At Crossroads: Which DAW to invest in?

Let me say first that I've had a problem using GarageBand. Sure it's dirt simple and such but I'm from the old days of using a 24 channel MCI console with a 24 track MCI 2" tape recorder in a professional studio. I was an assistant engineer at one of the largest AV studios here in Central Arkansas in it's last "death throes" in the mid 90s. It was built in 1976 by a guy that used to record at Ardent in Memphis and modeled after their studio. He bought all the equipment from a studio in LA. It burned down a few years after I moved on.

I enjoyed that environment. Faders, insert effects on pots with pre buttons, transport control on the board, patch bay for all the inputs/outputs in the entire studio, etc. The linear recording was the only downside.

Now 15 years later I've been assembling my home studio, just for kicks, no pro work. Everyone in my family plays an instrument and we have a lot of fun. But I want to work in a DAW that I don't feel like I have to bend to my will every time I need it to do something.

So GB is out, what then?
I've looked at Propellerhead Reason and like it for it's similarity to my above description of a real studio.

I've messed with Logic Studio last year but found it just about like GB, just complicated.

Someone said check out ProTools. They also said stay away from Cubase & Ableton Live. I don't know why, but I haven't really looked into them.

What are your choices and why? Based on my needs (acoustic and electronic inputs, two mics owned: sm57 and blue Spark condenser, lexicon Ionix u22 usb interface with midi) what would work for me?

I know it's relative to the person, but I'm hoping to get a gauge on what people are using and why they enjoy using it.

THANKS!

Every DAW has its annoyances along with its strengths, and I ended up in Logic because the positives far outweigh the negatives for my workflow. I too started out in GB and eventually found it limiting ... went to Pro Tools for a couple of years and was glad I learned it, since it's fairly universal. The shift to Logic was a whole new ball game after I got over the initial learning curve — it does have some GB-like qualities on the surface, but there's a whole lot more under the hood.

After dealing with Sonar, Ableton, and Cuebase, I found Logic to be easy to use. Ableton is geared more towards rap, techno, and DJ's becuase of its workflow which is probably why you were told to stay away. I used it for acoustic stuff and it worked just fine for me but then again I got Ableton Lite when I got a Line 6 UX2.

I use Garageband also but once I get an initial recording down I transfer it to Logic and work from there. But comparing Logic and Garageband is like comparing Logic with any other DAW.

Like Woodman said, there is a learning curve but that applies to any DAW on the market but the basics are the same on all of them. You just have to read the manual and sit down and just play with it. It also helps to get any supplemental books on whatever DAW you decide on to get even more out of it.

A little off topic-
If you want to capture the feel of the desk and movable faders I suggest getting an I/O that is also a controller like the Presonus Studio Live 16.4.2 (http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=52) or the 24.4.2 (http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=59). Of course you can always save your money and just get the Fader Port (http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=2).

Dealing with any DAW with just a mouse can be challenge to anyone which maybe why you are having trouble.

Thanks guys. Logic is much cheaper these days thanks to the app store, only $199. Reason 6 is $399 for the full version, $249 for the Esssentials starter version. I haven't priced ProTools yet.

I plan to buy one of the supplemental How-to books when I get whatever I will get.

So far I can see:
ProTools and Logic are industry standards
Everything else, use at our own risk

Benefits of using what everyone else is using is that there is lots of help out there, am I right?

Thanks again!

I used Sonar for a few years. Last year I switched to Reaper. I recommend it highly for what most guitarists want to do (i.e. recording one or two inputs at a time). Don't look at how much it costs and assume it's a toy. It's not.

My history is much like yours. Cubase is what works for me. I have a partner that also uses cubase and one that loves Logic. Logic seemed un-intuitive for me but it sounds as good as Cubase to me.

RSI, thanks for that. $60 is a nice price, but it really looks like the kind of interface that I understand! I'll check into it further! Is it compatible with control surfaces like VJF1968 mentioned?

Control Surfaces: I was speaking with my sales rep at Sweetwater and he recommended, for my budget and non-pro use, the Zoom R16 control surface, interface and recorder ($349). Says it's compatible with many DAWs but also gets some wide and varied reviews for it's quality and lack of customer service. Don't think I can afford that PreSonus one but MAN! it sure looks sweet! Maybe someday!

