RogerC's 2012 Challenge Build Thread - COMPLETED

It's official. My hat's in the ring. I can't wait to get started because I've been toying with this idea since last year.

I'll be making a la cab copy out of... wait for it... cement! :shock: :mrgreen:

Stay tuned for all the gory details...

you will be making it out of ...what-what?

:lol: Yes. You heard me right. I've been researching ways to mix a light weight cement. the hard part will be molding in all the cavities, but i've been thinking about this pretty much non-stop for about 6 months now.

The overall theme will be kind of construction related I guess. I've got some special details planned that will be pretty sweet.

Neck will be mahogany with a walnut fretboard. GFS Vintage Nashville filtertron pup. Rear routed... ok, not routed really, but molded I guess.

Didn't see that one coming...looking forward to this.

Well, if you're not gonna make the neck outta cement, what's the point? LOL!
Gonna be pretty cool to watch! Good to see you participating!

the 2010 challenge had a concrete caster entry. He wasn;t able to finish though.
there was some unforseen problems that arose. You may benefit from the lessons learned part of his thread.

btw. the rooftopCaster was heavier.

Someone's already tried it?! :oops: Dang. Oh well, I'll give it a shot anyway. Somewhere in the back of my mind I'd figured someone around here had probably tried it before, but I was really hoping I was a first. Well, maybe I'll be the first to actually finish it. I do have a theme that I'll be working from. It'll kinda be a La Constructionita...

Concrete with rebar necks are known for sustain !! This is gonna be cool.

This should be good. I'll be watchin'.

It's official. My hat's in the ring. I can't wait to get started because I've been toying with this idea since last year.

I'll be making a la cab copy out of... wait for it... cement! :shock: :mrgreen:

Stay tuned for all the gory details...

And they call ME, crazy :lol:.

Sounds cool, good to see ya in :grin:

Dave

Concrete with rebar necks are known for sustain !! This is gonna be cool.
I don't have any rebar. could I substitue cocobolo instead? :lol:

And they call ME, crazy :lol:.

Sounds cool, good to see ya in :grin:

Dave

Thanks Dave. The difference is that you're crazy like Nicolai Tesla while I'm more like that guy who sniffs paint and rides his bicycle down the middle of the road :lol:

Thanks Dave. The difference is that you're crazy like Nicolai Tesla while I'm more like that guy who sniffs paint and rides his bicycle down the middle of the road :lol:
I always heard folks talk about them Okies :lol:, I didn't figure my fellow Texans knew what they talking about :roll:

Good luck to you Roger :wink:

Dave

I always heard folks talk about them Okies :lol:, I didn't figure my fellow Texans knew what they talking about :roll:

Good luck to you Roger :wink:

Dave

Thank you, Dave. I do appreciate it, and I'll need all the luck I can get...

Good luck to you as well

Do you already have a concrete plan?

Do you already have a concrete plan?

And with a firm foundation I hear :wink:

The idea was firmly cemented in my mind a while back

cool idea. good luck Roger.

Got your uranium tuners yet?

Are you set on using concrete?

I like this! I was very disappointed that the last guy didn't get finished with his as the idea is really interesting. I mean if they can make boat hulls out of concrete I don't see why a guitar body wouldn't work as well. The building I live in is all concrete and my experience here makes me pretty surer a guitar would have very good acoustical properties. Go for it! :grin: :grin: :grin:

I say go for it! It can't be any heavier than this 1970s Les Paul I had when I was a teenager.

Thanks guys. I'll be starting my form construction tonight, but I won't be able to complete it because I have to get my bridge and pup in first to make sure my measurments are accurate. This will be difficult for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that math is not my strong suit (English degree):shock::lol:

I mean, I can count and all, but...

looks like you're going to need a bigger strap....:lol: Good Luck, can't wait to see this one unfold...errr...form up...

Who needs intonation anyway?? Slab the bridge on, secure it with drywall screws and forget about it... :D
Calculation is for pussie's.

looks like you're going to need a bigger strap....:lol: Good Luck, can't wait to see this one unfold...errr...form up...
I've got an idea to reduce the weight. We'll see if it works

Who needs intonation anyway?? Slab the bridge on, secure it with drywall screws and forget about it... :D
Calculation is for pussie's.

I was thinking about just putting 5 frets on there. I never play above that anyway :razz:

That idea sounds really cool Roger! Cant wait to see how you achieve a manageable weight.

Looking forward to this one Roger. Thinking of adding tint to the concrete as the finish? Or embedding pieces of glass, metal, tile etc...?

Good luck!

Robert

No, Robert. It's just going to be raw cement. The plan is to use construction materials- cement, wood, bolts, screws, etc...

I had thought of plaster and cement too. We have a ceramics shop down the road and I even considered pouring a slipcaster......LOL...

Decided the mold wasn't worth the effort for me....this should be fun to watch. Good luck with it all.

Going to be interesting, fo' sho' - cheering you on Roger

Thanks man. I appreciate that. With all the heavy hitters here, I'm waaay outclassed:lol:

I'm thinkin' that will indeed be a heavy hitter. You must play some rough places.
Good luck - I'm looking forward to seeing it.

The group shot. We have tempered masonite, 2" extruded styrofoam, mahogany, walnut, misc dowel rods, and oh yeah a 94lb bag of portland cement :mrgreen:
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1907.jpg

Oh, and my secret weapon for mixing up a light weight batch
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1921.jpg
The theory is that the lighter perlite will lower the density of the mix, thereby causing it be lighter. It sounds good anyway :razz:

The styrofoam will be my outside form. First thing I had to do was get it to a manageable size
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1908.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1909.jpg

Next, I marked its center line, laid out my template and traced
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1917.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1918.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1919.jpg

I then had to mark out my neck pocket area
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1920.jpg
You'll notice that it's upside down. I debated on this for a while about which way to make my form-- right side up or upside down. There were advantages and drawbacks to both, but I finally decided that there were more advantages to pouring the mold upside down.

Next I had to cut out the form. Start with a little hole...
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1925.jpg

And move to the scroll saw
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1926.jpg

Let me tell you, styrofoam is actually too easy to cut with a scroll saw. It didn't even matter which way my blade was facing. I was cutting sideways even :confused:. All in all, after a little sanding with a worn out piece of 320, it turned out very nice
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1927.jpg

I have it sitting on my piece of masonite which will act as the base. The idea is that the smooth surface will make a smooth face on the front of the guitar as it dries. It will also act as an anchor for the internal parts of the mold.

Next up, neck and fretboard stock...

Here's my mahogany neck stock with my template on to mark for rough length
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1910.jpg

Next was trimming to rough length. don't have to be too precise at this point
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1911.jpg

Since the neck stock was too narrow, I had to glue on an ear. First I had to prep the top edge
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1912.jpg

Since my jointer isn't that great, I finished up the jointing surface on my plate glass/sandpaper surfacer
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1913.jpg

I then cut off a section to make the ear
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1914.jpg

And busted out the titebond and clamps in preparation
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1915.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1916.jpg
If you look closely, it kinda looks like a dragon. RAWR

Then I turned my attention to a piece of scrap walnut for a fretboard. I picked out the thickest one and started to trim it down to a manageable shape
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1922.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1923.jpg
The only thing I'm a little worried about is the small knot area. It looks like it's going to fall around the 16th fret or so, and mainly be in line with a fret slot. I'll just have to see how it works out. I can always cut a piece from my larger stash if I need to.

Not bad progress for the first evening. I'll be focusing on the neck for the next week or so. I'll have to wait until my taxes come back before I can afford to buy any hardware.

Great progress, I'm curious to see how this turns out, it's a cool idea.

...I'm curious to see how this turns out...

You and me both :lol:

"And he's out of the gates runnin' " or so someone once said to me.

This is going to be really interesting.

cool. cant wait to see how this one goes.

I still can't believe this is happening. I just can't imagine how you are going to pull it off but I already can't wait for the next update.

I love the smell of concrete in the morning! Bold choice. Chicken wire mesh? I polished my concrete floor and sprayed it with stain, surprisingly smooth. Holds up well.

Hey Joe, how does that floor sound when you drop something on it? Could be Roger will get a good finish AND tone.

oops

I love the concept man. My wife and I were just talking about a concrete guitar a few weeks ago. We just had our floors acid stained and I thought it would be a cool finish on a guitar which led me to ponder a full concrete guitar. I just wasn't sure how or if it could be done. I can't wait to see this one.

If this concept works out, that definitely opens up a whole new slew of finishing options. That's for sure.

I'm hoping to get some neck work done tonight and then set up some tests. I need to see what kind of ratio I need with my cement and perlite. I also need to test some release agents to make sure my body doesn't stick to any part of my form. lastly, I'll have some dowel rods stuck inside the finished body to use as anchor points for my bridge, pickguard and rear control plate screws. I've got an idea on how to make sure the dowels are secure, but I need to test that as well.

Brilliant idea! I'm really looking forward to seeing this unfold.
Super curious about the tone... and the weight.
For a second there I almost thought you were going to use the styrofoam for a core.

I had a book on building your own concrete countertops. My favorites were the counters that were tinted and that had small objects pressed in to the wet cement before drying. Don't know if these are things you've considered but they looked cool in some countertops. (I don't necessarily like this one but it was a picture I found quickly. You get the idea).

http://www.concretedecor.net/images/Feature_Photos/CD702/Artisan/Braswell-Oppenheimer.jpg

Yeah, I did some research on concrete counter tops a couple of years ago (that's where I got the idea to use a smooth material to smooth the face during curing). I'm not going to do any inclusions (except for the dowel rod anchors) in this one because it'll be more industrial than decorative.

