What would you offer for a flooded 60's BF Deluxe Reverb?

Hey gang! This is my favorite new hangout so I thought I would present this while deciding my next build.
The tech I'm apprenticing for has a mid 60's bf DR just wasting away in a corner (amongst many other killer amps).
The customer is from New Orleans and left it 6 months ago. Sadly, it was a victim of Katrina and he wants my friend to restore it. Steve (tech) told him his estimated cost though really doesn't even want to bother with it cause he hates cabinet and tolex shennanigans.
Steve told me I should call and make an offer to buy it and do the labor of love. He's been in business 15 years and is still too nice to have a storage fee (you'd almost expect after 6 months of basically storing this guys amp it would get a little dicey).
So he peeked inside and feels there are some x factor possibly salvageable parts.
What is known:
The cabinet needs stripping and retolexing at least..., the speaker is way dead, the verb tank is dead. The chassis front panel looks very good and you can tell it was originally a prized specimen.
The x factors:
Maaaaybe the transformers are ok? Tubes? Components?

What would you offer? It could be
a mere $300 to restore or who knows? Its hard to tell the condition of the wood, but the tolex is all bubble-y and warped.

I have no idea what I would offer, but it sounds like a worthwhile project... can you post some pics? If everything's shot except the front panel and maybe some of the parts, maybe offer him $200? It seems to me that if I saw a BF Deluxe Reverb with new trannies, new caps, new speaker and re-tolexed, it would be a sub-$1,000 amp to me...

Flooding is bad for Transformers. Plates can fuse from rust and transX become paper weights. Are they rusty?

Chassis might be good. TransX might be good if they didn't get drowned. Cab might be salvageable, Feet, handle, bolts. Knobs are good. Grill cloth, Tubes, tube sockets, switches, board, may or may not be good.

You must inspect it carefully in good lighting to assess it's value.

$150 or $200 might be a good starting point for both parties. You can always go higher.

Why did the tech take it in if he had no intention of trying to repair it?

I think I read where Mercury Magnetics was trying to save alot of transformers from the Nashville flood. Sounded like a complicated and probably expensive tasks.

Chassis and faceplates and knobs is probably all you could count on salvaging. The cabinet would likely need to be taken apart and reglued.
Transformers might have been salvaged 6 months ago, but who knows now.

Why did the tech take it in if he had no intention of trying to repair it?

I know my post was super long. He did give him an estimate. I think the cust. was passing through on tour, or possibly moved away from Athens. I have no idea why they haven't returned to get it.

Hm, I'll investigate further when we have some slow time. I don't think it would be polite to post pics without the owners consent, but i do need to gauge the transformer condition. I guess it would only be worthwhile on the cheap, cause as-is, there's not a lot going for it.
Something tells me it's going to stay in the corner for a long time....
Maybe a hail mary $100-200 is in order?
It'd be worth it for the chassis and front and back panel.

Transformers can be salvaged from flooding if done relatively soon after the event. Basically put them in a container and pull a vacuum for a while, does not hurt to add a bit of heat also. Or heat and a bag of desiccant in a container. Six months later is a crap shoot.

Does the tech that you apprentice with say that the amp--not just the speaker and reverb tank but the whole amp--- is dead? Have you connected a good 8 ohm speaker load on it and turned it on? Have you pullled teh chassis and given a look at how the inside looks? I have seen amps that were completely submerged come out of it just fine with no big problems. This one might have been submerged for some long duration and the water might have been really dirty, right? I would want to see the inside. IF there is not a lot of debris and obvious problems wtih corrosion and dirt/debris, then....
IF the amp has not been fired up and since it will be dry by now, I would connect a speaker and fire it up. See what goes on.
but....if the trannies are completely eaten up with rust...and if other areas of the chassis and circuit have been attacked by oxidation, I dont' see a huge amount of value there. What was the estimate for the restoration? That tells us something about what the tech thinks of the amp. Does the tech think that he trannies are good? So many questions.....and most of the answers lie with that amp and your tech....from my point of view. What does he think the amp is worth as it sits?
Worse case scenario would be that the transformers are no good, the pots are no good, the sockets are corroded and are no good, the tolex is obviously no good, the back panels may be no good, the tube chart is gone, the hardware is rusted beyond use, and the board has to be stripped and rebuilt....probably needs 3 new tagboards, too, right? So, you have a stripped cab and a numbered chassis....with nothing else original. IT would be easier to buy a fresh kit and learn from that, imho. For the numbered chassis, I would give $125...I get the rest of the amp with it. IF the amp makes loud sounds and isn't all corroded, I give more.

Pull the tubes and see if there is any corrosion on the pins. How smooth do the pots turn. If they turn and there is minimal corrosion, I say follow Wally's advice.

If it were mine, i'd put on ebay... bidding can get pretty heated on project BFDR's.

If contaminated water soaked the circuit board, the amp will likely develop "tweed disease".

Gonna check out today!
Report to follow :)
I could have heard wrong, but I'm pretty sure the damage occurred around Katrina, not 6 months ago. It sat for a loooong time prior to ever arriving at the shop.

Wow, Katrina was more than six years ago. There's probably not anything worth saving other than the chassis, faceplates and knobs. The cabinet probably can't be saved. More than likely it's harboring some kind of toxic mold by now. tag boards are gone too if they got soaked. Transformers most likely fused with rust. Sure, You could rebuild it but you are not gonna have an original BF Deluxe Reverb. You're gonna have a clone built from an original chassis.

