What wood for a Strat body build (partcaster) ?

Hey guys!

I really need advices from the experienced builders on this thread (amazing guys like Ron Kirn, Preeb, etc...you guys inspire me all the time!! Sorry for not mentionning everyone here, but take this personally because you all do!!)

I'm planning to build my very first partcaster (YES!!) in a week or two, and i am wondering about what kind of wood to buy for the body...

I'm looking for somewhat tight sounding lows, punchy mids and not too bright or punchy highs...(i understand there's more to it than body wood...), what would among these be closer to what i'm looking for?

Solid Ash, Paulownia, White Poplar, or Solid Mahogany?

Of course, since it's my first build, i'm not doing anything in the high-buck range...just want to get a feel for it...

And let me just add that every builder here, either experienced or new, i draw great advices from you all!! If i'd get paid to watch over this thread alone, i'd happily go for over-time any time!!

Thanks!! :grin:

IMO for strats the tone and sound quality is in the bridge/tremo electrics (and pup set up) and most important The neck. (well any guitar really)

Use a jumbo fret neck, hot wound pups, heavy bridge with solid steel trem block (if using one)
I know some tone freaks will say there is a Huge difference in the wood and glue you use. But Ive turned some crappy azz $40 strats into some of the best sounding guitars just by the upgrading components mentioned and setting it up.
What kills the tone is the cheap light bridges and pot metal trem blocks, PUP heights and small necks.

Personally I would choose the wood depending on the finish your going with. solid paint, transparent paint, natural cleared or oiled. For me I would use ash and do a burst with transparent color to show the grain like in the "strat style restore" I have in progress

Alder if you are going to paint it and ash if it will be a translucent, clear or sunburst.

IF ya want "easy" Basswood.... otherwise Ash or Alder work about the same.... Alder and Basswood will be the easiest to finish if you're shooting for a gloss finish..


Don't get "hung up" on tone issues.. this is your first... it's not gonna be your last... just focus on quality parts and getting it assembled correctly... then it's time to state thinking about what you really wanna build, that you will change your mind about half way through the project.



rk

tone is in the electronics and your fingers,not the wood on an electric guitar. as ron kirn said just focus on assembling it correctly,then figure out what you like or dont like about it. change as needed.

Ron and Brandon++

I would pick a body based on the weight and the looks I wanted, and go from there.

Alder's a great place to start. And to stay, even :cool:

Alder IMHO- you really need to know about all the other parts like bridge, pots, caps etc. to go with Ash. I've made heap of Strats and I've even had to put a mahogany block in one. Things can get confusing regards tone- I'd go for Alder everytime for Strats. Also, take note,everything Fender did was an improvement or a cost cutting exercise.For example- 6 way Tele Bridges- a little of both.Alder is a more mellow in tone- generally, that's why they began to use it to get that Strat tone. Your call PraiseTele. Cheers!!.

i would use either alder or swamp ash. not northern ash.

unless you want a really heavy guitar stay away from northern ash.

traditionally alder and swamp ash were used.

supposedly swamp ash has a brighter and faster attack. it is said alder is better for all around.

if i was going to build an early 50's strat or tele i would use swamp ash just because it i traditional and was the original wood.. i would use alder if i were going to build a strat or tele and it was traditional for that period.

they started to use alder in mid 56.

if it were a blonde tele or strat they still used swamp ash post 56. although it is said some of the first 1954 strat guitars were on the heavy side but not all.

also there was the rare 1 piece swamp ash body strat.

Thanks for your response HardlyDangerous, MikeSimpson, Ron Kirn,Brandon Mac, FenderChamp, Tjalla and Tonetele!! I really appreciate!

Here's what i have in store or options: i've got Fender locking tuners, vintage sounding single coils aged white), white pickguard, 250K pots, orange drop cap, and for bridge i can either put a Fender style\spec hardened steel base with a big brass trem block, or and old (but brand new, in box) Kahler tremolo unit...advices on this? I figure that the Fender would be easier for the first build, and would be more adequate since i will use only single coils...

Now, some have mentionned about the finish...well...i am a little shy to post this here because so many have a lot of experience but...here goes: SHOEWAX.

My folks went to Cuba last year, and bought some little wooden figures with a really nice and even\shinny finish on it; i was trying to figure out what they had used and thought that it must have been cheap\easy to do since it's Cuba (you know).