Well, I'd had grand plans for getting quite a few things done tonight, but...

Let's start here...

**Do NOT attempt to make a neck how I'm doing it here**

This is my crappy neck template on my neck blank. This was the first template I ever made, and it's made out of particle board. There are several divots and stuff. I thought about making another template before I started, but then I thought "nah, there are already a couple of threads with good neck templates being made"
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1928.jpg

So I attached it to my blank with double sided tape and headed to the scroll saw
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1929.jpg

Got pretty close to the line and then went to the BOSS, which apparently I forgot to get pics of :roll:

I got it pretty close to the template and then got out the router. I neglected to get those pics, but I did get a pic of some of the results
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1933.jpg
eeeewwwwwwww :shock:. Looks like the fairways after the last round I played-- lots o' divots

So then it had a date with my favorite tool-- the plate glass/sandpaper thingy.
A little off here...
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1935.jpg

And a little off here...
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1934.jpg
And a little off in a few other spots as well.

I finally got it to be somewhat acceptable
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1936.jpg

Don't worry, I can already hear you screaming about all the ways that I did this wrong. I know, I know. But I did do one thing right tonight...

http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1932.jpg
If you can't make it out, that's the old template.


So take all the time and focus I spent working on the neck and multiply that by how tired I already was. I just didn't feel up to doing anything else tonight. I'm sure it would've ended up in frustration, so I'm now in the house getting a bite to eat and spending time with the fam. I'm sure I'll be in bed early tonight as well... For tomorrow is another day

Don't need no stenkin' template. Cut it big and sand it to shape! My template is beat to death and I haven't finished 1 neck yet.

I want a plate glass/sandpaper thingy.

That's where that template oughta be anyway, good decision! I've never made a Tele
neck, so I figure it'll be easier just "winging" it. That way, I won't know how much I
screwed up.

I built my first two or three necks like that as well, except I used a long, flat sanding beam. Works just fine, although it is a lot of work. I'm really glad I use neck templates now, lol.

Good going Roger. Template offends? Template gots to go. No looking back.
Rooting for ya!

Thanks guys. I'll make another template eventually, but next time I'll do it properly.

Tiskit, I just went to the local glass place and bought a cutoff. It cost me all of $5. I just stick some sandpaper to it, and off I go. For me it's a crucial piece of equipment because I don't have any precision tools. As simple as it is, it does a way better job of giving me a nice, flat surface than anything else I have

A little progress today. I knew I'd have a while to wait before I got my hardware in, so I wanted to use this time to rig up some test plates. Here's the plan...

Mix the cement and perlite in 3 different ratios and pour them into standardized molds. I'll also test 2 different release agents and an anchor design.

First up was marking out my test molds
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1942.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1943.jpg

And them cutting them out on the scroll saw
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1944.jpg

After some final internal sanding, they're ready to go
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1945.jpg

My first trial mix. 1:1 cement to perlite
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1946.jpg

I used 1 liter total dry volume and mixed up 3 different ratios-- 1:1, 2:1, 3:1. I also tested 2 release agents-- spray vegetable oil and silicone spray. For my anchor trial, I took a large dowel and used my dremel to carve some upward facing barbs. The smaller dowel you see in the middle plate is just to test my vegetable oil release agent on the wood.
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1948.jpg

Whatever you do don't pour the concrete into the mould. Pouring it can result in pour (poor) tone. :mrgreen:

I'm enjoying this thread by the way - it'll be great to see how it turns out and what it sounds like.

Very cool Rog - Im in!

This is gonna be a rock-solid build! I'm so excited to see how this finishes up, if I'm not
careful, my wife's going to think I'm having an "internet affair".

Thanks fellas. I'll try to keep it interesting :smile:

While my test plates are curing, I figured I'd do some more work on the form.

First thing I did was go mark my 1.5" fill line around the inside
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1949.jpg

Next I wanted to work on the neck pocket area. The original idea was to cut the foam to form the pocket. I've been struggling with it because I have to think in terms of negative. It's been a brain strain for sure :lol:
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1950.jpg

Next I marked the center line on my neck (front and back)
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1951.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1952.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1953.jpg

I taped a string to the headstock so that I could use it to line up my neck center line with my template center line
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1954.jpg

Then I used a razor blade to cut around the neck. My hope was to fashion a nice, tight neck pocket by doing this just as you would on a wood body. The problem, though as I said earlier, is thinking in terms of negatives. I have to keep in mind that was I cut out is where the cement will be, and what I leave will be the void areas.
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1955.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1956.jpg

I wasn't able to get it cut very cleanly, so I went to plan B. I cut out the foam and will shape a piece of mdf to put in there instead.
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1957.jpg

First thing is to get a scrap piece down to useable size
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1959.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1960.jpg

I then put my neck on and traced around it, took it to the BOSS and shaped it. I then set up my thicknessing rig and started getting it down to proper thickness
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1961.jpg

I had a couple of issues, so I didn't get it done tonight, but I've got a good start on it. Once it's done, I'll use double sided tape to attach it to my masonite base in the proper position. This should give me a nice, even, smooth neck pocket *fingers crossed*

Well this is one of those strange combinations of crazy and awesome :lol:

This is looking really nice, Roger. I can't wait to see what your cement tele is going to look like.

This is why challenge season is such fun every year: one thread's got a guy making a guitar out of popsicle sticks, while another one is using concrete.

I'm in awe. Your concrete build and czook's attempt to kiln-dry a stump in his oven are two of the most suspenseful things I've seen lately.

:lol::lol: Thank you guys.

Picton, I know what you mean. This challenge brings out some crazy stuff that would probably never get built otherwise, and it's all awesome to watch

Man, I'm just hangin--the suspense is killing me--will it be the 1:1, or the veggie oil, or maybe 3:1 ?, what if the silicone melts the Perlite? What if the perlite makes big zit-looking bumps in the surface?~~what if, what if, what if. Gotta stay tuned.

This is why challenge season is such fun every year: one thread's got a guy making a guitar out of popsicle sticks, while another one is using concrete.

I'm in awe. Your concrete build and czook's attempt to kiln-dry a stump in his oven are two of the most suspenseful things I've seen lately.

+1 - And I think Scatter's got some skin in the game... This is a great forum!

+1 - And I think Scatter's got some skin in the game... This is a great forum!

It's brilliant isn't it! Sort of like a guitar maker's Mythbusters.

Heh heh, concrete! :grin:

Cool Roger , very interesting , I'll be watching this one .

Wow- Use a rebar truss rod!
This is awesome!

Great going roger, Keep up the craziness, ;-)

When we last left our hero, he was fidgeting with a neck pocket form...

Got that sorted this morning. After getting it to 5/8" thickness, I marked my center lines on it and on my masonite base.
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1965.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1967.jpg

Put it all together, and you get this...
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1968.jpg

Next step for the form will be marking out a line at 25.5" so that I know where to position my bridge form. I won't make my bridge or pickup forms until I get those parts in though. I will, however, be working on my control cavity form today probably. Stay tuned for that...


Now for what everyone has been eagerly awaiting-- The results of the cement tests. Were they cured well enough to take them out of the forms?
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1962.jpg

Indeed they were, so out they came

I had them curing while sitting on a piece of formica, and you can see that it left a nice, smooth face
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1963.jpg

I gained a lot of valuable data from the test.

1st, the vegetable oil was the superior release agent. It worked great.
2nd, the smooth curing surface worked perfectly to give me a nice smooth face.
3rd, I found that I can mix a pretty wet mix and still get excellent results. As a matter of fact, the pieces that are the roughest, are the drier mixes.
4th, my anchor idea worked great as well
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1964.jpg

And lastly, the 1:1 ratio was CONSIDERABLY lighter than the others. My circles were 6.5" in diameter, and I filled them 1.5" deep. The difference in weight between the 1:1 batch vs the 3:1 batch (cement to perlite) was quite amazing. I don't really have an accurate scale, so I can't weigh them, but the difference was quite apparent just by holding each of them. So it looks like I have a clear formula to move ahead.

cool test. reminds me of programs where they are testing the concrete to be used in a skyscraper. :mrgreen:

the faces will be smooth, but how will you smooth out any rough edges and contours? just wondering. :)

That's sooooo cool, Roger. Any thoughts to using like a concrete saw to cut out for
you pickups/bridge/etc?

the faces will be smooth, but how will you smooth out any rough edges and contours? just wondering. :)
I'm not doing any contours, so no worries there. As for the edges, I'll probably use emery cloth. It's a bit sturdier than sandpaper and should work fine so soften any rough edges.

That's sooooo cool, Roger. Any thoughts to using like a concrete saw to cut out for
you pickups/bridge/etc?

I don't think I could get a small enough blade to cut the pockets, plus think how difficult it would be using your skil saw to do the same thing on a wood body. I'll mold the cavities so that everything will be set. Then all I have to do is plug in the parts. Simple right? :wink: *crosses fingers*

Cool ...rock on.....literally

This is a crazy-cool build! And your approach is looking great to me! Even if you fail, and i'm betting you won't, it takes a lot of guts to even attempt this. Kudos to you, and i can't wait to see the outcome!

Thank you, guys. I'm hoping it works out ok. My wife was asking me why I'm doing this, and unfortunately I didn't really have an answer lol. I'm not sure myself, but if it works, it'll be cool to say, "yeah, I built a cement guitar" :grin:

I spent most of the afternoon working on the jazzmaster, but there was one last thing I wanted to get done for today. There was a key piece I needed still...

