius block.

http://i.imgur.com/n91LA.jpg

In this shot, you can see how some figuring came out of the ebony because of the material removed. It makes it look more faceted than it really is. Strangely, after sanding, I got down to some more black, with much less figuring.

http://i.imgur.com/teSQl.jpg

Here's after a bit of sanding from 220 to 320, 400 then 600. Later I shined it up with steel wool.

http://i.imgur.com/teSQl.jpg

And that's how the radius routing went. Like all jigs and fixtures, you spend hours on the jig, then minutes on the actual work. Nature of the beast, but next time is a joy. :cool:

Now it's time to pay off on the oak arc.

Muzikp

April 28th, 2012, 11:13 PM

This is awesome. Thanks for the detailed photos and tutorial. I'll be making one of those.

rcole_sooner

April 28th, 2012, 11:20 PM

Oh, yeah! I love seeing those neck radius jigs, in action.

glen smith

April 28th, 2012, 11:34 PM

Great tutorial, thanks.

R. Stratenstein

April 29th, 2012, 12:28 AM

BTW, I meant to put this pic in the post above. The test piece is not perfectly smooth 10" radius, which I partially blame on me using a large diameter bit. But it's pretty darn close, and easily sanded to perfect radius with the block.

http://i.imgur.com/we6Hc.jpg

So, as I confessed above, the test piece is actually my oak board with the 10" radius in it.

First step is to cut it like the sled's arc pieces, right at the ends of the arc, so the centerline is more easily found.

http://i.imgur.com/s0ToW.jpg

And measure out about 1-1/8 inch on each side of the CL, so I can trim a piece of arc about 2-1/4 inches wide.

http://i.imgur.com/dJUtq.jpg

And voila, a caul to use with my new press, for fretting ! Ohboy, this is gonna be great:cool:

http://i.imgur.com/9mote.jpg

But first, as expected, grinding the radius on top of the fretboard made the original fret slots too shallow. Nearly erased some of them.

I don't have one of those fancy Stew-Mac fretwire tang depth gauges, so using a sample piece of fret wire, a Sharpie, and a razor blade, I made my own. Here you see a fret slot that's much too shallow.

http://i.imgur.com/LRur9.jpg

Now begins my tale of woe. Let's start with being too stoopid to mask off my nicely polished ebony fretboard before going at it again with a sharp saw!:sad:

http://i.imgur.com/TyvLS.jpg

As you can see from the tape on the fretboard to the far left, I did wise up a bit too late, and taped up the rest of the FB so slips wouldn't cause scars like these.

http://i.imgur.com/wCOIlh.jpg

And of course, that one is pretty deep. Needs sanding out. A lot of sanding as it would turn out. So, guess what? Yup, after I got the scars sanded out, the fret slots were too shallow again! D'OH!

So I taped up and re-cut fret slots, measured the depth with my razor blade, cut a Vee in with a triangle file, got all ready to fret like a pro.

Hmm. How tight are frets supposed to be? I have a 1/2 ton press, that's 1000 pounds--of force pushing that little scrap of metal into a slot that's supposed to be just right for it.

After crunching down on the press handle as hard as I dare, then hammering the ***** out of the frets, some of them still wouldn't pass the "corner-of-a-piece-of-paper test. (Great idea, whoever thought of it, thanks :grin:)

So I pulled the first fret. OWWWW ! Apparently I filed the Vee's in my fret slots wrong. Looks like every fiber of the ebony pulled up along the slot.

http://i.imgur.com/ORI1B.jpg

Holy crap! Now I've done it. CArefully, very carefully, pulled the saw through the slot a few times to deepen it. I figured somehow I hadn't measured the depth of the whole slot, and there was a high place.

This helped some, and I was able to get the fret pretty much home and I only lost one or two of the little chips. They're mostly under the fret, and don't show much unless you're looking for them. Then they're very obvious.

The other day at Woodcraft, I saw some black CA glue. This seems to me an ideal fix, assuming I can dribble some in there and mostly or completely fill the chips without having to sand. Any thoughts on that?

Well, it occurred to me that I had made a big mistake early on in my tests. I used a piece of pine 2 X 4 to cut fret slots with the Harbor Freight pull saw, and an old dovetail saw that was my Father-in Law's. The dovetail saw slot held the fret, but wasn't as tight as the slot cut by the pull saw. BUT--and it's a big BUT--that does not translate to hard ebony. I think the slots were just too thin, and the tangs just wouldn't go.

So, tape up again, break out the dovetail saw, re-cut fret slots, re-file Vees, although I don't have much confidence they'll prevent chips pulling out.

