Martin 000-28 with natural blemishes in the wood grain on the top.

I am getting closer to making a decision on a guitar purchase, hopefully on Thursday next week. I have now made four trips to two different stores this week, weighing my options with Martin's 000-28, 000-28EC, OM 28V, OM 21, M36 and a Larrivee OM 09. While they are all very nice, I kept going back to the same 000-28 at one store. I went back in there today give it one more assessment and to compare it to an OM 28V. I thought 000-28 won hands down tone wise, and I also thought it played better.

However, today, for the first time, I noticed that there are four naturally occuring blemishes on the top. They look like the sort of blemishes that you would expect to see when cutting wood close to a branch or where a knot would be. They are not knots, but they are definately aberations in the grain, three of them in the area around the bridge, all about the size of a silver dollar or a Lonnie, and there is a larger one on the left side of the top next to the neck.

When the guitar is placed at different angles, they take on an almost three dimensional quality, with the grain not running top to bottom, almost side to side as well. Someone referred to this as "bear claw", and showed me a picture of it, but these marks do not look like long "scratch" type marks going in different directions all over the surface of the top. They are localized and in four places. None of the other guitars that I looked at had this, and in fact even guitars that were much cheaper didn't have these marks.

Aesthetically, I'm not sure how they stand up. Tone wise the guitar is a knock out. Anyone have a guitar with markings as I described, or anyone turn down a guitar because of similar aberations?? Should this be a decidng factor on a $2275 guitar?? Should a $2275 Martin have this on the top?

You know, without pictures, it never happened. Not in this forum, no siree!

Reminds me of the time when I saw a few strange looking 'cracks' on a Taylor 812 hanging on the walls in my local Guitar Center. They weren't cracks at all, just grain and knots in the wood, combined with the finish and varnish. I said to the sales clerk it looked almost pretty.

Reminds me of the time when I saw a few strange looking 'cracks' on a Taylor 812 hanging on the walls in my local Guitar Center. They weren't cracks at all, just grain and knots in the wood, combined with the finish and varnish. I said to the sales clerk it looked almost pretty.

Was that a $2275 guitar?

Was that a $2275 guitar?

They call that character. If you like it and it sounds and feels good to you....Buy it.

RonS

I t wouldn't be to me. ymmv

I t wouldn't be to me. ymmv

For those who have laid down the $$, that is what I hear.

Was that a $2275 guitar?

Retail on an 812ce is about $4000; street is about $3000.

If it bothers you now, I have to wonder if you'd ever be able to see past it.

The days when manufacturers (i.e., those of any size) could discard wood because it wasn't "perfect" *looking* are long gone. Back when I was building guitars, I picked up some wood off their "2nds" pile at the Martin factory (late 1970s) and built a couple wonderful guitars with wood that a builder today would give up a valuable body part for. If I'd been a smart person, or at least entrepreneurial (probably why I'm no longer in that business, but I digress) I would have bought everything I could fit in my car, instead of just what I thought I might need...

The Eastman mando I just got has a similar marking on the one side of the top. It's something they may not even realized was there until they carved down to it, but it obviously didn't bother the builder at Eastman enough to change from a natural finish to a classic or sunburst, that would have masked it completely. It's *wood*, not carbon fiber or machined aluminum. It's mine, and I like it :).

But, if it bothers you, find one that looks the way you want it to. It's your money!

Some feel that Bearclaw figuring makes for a better sounding top and that type of figuring is typically an upcharge .
Whether or not to purchase is totally a personal issue .
Martin does offer a lifetime warranty and could bring a bit of peace of mind to you .
With all of the other stuff aside , the 000 body size is arguably the most refined and balanced sounding Martin product available .

Please remember "Bear Claw" has absolutely nothing to do with Bears scratching on trees. It is a grain aberration that manifests itself in a number of ways and what you are describing sounds right to me. The "scars" on the top of my number 1 Brian Morris acoustic are also localised and random as you describe.

If it sounds way, way, better than most grab it and know that you have got something special despite the blemishes.

If it simply an average to good sounding Martin then I think you should find one that suits you visually as well as aurally.

I don't think the presence or absence of those marks should be the primary test but if it annoys you then you probably won't really enjoy the instrument.

Please remember "Bear Claw" has absolutely nothing to do with Bears scratching on trees. It is a grain aberration that manifests itself in a number of ways and what you are describing sounds right to me. The "scars" on the top of my number 1 Brian Morris acoustic are also localised and random as you describe.

If it sounds way, way, better than most grab it and know that you have got something special despite the blemishes.

If it simply an average to good sounding Martin then I think you should find one that suits you visually as well as aurally.

I don't think the presence or absence of those marks should be the primary test but if it annoys you then you probably won't really enjoy the instrument.

What Chez said is pretty much on the money. I'll add that I've grown to love the "bear claw" in the top of my acoustic...it makes it unique!

What Chez said is pretty much on the money. I'll add that I've grown to love the "bear claw" in the top of my acoustic...it makes it unique!

Would you be able to take a photo of that "blemish" on your guitar and post it for me/us? The store that has the guitar ius closed today, so I can't upload any photos. I might be able to tomorrow.

This is directly above the soundhole on a 2011 D-18. Its not so obvious in the photos, no matter how I angled the camera etc i still could not make it more visible - but you can see what Im talking about. It looks about 10 x more noticeable to the eye, and as you mentioned, almost like a knot in the wood, and it really needs to be viewed 3 dimensionally to appreciate what it looks like.....Im pretty sure this is what youre talking about anyhow.

http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/topic/66792#.T1zMK673Ijw

found this link where its discussed too.