Hmmm, those look about right
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1974.jpg

Do a little of this
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1977.jpg

Put that there
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1978.jpg

And voila!
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1976.jpg

I've got them sunk into the form deep enough so that, hopefully, they'll stay anchored as the cement dries. I'll just tear the form off around them, leaving the heads out for my strap buttons.

Construction themed guitar--
cement - check
wood -check
lag bolts - check
screws - coming up in a later installment

Thank you, guys. I'm hoping it works out ok. My wife was asking me why I'm doing this, and unfortunately I didn't really have an answer lol. I'm not sure myself, but if it works, it'll be cool to say, "yeah, I built a cement guitar" :grin:
that's kinda like asking, "Why'd you climb that mountain?". There are some things you just need to do.
My wife asked me the same thing. She was thinking that I was trying to win. I looked here straight in the eye and told her I didn't have a chance. She said, "Then, why?" My answer was because it was mad fun. That was enough for her.

Very cool/insane ...

Does it have a name yet? Can I suggest terrazzocaster?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrazzo

Those are the coolest strap buttons I've ever seen. Think you'll still need the Grolsch gromets?

Roger,

This is awesome. Now if you can get lots of sparkly stuff in the mix it would be sweet. This is truly a Flintstonian build!

Barncaster

More! More!! :grin:

Glass would be a good surface for your mold to get a nice smooth surface. Perhaps you can vibrate the mixture after pouring to bring the bubbles up from the surface?

I'll like to see how you go about creating the negatives for the pickup leads to the control cavity.

You are certainly ambitious!

I'll like to see how you go about creating the negatives for the pickup leads to the control cavity.

Paraffin tubes, and melt them away after the concrete has dried?



s.

Sweet build, love the creativity!

From the darkest reaches of my youth, which as my son says was when the dinosaurs walked the earth, I vaguely recall my concrete pouring days. We used a vibrator on the mix in the forms to get the slurry to fill all the gaps around the forms. If you poke yours with a vibrator when wet (you can read into that statement wherever you wish...:shock:) you should get a really smooth finish.

Cheers

Murray

Thank you for the input, guys. I will vibrate the mix when I do the actual pour. Seeing as how I don't have an actual concrete vibrator, I'll hit the all the sides, bottom, and top with my old craftsman sander lol. In theory it should work the same. As for the pickup leads, I've been thinking about using bendy straws. Still have to see what I come up with, but parafin cylinders (candles) wouldn't be a bad idea...

I'm sure you've already thought of this, Roger, but if you could fashion some type of
mini "Bull Float" that would help fill any voids and push bubbles up.

Whatever you do, I'm getting anxious to see this thing come to being, that's for sure.
This makes it worth joining the challenge for.

i'm confused by the "fill line"? why not just make a half inch spacer in the exact shape of the body and put it in the bottom of the form? then you could just float straight across the form.

better yet, glue foam blocks to the bottom plate for the pickup cavities so you didn't have to cut the cement after, you could just dig the foam out. but i'm sure you must have a plan for that already... i hope.:shock: great stuff, though.

I'm sure you've already thought of this, Roger, but if you could fashion some type of
mini "Bull Float" that would help fill any voids and push bubbles up.

Whatever you do, I'm getting anxious to see this thing come to being, that's for sure.
This makes it worth joining the challenge for.
Thanks, E. I've not quite figured out the bull float idea yet. I was just going to take a piece of formica and set on the top. I'll then use my palm sander to vibrate everything and hopefully bring out any bubble.

i'm confused by the "fill line"? why not just make a half inch spacer in the exact shape of the body and put it in the bottom of the form? then you could just float straight across the form.

better yet, glue foam blocks to the bottom plate for the pickup cavities so you didn't have to cut the cement after, you could just dig the foam out. but i'm sure you must have a plan for that already... i hope.:shock: great stuff, though.

With regards to the spacer at the bottom, it would just be an extra template I'd have to make. I've already planned to make forms for my cavities, so there won't be any digging out or cutting of cement.

If you can pull this off man, it will be one hell of a guitar

This is stark raving bonkers. I love it.

If you can pull this off man, it will be one hell of a guitar
Thanks man. I'm hoping so...

This is stark raving bonkers. I love it.
:lol: see my sig line

Just setting your palm sander on the form after you pour may be enough vibration to bring up the air bubbles. It seems you could press precut foam blocks into the surface while it is wet for the pup cavities and connect them with small tubing to run wire through to each other and the control pocket?

Fibers like they use in floor pours would give it strength, but you would have little hairs sticking up and would have to regularly shave your body. :shock:

Can't remember if you are still using the perlite to keep the weight down, but it will leave little soft spots all along the surface where it will tend to rise to the top and will leave little soft spots that will eventually crumble and erode.


Very cool concept.

Have you thought about a hoist like they use on wheelchairs to lift it up and hold it so you can stand and play it? :mrgreen:

Just setting your palm sander on the form after you pour may be enough vibration to bring up the air bubbles. It seems you could press precut foam blocks into the surface while it is wet for the pup cavities and connect them with small tubing to run wire through to each other and the control pocket?
Yep. See my quote above about the sander. And I've been thinking about my forms for the cavities for about 6 months now and thought I had it pretty well sorted, but you and volowv have given me a new idea that may be easier. I'll have to think on it a little more...

Can't remember if you are still using the perlite to keep the weight down, but it will leave little soft spots all along the surface where it will tend to rise to the top and will leave little soft spots that will eventually crumble and erode.
I am still using the perlite. One of the reasons that pouring the mold upside down won out was that if anything rose up, it would end up on the back of the body. I'll have to walk a tightrope during the vibration stage. I want to vibrate it enough to get it worked in well, but not enough that it brings all the lighter material to the surface.

This is good stuff. I always wanted a concrete guitar! Can't wait to see how this turns out.

And I'm not saying anything specific because my build hasn't made it too far yet, but you and I had some very similar ideas this year.

I spent most of the afternoon working on the jazzmaster, but there was one last thing I wanted to get done for today. There was a key piece I needed still...

Hmmm, those look about right
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1974.jpg

Do a little of this
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1977.jpg

Put that there
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1978.jpg


And voila!
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1976.jpg

I've got them sunk into the form deep enough so that, hopefully, they'll stay anchored as the cement dries. I'll just tear the form off around them, leaving the heads out for my strap buttons.

Construction themed guitar--
cement - check
wood -check
lag bolts - check
screws - coming up in a later installment

Roger,

For your strap buttons, you might want to think about using lag bolts instead of screws. Put a washer near the end with a nut on each side. This would help to prevent the bolt / screw from pulling out. I think that may be an issue given the weight of the body and that you are using perlite to lighten the mix. You'd hate to have this one drop on your foot if the strap button gives way!

Looking good so far. Keep the updates coming!

Robert

Roger, any thought to doing 2 pours on the body? I know less about concrete than I do
about wood working, so I'm mainly curious. But is there an adherence
issue, could you pour 1/2 way, then flip the form over and pour the other 1/2 and get two
smooth surfaces front and back?

Roger, very fun idea. You need to get a scale! :lol:
We need an estimate of the body weight ASAP!

Roger,

For your strap buttons, you might want to think about using lag bolts instead of screws. Put a washer near the end with a nut on each side. This would help to prevent the bolt / screw from pulling out. I think that may be an issue given the weight of the body and that you are using perlite to lighten the mix. You'd hate to have this one drop on your foot if the strap button gives way!

Looking good so far. Keep the updates coming!

Robert

Thanks, Robert. Take a look at those pics again-- those ARE lag bolts :wink:

Roger, any thought to doing 2 pours on the body? I know less about concrete than I do
about wood working, so I'm mainly curious. But is there an adherence
issue, could you pour 1/2 way, then flip the form over and pour the other 1/2 and get two
smooth surfaces front and back?
I'm not too sure. I'd be more worried about any complications that might arise doing it that way. I'll use a piece of formica on the side that's face up, and press it down with some weight to (hopefully) give it a smoother surface as well.

Roger, very fun idea. You need to get a scale! :lol:
We need an estimate of the body weight ASAP!

:lol: I'll see what I can do. I planned on getting a digital scale once I pour the body so that I can see what the weight really is. This is going to happen regardless of the final weight, so I'll have to see once it's all said and done.

If the surface is not smooth enough after the you take it out of the forms, I bet you can finish it like they do marble. Use some water and pumice then burnish it with a scotch brite pad on the end of a drill or buffer. You may even be able to ease the edges the same way. Not that I really know anything about it, just throwing it out there.

Copper tubing for the pickup wire runs, self shielding. Maybe copper foil forms for the pickup cavities, again self shielding.

Gotta see this one when it comes out of the mold...rock on!

Roger,

For your strap buttons, you might want to think about using lag bolts instead of screws. Put a washer near the end with a nut on each side. This would help to prevent the bolt / screw from pulling out. I think that may be an issue given the weight of the body and that you are using perlite to lighten the mix. You'd hate to have this one drop on your foot if the strap button gives way!

Looking good so far. Keep the updates coming!

Robert

I would be cool if the strap buttons just had threads sticking out instead of having a head on it. That way you could us two nuts and sorta have a strap lock type thing. I'd hate for this thing to fall on your toes.

Thanks, Robert. Take a look at those pics again-- those ARE lag bolts :wink:



OK, some people call those lag bolts and some call them lag screws. :) I should have said, you should really use a "Hex cap bolt" and place a washer on the end with a nut on each side.

But seriously, very cool build.

Roger

When your ready to pour I think you want to enclose your mold in a wooden frame. The weight of the concrete and the force used to work the concrete will bulge the sides out.

