Drums

Hey guys, am getting back into recording. I am using GarageBand, but feel limited by the loops it provides. Especially drum sounds. It doesn't even have a nice steady kick drum as a framework for a song. Or I can't find one. Noticed two big names in terms of programs used to get good results with drum sounds. Those are EzDrummer and Isotope I drum. What is everyone's thoughts on this? Which program do you guys like best?

Am using a MacBook pro with GarageBand. Use a line 6 pod Ux2 as an interface. Don't have a midi keyboard yet but is on my buy list for the near future.

Thanks

I've had great luck with EZD but haven't tried any of the other ones. No keyboard required if you find a pattern that's close to what you want, then edit it in the piano roll to your liking. You can write from scratch on a keyboard, of course, but you wouldn't really need a full-blown MIDI keyboard — just a USB controller (i.e., doesn't have its own sounds, but the keyboard works off the sounds in your DAW). I'm on a tight budget and got an Akai LPK25 for $69 ... it has mini-keys, but that doesn't bother me because I can't really play keyboards anyhow. I just use it to trigger the software sounds, then edit my slop into something resembling music.

Should add that the music I play is mainly rock and roll with some acoustic slower tracks thrown in. I just need something that will give me the best possible results and that I have full control over in terms of sounds. I know that real drums are the absolute best thing to have, but with a budget and no access to them at this time, I need a program that can help me get my songs done and then can record them later on with real drums.

I've had great luck with EZD but haven't tried any of the other ones. No keyboard required if you find a pattern that's close to what you want, then edit it in the piano roll to your liking. You can write from scratch on a keyboard, of course, but you wouldn't really need a full-blown MIDI keyboard — just a USB controller (i.e., doesn't have its own sounds, but the keyboard works off the sounds in your DAW). I'm on a tight budget and got an Akai LPK25 for $69 ... it has mini-keys, but that doesn't bother me because I can't really play keyboards anyhow. I just use it to trigger the software sounds, then edit my slop into something resembling music.

Thanks Woodman, I just watched a bunch of the EZD tutorials on their site, looks like you have a lot of control to what you want the sound and feel of the drums to sound like for the particular track you are working on. This as you know is very important.

EZD comes with a stock Rock kit and hundreds of patterns and fills, sorted into categories so you can browse for what you want without a lot of confusion. Then you can move beats around and adjust their velocity (volume). There's an onboard mixer (one channel for each drum mike), and you get your choice of several drums for each one. The tempo of the patterns follows the tempo you set for the song. You can work pretty quickly once you get the hang of it, which takes a couple of hours.

Now can you edit the track via GarageBand as well? Or is it easier to just make all alterations in EZD and move it back to the song? Also, can EZD be used in stand alone mode as well? Or does it always have to be used with GarageBand? Because say I want to just experiment with some sounds in the drummer and change tempo there before ever starting a project in GB, can you use it by itself like that?

Also, you were saying the program comes with some loops already in it? Or do you have to create your own loops in GarageBand?

big fish! (http://www.bigfishaudio.com/) have the pros do it for you.. edit as needed.

Well, if you`re already feeling limited, you may well have outgrown garageband. Why not make your own drum samples? If it`s not your bag, get a drummer to sample from!

Now can you edit the track via GarageBand as well? Or is it easier to just make all alterations in EZD and move it back to the song? Also, can EZD be used in stand alone mode as well? Or does it always have to be used with GarageBand? Because say I want to just experiment with some sounds in the drummer and change tempo there before ever starting a project in GB, can you use it by itself like that?

EZD works like a plug-in — it opens in a window within your DAW. You just drag the pattern into your track like you would a GB loop. But it's MIDI, and you make alterations in your GB MIDI window (piano roll). To experiment, you'd set up a new GB empty file, create a drum track, drag in your pattern and work from there. You could loop it for eight bars, create variations, etc. ... here's a vid on using EZD in GB (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-KZs5R3DNU) (though the patterns the guy uses aren't exactly the ones I'd choose!):

I think I may be out growing garageband. Really do feel limited in what I can do for percussion and drums for my tracks. It doesn't seem real to me.

@getbent- for bighfish, do you send the project to them with what you want done and they complete the drums for you?

@monkeyking- I have tried to get a couple of my buddies to do the drum tracks/samples for me and it never has panned out, they always end up forgetting they were suppose to help me out. So, it seems like I am going to have to do this on my own til I can find a drummer who can help me out. Also, I don't have access to a drum kit, so I can't physically record the real drums. So, am stuck using some type of software to get what I am looking for. Do you have any suggestions on software that has quality drum loops? Also, what is your thought on EZDrummer or IDrum?

I thought about the jump to Logic, but I don't have the money right now and I don't know if it is completely worth it as I can compose my songs well in garageband, thats why it seems money spent on decent drum / percussion software is the best bet for me.

brucefan,
I've been doing all my loops in GB since I started using it (around 2005). If you can get the hang of the piano roll editing, it starts getting pretty easy... this is my approach, it may or may not work for you...

1) in GB, I create my drum "track" and create an empty bar. I'll set the looping function for ONLY that one bar...
2) If I know what kind of beat I'm after, I'll listen to a sample of it, and note where on the beat the snare (usually beats 2 and 4) and kick drum (start with beats 1 and 3) fall.
3) I'll let the loop repeat itself, while I'm playing guitar with it, stop the loop, make adjustments, then play again. I keep repeating this until I have the groove the way I like it.
4) Once I have the groove, I copy the bar, and paste it enough times to make enough bars for a verse of the song. At this point, I'll usually put a couple crash cymbals to act as a guide (so I know where I am!)
5) In later versions of GB, you can use the arrange track to setup how many verses, choruses, etc. I'll set this up for how many verses I need...
6) NOW I start to record the other stuff!!! :mrgreen:

Franc Robert

Another EZ drummer user here. I agree with all of the advice offered above. Sounds like it would suit your needs perfectly. Also if you do upgrade from Garage band to say Logic, EZdrummer goes with you.

I use Cubase LE driving an Alesis DM5, fantastic setup. Cubase is a little tricky to set up but is totally worth it, the drum editor is fantastic.

EDIT: missed the part about you being on a Mac. This may not work for you, I don't remember if Cubase works with Apples. I can still stand by the DM5, though. Best sounding drum box I've ever found and it is not expensive.

Backalley- Seems that this could be a very effective way to get all the parts I need recorded the way that I want, I have never used the piano roll before, so will be a slight learning curve for me. Would this enabe me to make a very simple drum beat if I needed? Say a kick to hold the tempo over lyrics?

petey- thanks for confirming EZDrummer will achieve all I am looking for.

I have all the parts in my mind, don't play drums so I don't know how to write out the notation to just give to a drummer and record for me, Although, I am only 22, I have a very old school approach to recording and music in general. Have to feel it out and see what works and what doesn't work and I know I am not alone in that.

Bruuuuuce (sorry, couldn't resist!!!)

You can make very simple drum beats using the piano roll... look at the pic I've attached, I did this in GB, using the standard rock drum kit. This will give you the classic boom*chick*boomboom*chick rock beat heard so many times... the high-hats are set to 8th notes, you can also set them to quarter notes (one hi-hat per beat). Put this up in GB, and you'll start to hear how this works... and not the least, don't be afraid to play around with it some. GB is GREAT for experimenting!!!

Franc Robert