Old Cane,
I have access to an LE version of Cubase. How does it compare to the full version? I've never installed it but might give it a try. It came with my Lexicon U22 interface.

It's more limited if you want to get fancy but it works fine to see if you like it. The engine on the full version sounds about 3 billion times better, though. For recording the family I think LE may be all you ever need.

Sorry for throwing another DAW in the mix, especially one I've never used. But I hear a lot of good things about Studio One by Presonus.

Since I started on Garageband, I just decided to go with Logic. The price drop sealed the deal for me. Just got it and I'm finding the learning curve to be a little tough...but I'm going to stick with it. Again, it's all subjective, but in reading up on Studio One I've only heard good things about the workflow. Just something to think about it.

I'll throw in for Reaper as well. One thing to consider that has not been mentioned is how the SW places demands on your computer. DAW has several components (interface / faders / computer and SW). Reaper has a very small footprint. Very flexible custom things available.

Additionally, the Reaper Forum / Support is superb. The community there is much like here. Lots of friendly knowledgeable people.

I use TonePOrt UX-1 & Behringer BCF2000 for my interface and controls. Heck if you have an Ipad, there are cool control apps (wireless!)

The difference you will save using Reaper ($150+), you can get a control surface.

My Behringer took a bit to get up and running, but I used the Reaper Forum to get that settled out. Didn't even bother with Behringer.

Thanks for mentioning that, it's always nice to have a lean fast working application. But with system requirements in mind, let me add to my initial post what system I have to work with:

27" iMac Core2Duo 3.06
12gb RAM
1 TB internal drive
2TB external Lacie Raid drive
Lexicon I-Onix U22 USB 2 channel interface with phantom power and MIDI
M-Audio BX5a reference monitors

Boldaslove71 (great name btw),
I've looked at that Behringer BCF2000, how do you like it? does it work well?

Dburns,
I looked at the PreSonus app just now. $99 makes it affordable. Looks like it's a clean application. I've downloaded the Trial and I'll also give it a try.

27" iMac Core2Duo 3.06
12gb RAM
1 TB internal drive
2TB external Lacie Raid drive

I'd say that rig can take most anything you throw at it.

That's good to know! Thanks!

pontmercy-

Looks like you have a smokin computer system. That second hard drive is very important, as well as the gobs of RAM you have.

The BCF is a behringer device (YMMV). The price was right. It feels a bit flimsy, but it has motorized faders (which when you get past tracking and into editing / mastering), makes the whole automation thing very cool. Right out of the box I had to do a FW update. The SW available from the Behringer site is weak. There was a guy on the reaper forum that made a separate program that is better / easier. The big thing for me was setting up Mackie Control, in order to get the thing to work. From there, a few tweaks in Reaper to get it to record fader / knob automations and I was up and running. My 7 year old son was facinated! If you make rapid fader movements, it's noisy. There are youtube vids that show this. For the ~$125 I paid for it, it suits my home recording environment just fine.

All of the MIDI / automation stuff was very new to me, so I had a steep learning curve. Once past that my little set up suits me well on my limited budget.

One other thing I have that is useful is EZDrummer. If you are trying to lay down decent drums and don't have a drummer / mics / space to record, this is a nice way to get started. EZ is a virtual instrument (VSTi). Reaper has a feature to slam this right in. Drop and drag the MIDI samples in and you are good to go. If you have e-drums or even the Rock Band drums, these can be used to trigger EZDrummer. Pretty cool!

Cool! My lexicon came with a copy of EZDrummer that i've never used or installed. Might give it a go!

Right - you should definitely check out reaper. There is always some complications using any daw. I`ve got 6 or 7, and I`m not satisfied with any one of them!
Here are some other things to consider:

your audio interface - make sure it`s usb2.0 or higher -there`s a real noticeable sound improvement. Also look at the sample/bit rate - it`s often lower on various models of the same product.

if you want the studio feel, stay away from sony -it`s got a computer feel a different generation of engineers love.

see what you can find out about the audio engine of a particular daw - ableton is notorious for upgrading everything ELSE in a new version. You may also see something like the cubase engine is the same as nuendo . . .