And in the course of fretting again, I discovered what seems to be what everyone who tries to use a wooden caul to press in frets, discovers--It don woik!

http://i.imgur.com/6IdOEh.jpg

It just takes too much force, concentrated in that thin line along the fret wire, for wood to hold up.

Not a problem. I got a hammer, and went upstairs and put on my Fret-Beater shirt. I'm in a whip-ass mood now, anyway.

Funny, I didn't forget to do it, but I forgot to include it in the narrative.

I remembered to do the side markers!

http://i.imgur.com/TMfBIh.jpg

Lay them out. Center punch with my sharpened nail set. Freehand drill with a .059 drill bit. Used a masking tape flag to gauge depth, about 3/16".

http://i.imgur.com/ypcKqh.jpg

Feeling a little snake-bit at this point, so I taped up most of neck against CA glue spill. Wasn't necessary, but if I had not taped up. . . .:shock:

Dipped end of plastic rod into a blob of CA thick, and pressed it into the hole. Waited about 30 seconds, and snipped it off, and on to the next.

http://i.imgur.com/oPrjnh.jpg

Waited about 30 minutes, then trimmed with a razor blade. I think it will clean up well with final sanding.
http://i.imgur.com/Um21jh.jpg
Time to Gloat with a celebratory water. Still on meds, so I can't have a beer. Actually this shot was taken right after sanding and polishing with steel wool.

http://i.imgur.com/BZIoMh.jpg

OK, back to fretting.

I managed to beat the rest of the frets into place, more or less. I am absolutely positive all the slots were deep enough, and I beat hell out of the frets, but some of them did not seat fully, across their full widths. I know sometimes ends want to pop, and I had my share of that, but sometimes it was right in the middle, I could not beat them into submission, and still don't have a clue why.

http://i.imgur.com/Wh2AVh.jpg

I'm afraid there may be a Stew-Mac fret saw and box in my future, if I'm going to keep building, which I'd like to do. also a fret press caul.

Here's the money shots, such as they are. On top of everything else, AT&T Internet NONservice has gone into weekend mode, also known as slower than dialup, but we still expect you to pay for broadband speed. Up until ATT ate Bellsouth, it was great, but ATT really, really sucks. If I could get cable, or tin cans on a string, or ANYTHING but ATT, I'd jump at it. The last two pictures uploaded have taken over 15 minutes.

Enough bellyaching. Money shots.

http://i.imgur.com/w****h.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QCW1Lh.jpg

Hey, I just realized while I was fighting off the demons, I didn't notice that I'd actually built a guitar neck. My very first, and it isn't all bad. :mrgreen:

BRO, I'll try to get a video up tomorrow of the radius jig in action. With my technical ignorance, and ATT's lack of bandwidth, it may be dicey, but I promise I'll give it a shot.

Night, all.
Thanks for looking,
Rick

Muzikp

April 29th, 2012, 02:34 AM

Way to stick with it and end up with a great result that neck is looking good. Did you ever get all the frets seated all the way? Did you pre-bend them to the radius? You don't really have to hit them very hard to get them in if everything is correct. I over bend mine a bit, tap them in on the ends and then two taps in the middle and 90% of the time it works everytime :lol:. Sure hope you don't have any high ones. If you need to pull more of them use your soldering iron to heat them before pulling them out and use a pair of whatever these are

http://i.imgur.com/5dKiI.jpg (http://imgur.com/5dKiI)

I ground mine flat on the end so they get under the fret easily. Once these get under the fret and you've applied heat you can usually wiggle the fret out slowly without chipping the fret board. Good luck.

Muzikp

April 29th, 2012, 02:41 AM

Oh are you using a dead blow bag or dead blow hammer? I rest my neck on a burlap bag of shotgun pellets which makes a great dead blow bag. It helps.

R. Stratenstein

April 29th, 2012, 10:21 AM

Thanks for the tips and compliments, Muzikp.

To answer your questions, no I didn't get all the frets in all the way. I do have a few high ones, and I plan to go back and ID them, and pound a bit more. I'm using Grizzly fret wire which I've seen others use successfully, but it may not be the best quality, or consistent. The fret wire does come pre-bent, and it looks like about a 9" radius, so there's plenty of curve on it, don't think that's the problem.

One thought that did occur to me is that if the tang width of the wire is not consistent, that could cause my problem, but because of the tangs, there isn't a place you can get a good reading with a dial caliper. It may be just fine, but I don't know.