Roger

When your ready to pour I think you want to enclose your mold in a wooden frame. The weight of the concrete and the force used to work the concrete will bulge the sides out.

+1
It could expand enough to pop the form apart if not. Good point.

Just thought I'd serve up some motivation as I'm anxious to see this thing;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFyQXy74xz4&feature=youtu.be

If the surface is not smooth enough after the you take it out of the forms, I bet you can finish it like they do marble. Use some water and pumice then burnish it with a scotch brite pad on the end of a drill or buffer. You may even be able to ease the edges the same way. Not that I really know anything about it, just throwing it out there.
Hmmm interesting idea. I may have to do some research...

OK, some people call those lag bolts and some call them lag screws. :) I should have said, you should really use a "Hex cap bolt" and place a washer on the end with a nut on each side.

But seriously, very cool build.
Ah, gotcha. It would be extra insurance. I'll have to think about that.

Roger

When your ready to pour I think you want to enclose your mold in a wooden frame. The weight of the concrete and the force used to work the concrete will bulge the sides out.

Not likely. This foam is VERY rigid and will be held in place on my masonite base by carpet tape.

Just thought I'd serve up some motivation as I'm anxious to see this thing;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFyQXy74xz4&feature=youtu.be

Yeah, I remember seeing that some time ago. It did kind of inspire me to go this route.

I'm speechless...great work Roger!

Thank you, Mark. That means quite a bit coming from you.

Just got some good news. I don't know how many of you ever saw my post last year on screen printing logos, but here's what i was looking at...

I wondered if it was possible to screen print directly on the headstock instead of messing with decals. We have a screenprint shop here at work, so I got my logo sorted out finally and got my screens burned today. I'm pretty excited about it and will do some tests on scrap tonight. I'll post some pics when I get home. Hopefully the cement caster will be the first with my logo:mrgreen:

... Hopefully the cement caster will be the first with my logo:mrgreen:

Good luck with your logo. I've built over 2 doxen guitars to date and have yet to put a logo on even one. I'm shooting for the first on my Challenge build as well. :cool:

Geez Roger you're bl**dy mad enough to be an Aussie. Love the concept! Is your mix as light as Hebel Congrete?

For the wiring conduits I'd just use some plastic tubing fitted into the pick-up cavity block etc to wherever it has to go but make it a little oversize in case it compresses with the weight of the 'crete.

If you have one of those "Multi Tools" you could easily make an attachment to bolt onto that but the sander should work.

Keep up the crazy stuff!!

Re the logo why not have an impressed logo on the guitar front? Easy to do just make a thin template and lay it down on the mould face.

As for polishing, around here, all the Home Depots have removed tile (if they had it in the first place) from the floor, and have polished the concrete to a nice reflective sheen. No doubt you could go further with the process on your Seementcaster--nobody's gonna slip and fall while walking on it!

Here's the logo materials...

The screen. You can kind of see my logo there
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1980.jpg

Lay it on a piece of scrap
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1981.jpg

Squeegee some paint across
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1982.jpg

And VOILA!
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1984.jpg

My technique needs work. I seemed to press harder as I got to the end, so the lines aren't as crisp. I'm also going to try spraying a light coat of lacquer first as well.

I also messed up this screen. I was trying to clean it, but was unsuccessful. I tried mineral spirits, lacquer thinner, and plain water, but it never came clean enough to lay down another print. Luckily they made 2 for me.

Geez Roger you're bl**dy mad enough to be an Aussie. Love the concept!

:lol: I consider that an honor, Dave :lol:

As for polishing, around here, all the Home Depots have removed tile (if they had it in the first place) from the floor, and have polished the concrete to a nice reflective sheen. No doubt you could go further with the process on your Seementcaster--nobody's gonna slip and fall while walking on it!

I'm not sure I want to do a high-sheen polish. I want the guitar to have an industrial look to it.

i've been wondering about screen printing the headstock myself. I've put my logo on flat wood surfaces before, but the curve in the tele headstock presents problems for getting the screen flat on the face of the headstock. Are you going to be using a different style of headstock, or have you figured a way around this?

btw, i can't wait to see this thing finished!

Got a little more work done on the guitar as well by making my control cavity form.

This form will consist of a piece to form the lip that the cover will rest on, anchors into which I'll be able to screw the attachment screws, and a piece to form the cavity itself.

Tempered masonite to form the lip
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1986.jpg

Got it cut to shape and then drill the holes for the anchors
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1987.jpg

Use a 3/4" poplar dowel for the anchors. First need to measure. Since the body will be 1 1/2" thick, 1" should be fine for the anchors
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1988.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1989.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1990.jpg

Next I need to carve some upward-facing barbs so that the anchors will be held tightly in the body. Tool of choice-- the Dremel
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1992.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1993.jpg

Now I need to attach the control cavity. Using a couple of suggestions from earlier, I'll use a piece of my extruded foam. First I need some dimensions
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1994.jpg

90mm x 50mm seems to work well.

Next, how deep does the cavity need to be?
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1995.jpg

Cut out a piece of foam
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1996.jpg

And attach it to the base with double sided tape
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1997.jpg

I'll attach my input jack form and wire leads to the to the foam later.

i've been wondering about screen printing the headstock myself. I've put my logo on flat wood surfaces before, but the curve in the tele headstock presents problems for getting the screen flat on the face of the headstock. Are you going to be using a different style of headstock, or have you figured a way around this?

btw, i can't wait to see this thing finished!

It's not a problem at all. My screen is small enough to fit between the curve and the end.

Hi Roger...........Regarding the logo , why not get a rubber stamp made then it's very simple to apply, lasts for years, easy clean up, and you can easily change the colour any time you want, and you only have the initial expense.

Hey, I may be misunderstanding your idea here but when measuring your depth, shouldn't you be measuring the distance from the bottom of the pot to the threads. Not the other way?

Hi Roger...........Regarding the logo , why not get a rubber stamp made then it's very simple to apply, lasts for years, easy clean up, and you can easily change the colour any time you want, and you only have the initial expense.

I think an ink stamp would end up looking cheap. Hopefully with a screen I'll get a nice raised, glossy logo... hopefully. Also, with paint, I'll be able to change colors at will, with a lot more options than an ink pad. And as for initial cost, I have a grand total of $0 in this-- perks of working for a large company with their own art and screen print shop :grin:

Hey, I may be misunderstanding your idea here but when measuring your depth, shouldn't you be measuring the distance from the bottom of the pot to the threads. Not the other way?
This is a rear route, so I needed to know how far the post stuck up so that I know how much thickness I needed to leave for the top.

And progress continues-- slowly but surely.

I finished up my control cavity form tonight by adding the posts that will make the holes for my pots.
First I needed to see now big the opening needs to be. 3/8" should do it
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN1999.jpg

Take my dowel rod and cut it to length
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2000.jpg

Next I needed to know how far apart to put them...
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2001.jpg

And where to put them on the guitar
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2002.jpg

Drill some holes in the masonite base where I want to pots to come through...
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2003.jpg

Then drill the holes in the cavity form and stick it all together
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2004.jpg

The last thing I did today was to finish my neck pocket form. I had to do the same dowel rod trick to form the holes for the neck screws.

First I marked for the holes
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2005.jpg

Drilled them out using a 1/4" forstner bit
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2006.jpg

And Bob's your uncle
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2007.jpg

Since I don't have any hardware yet, all I have left to do is to make the form for my input jack/channel, and make my fretboard. I'll try to get to those later this week.

Dam dude, I wouldn't have the patience to do all that stuff. I bet it is going to be awesome.

Good work Roger , it seems you have all the details covered. Can't wait to see this :)

What are you going to use as a release agent on your masonite mould base?

What are you going to use as a release agent on your masonite mould base?

I'm sure Roger has it covered - but that stuff kids stick to their schoolbooks to keep them clean is great for things like that.

It's pretty much self-adhesive polyethelyne (nothing in the universe sticks to PE) in a wide roll for a couple of bux.

I'm actually going to use vegetable oil just as insurance. When i did my tests, I didn't use a release agent on one of the forms, and the cement came out very nicely without sticking to the foam or the formica. I'll use a brush to paint a light coat of veg oil on everything that I want to come out, though, just to make sure I don't hit any snags.

Dam dude, I wouldn't have the patience to do all that stuff. I bet it is going to be awesome.
It's funny, but I'm not usually a very patient person when it comes to building, but since I know I won't have my hardware or be able to pour for about a month, it makes it much easier to take my time with the details. Plus I've been thinking about this project for a year, so I already had most of the process down in my head before I even started.

Good work Roger , it seems you have all the details covered. Can't wait to see this :)

Thanks, Herb. I really admire your work, so I get a kick out of the fact that you're interested in something I'm doing.

I've thought more about this project than just about anything else I've ever done. I'm usually one of those guys who jumps in and figures it out as I go, but since I had to wait until a certain date to get started, all I COULD do was think about the process lol.

I don't know if I can wait a month for this pour, Roger. You may have to go ahead since
I don't have any patience. I know....I know, "schedules and all", but hey, whattya gonna do,
your public demands it.

It's obvious you've spent a lot of time thinking this through as I can't even begin to
think about how quickly screwed something like this up as I AM the "jump right in without
checking the depth" guy. Bump my head 95% of the time.

:lol: I know what you mean, E. I usually bump my head most of the time too. This is just one time that falls within that 5% margin so far.

I did have a new idea strike me today for the build. You know, one of those crazy, "I wonder if I could..." moments. I may raise the level of complexity slightly with a new design element. Hopefully details/pics will be forthcoming this evening after I get home from work and get time to tinker with it... :wink:

"Raise the level of complexity?" Gee, why not?