When I started reading tapeop, I was surprised to see what people were using around the country, and how prevalent tape still is!

It seems to me that when big acts come through town, digital performer is WAY more common than PT

It`s worth doing a search to see what PROBLEMS people are having with a given daw, and see which set appeals to you!

I would never advocate anyone turning pirate, but that `try before you buy` ethic of the torrenters seems to make alot of sense here!
good luck, and have fun!

I've been on Pro Tools since 1996. Wouldn't use any other software for Mac or PC applications. Pro Tools LE at the home project studio and Pro Tools HD with Control 24 at the downtown studio. It's solid, user friendly, and almost every pro studio on the planet uses it so you can take sessions almost anywhere (on a flash drive) for tweaking. The LE Factory system is a very good buy for entry level or home project studio use and comes with the Digi automated mixer. LE is solid as a rock on a Mac with external Glyph drives.
48 Stereo tracks, 96 mono tracks. If you need more than that better call in Bruce Swedien.

Thanks MonkeyKing,
Good info! I just found out that, after having issues with mic gain, my Lexicon interface will have to go back to be repaired (recall notice I never got) due to an "engineering change". :(

Telesavalis:
Good to hear your perspective. Thanks!

Is all your software up to date on your mMac? Are you running Lion or are you still running Snow Leopard? Most of the compnaies that supply peripherals for Mac based stuff have almost everything up to date but be sure and check Sweewater's Sweetcare FAQ to see what is and what is not compatible.

I'm running Logic Studio 9 on a Apple iMac 27" 2.9GHz Quad Core i7 with a Glyph GT050Q1TB external drive. Just got the Focusrite Sapphire Pro as my audio I/O. Using the Presonus Fader Port as the controller for Logic. Like Woodman said, your system can take anything that you can throw at it.

Just don't be too ready to write off Logic. It is a good system, and if I can figure it out anybody can.

I'll definitely keep it in the mix. I wish I could try a demo version first but apple has it pretty locked down. My attempts to do a torrent "demo" haven't panned out very well. Buggy. :(

Oh, Yes, I'm running OS X 10.7.2 Lion

I wish someone would make an overlay and app so that I could use my Magic Trackpad (i use both mouse and track pad to keep my arm from being overloaded at my day job of graphic designer). I know someone makes this for turning it into a number pad, now if they'd point their sights over to us on the DAWs!

One other thing I have that is useful is EZDrummer. If you are trying to lay down decent drums and don't have a drummer / mics / space to record, this is a nice way to get started. EZ is a virtual instrument (VSTi). Reaper has a feature to slam this right in. Drop and drag the MIDI samples in and you are good to go. If you have e-drums or even the Rock Band drums, these can be used to trigger EZDrummer. Pretty cool!

I love EZD too — have used it in PT and Logic (where it works as an AU). It probably rocked my recording world more than any other single addition. As stated, the groove patterns are useful, but the ease of editing them is great ... want to move the snare off the beat for an accent? Takes one second. Want to change a tom fill to snare? Takes maybe five seconds. I find this flexibility a huge improvement over my previous drum machine/loops method, and it's improved my recordings considerably.

For making sense to an AE, I'd say ProTools, that's what I mainly use. But it now seems vastly overpriced compared to Logic, which I am considering getting too now. I have been a Logic user in the past - and its predessessors 'Creator' and 'Notator' on Atari. It is very powerful, but I do find it excedingly non-intuitive.

I would consider Reaper as a contender for a good Pro-Tools alternative - it seems to work in a sensible manner.

Dburns,
I looked at the PreSonus app just now. $99 makes it affordable. Looks like it's a clean application. I've downloaded the Trial and I'll also give it a try.

Cool. Keep us posted on your experience with it.