I later found out that they used shoewax; they put it in good amount all over it, wait for 20-25 minutes and then just handbuff it.

So i had to try it. Bought a can (brown) and tested it on cedar; was more than pleased with the glossy finish! Of course, it just bring out every imperfections (like all finishes i guess) but it accomplishes what i wanted, that is, keep moisture out but not prevent dings and scratches...never liked thick finishes.

My next question was wether it would come off on clothes when rubbed and i found that the answer is no (even when heated a little).

Hope this dosen't sound too weird... :S

For the neck, i'm planning for the old Fender "big" headstock. And it is a baseball bat of a neck (the seller says its really big to allow buyers to shape it to their taste...and i like big fat necks so it will stay as is!).

Like Ron and others mentionned, i will put special emphasis on the the fit of everything (as best i can anyway).

I yeah, i also suspect that this won't be my last build...!!

I forgot to say, a good friend of mine will do a bone nut for it.

Thanks again! If you have more advices, please let me know!

Ciao!

Thank you Mabley123!

Since this is my first build, i don't want to bother trying to replicate anything historical; i just want to learn how to assemble and set-up a good sounding guitar...nothing too fancy here yet! :neutral:

Also, maybe i left the impression that i was building from scratch but actually, i'm buying the unfinished neck and body.

So this will be more or less a lesson on finishing and set-up.

Thanks again!

Any wood between 400 and 500 kg per cubic meter is perfect for an electric body.

Search this database. Nearly every commerical wood that's on earth is on there.

http://www.worldagroforestrycentre.org/sea/products/AFDbases/wd/

Use wiki to find the common names from the scientific names.

Click on "A". Click on Acacia koa. Check out its density.

Click on Acer saccharum. Rock Maple.

Click on "D". Click on Dalbergia nigra. Dalbergia sissoo.

Thanks!

But i think that your knowledge is way beyond my abilities right now...:lol:

Like Ron Kirn told me, this is only my first, so i don't want to go overboard with the technical aspects; just finish and learn to do an good set-up for now is my goal...

But i will save that link for some study later today!

Thanks Nick!!

IMO for strats the tone and sound quality is in the bridge/tremo electrics (and pup set up) and most important The neck. (well any guitar really)

Use a jumbo fret neck, hot wound pups, heavy bridge with solid steel trem block (if using one)
I know some tone freaks will say there is a Huge difference in the wood and glue you use. But Ive turned some crappy azz $40 strats into some of the best sounding guitars just by the upgrading components mentioned and setting it up.
What kills the tone is the cheap light bridges and pot metal trem blocks, PUP heights and small necks.

Personally I would choose the wood depending on the finish your going with. solid paint, transparent paint, natural cleared or oiled. For me I would use ash and do a burst with transparent color to show the grain like in the "strat style restore" I have in progress

So a Strat can only sound good if it has jumbo frets & hot wound pickups?

:confused:

When did this happen?

Stratman323...

I hear what you say sir (:grin:), but the way i interpreted that comment is this: when you have a guitar neck that feels great to you, and get a decent sound from the pups, i guess your hands pretty much do all the rest...

I've had dirt cheap guitars that felt great to play (and had an amazing sound to them), and i had more expensive guitars that never inspired me in any way, even though they were very well built...

I guess it's also an emotional attachement that you have to get.

I'd also +1 an alder body. Considering it's your first Strat, that's the wood that's been used on most Strats since 1956 so you can't go wrong with it.

But I question the use of overwound pickups. Some of the most versatile Strat sounds I've ever gotten were from Fender's 57/62 set so I'd look at something in that strength.

Admittedly, my #1 has hot pickups (Kinman Woodstocks) but I've found that tone can get a bit much sometimes.

Stratman323...

I hear what you say sir (:grin:), but the way i interpreted that comment is this: when you have a guitar neck that feels great to you, and get a decent sound from the pups, i guess your hands pretty much do all the rest...

I've had dirt cheap guitars that felt great to play (and had an amazing sound to them), and i had more expensive guitars that never inspired me in any way, even though they were very well built...

I guess it's also an emotional attachement that you have to get.

I agree with what you have just said, but I have no idea how you managed to interpret that from the statements I quoted, which didn't say anything like that.

