What are sound tech’s getting paid at smaller churches?

I think things at my church have come to the point where we need a paid sound technician. Our church runs about 150 people attending each of 2 services. We’re having a hard time manning the sound board on a consistent basis. The other problem is that the guys who do step in and do it, don’t do a very good job. In particular we are having problems and inconsistencies with the praise band mix. The other issue is that we really need someone to take ownership of the sound system and figure out how and what to upgrade. The praise band has only been around for a couple years and the sound system really isn’t set up well for it.

First service is at 8:30 and I imagine the tech would need to show up at 7:45 at the latest. The second service is at 11:00. I think he could be finished by 12:15. What should we expect to pay for someone to do this? Any ideas on how to recruit for this?

I got paid nothing when I did it.
Still loved doing it.

Before I hired someone, I would see if there was anyone at the church committed to "owning" the sound system. It would be a sit down meeting with the pastor and music folks then to understand what that meant. Could include some training, for sure some self study and time invested. Also, realize it is a tough job, some folks expect too much. Ever been to a professional show with very experienced, high paid folks, where the sound was lousy? It takes a good sound man to make a bunch of amatures sound good, often with less than spectacular equipment, and little practice.

300+ each service 2 times on a Sun morning and wed, special events, rehearsals

$free

no money paid out

The church gives you an avenue to use the gift God placed in you... For His Glory !!!

Not to step on toes just my opinion ;)

I think we have about 10 sound techs, 5 video techs, 5 cameramen, and 30-40 musicians/singers with 5 leaders. Only the director of worship is paid. Between 2 contemporary services and one traditional service on a non-holiday Sunday, we have just shy of 1000 people. Summers, 1/2 of that.

Trust me, I would love to have a member step forward and own it unpaid. We have tried to find that person and they don't exist in our current membership. That's why I'm thinking we need to hire someone. I also think it's more than just training someone to twist knobs. The tech needs to know what they are hearing and what they should be hearing. It's hard to find a volunteer with that ability.

Small church... paid... sound tech... I don't understand the question.

150:neutral: you will be doing better then most if you were able to pay your Senior Pastor. As people think in terms of the star system you may be able to get payment of a musical director by your board of elders/church council but I can't see most even thinking about hiring a soundman unless the church grows and other support positions are paid first.

It is getting more common it seems for churches to pay a FOH engineer. You could advertise it in your area? What is the market for sound techs in Cincinnati? If your budget supports it then just try and come up with a pay scale based on what you can afford of that hourly rate. I read somewhere some church pays their guy $500 per month for committing to Sunday morning services.

To give you an idea of the size of our church we have about a $500,000 budget. We also have a paid music director. You're lucky if your church has good talent in this area that doesn't charge. We just don't have anyone. I know that the church next door to us which is about twice as large has paid sound guys so it is not unheard of in my area.

150:neutral:

It is getting more common it seems for churches to pay a FOH engineer. You could advertise it in your area? What is the market for sound techs in Cincinnati? If your budget supports it then just try and come up with a pay scale based on what you can afford of that hourly rate. I read somewhere some church pays their guy $500 per month for committing to Sunday morning services.

That's about what I was thinking $100+ per Sunday.

The other issue I see is finding someone who would leave their church to do this. Or maybe it would be someone who isn't currently attending. Ideas of where to advertise would be the local newspaper and Craigslist.

Maybe when I retire, I have to move to Cinci. I've done sound in our church when we've been in a pinch (fully trained.....just hard to play guitar and do sound at the same time :) ) Our sound guys do Wednesday night from about 6 to 10pm, then Sunday morning from 7 to noon.

Nothing for Sunday services. If someone has a wedding or a funeral here, we charge them $50 for a soundman.

I can't believe anyone gets paid anything for doing the sound - makes me glad I don't go to church anymore. So much for being a servant.

You might check with a college music dept. or a Christian college music dept. Some kid would probably love the experience and could use a small pay check. On the other side, paying some non-believer would be an excellent opportunity to witness to them and drag them into church, just have to be careful.

I can't believe anyone gets paid anything for doing the sound - makes me glad I don't go to church anymore. So much for being a servant.
Well its supply and demand. The local high school might produce 40 football players a year for any local church to choose among but sound professionals are in shorter supply then the number of churches which could use their services.

Even the amatuer church only sound guy will have his pick of churches, many will stay at their home, a few will move to a new home to help care for their families just as pastors, teachers, musicians and church secretaries do

I am amazed at musicians and sound guys getting paid at any church!