^:mrgreen:

As I mentioned earlier today, I had an epiphany. The thought had been brewing, and then I decided "why not give it a shot?". I mean, that's what this whole build is about, right?

My inspiration
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2008.jpg

Needed to get an idea of what kind of depth I'd need
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2012.jpg

Then mark out where I'll want it to be
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2009.jpg

Re-purpose the foam from my earlier experiment
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2013.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2014.jpg

And cut out the shape on my scroll saw
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2015.jpg

Had to do a little sanding and shaping to get it to match right, but I finally got it. I then had to transfer my line over
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2016.jpg

I also marked where I wanted the apex and then marked my depth measurement
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2019.jpg

Found out that I get a very clean cut with a hacksaw, so...
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2020.jpg

Did some shaping on the BOSS
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2022.jpg

And there ya go :grin:
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2024.jpg

One arm bevel mold. I'm probably going to remake it because one of the corners got messed up during shaping. Also, it's really weird thinking in terms of it being a negative. My natural vision wants to see a nice, soft slight convex flow, but if I shape it that way, then the actual bevel will be concave. I think it will go better with version 1.2 tomorrow.

^^call me crazy, and maybe it's the way the light is falling in that pic, but it looks like the forearm cut will be concave on the guitar, like the cut will be inside-out.:?::!:

cool idea though, and that's a beautiful strat you've got there. :grin:

Sure, Roger, add some "complexity" to the build. I mean, it was so simple and boring before, right?

Hahaha! You're awesome and I'm digging the forearm bevel. Abra, if you visualize the
neck plate floating on top, it might make the contour seem normal to you. I see what
you did there.

Good idea on the arm cut Roger , it'll look good and cut weight a bit also :wink:

Yeah, there's nothing worse than a concrete guitar thats just a touch too heavy. :mrgreen:

Yeah, there's nothing worse than a concrete guitar thats just a touch too heavy. :mrgreen:

Now that's funny :lol:

^^call me crazy, and maybe it's the way the light is falling in that pic, but it looks like the forearm cut will be concave on the guitar, like the cut will be inside-out.:?::!:

cool idea though, and that's a beautiful strat you've got there. :grin:

You're right, abra. That's another reason why I'm doing v1.2 tonight. I'm goign to try and tackle it with a different technique and see if it comes out any better.

As for the strat, thanks. It's a MIM standard with stock pups, but I upgraded to a tusq nut and full-size trem block. I also wired the 2nd tone control to the bridge. I LOVE this guitar.

Sure, Roger, add some "complexity" to the build. I mean, it was so simple and boring before, right?

Hahaha! You're awesome and I'm digging the forearm bevel...
Thanks, Eric. I really appreciate that.

Good idea on the arm cut Roger , it'll look good and cut weight a bit also :wink:
Believe it or not, the weight reduction wasn't even why I thought of doing it hehe. I just wanted to see if I could do it-- kinda like why I'm building this thing in the first place.

Yeah, there's nothing worse than a concrete guitar thats just a touch too heavy. :mrgreen:

:lol::lol:

This is a fine example of how to out Scatter, ScatterLee , Your absolutely mad, but I love it:mrgreen:

LOL. I wouldn't go that far. That man has more tricks up his sleeve than David Copperfield... or Chris Angel for you youngsters :lol:

wow, between concrete and tounge depressors this year is VERY interesting. Roger, your meticulous process is impressive to say the least.

Thanks man. This is what happens when you have a full year to think about a build, and an hour drive to work every day. I spent that entire hour (each way) thinking about the process and possible problems. We'll see what happens *crosses fingers*

Yeah, and I'm going to spend this next year figuring out how to make concrete tongue depressors
for my 2013 Challenge.

^:lol::lol: Well played, sir. Well played indeed :lol:

*edit*

I also think about this stuff while driving, so much so that when I snap out of it I usually have to figure out where I am and which way is the best way to get home from there.

I was thinking, you might as well make a belly cut, after all it'll be a month before you pour and you need something to think about while driving right?

I just realized it's too easy to recommend ridiculously difficult tasks in other people's builds :twisted:.

I also think about this stuff while driving, so much so that when I snap out of it I usually have to figure out where I am and which way is the best way to get home from there.

I was thinking, you might as well make a belly cut, after all it'll be a month before you pour and you need something to think about while driving right?

I just realized it's too easy to recommend ridiculously difficult tasks in other people's builds :twisted:.

I got the idea for my tartan paint job while driving home from work. Just sort of wondered whether anyone had ever done it; I came home, found very few Google images, and decided there was no good reason why not...

I have an idea as to how you could make the forearm contour more accurate. You could mask off the strat with painters tape, and put aggressive sandpaper on its contour. Then it's just the repetitive motion of moving the foam and cleaning the sandpaper.

OR you could forget the concrete idea and make a plaster cast of a tele, then fill it with liquid metal and wait for a while to let it cool down. Probably more expensive though... 2013 challenge?

I've heard of a guy from Kentucky that built a concrete guitar. I think it's on the Warmoth website under "other guitars.". I think this is the same guy playing it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppusLiJYKd4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

It sounds awesome. I think he said it wasn't all that heavy on the Warmoth site.

If you were interested in cutting weight, you might be able to float a thin piece of styrofoam in the middle. You'd pour a bit, then float that sheet of foam and pour the rest. It could even be attached to the foam bits I imagine you're putting in for the pickups and controls.

Here is a link to the concrete guitar I mentioned earlier:

http://www.warmoth.com:80/Gallery/GalleryEntry.aspx?id=926

Guy says it only weighs 7.5 pounds! That's pretty light.

way to represent oklahoma!!! will there also be duct tape and bailing wire involved lol.

LOL Thanks, Medic.

Thank you guys for following along. I really do appreciate the interest. I got kind of a bit of bad news yesterday, so I'm not sure if the project will be done by the deadline, but I'll do everything I can to get it finished. So with that, we have today's update...

I wanted to get the forearm bevel done, so I cut out another piece of foam
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2030.jpg

PHawley had a good idea, but I thought it might take too long, so what I ended up using my hacksaw to just cut the angle. I then used my plate glass/sandpaper rig to finish it off. Unfortunately I didn't snap any pics of that. But I do have a finished shot
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2038.jpg

Again, I'll do my best to finish it by the deadline, but even if I don't I'll continue to work on it as I can and post updates so that everyone will get a chance to see it finished. Thanks all!

I hate bad news. I hope everything is alright with you & your family.

Thanks. Yes, we are fine. Let's just say that Uncle Sam decided to be a rat b@stard this year...

Uncle Sam is ALWAYS a rat b@stard this time of year. Unlike your build, I am NOT a fan
of tax time.

I'm sorry to hear about the setback Roger. I've been really enjoying your boundless creativity. Hopefully things will get better for you all.

Come to think about it if it's about tax why don't you just throw some tea into a body of water and secede from the union?:mrgreen: It worked for you guys last time around by all accounts:mrgreen:

I'm following this one to the end no matter how long it takes Rog - I am having so much fun taking in everyone's ideas and this one is a cracker! :wink:

Thats a bummer Roger this is such a cool build when ever you can take another step on it i'll certainly be watching. Hope everything works out for ya.

me too. all the best and I hope it all works out. I'll be watching patiently. :)

sorry to hear that Roger. and like everyone else i'll be watching till it's finished.

Roger, I can't even imagine this competition without you. I mean you and crazydave are like the unofficial welcome wagon. Us rookies get lots of support from you two. I'm sure all will work out fine. My thoughts are with you.

Uncle Sam is ALWAYS a rat b@stard this time of year. Unlike your build, I am NOT a fan
of tax time.
This is the first year ever that we've not gotten a refund. It was pretty disheartening.

I'm sorry to hear about the setback Roger. I've been really enjoying your boundless creativity. Hopefully things will get better for you all.

Come to think about it if it's about tax why don't you just throw some tea into a body of water and secede from the union?:mrgreen: It worked for you guys last time around by all accounts:mrgreen:
Thank you, South. I appreciate the support.

:lol: I'll have to see if I can round up some buddies :lol:

I'm following this one to the end no matter how long it takes Rog - I am having so much fun taking in everyone's ideas and this one is a cracker! :wink:
Thanks, Paul

Thats a bummer Roger this is such a cool build when ever you can take another step on it i'll certainly be watching. Hope everything works out for ya.
Thanks, Steve. Things will work out. It just may take me longer than I'd hoped. I WILL get this one done.

me too. all the best and I hope it all works out. I'll be watching patiently. :)
THanks, man.

sorry to hear that Roger. and like everyone else i'll be watching till it's finished.
I appreciate it, tele. I've had so much support during this build that there's no way I can let it go undone.

Roger, I can't even imagine this competition without you. I mean you and crazydave are like the unofficial welcome wagon. Us rookies get lots of support from you two. I'm sure all will work out fine. My thoughts are with you.
Thanks, nosmo. You know, one of the things I wanted to do during the challenge was to connect with as many people as I could. This is an incredible forum full of such good people, and I wanted to make sure I was an active, contributing part of that. I'm definitely going to be sticking around, and as I said, I'll work on what I can. I'm not out of it yet...

"not out of it yet" - GOOD!

Hey Roger , glad to hear or read you'll be sticking around , and really glad you are not out ! Better days are a coming . :smile:

This is an ambitious goal here. You know that. I think it is doable and the result be light and strong too. The mold could be pressurized, heated or cooled, shaken, even spun maybe. When we build Adobe molds ones with pressure applied result in much stronger product.