On the protools front, I just saw this today. ProTools MP9 with Fast Track C600 (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/C600MP9/). It's a little higher than my budget but if I'm willing to start in ProTools SE, I could just afford it with the 6 input interface. The 4 input interface would probably we good enough, I'm only working with two now and this one has transport controls plus the multi button makes sense for customizing. I like that I could use multiple monitors as well, just like we used to use in the studio! $399-$549 might mean I have to wait a little longer.

full version of protools at B&H is $519.

full version of logic (with 20 gigs or so of loops & samples) is $199 from apple store. logic also includes a ton os software instruments & effects -- the instruments may not mean much to you (though the sampler is lots of fun) but the effects are awesome. Comes with a convolution reverb, etc.

protools is in fact industry standard for studios & if you plan on working in pro studios, you don't really have a choice. but for home / band / songwriting stuff, I don't know -- I'm really fond of logic. You could get the latest version plus a presonus firepod or fire studio & have 8 solid channels of i/o & 8 decent mic pres for less than the PT software itself. once you learn the workflow it's pretty flexible, too -- I'm in the middle of a band demo project, just cut 12 tracks or so in a live rhythm section session & it behaved, well, kind of like a mixing board. Then you start drawing in your automation & digital just starts to make a whole lot of sense.

Both programs have a steep learning curve. You will wear your brain out on the subject of latency no matter what you have, though with your computer rig you should be able to do amazing things. (I'm recording 12 tracks at a time & mixing 24-30 tracks with a big effects budget on a Macbook Pro with 4gb of ram on the internal hard drive! You should be able to record "Dark Side of the Moon" and watch a movie at the same time.) Good luck & have fun.

Not that I've made groundbreaking home recordings but I've gone with Pro Tools - since version 9, you are no longer chained to using Avid interfaces (Mbox, 002/003 etc), which was a big game changer.

I REALLY like SONAR,to bad it does not work on a Mac (I have concluded that you have a Mac).

For Mac users Logic and Pro Tools are the best.

ok I'll chime in..

I am running WIN XP with 4 gig ram

I have Sonar 8 loaded and I did purchase Pro Tools 8 Mpowered when 9 came out, paid $149 for the full version on some sort of MF blow out... My PC card is a 2 channel MAudio card so I was already prepared for PT8M. Installation took a mighty 15 minutes , all I did was follow the instructions as written... !

I like Sonar but it has a funky way of editing , my version also crashed maybe once a month on my PC..Sonar does have a nice feature set and a quality set of plug-ins...

Pro Tools has a very kool editing feature, very easy to use and understand, Smart Tool, also the Workspace Window is great..and then the Elastic Stretch feature...but the big thing for me is that PT8 has not crashed on my PC in the 2 years I have been using it...PT has less included plug-ins but in reality, how many different reverb and compressor plug-ins do we really need ? I have added additional reverbs ( Classic Studio Reverbs) and "guitar crunch" (Amplitube) plug-ins but have yet to use them...I hate when MF offers these things on blow out for under $50! They obviously know I will buy them and never use them...

Sonar is still loaded on the PC but I haven't used it in well over a year now...

Bottom line, you can get real proficient with any DAW and work within the pro's and cons', at the end of the day it's the music that matters anyway.

Another thing to consider if at all possible, keep your PC's separated, meaning if you can have your AW recording system not affiliated with your MAIL,NET day to day PC....the recording PC will have a good clean efficient life.

my take on the matter..

t

Well... among all these choices, it's going to be a tough call. The only program that is locked down and I can't tryout in demo is ProTools. I'm pretty sure that I'm not buying unless I can see it live on my screen in action.

So far, funny enough, Reason 6 is still top of my list. Next in line is Logic. Reaper was nice for $60 but I think it will require too much coding and add ons to do what I want, and I don't really want to think that hard about the tech, I just want to record and write.

PreSonus Studio One isn't bad but the GUI is a bit on the bland side. Most of these look so PC/Microsoft looking, even Reason. (No offense to you PC guys out there) I'm just a mac guy and have gotten used to a certain style of graphics.

So that bumps Logic back up, the $199 price tag, the loops, ability to use what i've already done in GB, it can use all the Sound packs I already own for GB, it's an industry standard like PT, lots of forums for support, control surface compatibility and mac OS/GB familiarity... even though I would have wanted a more "analog" style interface than the cartoony pics of amps and gear... It's probably what I'll go for.