Big frets & hot wound pickups are a personal preference which suits some people, but to suggest that you need both for good tone & sound quality is absurd. It's entirely subjective stuff being quoted as fact.

You're right! It wasn't really what was said in the post, but as a player for almost 20 years now, i know for a fact that how we feel on a guitar also affect how we think about it and how it does make us sound better (feel good=sounds better...to us, usually).

So i guess it will be Alder then!

I also love more of vintage voiced pups; i'd rather make the amp work harder than having hotter pups which can limit us in cleaning our sound...

I always find that you get (IMHO) a more well defined sound that way.

How about using mahogany for a Strat with vintage voiced pups?

Also, is having the big old Fender headstock going to change anything tonewise?

Some have suggested that more wood in the neck change a lot...?!?

Alder is soooo much easier than ash or mahogany if you want a smooth finish.

Grain filling is a PITA.

IF ya want "easy" Basswood.... otherwise Ash or Alder work about the same.... Alder and Basswood will be the easiest to finish if you're shooting for a gloss finish..


Don't get "hung up" on tone issues.. this is your first... it's not gonna be your last... just focus on quality parts and getting it assembled correctly... then it's time to state thinking about what you really wanna build, that you will change your mind about half way through the project.



rk
This is good advice. The parts quality and the attention to build quality will take you a lot farther than the type of wood chosen, IMHO.
If you're finishing this yourself, of the woods listed in your first post, if I were going with a solid color finish I'd go with the poplar. Easy to work and to finish, and does not require grain filling.
For a transparent finish, it's hard to beat the beauty of a nice piece of ash.

So a Strat can only sound good if it has jumbo frets & hot wound pickups?

:confused:

When did this happen?

Nobody said that...

What the difference then between a $99 squire and a $1000 strat. Better neck, electonics and hardware.

if not... why spend the money on an MIM or American strat if the Starcaster and entry level squire is just as good?

Nobody said that...


Yes you did. You said this:

Originally Posted by HardlyDangerous
IMO for strats the tone and sound quality is in the bridge/tremo electrics (and pup set up) and most important The neck. (well any guitar really)

Use a jumbo fret neck, hot wound pups, heavy bridge with solid steel trem block (if using one)
I know some tone freaks will say there is a Huge difference in the wood and glue you use. But Ive turned some crappy azz $40 strats into some of the best sounding guitars just by the upgrading components mentioned and setting it up.
What kills the tone is the cheap light bridges and pot metal trem blocks, PUP heights and small necks.



And that's absurd.

Ok gentlemen!!

Let's not get carried away; like i said earlier, i thought that what Hardlydangerous was really saying was his personal preferences feel-wise...but i also think his last comment in his first post was true: lousy electronics and bridge sucks the tone like a sponge!

I hope we can all aggree on that! :lol:

But, like Stratman323, i like vintage sounding pups better, and having the amp work more if i need a more aggressive sound; i find i get better clarity that way...

Everybody is cool and friendly here and lets not change that! Sometimes we want to say something and it dosen't come out as we would of...especially in written words like on forums...

We are all passionate, making it way too easy to get heated debate!! :rolleyes:

p.s. I just read myself and i sound like my mom...most be getting old.

Yes you did. You said this:

Originally Posted by HardlyDangerous
IMO for strats the tone and sound quality is in the bridge/tremo electrics (and pup set up) and most important The neck. (well any guitar really)

Use a jumbo fret neck, hot wound pups, heavy bridge with solid steel trem block (if using one)
I know some tone freaks will say there is a Huge difference in the wood and glue you use. But Ive turned some crappy azz $40 strats into some of the best sounding guitars just by the upgrading components mentioned and setting it up.
What kills the tone is the cheap light bridges and pot metal trem blocks, PUP heights and small necks.



And that's absurd.


I never said you HAD to...
i recommended it because of years of building and restoring guitars these are the things that made the biggest difference IMO, not if the body is ash or alder.

But if your saying it makes no difference and I go buy a crappy starcaster or cheap $99 squire and its the exact same as sound and tone as a $1000 MIA strat... ok

Thats absurd ?

Ill trade you right now, two $99 starcaster kits for a new MIA or MIM Strat. Who would not pass that deal up. 2 for 1.