I am amazed at musicians and sound guys getting paid at any church!

I can imagine it's a full time gig at a megachurch.

Paid?
http://home.comcast.net/%7E7511/TTF/muttley.JPG

You might check with a college music dept. or a Christian college music dept. Some kid would probably love the experience and could use a small pay check.

Great idea. IME as both a soundman and guitar player, it helps out tremendously if your soundman is a musician themselves so that they know what to listen for.
Also, IMO it takes a while to "train" your ears if you have no experience running sound/mixing a band. If you could find somebody that knew what to listen for and already had the ear for running sound, that would be a major plus in my book.

I can't believe anyone gets paid anything for doing the sound - makes me glad I don't go to church anymore. So much for being a servant.

I've seen what the sound guy does, and it's work! Especially if he's doing a good job and doing it right.

Just because a person provides a service for a church does not mean he must do it for free.

That's simply not a reasonable expectation.

The electric company certainly doesn't provide the electricity for free, and the janitors certainly don't scrub the toilets for free, and the publishing house doesn't provide hymnals for free either.

Another important point, and one I've experienced myself several times, is that if people (or a church, or any other group or organization) is not being made to pay for a service, then they usually will place no value on that service (or service person), and will treat them accordingly. At the very least, they will take those services for granted.

The electric company certainly doesn't provide the electricity for free, and the janitors certainly don't scrub the toilets for free, and the publishing house doesn't provide hymnals for free either.

This is so true. Basically churches just pay the going rate for services. People (myself included) will play music and engineer sound for free the other six days a week at bars and parties, so why would the church expect to pay music people.

I don't expect the heater repairman to come to my house for free and neither does the church. But I can invite my music friends to play for hours at my back yard party for no more than a chicken wing and a couple beers.

This is so true. Basically churches just pay the going rate for services. People (myself included) will play music and engineer sound for free the other six days a week at bars and parties, so why would the church expect to pay music people.

I don't expect the heater repairman to come to my house for free and neither does the church. But I can invite my music friends to play for hours at my back yard party for no more than a chicken wing and a couple beers.

Well I guess if we were talking about most ordinary secular activities I would certainly agree - but only sometimes. For example the editor of our Astronomy club's newsletter/journal doesn't get paid and same for the web administrator and any number of other people who give their services 'pro bono'.

So I guess it is somewhat excusable to expect that people in the church who generally celebrate 'the servant king' might find that serving the church is an act of humility and obedience. Once you bring money into it doesn't it all become very secular?

I don't know - I think it's all a bit tawdry - but everyone is different. So who am I to criticise and I mean that too. Having said that I think like the examples I just gave but that's just me I guess.

Well I guess if we were talking about most ordinary secular activities I would certainly agree - but only sometimes. For example the editor of our Astronomy club's newsletter/journal doesn't get paid and same for the web administrator and any number of other people who give their services 'pro bono'.

So I guess it is somewhat excusable to expect that people in the church who generally celebrate 'the servant king' might find that serving the church is an act of humility and obedience. Once you bring money into it doesn't it all become very secular?

I don't know - I think it's all a bit tawdry - but everyone is different. So who am I to criticise and I mean that too. Having said that I think like the examples I just gave but that's just me I guess.


You rightly ask, "Who am I to criticize?" after you judge their faith and commitment and find them wanting. The proper course would be to refrain from criticism when you know it is inappropriate.

The problem is that among a random pull of 300 people say 200 canwrite well enough to write and print a newsletter and church bulletin. Many would have taken piano or high school instrumental music lessons. For a sound pro all you might have is somebody able to turn on a PA and set the master volume. The OP's team wants to go to the next level and ultimatly the only thing which makes them different from the church next door is that their church coumcil is willing to pay for rehearsals, two Sunday services and perhaps the wedding, funerals, etc here and there.

I think things at my church have come to the point where we need a paid sound technician. Our church runs about 150 people attending each of 2 services. We’re having a hard time manning the sound board on a consistent basis. The other problem is that the guys who do step in and do it, don’t do a very good job. In particular we are having problems and inconsistencies with the praise band mix. The other issue is that we really need someone to take ownership of the sound system and figure out how and what to upgrade. The praise band has only been around for a couple years and the sound system really isn’t set up well for it.