Got more info and will leave it be.
It was totally submerged in Katrina. The turret is ruined too and the transformers were submerged. Lots o rust. In surprised the faceplate looks so good!!
I guess after the customer got the estimate, Steve said he offered $200 cause he felt the cabinet and chassis could be salvaged and the guy never got back to him. Yeah, sadly the value has washed away.....
It's ok though! I'm one decision closer to building the Two Stroke by Dave Hunter :)

Is the tech you are working with Steve Hunter???

Transformers can be salvaged from flooding if done relatively soon after the event. Basically put them in a container and pull a vacuum for a while, does not hurt to add a bit of heat also. Or heat and a bag of desiccant in a container. Six months later is a crap shoot.

Another approach to salvaging electronics is to submerge them in denatured alcohol ASAP, which acts as a drying agent - pulling most of the water out, followed by vacuum or careful warming to remove the remaining alcohol. Lastly you flood the item with residue free contact cleaner. All of which must be done before corrosion sets in.

Often it is better to leave an item submerged until it can be processed.

In this case there is probably not enough left to qualify as a 'restoration.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

I'd offer to dissect the amp, evaluate the parts, then negotiate prices for whatever is salvageable.

Is the tech you are working with Steve Hunter???

Yeah!

"I'd offer to dissect the amp, evaluate the parts, then negotiate prices for whatever is salvageable." - KS

This sounds like a good project for all concerned.



Your mentor - amp guru - Steve Hunter said good things about the Champ Kit you built. That's very good to know. There was one part he recommended changing. IIRC, he said to use a 10 watt 470 ohm cathode resistor instead of the standard 5 watt resistor.

I bet the amp would bring around $400-500 on ebay.

Had it sat in distilled water, it would be different.

To properly restore the cabinet, (after removing the tolex, speaker and chassis) it will need to be totally disassembled and reglued back together. If not it will just rattle apart later.

The chassis will need to be stripped to bare metal.

I wouldn't risk my reputation by trying to reuse any other parts... it will be a comeback waiting to happen.

I bet the amp would bring around $400-500 on ebay.

IF an accurate description were given of an non-functional amp that had been underwater in the Katrina flood adn not turned on since and if the pictures were an accurate record of what is there....rust, etc....then soemoen would not only really want it at $4-500 but they are bettting on a very very longshot, imho.
What would you give for it, teleamp?.....with the description for the amp that we have? I am sticking with $125 for a stripped and numbered chassis. (And....I really don't know if it is worth that much. I gave $125 for a '65 BAndmaster chassis once, but I gave that much on ly because I had an empty 1965 BAndmaster head cab witha tube chart in it.) IF I were looking at the amp in person, I would ask that it be fired up. That might....slight chance of might....make me want too pay more.
Imho, the fact that a known amp tech has let it sit for this long is a testimonial in itself as to how much the amp is worth.....and that isn't anywhere near $4-500 ime..
Than again, as I have been observing with pieced together and misrepresented vintage Fender amps of late, some fish bite even if the bait is rotten....as long as the fisherman doesn't let on that the bait 'stinks'. :wink:

Your mentor - amp guru - Steve Hunter said good things about the Champ Kit you built. That's very good to know. There was one part he recommended changing. IIRC, he said to use a 10 watt 470 ohm cathode resistor instead of the standard 5 watt resistor.

Wait? I don't recall now! (checks pic) That was the cement one from the kit and we switched for a Dale CW-5 500ohm 5%. So still 5.

I want to pm you about another kit!!!!! :mrgreen:

I hope i'm not breaking any rules saying, but I just posted two super rare Rickenbacker Supersonic B-16a chassis' restored and on the cha-cha-cha-cheap....

Wally, $125 is what I'd offer too. But, people get stupid when bidding on those type of projects.

The only parts I'd trust would be the chassis/faceplate/brass plate. I'd sell the cabinet, and junk the rest

My $400-500 ebay sale is based on an accurate description, I like to sleep at night with both eyes closed!

IF an accurate description were given of an non-functional amp that had been underwater in the Katrina flood adn not turned on since and if the pictures were an accurate record of what is there....rust, etc....then soemoen would not only really want it at $4-500 but they are bettting on a very very longshot, imho.
What would you give for it, teleamp?.....with the description for the amp that we have? I am sticking with $125 for a stripped and numbered chassis. (And....I really don't know if it is worth that much. I gave $125 for a '65 BAndmaster chassis once, but I gave that much on ly because I had an empty 1965 BAndmaster head cab witha tube chart in it.) IF I were looking at the amp in person, I would ask that it be fired up. That might....slight chance of might....make me want too pay more.
Imho, the fact that a known amp tech has let it sit for this long is a testimonial in itself as to how much the amp is worth.....and that isn't anywhere near $4-500 ime..
Than again, as I have been observing with pieced together and misrepresented vintage Fender amps of late, some fish bite even if the bait is rotten....as long as the fisherman doesn't let on that the bait 'stinks'. :wink:

Totally! And btw, I have observed through reading through most of the builds here, that you are awesome! As well as soo many others here :) Steve said if I want to get serious about checking it out, we could throw some tubes in it and hook up a speaker and see where we stand. It's hard to get excited about it, as he's tried to contact the owner and didn't get a response. So that's why it just sits in all it's mysterious potential. I get the impression it will be like raising the dead, very doable, but a zombie of it's former glory to be sure.

Not to mention i'm so leaning towards making a Two Stroke amp with the single el34 or 6l6 and a 12"
If only Victoria could sell that super cool cabinet for a good price (haven't asked yet, but i'll bet it's pricey...)