Thanks to all who chimed in on this. When I acquire what I end up with, I'll let you know what I think! Thanks again!

You should really consider deciding on an interface and buying it, then trying out the demo versions of any DAW you are considering. The interface should work with any DAW and shouldn't cost more than $2-300 new for a decent one. Doing it this way will be insurance against laying out several hundred bucks for software that you don't like.

Good point. With my 2 channel Lexicon U22 sent to repairs today and the fact they are telling me it will take 2-3 weeks to get it back, now may be my opportunity to just go ahead and find that new 4 channel or more interface that I see needing (especially if I want to do acoustic drums in the future) now. I know I also want two headphone jacks as I'll be recording vocals in the same room, it would be nice to have a set for me engineering and someone else singing.

I'd like it to also have transport controls, which severely limits the field.
Looking at right now:
M-Audio C600 $349 online
Zoom R24 $499
Akai EIE (no transport) $199
Upgrade to Lexicon IO42 and use Presonus Faderport $299 + $129

There's not much else in the lower price range that offers 4 inputs :(
I wish I could test protools and then I'd know, I really like the C600 interface, it gets great reviews as well! The Zoom gets the worst reviews, everything else is in the middle.

This is "a whole 'nuther ball of wax"!

Good point. With my 2 channel Lexicon U22 sent to repairs today and the fact they are telling me it will take 2-3 weeks to get it back, now may be my opportunity to just go ahead and find that new 4 channel or more interface that I see needing (especially if I want to do acoustic drums in the future) now. I know I also want two headphone jacks as I'll be recording vocals in the same room, it would be nice to have a set for me engineering and someone else singing.

I'd like it to also have transport controls, which severely limits the field.
Looking at right now:
M-Audio C600 $349 online
Zoom R24 $499
Akai EIE (no transport) $199
Upgrade to Lexicon IO42 and use Presonus Faderport $299 + $129

There's not much else in the lower price range that offers 4 inputs :(
I wish I could test protools and then I'd know, I really like the C600 interface, it gets great reviews as well! The Zoom gets the worst reviews, everything else is in the middle.

This is "a whole 'nuther ball of wax"!

Well you could always send an e-mail to your Sweetwater sales guy and give a list of your criteria and see what he/she comes up with.

If there is a Guitar Center or other music store that has a decent "recording" department with a knowledgeable sales staff they might be able to help and demo some things for you.

I know I also want two headphone jacks as I'll be recording vocals in the same room, it would be nice to have a set for me engineering and someone else singing.

I used a regular ol' splitter for a long time with pretty fair results. Then I got a Rolls PM50s (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/rolls-pm50s-personal-monitor-amp) "personal monitor amp" that really helped, because you can adjust the balance of your input with the recorded material. These are marketed for onstage use but mine works well in my admittedly primitive studio when the performer wants "more me."

I wish I could test protools and then I'd know


I totally understand the "no try, no buy" philosophy, but the advantage with PT is that there are so many YouTube and other demos and tutorials that you can kind of get a feel for it without actually having it on your machine.

I've been using Propellerhead's Record for a while now and really love it. It doesn't accept 3rd party plug-ins but it's super stable and that's part of the reason. No outside code to screw things up I guess. I have it running in 64bit mode so it can utilize all the memory in my machine which is 24GB at the moment. It hasn't hiccup'd yet and I've had over a dozen tracks and all kinds of processing running. My interface is just a Presonus audiobox usb. It works great.

Good luck in your quest.

VJF: already talked to my guy at sweet water, he's the one that recommended the Zoom product line and really didn't offer anything else

woodman: Thanks, i'll go check them out on youtube

ADinNYC: I still love Reason, always been a fan of the underdogs too, good to hear your good results with it.

I fear that what I want doesn't really exist in my price range. The closest product that I've found that fits my requirements so far is the M-Audio Fast Track C600 that's made for ProTools. $699 with PT MP9, $499 with PT SE

OK, coming around the home stretch on a blitz recording project (5 songs start-to-master in 5 days) I've got to say, embrace digital. I come from an analog background myself (10 years as a live sound guy with some on-the-fly recording & home Tascam 8-track stuff) and all the stuff I learned has come in super-handy. And I still tend to go straight for mixer mode in Logic.

