Why is it called a 'double stop'?

Just curious

It's not silly, it's a diad.:mrgreen:


Seriously though, I'd like to know too...Organ terminology? Just like "Pulling out all the stops?"

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about it but there's no specific mention of where the term double stop came from. But there is a clue.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_stop

They say the double stop was "invented" (?!!)(that seems like a weird choice of word) in 1627 by an Italian guy. So maybe the term is translated from Italian. Nowadays we use the term "fret" to describe a string being pushed down against a fret (to 'fret' a string) but maybe they used the word "stop" to indicate the same thing. And when you think about it "stopping" the string is a very accurate description of what's happening. You are literally stopping the string from vibrating past the point where you have "stopped" it.

My 2 cents.

Fiddle players can only get 2 strings at the most at one time with the bow, that's how it's been described to me.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about it but there's no specific mention of where the term double stop came from. But there is a clue.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_stop

They say the double stop was "invented" (?!!)(that seems like a weird choice of word) in 1627 by an Italian guy. So maybe the term is translated from Italian. Nowadays we use the term "fret" to describe a string being pushed down against a fret (to 'fret' a string) but maybe they used the word "stop" to indicate the same thing. And when you think about it "stopping" the string is a very accurate description of what's happening. You are literally stopping the string from vibrating past the point where you have "stopped" it.

My 2 cents.

Makes sense with the consideration that two is all you can get while bowing a violin.

Another example of Wikipedia being full of crap.
Hey guys let's make an encyclopedia, but instead of using experts let's let any moron post that wants.
It's just playing 2 strings at the same time. They can be "power chords", 3rds, 6ths, octaves. Both strings may be fretted, open, or one opened and one fretted.
Cornell Dupree was a master and he called it two stopping.

Another example of Wikipedia being full of crap.
Hey guys let's make an encyclopedia, but instead of using experts let's let any moron posts that wants.
It's just playing 2 strings at the same time.

Not quite, t. They both have to be fretted. Open strings aren't considered part of a double stop. Wikipedia has it pretty right. Fretting = stopping, and two at a time is a double stop.

Yuck...more "guitar-centric" vocabulary...

I believe it came from violin and other stringed instruments of that variety before guitar, as previously mentioned. Also as said, fretting or stopping 2 strings is basically how it was explained to me, not sure if open strings "technically" fit into that, but if it sounds cool, more power to you.

Can you fret a string if your neck doesn't have frets?

http://triathlons.thefuntimesguide.com/images/blogs/two-stop-signs.jpg

There are many terms and written cues which guitarists have taken from the bowed stringed instruments which have been around longer than guitars or lutes for that matter. Double stop, up and down pick directions originated as bowing directions, pizzicato is plucking a normally bowed string, etc. It only made sense to incorporate already used and well known string orchestra terms on the newer instrument which was included in the strings family as opposed to using brass, reed, or percussion terms.

Double stops on a string instrument being invented by a specific person is a stretch. Violin, Viola, Cello, and string Bass are examples of instruments with arched wood bridges so that playing one string at a time with a bow is possible. To play two at a time is also possible and quite easy, anyone who practices a bowed instrument can and does practice double stop harmonized melodies as warmup like scales in thirds. Just like a guitar can be strummed to create six string chords, a bowed string player plays all of their strings by changing the angle of the bow as they drag it across the strings which when done creates a chord which rings across all the strings. Bach wrote many violin works with four string chords featured on one instrument. I can imagine someone inventing the name for the term, but to pinpoint the first to play double stops is probably the one who made the first bowed stringed instrument with an arched bridge, so they could fine tune the curvature, that's a longer time ago than the 1600's.

It was called double string and it just evolved to double stop.

A nut stops the string. Frets aren't germane to the discussion either.

Yuck...more "guitar-centric" vocabulary...

Isn't this violin-centric?

Another example of Wikipedia being full of crap.
Hey guys let's make an encyclopedia, but instead of using experts let's let any moron post that wants.
It's just playing 2 strings at the same time. They can be "power chords", 3rds, 6ths, octaves. Both strings may be fretted, open, or one opened and one fretted.
Cornell Dupree was a master and he called it two stopping.

I'm sorry but what are you going on about!!??:lol: The original question was not asking for an explanation of what a double stop is but where the term came from originally.



A nut stops the string. Frets aren't germane to the discussion either.

And what are you going on about!!??:mrgreen::lol: (I'm sorry, I guess I'm in a mood today)

How in the Sam Hill are frets not relevant and how does a fret not stop the string if it's being pressed down onto it? If the fret didn't 'stop' the string then the pitch would not change, according to my thinking. Frets have essentially the exact same function as the nut does. So you gonna haff to 'splain this to me.