The concrete mix will also be a big factor. Ultra lite concrete can be made with air whipping also, like whipped cream. Counter tops are sometimes done that way because otherwise the cabinets gotta' be REAL H.D. The idea of a two piece mold front and rear sandwiched together with epoxy made for concrete binding would allow you to insert electronics/routing pipe etc. and also give a front and rear smooth finish. I'd be real general on my defiinition of "concrete", plastics often substiute well for rock.

Meanwhile, crazy thinkin' Cow pies mixed with adobe and wood fired to final form results in a beautiful red marbled tile and it is a little less dense. You still got cow pies in OK I think?

Carry on, we is watchin' you:mrgreen:

slip cast that thing and make it hollow

This is an ambitious goal here. You know that. I think it is doable and the result be light and strong too. The mold could be pressurized, heated or cooled, shaken, even spun maybe. When we build Adobe molds ones with pressure applied result in much stronger product.

The concrete mix will also be a big factor. Ultra lite concrete can be made with air whipping also, like whipped cream. Counter tops are sometimes done that way because otherwise the cabinets gotta' be REAL H.D. The idea of a two piece mold front and rear sandwiched together with epoxy made for concrete binding would allow you to insert electronics/routing pipe etc. and also give a front and rear smooth finish. I'd be real general on my defiinition of "concrete", plastics often substiute well for rock.

Meanwhile, crazy thinkin' Cow pies mixed with adobe and wood fired to final form results in a beautiful red marbled tile and it is a little less dense. You still got cow pies in OK I think?

Carry on, we is watchin' you:mrgreen:
Ok, you're waaaay too qualified to quote on my thread :lol: You actually know what you're talking about whereas I'm just kinda winging it :lol:

slip cast that thing and make it hollow

Ummm, I have no idea how to do that :lol:

Good luck finishing it. I check in on these builds every few days and this is always one of my favorites. Would hate to see you drop out of the contest!

Thanks, tangelo. I'll just keep plugging away at it as funds permit. If I finish on time, then great. If not, it'll still be just as cool whenever it's done. I didn't really have any aspirations of winning this thing. The amount of talent on this forum is absolutely incredible. I just wanted to be part of the madness :mrgreen:

Hey Roger , glad to hear or read you'll be sticking around , and really glad you are not out ! Better days are a coming . :smile:
Yep - on a year where it hits me - it takes me a few weeks to get over that tax shock.

I agree "Better days are a coming . :smile:"

This build is going to ROCK!

Thanks, mojo.:wink:

Scatter is right I think... basically you might want a shell made from concrete like material however it might be only 1/2" thick or less for ex. This leaves the interior hollow. You might take a looksee at how ceramics people build molds and pour their product.

Qualified, oh yea... the only thing I ever poured was driveways and sidewalks at the house.

Don't quit try some things... it can be done.

why don't you just throw some tea into a body of water and secede from the union?:mrgreen: It worked for you guys last time around by all accounts:mrgreen:

Actually, seceding from the union didn't work out too well for the states that tried it. That was many years after throwing the tea into the harbor.

Scatter is right I think... basically you might want a shell made from concrete like material however it might be only 1/2" thick or less for ex. This leaves the interior hollow. You might take a looksee at how ceramics people build molds and pour their product.

I took several ceramics courses in college and what you are describing here is the process of slip casting. A two or more piece plaster mold is created from a positive template. when the plaster is hardened it is opened and the positive template is removed. Liquid clay (slip) is poured into the mold. The natural properties of plaster pulls moister from other materials (the slip) and a hardened shell forms against the plaster. when the mold is turned upside down and the extra liquid is poured out. you are left with a relatively thin walled hollow piece.
The process of pulling the moister from the slip can be speeded up by using less water in your slip and adding Sodium Silicate (a few drops). This loosens up the slip without having to add water. One problem with using this slip casting method in ceramics is that the designs need to shrink within the mold thus things like lower telecaster bout will crack during this drying process.

Try looking up Smooth-On. They have a light-weight,high-strength polymer gypsum hybrid (it is a funky plasticized plastery kind of thing) called duo matrix. It may be helpful --it may not be. But most importantly while you are on the site, they have tons of videos that may help in your mold making process.

This whole concrete guitar is an awesome idea if it works, and once you have it figured out and working you could mass produce those things if your mold is durable.

If you start selling them, you may get another surprise next tax season.

Hang in there, man!
Hopefully you'll make the deadline, but it's kind of liberating if you don't.
I couldn't make it last year, and it was kind of a relief. Plus my thread didn't get locked, so that was kind of cool.
We still have some time though!

I took several ceramics courses in college and what you are describing here is the process of slip casting. A two or more piece plaster mold is created from a positive template. when the plaster is hardened it is opened and the positive template is removed. Liquid clay (slip) is poured into the mold. The natural properties of plaster pulls moister from other materials (the slip) and a hardened shell forms against the plaster. when the mold is turned upside down and the extra liquid is poured out. you are left with a relatively thin walled hollow piece.
The process of pulling the moister from the slip can be speeded up by using less water in your slip and adding Sodium Silicate (a few drops). This loosens up the slip without having to add water. One problem with using this slip casting method in ceramics is that the designs need to shrink within the mold thus things like lower telecaster bout will crack during this drying process.
Thanks for the education. Given your skill level on your builds, I'm not surprised you had this talent tucked away too :grin:

Try looking up Smooth-On. They have a light-weight,high-strength polymer gypsum hybrid (it is a funky plasticized plastery kind of thing) called duo matrix. It may be helpful --it may not be. But most importantly while you are on the site, they have tons of videos that may help in your mold making process.

This whole concrete guitar is an awesome idea if it works, and once you have it figured out and working you could mass produce those things if your mold is durable.

If you start selling them, you may get another surprise next tax season.
Thanks for the info, slim. And if I start selling anything, I'll have the tax implications accounted for before hand :lol:

Hang in there, man!
Hopefully you'll make the deadline, but it's kind of liberating if you don't.
I couldn't make it last year, and it was kind of a relief. Plus my thread didn't get locked, so that was kind of cool.
We still have some time though!
Thanks man. Yeah, I'm not giving up hope at all. I've got some stuff up for sale (including a really nice guitar :wink:), so hopefully I'll be able to generate some cash in the next couple of weeks.

I don't even want to get started. . .besides, I think there's something about no politics here on the ole forum.

Suffice it to say IMHO, Rat Bastard is not just for Tax Time anymore.

Hang in there Roger. You've got a lot of friends pulling for you here.

Hang in there Roger. You've got a lot of friends pulling for you here.

Absolutely!

I hope you can stick around Roger. This is a great idea, I'd love to see it come to fruition before or after the 14th.

You could consider suspending a couple of polystyrene blocks shaped like cavities as you pour. They could stay in there, as they represent no real weight. This would allow you to effectively chamber as you pour.

Just a thought?

I don't even want to get started. . .besides, I think there's something about no politics here on the ole forum.

Suffice it to say IMHO, Rat Bastard is not just for Tax Time anymore.

Hang in there Roger. You've got a lot of friends pulling for you here.
Absolutely!

Thank you very much, guys!

I hope you can stick around Roger. This is a great idea, I'd love to see it come to fruition before or after the 14th.

You could consider suspending a couple of polystyrene blocks shaped like cavities as you pour. They could stay in there, as they represent no real weight. This would allow you to effectively chamber as you pour.

Just a thought?

Yeah, I've been toying with that idea, kwerk. I won't get any time to mess with it until Friday evening, but I may just see what i can come up with. In all honesty I'm just trying to figure out if it's worth it. I'm sure it probably is because it wouldn't take much to knock off a pound or so...

How are you going to reinforce the concrete?
You will need something to stabilize the concrete, esp. if you make it thin walled

I hadn't planned on using anything to stabilize it. It's going to be a solid pour pretty much. Do you have something in mind?

How about "chopped fibre" fibreglass strands they use to reinforce pond and pool sides?

Buddy of mine uses them to reinforce levelling compound on wooden floors prior to tiling, he swears by them.

Should work great.

WOOT! Good news. I was able to sell a guitar, so I have funds to puchase hardware! I should be ordering the goods later this week...

Dunno, not really my cup of tea.
I helped the wife make some bird baths from rhubarb leafs and they cracked very easily unless we reinforced them with a piece of chicken wire.
Just a single ply of chicken wire did all the difference, but I bet that some concretologist will step in shortly with the exact specification for tone optimized vintage correct reinforcement material.

Rock on then. I have thought that a cheap way to get hardware would be to buy a $40 guitar, say a beat squier, and demo it. The pickups and bridge would probably not be the style you'd want, but for a test guitar, screws, truss rod, nut buttons, pots, knobs, tuners, pickguard material, then feebay the carcass for $20.
Of course, not for a high end work of art, but I am not up to that level, yet

Just a single ply of chicken wire did all the difference, but I bet that some concretologist will step in shortly with the exact specification for tone optimized vintage correct reinforcement material.

I have designed, repaired, replaced and placed tens of millions of dollars of concrete work. Built a concrete canoe, never a guitar. Been hesitate to wade in though, chicken wire and a little sand might be a good idea.

Dunno, not really my cup of tea.
I helped the wife make some bird baths from rhubarb leafs and they cracked very easily unless we reinforced them with a piece of chicken wire.
Just a single ply of chicken wire did all the difference, but I bet that some concretologist will step in shortly with the exact specification for tone optimized vintage correct reinforcement material.