But I can't think of why you might need transport controls, etc. Super-easy to mouse yr way around. And what you really need is good pres and a/d conversion. Did this project using a Mackie Onyx-i firewire board -- basically as a dumb interface, though we did use the aux busses for headphone & control room mixes -- and I came away impressed with the quality of the sound. Overdubs on a Duet, which has exactly one knob, but which sounds lovely. Put your money where it'll do the most good, says I. That little Onyx board is $350 street & if it has the same pres & a/d as it's big brother should do you fine. Add in a copy of Logic and you're back in the barn for $550 & ready for the hit parade!

IMO....and I didn't read all responses.

The DAW program one chooses is very subjective depending on what one's recording goals/approaches are.
All have there merit so it comes down to what interface and functions are important to you.
Expect a learning curve and try all demos available.
I've been with Cakewalk (currently with Sonar 5.0 PE) since very early 90's but started with Voyetra which was midi only in those archaic times.

That's my take on it.

Good luck....

Well, I've made my decision and called Derek at Sweetwater today to order my M-Audio Fast Track C600 (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/C600/)(I didn't pay that for it!). It's 10.7 compatible. Has workflow templates for all the DAWs that I'm interested in, well. Offers the transport controls, two headphones with DSP built-in for zero latency recording. Multiple monitor switching. And has the premium Octane technology brand Preamps that get good reviews. Got a great deal on it thanks to some haggling!

I'll probably end up going with Logic but I'm still keeping my mind open to using Reason 6.

Thanks KC for advice on picking my interface first, then going from there. I didn't go with what you suggested but I think/hope I found the one that suits my needs the best.

Two years ago when I was looking for hardware and software, I was fixated on a certain M-Audio firewire interface. What I found out was that they are horrendously slow at getting new compatible drivers out in a timely fashion for anything other than ProTools and Digidesign related products (Avid Technologies owns M-Audio, ProTools & Digidesign, among many others). They had a LONG list of very dissatisfied customers using other DAW software because they couldn't use the device they had bought. The reason I know, is that I was monitoring their forum for daily updates from their development staff. It was very ugly! I went a different route. You are now forewarned.

If drivers for your preferred DAW are a hitch, you get free Pro Tools in the bundle ... that ain't chopped liver.

If drivers for your preferred DAW are a hitch, you get free Pro Tools in the bundle ... that ain't chopped liver.

woodman, the bundle also came up in posts 27 & 38.

He's now leaning towards Logic (and possibly Reason).

If I recall correctly, the main QUALITY audio interface for an Apple based system is Apogee. I would look at their products, if I wanted to go the Logic route.

woodman, the bundle also came up in posts 27 & 38.

He's now leaning towards Logic (and possibly Reason).

If I recall correctly, the main QUALITY audio interface for an Apple based system is Apogee. I would look at their products, if I wanted to go the Logic route.

Right ... my only reason for reiterating is that he won't be without. ... However, I switched from PT to Logic a while back and have continued to use my cheapie Mbox Mini (so I won't totally lose PT ... as soon as I've cleaned up a few pet PT projects, I'll disable it and go back to the Alesis Multimix firewire interface on my mixer). All this by way of saying the odds are probably good of finding a Logic-compatible driver for the Fast Track.

IIRC, the main issue was correct drivers for their hardware to work with different PC platforms, like Vista, Vista 64 bit and then WIN7 and they were having a heck of a time keeping up with all the demands. It may be a non-issue on the Apple side of the equation but it was pretty clear that they were taking care of their product lines first and everyone else could wait.

I did check, they have new OSX 10.7 drivers, I have also qualified them with a friend that is using them for a fast track pro. M-Audio has "unhitched" their devices now and even folks on the Reason forum say they are able to use them just fine. This model, however, is brand new and not a lot of reviews or testing yet. I can always return it, nice thing about Sweetwater or MF. Liberal return policies.

My reasoning for the new Fast Track C600 was that it offered transport controls, two headphone jacks with separate dsp/zero latency mixes, front panel guitar plugin, 4 XLR inputs, Multiple monitoring and programmable workflows. That combined with a two year warranty, good price, etc. I think it's the best place to start to build my workflow.