Im going to try the trick about infiltrating the fret slots with CA clue, then clamping the fret ends down with brass or other soft rods, and clamp the hell out of it to try and stick the ends down. Except for a couple of ends that are a bit high, so far as I can tell now, even the ones that didn't seat completely are close enough so a typical leveling job will bring them into level. I've done that, although I'd hoped this one would come out dead on--that's why I bought the press.

I have a rifle rest that's similar to what you describe as a cradle for the neck, and I'll use that to cushion the neck for more pounding. I'm using not a deadblow hammer, but a typical yellow-plastic and rubber hammer (both soft) to pound frets.

R. Stratenstein

April 29th, 2012, 10:26 AM

This photo didn't load properly last night while my internet was running so dably (and not much better today, either). I took the neck out in the fading twilight for some even lighting.

http://i.imgur.com/w****.jpg

Hmm, looks like the crappy internet connection corrupted the upload to Imgur. Let's try it directly from my computer:

junk mutt

April 29th, 2012, 04:06 PM

R. Stratenstein

April 29th, 2012, 10:03 PM

Nice work on the neck R.strat, cool radius jig too. I'll have to build me one of those.
Forgive me if I missed it but did you allow for the router bit? I'm sure I read somewhere that if you wanted a 10" radius you have to cut an 11" arc if your router bit protrudes from the base 1"?

Good point junk mutt. I did allow for it, but not nearly enough. I neglected to mention that in the post, too.:oops:
I did not anticipate how high the router would sit above the workpiece, so in truth, I likely don't have a true 10" radius. However, the sandpaper (radius) block is a true 10", and by the time you've finished cleaning up the neck, it's a true 10" radius. Might have been a tiny bit less sanding, but as you can see in the photo of the test piece with the block resting on it, the radius wasn't off by much. And since the neck was taller, the router bit did not stick out so far, so it was closer to true 10".

alexlaguna29

April 30th, 2012, 10:02 AM

Man, your radiusing jig is soooo sweeet! I got to get me one of those! Can't wait to see your thing put together!

Barncaster

April 30th, 2012, 10:15 AM

Hey R,

Gotta love the "Doh!" moments. Beautiful radius jig. Like everyone says here, everything is fixable. Love the positive attitude.

Barncaster

RogerC

April 30th, 2012, 10:39 AM

Man, I definitely feel your pain. My first neck was a nightmare. I had pretty much the same issues as you, and my problems were all caused by several things--

1)slot not wide enough
2)crooked slots
3)poor hammering technique

The first item is the most important. Make sure your slots are the correct width. If anything, make them a little wider because you can always glue them in place.

Because I tried to cut my slots freehand more or less, my saw entered crooked. As a result, one edge of my fret would be against the board while the other had a gap. No amount of hammering was going to fix this.

Poor hammering technique will cause you a lot of grief when it comes to levelling as well. Start at the ends and work your way toward the middle. That will help them seat properly. And you don't have to "hammer" very hard. Hard blows will deform the fret tops.

R. Stratenstein

May 2nd, 2012, 12:55 AM

Ok, honeysuckle is great.....now, how does the radius sled work? :smile:

Could you post a video of it in action?

Hope the white blooms don't get you down.:wink:

OK, BRO6623, you asked for it. I had to learn how to shoot & save movies, edit them, upload aYoutube Video and set up an account, embed it in TDPRI, this has been good practice.

I demonstrate the jig on a piece of 2x4 that splintered a little bit--would be a lot more careful than I was in the video on a real piece of wood. Sorry about all the "uhhhs and Ummmms"--I am no orator nor narrator.
/v/NBD18ry3ADs?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NBD18ry3ADs?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

espike

May 2nd, 2012, 04:43 AM

Struggled on the frets as well for the first few necks, and now i do m like this, which works for me:
I have a second (wooden) radius block, which i use to press the fret in, important part of this trick, is to press it in, then tighten in it with a big glue clamp. consider the radius block end of life, cause u will press the frets in, but it's ok, cause after it's dented, it won't go deeper, cause u will not be hammering on it. Tightening a decent glue clamp should be more then enough force.
Make sure the radius block is not centered, but let one side be alligned to the side of the fretboard.
now whack the fret from the side u can access once or twice, so it moves a mm or so sideways
Now it will stay exactly where u want it, without any glue.
as a precaution, i press a wrench on the fret, and then hammer the wrench so i don't accidently hit my fretboards. (saved me a lot of cursing already)

BTW i figured this technique out, affter my third refret of an ebony fretboard, u seem to be at a similar amount of retries. I wish u good luck

R. Stratenstein

May 2nd, 2012, 10:12 PM

R. Stratenstein

May 2nd, 2012, 10:34 PM

And I need to get it in gear! Got a bit done today after work.

