Super Short Tele Bass

I've been kicking around this idea for a while , and I'd like to know if anyone here has tried it.

Why couldn't I use a standard scale tele body and neck to build a short scale bass. I would:

1. Use the lowest strings (BEAD) from a 5 string bass set, which would do away with the low tension problems on most short scale basses;

2. Change out or alter a tele bridge to 4 string, with the 2 outside strings remaining at the same spacing so it would fit the neck;

3. Use a "blade" style P/U (or change it to a bass P/U I could angle to fit the string spacing);

4. Use a neck with an undrilled headstock, or plug the 6 string holes and re-drill/re-face (3 on top, 1 on bottom) for the smaller lighter type bass tuning machines to help with crowding and headstock weight/dip;

5. Replace the nut with a blank or 4 string jazz bass graphite nut;

The scale length/string tension would be similar to fretting a 34-35" 5 string bass at the 5th fret, and the strings can be easily altered to fit the tuning machines.

I know some of you luthiers on here have lots of experience with this kind of thing, and can tell me why it is/isn't a good idea. Thanks!

I think that Tele headstock in 3+1 configuration would look bad and I think the strings will be really loose. Could be hard to play as well... But that's just my opinion.

You can get pretty close with the tension, but that's not the big problem. Steel strings strings that big on that short a scale length will not intonate properly or stay in tune. For example, A .125 or .130 E on a 25.5" scale length will not divide into even parts when it vibrates, the higher the harmonics, the more out of tune it will sound. Another way of looking at it is that the string will be out of tune with itself.

You can get pretty close with the tension, but that's not the big problem. Steel strings strings that big on that short a scale length will not intonate properly or stay in tune. For example, A .125 or .130 E on a 25.5" scale length will not divide into even parts when it vibrates, the higher the harmonics, the more out of tune it will sound. Another way of looking at it is that the string will be out of tune with itself.

I'm not as knowledgeable as some guys about this. Please explain to me why the string would act any differently than when fretting a 5 string bass above the 5 fret? (it should be almost exactly the same tension and the same length when fretted)

I have a 25.5" scale bass, strung with custom gauge strings. www.octave4plus.com

I got 105-45, like a standard scale bass, and they're a little floppy, so I'd go with the BEAD gauged set next time.

It's doable, otherwise companies wouldn't make them.

Hey, thanks empty cell. would you mind posting some pics of your bass? Thanks!

I'm not as knowledgeable as some guys about this. Please explain to me why the string would act any differently than when fretting a 5 string bass above the 5 fret? (it should be almost exactly the same tension and the same length when fretted)

I can't tell you exactly why it doesn't, only that it doesn't act the same musically even though the tension may be the same.

The term is inharmonicity. The thicker the string for any given scale length, the more out of tune it's harmonics will be with the fundamental. This won't be very noticeable if you're using a scale length that's considered normal for the instrument's tonal range and a string diameter that's in the normal range for the scale length. That's how they got to be normal, because they sound right.

But if you use too thick a string for the scale length, the harmonics become noticeably out of tune.

Here's (http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/10064-string-gauges-inharmonicity.html) a discussion from a seven-string guitar board that might explain it better than I can, and here's (http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/140751-strings-gauges-inharmonicity-question.html) a good followup thread.

BTW, I know someone who tried this with a Mosrite guitar. The tone was poop with thicker strings, and poopier with normal gauge strings. YMMV, of course.

I have a 25.5" scale bass, strung with custom gauge strings. www.octave4plus.com

I got 105-45, like a standard scale bass, and they're a little floppy, so I'd go with the BEAD gauged set next time.

A little floppy? The tension on a 25.5 in. scale is 56% of a 34 in. scale. That's a fact.

What you have now is the equivalent of using a 30-75 set on a long scale bass. IMHO not near enough tension for good tone and tuning stability. If it sounds good to you, of course, that's all that matters, but if you went head-to-head with a long scale bass, I doubt many would agree.

It's doable, otherwise companies wouldn't make them.

That's a bit misleading, don't you think? They made them to your special order.

Thanks Dave W for the info and the links!

What I meant was that they wouldn't make super-short scale basses if there wasn't some demand for them.

You are right, 105-45 on such a short scale is loose. It sounds like a tubby short scale bass. The D and G are actual really nice... though I prefer a light-top heavy-bottom set of bass strings.

I would recommend, if you do this, to contact www.octave4plus.com and explain exactly what you want in a string set (as in, same or similar tension as a 34" scale bass with standard strings on it). I got the 105-45 with the ultra core, which seems to stiffen things up a bit compared to the original regular core set the made me (they'll replace the strings to a certain degree to help you get what you want out of them).

I believe an SSS bass can sound good with the right set of strings and a good setup.

thanks for the link emptycell I definitely checked them out!!

I've done one. String tension is fairly low but it plays well and intonates fine.

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp43/spellcasterguitars/Thinline/IMGP3468.jpg

Hi Ken, Thanks for posting. What bridge did you use,(cant see if because of the "ashtray")
What kind of problems did you have with the build?

Did you learn anything that might help other builders?

Is there a build thread for your bass on this site?

Thanks again for posting!!!

I made a huge mistake when I decided to build it (my first build ever) in thinking standard bass hardware would work. I bought a complete set of Jazz Bass hardware on eBay, and promptly discovered that because the guitar neck was so narrow, the string spacing of the pickups and bridge wouldn't work. I ended up using two Jay Turser beatle bass pickups in the neck and middle positions, and initially an Artec Strat rail at the bridge position (later replaced with an Artec violin bass pickup). I used a Schaller bridge, chosen because it had adjustable saddle spacing that would narrow to 2 1/8". The Jazz Bass nut was too narrow, but a Precision nut worked well. The Jazz Bass tuners had such a huge footprint that they wouldn't physically fit on the Tele headstock and were replaced with Gotoh mini bass tuners. The headstock was plugged with poplar dowelling and reveneered, front and back before redrilling for the new tuners. The rest of the job was pretty standard.....A500 volume pot, TBX tone control, five way Strat switch, neck+bridge toggle switch. Jazz Bass pickup cover, bridge cover, thumbrest and string tree, modified 3 ply Esquire pickguard, Broadcaster knobs, barrel switch knob, modified Tele control plate, LP chrome jack plate, and Dunlop Straploks. The strings are from Fernandes (used on their 25 1/2" scale Nomad Travel Bass), and are PIE-ZO ZO-3/BS2-2000 Roundwound, guaged .065, .080, .105, .125, tuned EADG.

It's said that we learn through our mistakes. I learned a lot building this one.

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp43/spellcasterguitars/basspartscasters.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp43/spellcasterguitars/IMGP2494.jpg