I like that I have options. For now, I'll continue to use GarageBand until I pay this interface off next month and then decide how far down that rabbit hole I want to go. In the meantime, I'll play with ProTools and see what I think. I may even tryout PreSonus and Reaper with this interface and find the best fit for it and my workflows.

If there's one thing I've learned from this thread, and I really do think it's the main thing to come away with, is that there are many DAWs and one or more of them are right for someone but not others. Using them and finding out what works seems to be the consensus.

I'll chime back in a few months from now and let you know which way I went!

After I figure that out, I'll be in the market for more mics, cables, building go-bos, doing sound treatments, etc.

...it never ends, does it? But it sure is fun!

From my research, there are 4 MAJOR recording DAW software engines. Logic, ProTools, Cubase & Cakewalk's SONAR. They all have their own quirks, strengths and weaknesses. If you purchase the full featured versions, they are all more than capable and are incredibly powerful recording and editing tools. One friend of mine uses Logic in a Apple based system in a professional studio and gets great results with it. Another friend uses PT9 (just migrated from PT8 and it clobbered some of his PT8 projects) and I have operated it a bit and find it not as intuitive as SONAR. I have never used Cubase by Steinberg but most people that are familiar with it speak highly of it. I'm on SONAR 8.5.3 Producer and also have the new SONAR X1 Producer, they are very different in layout and workflow. I've had some issues with the newer X1 and have decided to stay with 8.5.3 until X1 gets settled down. I have no doubt it will be fine in the long run. For your Apple based system, you have essentially Logic or ProTools to choose from, either one will do the job. There will be a big learning curve to either but the only way to get through that is to jump in and figure it out. On the hardware side, the audio interface is really important to the end quality of your recordings and it is determined by the quality of the A/D and D/A convertors and how well they are implemented. This is where the price differences between different brands and models come into play, along with how many user inputs are made available. Generally speaking, you get what you pay for... there is no free lunch. From Apogee, the Symphony audio interface is the standard and then it goes down from there, I've heard that the Ensemble interface is really good too. On the PC side, RME Audio is like Apogee is to Apple. You have to decide what your needs are and what your budget allows. Personally, I would be going for quality instead of peripheral features and do-dads that are not really involved in the critical convertor path.

Good luck!

and yet a follow up..

PT pretty much is telling you, us, "we are already proven"...I guess they pretty much don't care about giving you a full demo version...the fact of the matter is, they feel they are proven and if you end up with PT you will not be disappointed, it's a good package all around.

Regarding headphones, my take is that along with some sort of tube preamp (get a two channel) adding at least a "4 out" headphone amp right now will serve your needs for many many years. I have been using a $99 Behringer PRO XL series for probably 3 or 4 years now, I couldn't imagine being without it. I also just added yet another Behringer item, an outboard Compressor ( after the tube preamp) on the DAW input used with a very soft setting. This cheap puppy has really made a huge difference in controlling the input levels .

The DAW is one thing, very important, but don't lose sight of the other little things that matter , Analog is forgiving, Digital is..uhh..not.