Since I played for a long time as a violinist it always sounds weird to hear guitarists refer to all simultaneously played pairs of notes with the term double stops, since violinists and the like can't bow non-adjacent strings at the same time (we can pluck them of course). I also like the term diads as it is generic to any two note combination. Double stop soloing like Chuck Berry has done is correct within the original term because he used adjacent strings to play them.

I really don't get this particular about it in conversation, I know what people mean by the context they use the term in and language changes through common usage all the time.

I'm sorry but what are you going on about!!??:lol: The original question was not asking for an explanation of what a double stop is but where the term came from originally.





And what are you going on about!!??:mrgreen::lol: (I'm sorry, I guess I'm in a mood today)

How in the Sam Hill are frets not relevant and how does a fret not stop the string if it's being pressed down onto it? If the fret didn't 'stop' the string then the pitch would not change, according to my thinking. Frets have essentially the exact same function as the nut does. So you gonna haff to 'splain this to me.

I think it was directed at me. I stick to my story. I don't think it's a double stop unless you finger it. You are "stopping" it with your hand. An open string is not stopped for the purposes of this definition, IMO. It's just a diad (dyad?) if a string is open.

I get wikipedia and all that, but this is what the article says and I agree:
In performing a double stop, two separate strings are depressed ("stopped") by the fingers, and bowed or plucked simultaneously (without a string change).

My only point is this is a term that applies to most stringed instruments, those with necks at least. A string is stopped whether there are frets or not just by finger pressure on the fingerboard. No big deal...

Well,this is a guitar forum. I figured we'd all know we were talking about guitars, which have frets. My point is that open strings don't count as being stopped.

My only point is this is a term that applies to most stringed instruments, those with necks at least. A string is stopped whether there are frets or not just by finger pressure on the fingerboard. No big deal...

And so you were pointing out that the nut stops the strings as well as the frets. I get it now. It seems I wasn't following the story. Sorry.

Initially I thought it had to be two notes on adjacent strings with the same finger and consequently the same fret. But obviously now (or maybe always?) it can be any two notes on adjacent strings - any string inst. Frankly I don't think it's really a 'technical' term - ? Do they list it violin exercise books? I'm asking, I don't know.

*I would also agree that open strings probably don't count.

Well,this is a guitar forum. I figured we'd all know we were talking about guitars, which have frets. My point is that open strings don't count as being stopped.

I don't see the difference myself. You could play the same figure with one open string and one "stopped" as you can with both "stopped" What benefit arises from calling them two different things?

Just for the sake of discussion, this is one big digression at this point I think.

I do think it has to do with physically 'stopping' the string - otherwise there probably wouldn't even be a term for it - ?

Gentlemen, if I may summarize at this point: It seems to me we have basically divided into two camps.

1. The word 'stop' refers to the physical action of the finger pressing down on or 'stopping' the string.

2. The word 'stop' refers only to the string being stopped by either the nut or a fret and the fingers involvement is not mandatory.

If you will allow me several days to ponder this conundrum I assure you I will have my decision by the middle of next week. I suggest that we keep busy in the meantime with diligent practice with a relaxed but attentive demeanor.

Well then, until next week.

Eagerly awaited your honor.

There are double stop exercises for violin, 3rds, chromatic 3rds, 6ths, chromatic 6ths, octaves…it seems unlikely to me they wouldn’t use open strings.

How can a fret stop a string without a finger? And don't say with a capo.

Two pro 'string' players just told that, at least for violins, cellos, violas and double bass - a double stop can include an open string. Who'd a thunk it?

How can a fret stop a string without a finger? And don't say with a capo.

This sounds like a Zen koan. Ooh, I've got it! A fret can stop a string with a thumb.

To me the definition of stop that makes the most sense in this respect is "to interrupt, arrest, or check" as in the finger stops the vibrations in the string from reaching the nut.

The word "stop" comes from the Latin "stuppa" which is related to the idea of "stopping up" something, i.e. a leak in a pipe... so your finger is stopping up the string. sort of..

You can also have a stopped harmonic where the finger stops the string at a note and the harmonic is played an octave (or wherever ) up.

Frets have little to do with the term since violins don't have frets.


Anybody picking up what I'm putting down? This all comes from within

klasaine, would a single open note count as a stop? Seems to me not.

Well call it divine intervention or just raw brain power but I think I've solved the conundrum days ahead of schedule. Below is my final decision on the matter. Your welcome.

Two pro 'string' players just told that, at least for violins, cellos, violas and double bass - a double stop can include an open string. Who'd a thunk it?

Two pro 'string' players just told that, at least for violins, cellos, violas and double bass - a double stop can include an open string. Who'd a thunk it?

Only me.