It sounds like our churches are similar in size... mine has 2 services of 225+, and we're starting a 3rd service in January. In my church, the sound guys are part of the worship team... same responsibilities, same requirements, same schedule. And no paid positions, it's volunteer ministry. They take their responsibilities to heart because they're invested in the congregation that they are a part of, and by serving, they grow spiritually... paying someone to come in wouldn't do that. As the leader, I have the final say on equipment upgrades (and how our budget is spent!), but get input regularly from the rest of the team.

To me, it sounds like a leadership problem rather than a sound tech problem. Train the guys you already have, and get them on a consistent schedule... folks get excited about serving when they succeed at it, but you have to give them the tools for it. We've got a couple of guys on our sound team who had never done any sound reinforcement before, but with a little training & a lot of encouragement, they've become some of the most committed & dependable members of the worship team. Also, we've started bringing in some of the youth to help out; jr & sr high kids love technology and music, and with some supervision, learn the a/v computers & soundboard quicker than many of the adults.

[QUOTE=DeepSouth;3767486]So I guess it is somewhat excusable to expect that people in the church who generally celebrate 'the servant king' might find that serving the church is an act of humility and obedience. Once you bring money into it doesn't it all become very secular?QUOTE]

Where did this idea come from? We have it wrong IMO when we assume that a person must be serving with wrong motives when money is involved. How can anyone judge one's motives? I can't even judge my own. (I'm trying to avoid theology BTW.)

Trust me, I would love to have a member step forward and own it unpaid. We have tried to find that person and they don't exist in our current membership. That's why I'm thinking we need to hire someone. I also think it's more than just training someone to twist knobs. The tech needs to know what they are hearing and what they should be hearing. It's hard to find a volunteer with that ability.

We have maybe 200-300 at each of two services every Sunday. The director is the only paid music related position. We have 4 or 5 guys (why don't girls want to run sound?) who know how to use the board to meet bare necessities for sound, but that doesn't mean they make it sound good.

It is one thing to know what each knob is for. It is a whole different matter entirely to have the ability to make a musical mix. We have one guy who has nothing else in life but work and sitting at the AV computer to run the slides for each service. The church staff like him because he is always the first one there and the last one to leave and he will always say, "I'll do it." when the need arises. But if you heard the sound he runs, you would agree with me that the guy should never be allowed to touch another sound board again as long as he lives. He simply does not belong in that position, and has no clue how to pay attention to the service while running the board, and he certainly has no ear for making the mix musical. Bless his heart, but pass the resume's please.

But that's what happens when everything runs on volunteeers. The sound sounds amateur and full of mistakes, the musicianship sounds amateur hour, the stage looks amateur, the slides are amateur and full of errors, new visitors end up at the bling bling chrome and sparkle mega church down the road where all of these tasks are handled by paid staff. I'm willing to play and run sound for free, but nobody else is willing to raise the bar at our church. They just glide by on "good enough to get thru it for now."

A lot of folks are fooling theirselves. If you get the best sound guy on earth, you may still have "the musicianship sounds amateur hour, the stage looks amateur, the slides are amateur and full of errors" You may not be able to compete with the "show" down the street at the mega church. Your musicians probably are part time amatures that do have flaws and mistakes and a good soundman can help, but he will not produce miracles. Is the spirit of God moving in the church? Is meaningful worship going on? Flaws and all?

I attend a small church. We do not have a sound engineer. Our sound sytem is usually pretty good but gets out of whack every once in a while. Our Music Director/Singer/Guitar Player is a good man who does the music out of his love for God. Nobody gets paid in our church. We use the gifts that God gave us for his Glory. I wouldn't ever consider recieving money for my playing and singing in church. I am happy to use the gifts that God gave me for Him. It's all a Spiritual undertaking and not a carnal pay me money for my sevices thing. Oh Yeah, we make a lot of mistakes and the people just keep on worshipping God.

Paid?
http://home.comcast.net/%7E7511/TTF/muttley.JPG

+1 :lol:

I think things at my church have come to the point where we need a paid sound technician. Our church runs about 150 people attending each of 2 services. We’re having a hard time manning the sound board on a consistent basis. The other problem is that the guys who do step in and do it, don’t do a very good job. In particular we are having problems and inconsistencies with the praise band mix. The other issue is that we really need someone to take ownership of the sound system and figure out how and what to upgrade. The praise band has only been around for a couple years and the sound system really isn’t set up well for it.

First service is at 8:30 and I imagine the tech would need to show up at 7:45 at the latest. The second service is at 11:00. I think he could be finished by 12:15. What should we expect to pay for someone to do this? Any ideas on how to recruit for this?I played for 6 years in a similar-sized church. None of the musicians got paid, except for the worship leader, who is one of the pastors. They paid sound techs. Very crappy situation. We haul $2,000 worth of gear from home twice a week and provide music, and they pay the guy who runs sound. I don't know how much they were paid, but if I had to speculate, I would say $10-$15 an hour.