I had bought Pro tools some years back with the MBox2 Factory bundle and was REALLY taken with the demo version of Reason and bought it straight from Sweden, it arrived within 5 days. I then picked up a Korg Kontrol 49 to use an an interface as it auto maps in reason and that was a really nice system. When I had to upgrade my computer last year, Windows 7 came in it and my version of Pro Tools no longer worked and it was a pretty hefty upgrade charge as it was pretty much a whole new DAW...so I was sort of in your spot. Reason then came up with a Record/Reason Upgrade for 160.00 that I bought through Sweetwater. One of their associates actually called to make sure I was a registered owner to be able to register the upgrade (I did qualify) bundle, now THAT is excellent customer service. Reason is probably the easiest DAW you could use honestly now that Record is integrated it is a seamless interface. The only drawback, for some, is the lack of Plug In's...those are out the window but frankly so what. You do get Line 6's POD and it works very well. Reason has a very low impact on a computers performance due to it's efficency in design from what I've experienced...I use the soundcard that came with my system and it's fine with low enough latency that I don't notice it. I use my old Pro Tools MBox2 interface, I just had to download a free Asio driver set for it but it works just fine as an interface. I use two monitors as it can get way too busy with one, I split the rack onto one and the mixing board/tracks on the other. The toggle is really nice on the rack to be able to 'literally' wire the componets together on the Reason engine and flop it around to impress people that drop by LOL. The Record interface is so intuitive that you will be up and recording in minutes, deeper use of this incredible program is really pretty easy as well because the built in manual is thorough and in layman's terms, there is a very good search function in it too. This was the third time I had upgraded Reason and their upgrades are alway reasonable (groan) I could have went to Reason 6 on a 'name my price' point ($1.00 if that was what I wanted to pay) late last year but just didn't feel inclined at that moment. I probably will down the road at some point though. Propellerheads seem to be VERY supportive along all fronts as well, their YouTube lessons are thorough and very easy to understand, they have a great discussion group just like here at the TDPRI as well. Yep I like Reason for all the right...reasons <argh>.YMMV

Reason does still work in Pro Tools through ReWire...you can export tracks as well and load them into any DAW program, and load any other program's recording as tracks into Reason/Record as well. I've loaded my tracks onto a thumb drive and put them into a friend's Pro Tools driven Studio and loaded 8 trk recordings from my Tascam into Record and taken it from there so it can be used in other enviroments as well. There's a lot of versitility there if you make use of it.

Good to hear more good about Reason. You said some of the very things that make me want to work with it as my DAW. I'm not in this to have every plug in, etc. I just want something intuitive and easy to use but with enough depth to keep expanding my creativity as I go. I'm not really wanting to be a tech head or a pro engineer, i don't plan to record anyone but me and my friends, I don't plan to ever put any of this music out for sale, etc. I just want to enjoy myself.

So that's why I'm settled on Logic (for being so very apple-esque) and Reason (for being designed like my old analog brain).

I'll give the protools coming with my new interface a run though, just to see. I'll let you guys know!

Generally Pro Tools that comes packaged with an Interface is not the full version, I guess we must ask ourselves, If we can get an Interface with Software for half the cost of the software alone, is something missing ? Undoubtedly..yes

I tried installing the Protools SE that came with my M-Audio Fast Track C600. Error after error trying to install it. even after the update patch, every time I would open the app, there would be some message of error. I just didn't feel confident about it running on my system and I've got the latest OS (10.7.2) 12gb ram, and plenty of HD space...So to heck with PT!

Was about to pull the trigger on Logic Pro 9 from the Mac App Store today for $199...I just couldn't get myself to hit that button! :(

My problem is (at least as far as I can tell) that LP9 and PT9 just seem soooo complicated! I really want something that is easy to use right out of the box. I have a feeling that if I just take a chance on Logic, it will prove to be very easy to learn being a very APPLE type app.

If Reason 6 (full version) was only even close to the price of Logic, I'd probably have already made my decision.

I don't need to be compatible with others, I don't need a bunch of plug ins, I really want to record mic'd instruments mostly and vocals, then add some rhythm and effects, etc.

But there are fewer resources to learn more about Reason and Logic is everywhere (info wise, book wise, etc.)

UGH!

Well....have you tried the demo of Cakewalk.

Those with Apple computers have to use some sort of compatibility program called 'bootcamp' but I'm ignorant of how to recommend further as I'm not a Apple guy.
I only know many use the 'bootcamp' thing without problems.
I've been with Cakewalk since early 90's and stayed with Sonar 5.0 PE

I'd suggest trying out Cakewalk Home Studio 7.0 should you still be pondering options.

Lastly...I don't think any one DAW is better than another...it's a very subjective choice and one needs to be comfortable with the GUI and workflow layout by trying the demos.

EDIT: link: http://www.store.cakewalk.com/b2cus/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=16-CSHS7.00-30C

Good luck....hope that helps a bit.

I would towards Reaper again. Download the SW and use it for the trial time to see if it works with your system. If so, pay the $60 and learn the workflow. It has a great forum and if you spend some time there, you will find most of your questions answered.