I actually did some checking on Warnz advice and did some research on chopped fiber glass. I found that I can get a can for about $15. It's used often for reinforcing concrete and shouldn't really add any weight so...
The only thing I'd be worried about is the fuzzy look. I guess I'll just have to hit it with some hair clippers or something :lol:

Well.....if I had known you were selling a guitar...no, no, no I have too many, and I'm building another, and I'll build more, and...how much? Got any more? NO, NO, NO......

Nosmo, you don't need to be buying anything but more wood and parts! Why buy something
someone else messed up, when you can just build fine guitars like the one you've got going?

Yep, Eric's right. You're much better off :lol:

By the way, I just posted a jointer for sale in the classifieds if anyone is in need.

Linky (http://www.tdpri.com/phpclassifieds/showproduct.php?product=29413)

To bad there's not a boatbuilder near you that would let you use his chopper gun. It's like a paint gun but shoots chopped e-glass. It normally shoots polyester resin with it but you could shut off the hose. With one of these you could do fractional pours, 1/4" shoot, 1/4" shoot, you get the idea :smile:. A lot stronger, and a lot lighter :wink:. As for the fuzzies? Shoot it with epoxy paint after sanding (you can get it in spray cans). It would be hardened and hidden all at the same time :smile:

Dave

Good info, Dave. Thank you! I'm wanting to stick with an industrial look, though, so I want the cement to stay visible...

Since concrete is strong in compression but not tension, meaning you can pull it apart easily, it likely will need something to hold it together. Fiberglass fibers will give you a little fuzz, it will look fine, but a few might cut your hand if sticking up. Wire would work, cut fishing line, there are metal fibers, heck paperclips would do. If weight us really a concern a foam center. Sand and rock in the mix act as filler and give the cement something to grab on to. Various sizes of sand and rock lock it together, think of a jar of same size marbles versus a jar of small and large angular shapes. Plus they are cheaper than cement. Cement and sand without rock is mortar and generally 1 part cement and 4 parts sand, add water. Less water makes a stronger mix, but too little will not give all the cement the chance to hydrate and be weak. Sorry, I could go on all day but I will shut up now.
I really do love the smell of concrete in the morning. This is a cool build.

I'm wanting to stick with an industrial look, though, so I want the cement to stay visible...
Nobody said you couldn't "relic" it :lol:

Thanks for all the info, Joe. I really do appreciate an expert opinion. Do you think the perlite will be enough to add as the aggregate or should I add sand to my cement mix before adding to my perlite. In other words, I would end of with a ratio of something like 2:.5:1 (perlite:sand:cement). Twice as much perlite as cement, and twice as much cement as sand...

WOOT! Good news. I was able to sell a guitar, so I have funds to puchase hardware! I should be ordering the goods later this week...

Great news man! That sale cemented your projects fate. Glad your back in the mix. (boooo! bad puns :lol:)

Thanks for all the info, Joe. I really do appreciate an expert opinion. Do you think the perlite will be enough to add as the aggregate or should I add sand to my cement mix before adding to my perlite. In other words, I would end of with a ratio of something like 2:.5:1 (perlite:sand:cement). Twice as much perlite as cement, and twice as much cement as sand...

I think that you could use a lot more sand. The cement is powder and the perlite (great idea by the way) is foam, sand will give it body. Cement:sand:perlite. As a guess, maybe 1:2:2. I would get fine chicken wire, cut out two layers in shape of a tele but an inch bigger. Put in half inch of concrete, place the wire on top and bend the sides up, maybe half inch or 3/4 in from the sides. Add inch of concrete, place second mesh and bend sides down into concrete. Fill it up. It will tend to crack at corners of the blockouts like the control cavity. Straightened out paper clips and put them around the corners.
Let it sit 48 or 72 hours. Keep the top moist, maybe soak an old tee shirt and then a light spray of water as needed. This will reduce drying cracks. Don't use one of those red rags, the color will bleed into the concrete.
You could start with a bag of Masons Mix from Quikrete, type s if you can find it, Mortar Mix type N if not. Type S is in 60 and 80 pound bags, about $5.50 a
bag. At my age I like the 60's more than 80's. Then about half and half mix.
And do not breathe cement dust, potentially very bad for humans.
The idea is so cool I was going to try it myself, without telling you guys, didn't want to step on your thread, but now I opened my big mouth (or fat fingers since I am typing)
It may sound like a lot of wire but we have a saying, build it strong so it won't fall down and no one gets sued.

Thanks a ton, Joe! I've got a 94 lb bag of portland cement and my perlite right now. I'll pick up some sand and chicken wire this weekend. this will be slightly more work, but should definitely give me something a lot stronger. I was also going to use an idea that someone else suggested above by cutting out foam blocks to bury in the cement That should relieve some more weight. Good idea?

The only concern I'd have with inserting foam "lighteners" would be the thickness of the
concrete on both sides. Is that blue stuff strong enough to support a thin layer on top
of it? If so, however, then that makes all the sense in the world. But what
the heck do I know about it. I just want to see and hear this concrete Tele, man!

Yeah. The extruded foam is very stout. I was thinking about making them about 12" thick, so there would be 1/2" of cement surrounding it. With the sand added to the mix, I'm worried about the weight creeping back up again, but from what Joe says, it should be plenty strong.

Sand is only slightly heavier than cement, 100 pounds per cubic foot vs 94 pounds for cement (the weight of your bag, no coincidence).

How wet would you make the mix, Joe? I've heard the it gets weaker the wetter the mix, but I want to be able to get it worked into all the spots well. My thinking was to go about the same viscosity as pancake batter

Mix the fibres in the water before adding to the mix, you should not have any sticking out at you if you are casting on a flat surface and finishing the top with a trowel or something.
Don't worry if you do get a few stray fibres sticking up, just hit them with a blowtorch (well not physically :smile:)

Too much water will cause the concrete to flake off. When you add water the mix should NOT be shiny, which is too much water.
The water is to start the
cement to hydrate (cure). Take the weight if cement and add half that weight in water. We get into the volume/ weight thing and the metric system.
So half the weight of cement. Pancake batter is too soupy. Mashed potatoes is more like it.
Weight actually is not a big concern overall.
A tele is 163 square inches times 1.5 inches deep is 245 cubic inches divide by 1728 cubic inches per cubic foot and the tele is 0.142 cubic feet of volume.
At a 1:1 ratio (cement and sand to perlite) the mix should be about 50 pounds per cubic feet.
50 times 0.142 is 7.1 pounds. Which is exactly what someone said very early in the thread.

As to foam in the middle, every half inch thickness is 7.1/3=2.4 pounds.
Since concrete relies on its interlocking of ingredients for strength I do not think a half inch slab of foam in the middle to save 2 pounds is worth it. The hollow concrete shell would be very likely to crack. I think 1.5 inches solid is a better idea.

On a side note, foam under a concrete floor is great for insulation. Foam of this type can support 2,000 pounds per square foot, uniform load.

Dude, you are a WEALTH of information :mrgreen:. I was happy just winging it until I found out how poorly I was going about things :lol:. Seriously, Joe, thanks for your expertise in this matter. I feel pretty confident in turning out a good final product now.

Consider extra metal to hold the horn on. Maybe some big nails? 16 penny, 3 inch framing nails. The horn looks like it would like to crack off.
Fibers will help on surface cracking for sure, but will not be structural.

Dude, you are a WEALTH of information :mrgreen:. I was happy just winging it until I found out how poorly I was going about things :lol:. Seriously, Joe, thanks for your expertise in this matter. I feel pretty confident in turning out a good final product now.

Thank you. Unfortunately I have to make a living as an engineer since my guitar playing stinks.

Well, I've got someone interested in buying my jointer, so I may have quite a bit more money on Monday. Just in case, I've got my parts lists ready for GFS, Bezdez, and StewMac. *crosses fingers*

I'm going to try and get my fretboard knocked out this weekend, so I should have some progress by Saturday evening *again crosses fingers*

I've got a question. I would've posted this in the general Home Depot forum, but most of us are in here now, so I thought I'd get a better answer here :wink:

Can a shaper be used in lieu of a router table? I've got one that was my dad's but I didn't know if I could buy bits and use it for flush trimming, etc.

I've got a question. I would've posted this in the general Home Depot forum, but most of us are in here now, so I thought I'd get a better answer here :wink:

Can a shaper be used in lieu of a router table? I've got one that was my dad's but I didn't know if I could buy bits and use it for flush trimming, etc.

Yes. Grizzly has a pretty good selection of shaper bits, as do others. You may have to match a straight cutter with a rub ring or bushing/bearing to make up a template pattern following (flush cutting) assembly--as you probably know from looking at your Dad's shaper, unlike router bits which come as a cutting section and bearing on a shaft, shaper cutters come with a center bore that you match to your shaper's spindle, along with spacers, other cutters, bearings, bushings, and so forth, all screwed down with a nut on the top of the spindle. Cabinet shops and industrial woodworkers like shapers because of this versatility--you can assemble a wide variety of profiles from stock cutter shapes--, and because of the power which lets them cut fast and clean.

[EDIT] Be sure to measure your Dad's shaper spindle diameter and height, you'll need to know those dimensions to order the proper cutters, spacers, bushings, etc.

Essentially, a shaper is nothing more than a router table on steroids. Do be careful, tho--because of the much more powerful motors that shapers have, they can really grab and pull, or sling stuff more powerfully than most routers.

I believe you can use a shaper as a router table. Actually, it would probably work better. More horse power, very stable. The last shaper I owned had a 1/2" collet (if I recall correctly), so using 1/2" shaft bits are a natural.