There's a reason for this. Someone even wrote a song about it, "Nobody wants to play rhythm guitar behind Jesus; Everybody wants to be the lead singer in the band," which in this instance means we want to be the guy on stage being the hero, and don't want to be the guy behind the scenes.

I have two other personal experiences with this. I played guitar in a Praise Rock band for several years. We played youth groups, summer camps, church functions, etc. I told one of the other band members that I didn't want to be up there drawing attention to myself, and he seemed very confused by that.

The second experience concerns "the guys who do step in and do it, don’t do a very good job." This church also put on an annual arts festival, and some people I know had an acoustic band and I volunteered to be the sound man. Afterwards, they told me that the mix was perfect and they wanted me to do that again.

Two ingredients are needed. One is a heart for worship. The second is skill at your position.

My question is: "Does a church of 150 people really need a "sound man"? If so, you might want to apprentice someone for that position, "train up" someone. You want to pay him? Feed him lunch and teach him a skill.

But that's what happens when everything runs on volunteers. The sound sounds amateur and full of mistakes, the musicianship sounds amateur hour, the stage looks amateur, the slides are amateur and full of errors, new visitors end up at the bling bling chrome and sparkle mega church down the road where all of these tasks are handled by paid staff. I'm willing to play and run sound for free, but nobody else is willing to raise the bar at our church. They just glide by on "good enough to get thru it for now."

Nope, that's not what always happens with volunteers. It's what happens with poor leadership and lack of organization. I've heard crap music from pro bands, and crap sound mixes from pro sound guys... just because they're pros, is no guarantee of quality. Most church sound systems, especially in small churches, are pretty simple, and it's not that tough to train an average person how to get a consistently good mix. But, someone has to take the time & effort to train them, and then oversee them.

"Nobody else" is willing to do well at your church, besides you? Pretty hard to believe (and kind of prideful on your part). People love to succeed, love to do things well... volunteers at church are no different. They need to be taught, though, shown how to do their best, given guidelines/requirements, and then encouraged (& corrected!) until the quality is there. And since it's also a ministry, growing spiritually & relationally is also critical. Again, it comes down to the leadership at your church... if the leadership doesn't care about training people to do well & encouraging their growth, you're going to have a worship team that reflects that.

One more thing... "bling bling chrome and sparkle" isn't what changes people's lives, saves them. It may attract them for a while, sometimes a long while, but if there's no substance there, it's not going to make a real difference in their lives. If you're involved in a small church, it's important to keep that in mind. In a small church, you have opportunities to reach folks on a personal level that is much tougher to achieve in a huge church, even without the "bling."

In my town all the churches are small (200-300 per service or less). I personally know most of the worship team folks in town, who are all volunteers, and for the most part they are willing to put their best out. Maybe someone doesn't have enough time to practice a lot, or learn everything there is on how to run a PA or drive the Media Shout or the lights or whatever, but I can't imagine even volunteers not at least desiring to do a good job. But like the previous poster said, not every church is the same in regards to fostering and encouraging this.

I *have* been on teams where someone was asked to not do something because of a lack of skill that training or practice just wasn't getting him there. I have also been on teams where people with the heart and the desire were blocked from learning and growing. I've been on teams where someone was moved to a different role because another volunteer could do his or job better, or a gap needed to be filled. I have been that guy myself: "We would like you to play primarily acoustic because Gene is better at improvising leads".

In each of those cases, the quality of the worship during services (notice I didn't say quality of musicianship or engineering) reflected the heart of the team members and the leadership, the willingness of the church to provide a great team environment, and the willingness of the individual members to be as selfless as possible and just do their best.

FWIW, when it is all working, I really, really like the vibe at the smaller churches, smaller sanctuary, smaller platform/stage, everything close to the congregation. That would be my current church... I am blessed :)

I wonder how some people can even see where they're going with their noses so high in the air. :sad:

Two ingredients are needed. One is a heart for worship. The second is skill at your position.


Exactly right... and when the focus is only on one of those things, or neither of them, things can go sour pretty quickly.



My question is: "Does a church of 150 people really need a "sound man"? If so, you might want to apprentice someone for that position, "train up" someone. You want to pay him? Feed him lunch and teach him a skill.