First up was to complete the neck route, since my 1/2" pattern bits came in. Unfortunately, they have 1/4" shanks, I prefer 1/2", they're more solid and don't whip at all, but you take what you can get. Clamped the neck pocket template on one last time, and fired up the router. I was able to dial in the depth right to within .005, by my caliper, and got the pocket fully routed.

http://i.imgur.com/WaHMv.jpg

Clamped the neck in, ran a couple of lines down the middle and the sides, and everything seems to line up OK, so it's time to set the bridge. My original 25.5 scale mark was right on, so that was a relief, too.

I first saw the bridge drilling technique in Jack Wells' challenge thread year before last, and decided to use it. First, made up a bigger table to bolt securely to the drill press table.

http://i.imgur.com/vu6BH.jpg

Made recesses for bolt heads, then screwed it down.

Drilled with a 1/8" bit about 1/2" deep. Then made my locating pin by sacrificing a Harbor Freight 1/8" bit. Held it in pliers, against the grinder on several sides until I made a gouge all around the bit. Then snapped it off with pliers, ground and sanded the ends smooth.

http://i.imgur.com/DAinj.jpg

Chuck a good 1/8" bit in the drill press, and align it perfectly with the pin.
http://i.imgur.com/Xkliv.jpg

OpenG Capo4

May 2nd, 2012, 11:19 PM

I use this method for doing ferrules all the time. I'm thinking I can probably also use it to do "stepped" holes for tuning keys as well.

R. Stratenstein

May 2nd, 2012, 11:53 PM

I saw somebody else use the actual bridge for a drilling template. Freehand ! Sounds good to me. Worked well for me. Located the bridge, screwed it in place, and drilled in about 1/2" with a 1/8" bit. Here I'm removing the screws after completing the operation. You can see the sawdust around the string holes.

http://i.imgur.com/LqF0a.jpg

Next, slip the guitar (front side) over the locating pin. This should allow you to drill right to the end of the pin in the previously drilled hole. It gives you nicely aligned string holes front and back, whereas drilling straight through with only a 1/8" diameter bit is a risky proposition, especially with harder woods, as the thin bit can easily be forced to wander.

http://i.imgur.com/isn3C.jpg

First hole's the toughest, with all that pristine, untouched wood. Hope I set this up right!

Worked well. the through holes were perfectly aligned, front and back.

http://i.imgur.com/P7iE2.jpg

Measured for the ferrules. They're the original Tele style, so, I'm going to inset them flush with the back.

http://i.imgur.com/opucm.jpg
Looks like Mr. Gearhead approves.

Started with the bit for the shank of the ferrule. Brad point bit fit perfectly, and followed the existing hole without wandering. Used the same method as for the 1/8" thru-holes, using the locating pin in the holes on the front of the guitar.

http://i.imgur.com/GmnEM.jpg

I'd like to report that everything went swimmingly, sadly, that is not the case. :sad: The 3rd string hole gave me problems. After I'd drilled the larger diameter hole, it was clearly not aligned. The real kicker is that although it was only a little off, when I turned the guitar over, the pin was not in that hole, it was still in the no. 2 string hole. I have no idea how I did that, or why the thing was only slightly off, but it was.. In the photo above, I've just finished drilling the problem hole with the forstner bit to accept the ferrule flange, so it will be inlet into the surface. It partially, but not completely, hid the boo-boo.

Well, anyway, the ferrules ended up fitting pretty well. You can see no. 3 is cocked a little bit, I touched up the hole very slightly with the bit, and got it to sit flat like the others, and in pretty good alignment.

http://i.imgur.com/VdR2A.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WPA3s.jpg

For my first shot at this, not too bad.

Next, I drilled the neck mounting holes. . I had "starter" holes partially drilled through the body, from the template. I checked them against the plan, through drilled the front two holes with the specified diameter bit. (#19, I think it was), all the way through. Then I flipped the guitar over, and used the mounting plate, aligning it on the holes drilled through, to locate, mark, and center punch, to ensure the holes were perfectly placed to fit the plate I have. Then I drilled through from the back, into the neck pocket.

http://i.imgur.com/uiUwQ.jpg

Finally, I clamped the neck into its pocket, and drilled the pilot holes for the screws through the body and into the neck.

R. Stratenstein

May 3rd, 2012, 12:05 AM

I use this method for doing ferrules all the time. I'm thinking I can probably also use it to do "stepped" holes for tuning keys as well.