"Bearclaw" often refers to highly figured spruce, almost a birdseye maple kind of effect.

Here's a finished top ("courtesy" of Luthier's Mercantile): http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/DisplayLargePhoto.asp?largephoto=TOPBearclawSitkaJ udyThreetZOOM.jpg

One or 2 markings are just "defects" if your aesthetic expects nice, straight, parallel lines. Again, just something that likely would have ended up in a sailboat mast 50 years ago. Century(ies) old spruce trees aren't as common as they once were.

Mark on my mandolin top attached. Note, this is a square area about 1.5"x1.5".

You bragging or complaining? Most people think bearclaw marks are cool, and many pay extra for tops that show a lot of them. You said the guitar sang to you. You get that and bearclaw? Lucky!

This is directly above the soundhole on a 2011 D-18. Its not so obvious in the photos, no matter how I angled the camera etc i still could not make it more visible - but you can see what Im talking about. It looks about 10 x more noticeable to the eye, and as you mentioned, almost like a knot in the wood, and it really needs to be viewed 3 dimensionally to appreciate what it looks like.....Im pretty sure this is what youre talking about anyhow.

http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/topic/66792#.T1zMK673Ijw

found this link where its discussed too.

That is exactly what it looks like! So what is that called?? Thanks, and yes, I too can see how it would be difficult to photograph it. None the less, well done.

So, now let me ask, would you be concerned if there were four of those marks - in different places - on the sound top of a $2275 Martin 000-28??

That's bearclaw.

So, now let me ask, would you be concerned if there were four of those marks - in different places - on the sound top of a $2275 Martin 000-28??

Not in the slightest. When I was at SCGC, a bearclawed top was recognized as desirable. The only relevant issue is if the guitar sounds right, and it sounds like that is the case.

That's bearclaw.



Not in the slightest. When I was at SCGC, a bearclawed top was recognized as desirable. The only relevant issue is if the guitar sounds right, and it sounds like that is the case.

Okay, I feel better!! Thanks. If all goes well I'll have a NGD on Thrsday!!

You are not going to regret it. A OOO that has "the sound" is the kind of guitar that you'll be willing to yank out of a burning building.

That is exactly what it looks like! So what is that called?? Thanks, and yes, I too can see how it would be difficult to photograph it. None the less, well done.

So, now let me ask, would you be concerned if there were four of those marks - in different places - on the sound top of a $2275 Martin 000-28??

Concerned? hell no! like I said - it makes the guitar unique, as in - totally one of a kind, never going to find another that looks even remotely like it. I'd be all over that 000 if it sounds good and had bearclaw. :cool:

Iv'e just recently received my new Eastman E20OM with an adirondack top with some bearclaw in it and I can honestly say it sounds outstanding. Now, I don't know if that is why but this baby is a keeper.

You are not going to regret it. A OOO that has "the sound" is the kind of guitar that you'll be willing to yank out of a burning building.
Just don't call it Lucille . That name and story are already taken .
A good 000 is very hard to beat .

That is exactly what it looks like! So what is that called?? Thanks, and yes, I too can see how it would be difficult to photograph it. None the less, well done.

So, now let me ask, would you be concerned if there were four of those marks - in different places - on the sound top of a $2275 Martin 000-28??

My OM-28V had bear claw and not in a symmetric way. It was also the best sounding OM-28V I've experienced and it didn't bother me.

The 000-28 probably plays well by comparison because of the shorter scale. I happen to love that size or model and have a Santa Cruz that would be an 14 fret 000 in Martin terms.

My experience was the guitar being made well is most important. If the cosmetics are a big concern jumping up to Martin Vintage or Marquis series or a maker like Bourgeois, Collings, Huss & Dalton or Santa Cruz will get you top level look, feel and tone but some Martins are as good.

Only you can decide which will make you happy.

Just my .02 but if you've tried a bunch of guitars and that's the one that speaks to you, I'd consider buying it and not be concerned about the cosmetics of the top. A couple of weeks ago I was in the Commack GC and they had a used Taylor with a cosmetic mark similar to the one you're discussing. The guitar was in mint condition--and played and sounded like a dream. If I had the spare cash, which I don't right now, I would have snapped it up. The superior feel and sound far outweighed the fact that the top had a (to me anyway) minor flaw.

Then again, I'm not you and if the mark is going to bother you, keep looking for "the one" even if it takes a while.

You bragging or complaining? Most people think bearclaw marks are cool, and many pay extra for tops that show a lot of them. You said the guitar sang to you. You get that and bearclaw? Lucky!

What he said! Lots of love for this on the UMGF!:grin:

A quote from renowned Acoustic Luthier Dana Bourgeois (http://www.pantheonguitars.com/tonewoods.htm).

"Before leaving the spruces, I should mention bearclaw figure, or hazelficte-a delightful pattern in the grain occasionally occurring in all species of spruce. Bearclaw, like the curl in curly maple, is a rippling of the longitudinal fibers, which divides the surface of the wood into shimmering patterns. Unlike the even waves that usually occur in maple, bearclaw usually appears on asymmetrical or randomly broken patterns. This phenomenon almost always occurs in older trees that have dense, stiff grain structure and high sound velocity. Thus bearclaw is usually a reliable indicator of the better examples of tonewoods within any given species of spruce."

Interesting article.