Why not ? because the necks use small frets, cheap wood, flimsy and suck, the electronics suck and the bridges and cheap pot metal trem blocks suck the life out of the guitar. Who would build a starcaster or first act strat? Thats why most entry level copys suck. crappy electronics, tiny frets and tremblocks that flex and break and kill the tone.

if you going to build one do it right ! I prefer and think Med -jumbo fret neck with hotter pups works wonders... Ive never heard anyone say... um i like them better stock. If its too bright, your guitar has these cool knobs on them to turn it down a bit. If you want vintage sound use vintage style cables and electrics. Why use cheap muddy pups?
And THIS is why you dont use cheap bridge and tream blocks found on import strats. (broken trem arm hole and claw spring hole)

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/376484_10150490518241628_725176627_10923011_144891 6652_n.jpg

You made so many sweeping statements that it's a job to know where to start! One thing you said was:

What kills the tone is the cheap light bridges and pot metal trem blocks, PUP heights and small necks.


And that is definitely nonsense. Try my 1983 AV62RI, for example. Vintage frets, vintage style pickups, and a gorgeous slim neck. It's the best, biggest sounding Strat I've ever played. Yet if I'd taken your advice, I'd have ruled it out due to the very slim neck, the skinny frets & the non-hot pickups.

There are plenty of killer sounding guitars with vintage style frets and pickups...

:roll:...like i said: passion sometimes brings heated debate...

What kills the tone is the cheap light bridges and pot metal trem blocks, PUP heights and small necks.


to quote Albert Nimzicki in "Independence Day" "Uh... Mr. President. That's not entirely accurate."

What kills tone is not being able to play... period....

I have never had a sucky guitarist show up and demonstrate great "tone"...never.... and I have never head a great guitarist show up with horrible tone... some didn't care for the sound they had, but that was them... it sounded fine to me... and anyone else listening.

If you will get off your butt and practice, 99% of your "gear" problems disappear. That would put me outta business, and give the "nay-sayers" what they want... one less old fat bald guy telling them their gear is fine, they cannot buy the sound they want.

Ron Kirn

I'm always surprised at mister Kirn's answers...

:)

to quote Albert Nimzicki in "Independence Day" "Uh... Mr. President. That's not entirely accurate."

What kills tone is not being able to play... period....

If you will get off your butt and practice, 99% of your "gear" problems disappear.

Bravo, Mr. Kirn, bravo! I agree completely!

Tim D.

Bravo, Mr. Kirn, bravo! I agree completely!

Tim D.

+1!!

Steady on Ron, that's a bit too close to the truth! :lol:

t

What kills tone is not being able to play... period....

I have never had a sucky guitarist show up and demonstrate great "tone"...never.... and I have never head a great guitarist show up with horrible tone... some didn't care for the sound they had, but that was them... it sounded fine to me... and anyone else listening.

If you will get off your butt and practice, 99% of your "gear" problems disappear.
Ron Kirn

Over the years, I've found this to be absolutely true.
Nowhere has this been demonstrated more to me than in the church.
Nowadays, that's the place i play the most frequently. I have played with many musicians there(including one I play with every time the doors are open) who play with the most humble of gear and instruments. They don't have a problem with tone, they sound wonderful.
One person in particular, the one singled out above, is a particularly good player, who always says he's gonna get a better guitar one day. He's been saying that for 7 years, yet never does, even though he could probably afford to.
One of the things that is striking about him, is that he can pick up any guitar, anywhere, and sound like himself. Literally, I have had my back to this man, not knowing, and said to myself, "Man, Brother Timmy is sure sounding good tonight". Turn around, and he's on someone else's guitar. Sounds just like his guitar, but it isn't. Something in his tone screams his name, no matter what guitar he's on.
There's a saying around here. Tone is in the fingers. With this man, that's definitely true. And he's got tone in spades. I think in large part it's because he hasn't worried about his gear over the years, he just shut up and learned to play. I really think he could make a cardboard box sound great.

Boy did this thread get derailed big timy!!

I agree with Gitlvr; i've had one guitar that was really from Musicyo.com (now defunct)...a 80$ Kramer...did little mods to it, not a whole lot and it sounded perfect!! Big sound!

The body was made of thin layers of Agathis and something else (don't know), but i didn't care, it was wonderful!

I sold it to a student studying jazz; he later told me that it was the best one he played, and he even compared it to more expensive models...

I think now he plays a SG.

Now, can we get back on the OP please?