Probably could, but you'd be working with much closer tolerances, i.e. the thickness of the peghead vs. the thickness of the body for ferrule drilling. Also, once you thickness the peghead, you'll have an offset, so that you won't be able to lay the front of the peghead flat on your pin board. Probably are clever ways around this, maybe drill before you thickness the peghead?

R. Stratenstein

May 3rd, 2012, 12:28 AM

Next up are the wiring holes through the body. I have a nice small diameter long bit, but some of the wire routes run through the hollow chambers, and might get misdirected. So I also used a 3/0" bell hanger bit, left over from my security alarm days.

http://i.imgur.com/n3Iluh.jpg

I even remembered to drill the bridge ground wire hole!

Next up is the back edge round over. I used a 1/4" radius, probably too big for purists, but I like the look, and it takes some of the "slabbiness" look away.

http://i.imgur.com/vTfXR.jpg
I used my little router table for this, as it has the 1/4" shank collet router in it. Works OK if youre careful to be aware of where the body is at all times, so you don't let it tip while routing.
Here I've put blue tape on the sides to show where to stop the roundover so I don't go under where the neck mounting plate will be.

http://i.imgur.com/P16Oh.jpg

Except for a little burning (I need to clean the bit), it did well. The burning will sand off easily.

R. Stratenstein

May 3rd, 2012, 12:36 AM

Because of the small memory of my old computer, but mainly because of the horrible, slow internet service of AT&T, It's taking far, far too long to post anything. I'll try to finish up tomorrow.

Thanks for looking, Rick

And bite me, At&T.

crazydave911

May 3rd, 2012, 03:44 AM

And bite me, At&T.
Trade 'em in for cable internet. You'll never go back :wink:

R. Stratenstein

May 3rd, 2012, 05:26 PM

Trade 'em in for cable internet. You'll never go back :wink:

I wanted to, but Comcast wanted $3000 just to run the cable 400' from the street to my house. Didn't charge my neighbor for that, and they'll make their money back, so whatsupwiffdat? Stupid monopolies.

alexlaguna29

May 3rd, 2012, 06:13 PM

Man, you are so close to finish it - I can smell it!

R. Stratenstein

May 3rd, 2012, 07:27 PM

Man, you are so close to finish it - I can smell it!

Thanks for the encouragement, Alex. It looks like a mile from here, and all I can smell is the stench of impending panic! :shock:

Anyway, at this point I've made some decisions that change my original intent. First is that instead of real binding, which I've never done before, I'm going to faux bind the thing. Desertgroomer, a/k/a Rico, was kind enough to send me the attachment for my little trim router that would let me make the binding groove--I'll use it for sure, but not this one. Thanks again, Rico.

Anyway, looking at the figure of the maple, and the thinness of my maple top, I think faux binding will look good if I do it well. I've never done it, either, but I have applied masking tape, and I have sanded (Oh, God, have I sanded!), so it looks like I have the fundamental skills. :cool:

Also because of the time factor, I'm going to revert to rattle-can lacquer. I have had good luck with fast-drying aerosols, specifically Minwax lacquer, and maybe even be in a position to buff it out in time. Not sure if Minwax has an aerosol sanding sealer for lacquers, but I'm sure I can find something.

Let's see if I can catch up with last night's work.

Having decided to use faux binding, instead of real binding, once I did the roundover on the back, I was free to drill the jack hole. I'm going to be using an Electrosocket fully recessed, so first step was to drill the flange hole, then followed up with the main hole for the socket's body, and then on into the control cavity with a smaller bit for the wire.

http://i.imgur.com/6XHOT.jpg
I just clamped the body down to my bench, and freehanded it. Worked good.

Went through my mental checklist of things to do, and SHAZAM ! The body fabrication is done. Just like that. I sanded off the burn marks and smoothed the roundover a bit with some sandpaper.

Then posed it for this picture to show off the nice rounded curves on the back
http://i.imgur.com/YXqhd.jpg

Then bumped my bench knocking the damn thing onto the concrete floor :oops: As the line goes in one of my favorite movies, "Throw Mama From the Train"---"You're a Clumsy Poop!"

I feel lucky that all the damage I can find is two dents in the roundover, probably where it hit the side of the bench on the way down! D'OH!
Hope I can steam those back up. Will give it the ole college try.

http://i.imgur.com/RfopC.jpg
Anyway, I put the neck in with 1 screw, tempted fate again, and propped it up for one more family portrait. The neck with untrimmed frets reminded me of a kid with braces.

http://i.imgur.com/du2xq.jpg

Luckily, it didn't fall this time.

Next will be sanding, sanding, sanding. . .

Thanks for looking, Rick