See, the Majority can be wrong.
Though it's probably just the majority of 'guitar' players.
I asked 3 string players and they all said exactly the same thing. They also all said, "good question". Due to the open string thing.

Nah, they're wrong. It ain't stopped if it's open.:cool:

Hey guys, as a former pro violinist who went to music college myself, I own a music dictionary which goes into much greater detail about it than Wikipedia.
The great thing about good published non-web based academic dictionaries is that they back up their entries with credited sources. Double stops are covered in as much detail as needed by my pocket "Clark's Music Dictionary" which states:

[Double stop. The playing of two or more tones (in which case the terms triple or quadruple stop may be used) at the same time on the violin and similar instruments.]

It was described and illustrated in Sylvestro di Ganassi's "Rigola rubertina" published in Venice in 1542.

Contrary to my memory of violin lessons, the Harvard Dictionary of Music clarifies it to include non adjacent strings even if that makes the notes sounded by the bow in rapid succession rather than simultaneous, so I'll defer to the academic source on this one.

I hope that clarifies its origin as a term to the OP, not much more to say about it.

Isn't it something to do with darts?

115640

You must have to really jam the bow down hard to hit 3 or 4 strings on a violin or maybe that refers to playing pizzicato.

Isn't it something to do with darts?



wayne perkins solo in bob marley's concrete jungle

It's 1972 and the Catch A Fire album was still in production.

In the Island Basing Street basement studio known as the fallout Shelter, the basic tracks were incredible (say's Chris Blackwell) but his additional production gave the album an international pop passport, via overdubs of sounds familiar to rock ears, guitar licks of Alabama's Wayne Perkins being the most effective.

They called Wayne Perkins the "White Wailer" and today the man who gave "Concrete Jungle" that wicked, wicked solo, ruefully reveals that he never really got credit for his contribution. He is also disappointed that repeated requests for a gold record have been ignored.

Perkins had been working on his own project (a second album) for Island when Chris Blackwell stopped me on the spiral staircase going up to the top studio (the main room). He said there was a Wailer project he wanted me to play on. I said, "Who are the Wailers". Chris "said they play reggae" and I said, "That don't help me". After a brief rundown on reggae, Blackwell told Perkins, "Just get your Fender, Les Paul and your amp, and come on down.

There I was a 20 year old boy from Alabama confronted by these wild looking dreadlocked herb smoking Rastafarians from Jamaica. I had no idea what I was getting into. It was the first time I had ever heard reggae. OK so I heard Desmond Decker but that was like R&B to me.

After listening a while and a bit of "fiddling" around Perkins found his groove, likening reggae to a mix of "the twist and bluegrass". On the third take with the lights down low, he nailed the solo and "all of a sudden the place went wild" but the best was yet to come. Bob Marley came in with a huge spliff and stuck it in Perkins mouth. The rest of the night session went real cool, I & I-man !!!

Mjark,
Triple stops and quadruple stops are not simultaneously played notes, just as five fingers of a guitarist's plucking hand can't play all six strings at once. The bow plays the notes in rapid succession as the player moves the bow across each string, the illusion at high speed is to sound a multiple stop like a plectrum strums a guitar across all six strings. Many non-violinists may think that the sound stops when the bow is off the string, but violin family instruments are as prone to sympathetic vibrations as any stringed instrument, and the bow vibrates the string but when taken off the string the string will still vibrate until it is muted or dies out. The virtuoso violin works of Paganini and J.S.Bach are full of great multiple stop examples. Pushing down hard on a bow would make a harsh sound as the horse hair and strings would start rubbing up against the bow wood, it's not a pleasant sound.

I see, that makes sense. Funny, we guitarists call those chords.

Yes, but we also name simultaneously sounded notes by their complexity: diad, triad, seventh chord. So we guitarists also have different descriptive terms than just "chords" as well. The vast majority of string orchestra works are single line parts for each instrument, so when a section starts with two notes in one part that is easy to refer to in rehearsals as the double stop section of the part. These two note lines are melody with harmony interval lines and not complete chords.

A big difference in thinking between classical composing and much of popular music composing is that the chords in classical music are a result of voice leading and counterpoint in melodies, so there is a lot of horizontal line thinking with counter lines harmonizing. Forms like Canons and Fugues concentrate on weaving of melodies, yes there are resultant harmonic patterns but the melodies are the king. Chet Baker and Gerry Mulligan had a "pianoless quartet" which let them play counterpoint more freely than may have occurred with a piano comping vertical structures below their lines.
Modern music like most current rock tends to be chords with one main melody line on top, and the chords often move in parallel. Classical guitar written parts rarely have chord names written over the music, the chords are voice led in lines more often than played as stock shapes like barre chords.

I've noticed that about classical guitar but never really got it clearly in my head. Thanks!