Thanks for the info. I was hoping this was the case. Right now it's at a friend's house, so I've not looked at it closely, and based on what you guys are saying, I guess there are different types. I'll take a look tomorrow to see what type of bits I need.

Thanks guys

As someone who is a proud Oklahoma native..... I gotta say... I love it!

Definitely a cool build!

I think even a shaper might have a hard time shaping concrete, but I'm not sure:wink:

As someone who is a proud Oklahoma native..... I gotta say... I love it!

Definitely a cool build!
Thanks!

I think even a shaper might have a hard time shaping concrete, but I'm not sure:wink:
Just gotta have the right bits :lol:

Shapers don't have the same RPM's as a router's 20,000 vs about 10,000 or so on a shaper. You don't want shaper cutters moving that fast because of the large diameters. I had a grizzly shaper that I tried to flush trim with and it had marginal results. YMMV. If I was going to redo anything, I'd go with a router table with removable base, and spiral bit for flush trimming. That would be more useful in the guitar building world, at least from what I've done.

A lot of it is what you're comfortable with, from what I understand. I have a friend that's
a cabinet guy that scoffs at me when I talk about my router table. He calls it a "toy", lol.
Of course, he learned on the shaper, so to him, it's natural. The description a "router on
steriods", to me, is pretty much dead on. The main thing is "you've got one, so use it".
The use what you have theory always trumps any discussion.

Don't buy too many bits until you make sure you're comfortable with it. Then, if you are,
you're set and can get whatever shape you want out of it.

Soooo........when are we going to back the truck up and start pouring some concrete? I mean, not to pressure you or anything, but your killin' me here! Hey, you could start small - just pour the pick or something. :grin:

Soooo........when are we going to back the truck up and start pouring some concrete? I mean, not to pressure you or anything, but your killin' me here! Hey, you could start small - just pour the pick or something. :grin:

Maybe he's saving up for the concrete pumper truck, looks like you can't get the truck very close to the work area :lol:

Seriously though I'm ready for concrete.

LOL. I need to get my other hardware in first so that I can make the forms for those. I'll order some of the parts from bezdez today, but I won't order the bridge or pickup until I see if I sell my jointer on Monday. If I do, then I'll go ahead and order everything else from GFS and Stewmac at the same time. It'll be a couple of weeks before I begin to pour.

It's like waiting for a contractor isn't it?

How much longer?
2 weeks.

A month later - How much longer?
2 weeks

^ :lol:

Oh yeah? Well it's not me, I'm waiting on the drywall guy. He's had some family problems so he's a little behind :lol:

Oh, and I just ordered some parts from bezdez and Stewmac. Got my truss rod, knobs, neck plate/screws, jack plate and fret wire on the way! WOOT!

I hate to see you sell a tool to fund it, but I can't wait to see this pour. And as a special bonus, I bet thompsons sealer dries a lot faster than nitro too!

a MUCH better router table is up next for me... but as mentioned... I doubt it'd work on concrete!! :razz:

Alright, with me working some overtime at work now, my guitar build time has decreased substantially. I was able to make some progress today though.

First thing I needed to do was cut out another fretboard blank. The other one I had picked out wasn't going to work, so here's my proof of life shot for the raw material
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2044.jpg

Since I don't have a table saw, I set up a fence so I could use my circular saw
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2045.jpg

http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2046.jpg

Once I had it cut out, I needed to get it consistent across all the dimensions. First up was making sure the edges were parallel. First, it was Stanley 5 1/2's turn.
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2050.jpg

Then it had a date with the plate glass/sandpaper rig
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2049.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2048.jpg

Once the sides were parallel, it then had to be worked down to uniform thickness. I paired my Stanley with my BOSS to get this
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2051.jpg

When all that was done, it was time to put the radius on it. First, though, here's a little quiz. It's multiple choice, though, so don't stress out:

What word accurately describes my dislike for radiusing a fret board?
A: detest
B: Abhor
C: extreme loathing

So here's my radius jig. I taped the fretboard to my fret template and then clamp my level to use as a fence for my radius block.
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2052.jpg

I'm starting with 40 grit, which is pretty much like grabbing a rock and rubbing it up and down the fretboard. I'll move to successively finer grits to get it looking good.

So that's it for tonight. I'm hoping to finish the radius tomorrow and get the fret slots cut. Oh, and the quiz was actually a trick question. There aren't words strong enough to express my dislike for radius sanding :mad:

Oh, and here's the extra bit. It seems to be the "in" thing now to post shop pics. With me always being afraid of being an outsider, I figure I'll do like the cool kids and show off how I roll. Yeah, I know you're jealous :cool:
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2047.jpg

Nice fretboard Roger! I am jealous of your workshop I would give my adenoids for a space like that. :grin:

-Deleted suggestion for not fully understanding ultimate goal. Keep up the great Work Roger!

That sure is one pretty fretboard :grin:

Very cool,

My grandfather was a mason in CT all his life. Specialized in fieldstone and drywall. This build is going to be excellent!

Barncaster

Thanks for the input, Steve. I'm a bit too far into it to change my process at this point, so I'm going to forge ahead and see what happens. With the methodology you describe, I would only have a mortar-coated guitar, not a true concrete guitar, which is what I'm shooting for.

That sure is one pretty fretboard :grin:
Thanks man. I really like walnut- probably my favorite wood.

Very cool,

My grandfather was a mason in CT all his life. Specialized in fieldstone and drywall. This build is going to be excellent!

Barncaster
Thanks. I'm interested to see how it turns out. Lots of unknowns...

Thanks for the input, Steve. I'm a bit too far into it to change my process at this point, so I'm going to forge ahead and see what happens. With the methodology you describe, I would only have a mortar-coated guitar, not a true concrete guitar, which is what I'm shooting for.

np Roger, I removed my last post realizing it wasn't relevant to what your going for. Keep up the great work man!

See, I told you an expert would step in!

I'm really looking forward to seeing this thing poured, remember to make the cement green enough

Nice fretboard work, Roger. And I can plainly see that the wife makes you do laundry
during your "build downtime", admit it.

Oooooooo.....fieldstone fret markers. And drywall laminated headstock :shock:


Sorry - lost my mind for a second there.

np Roger, I removed my last post realizing it wasn't relevant to what your going for. Keep up the great work man!
No worries, Steve. I really did appreciate the perspective and advice.

See, I told you an expert would step in!

I'm really looking forward to seeing this thing poured, remember to make the cement green enough
That's one of the great things about a forum like this-- we all have a similar interest in guitars, but we all come from varied backgrounds and experiences. Lots of great info from knowledgeable people to be found here on a lot of different topics.

Nice fretboard work, Roger. And I can plainly see that the wife makes you do laundry
during your "build downtime", admit it.
:grin: She actually complains because the garage turns into that mess during the weekends, so she gets covered in dust whenever she goes out there. Believe it or not, we're able to fit the wife's car in there during the week...

Oh, you were asking me about laundry weren't you? With this being election season, I only thought it appropriate to dodge the question :lol:

Oooooooo.....fieldstone fret markers. And drywall laminated headstock :shock:


Sorry - lost my mind for a second there.

Drywall you say? With this being a construction-themed guitar, hmmm :twisted:

Apparently you've lost your mind too!

Perhaps slightly :mrgreen:

I just got back from selling my jointer, so I'm now officially fully funded :grin:. I'm placing my order from GFS today...

Good fer you!

Since I can't do anything to the form until my other parts get here (a week or so probably), I figured I'd finish up with my fret board. When we left off, I was in the middle of cursing the radius process.

After going through more grits up to 320, I finally ended up with this
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2054.jpg

Next thing I need to do was cut the slots. I mounted my jig onto my RAS fence thusly
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2056.jpg

And finished it up to look like this
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2058.jpg

Now I needed to think about fret markers. It's not dry wall, but I think they hang out together :grin:
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2059.jpg

Knock 'em down to a manageable fret marker size. For those of you who remember my mili-tele build, I think I'll make this shot a tradition in all my build threads :smile:
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2061.jpg

http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2064.jpg
http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/RogerC108/DSCN2065.jpg

I'll counter sink them slightly and then fill with CA. That should sand/buff down level with the board, leaving me a nice smooth marker.

That's it until I get everything else in. I show that a couple of the orders have shipped already, so I'm hoping to start getting stuff in next week :mrgreen:

Looking good Roger, love the screw markers.

Thanks, gear. That was something I thought about a while back. At first I was going to do zinc screws, but they were too harsh against the walnut. These standard drywall screws have a color that really compliments the colors in the fret board.

Sheetrock screw markers.....now there's something different! I like it :grin:

Now where did I put that notebook full of ideas I'm gonna steal?

No doubt about this being an INDUSTRIAL build. Are ya gonna polish those screw heads before you drive them home? No need for glue, I guess, huh? I think they'll look really cool swimming under a couple layers of CA.

And Roger, I've got to add my impatient chant to the growing background of upset and figety peasants outside the castle walls, " POUR-POUR-POUR-POUR".

Glad you got some funding, and parts on the way. Can't wait to see it.

Thanks, gear. That was something I thought about a while back. At first I was going to do zinc screws, but they were too harsh against the walnut. These standard drywall screws have a color that really compliments the colors in the fret board.

Ahh, but the zinc screws have better tone! I thought everybody knew that...

Only on TDPRI do guitarbuilders worry about the color merits of drywall screws. I seriously doubt the FCS guys hang out after work and talk about these things.

Man your fretboard is really screwed now (I'm so happy I got to type that before anybody
else did).

Nifty, neat, creative, unique......(etc. etc. etc.)

I like the fret markers Roger , COOL !