The worship team at my church would rather have donuts than money any day! :mrgreen: Btw, I feed 'em every Sunday, and I let them know how much I appreciate their hard work and commitment all the time... they love serving, and work hard at their craft. Like mrboson, I am blessed, too.


I wonder how some people can even see where they're going with their noses so high in the air. :sad:

Not sure what you're referring to, JB... care to explain?

Not sure what you're referring to, JB... care to explain?

If you don't already see it, then I don't know what I could say.

Another important point, and one I've experienced myself several times, is that if people (or a church, or any other group or organization) is not being made to pay for a service, then they usually will place no value on that service (or service person), and will treat them accordingly. At the very least, they will take those services for granted.

This is so true, I do sound board work when needed to and don't expect to receive any money for it.
But I do see the sound guys mistreated if anything goes wrong, even if it's not their fault. If a church has a budget for it being a paid position then, I see that as a great opportunity for someone to step up.

Some of you folks actually get paid?!? We are all volunteers for Christ at our church, musicians and A/V folks.

Paid??? I know a tech who is professionally an installer of sound gear and at his church he volunteers. For our church and others he charges a small fee to install, help set up, set levels and train team to run sound. Nick is a great guy. I guess I could see sound guys getting paid for weddings, but worship ..... nope.

If you don't already see it, then I don't know what I could say.

Ahh, so it was just a cheap shot? :smile:

I seem to have missed it too.... maybe my nose is too far up in the air.

Ahh, so it was just a cheap shot? :smile:

No, not at all, but do you really think it would be productive for me to name people and get a bunch of folks pissed off?

If you don't see it, you don't see it.

If you don't already see it, then I don't know what I could say.

Well, I don't see it, so you must be talking about me.

Nope, that's not what always happens with volunteers. It's what happens with poor leadership and lack of organization. I've heard crap music from pro bands, and crap sound mixes from pro sound guys... just because they're pros, is no guarantee of quality. Most church sound systems, especially in small churches, are pretty simple, and it's not that tough to train an average person how to get a consistently good mix. But, someone has to take the time & effort to train them, and then oversee them.

"Nobody else" is willing to do well at your church, besides you? Pretty hard to believe (and kind of prideful on your part). People love to succeed, love to do things well... volunteers at church are no different. They need to be taught, though, shown how to do their best, given guidelines/requirements, and then encouraged (& corrected!) until the quality is there. And since it's also a ministry, growing spiritually & relationally is also critical. Again, it comes down to the leadership at your church... if the leadership doesn't care about training people to do well & encouraging their growth, you're going to have a worship team that reflects that.

One more thing... "bling bling chrome and sparkle" isn't what changes people's lives, saves them. It may attract them for a while, sometimes a long while, but if there's no substance there, it's not going to make a real difference in their lives. If you're involved in a small church, it's important to keep that in mind. In a small church, you have opportunities to reach folks on a personal level that is much tougher to achieve in a huge church, even without the "bling."

Well put. I agree mostly. Yes, the quality of the music and sound reflects the level of skill, dedication, organization, and leadership of the director, and "nobody else" is making the effort to exceed his example. I think the issue with our director is not that he is lacking the skill or spirit to do it, but that he spreads his time too thin between his role as director and his personal pursuits, and the things at church at times take a back seat to it and suffer in quality because of it. It ends up sounding like it's "just good enough to get by" (another way of saying "amateur hour") when it could, in fact, be a lot better, especially considering the above average salary he is getting to fill that role. It's important to me to "raise that bar" not because I am "prideful" but because the number one comment we get from the crowds, verbal and written, is that they were first attracted to the place because of the different take on doing the music. If Joe Public considers that our best draw, then shouldn't we put some extra effort and polish on it? Like it or not, putting spiritual aspects aside for a moment, the business reality of it is the church needs to attract visitors and turn them into members or the church will eventually cease to exist. The ones who leave do so, in part, because they like the "pro sound" of the music and sound (done by paid staff) at the bling bling place down the street. There are probably other reasons, but the sound and music are the aspects which I am directly involved in. That's my narrow and limited nose in the air take on what I see happening at our slowly shrinking church.

Not trying to offend anyone, and I certainly don't want to dredge up some of our less pleasant debates from the past here. I work full time and have a home to support, I admit I dont have small kids at home, but I find the time consistently to polish my talent so that the contribution I make is a good as it can be. It's not too much to ask to get songs a week before rehearsal, to have those songs practiced and ready for rehearsal, and to have the sound guys remember the training we gave them (yes, we paid someone to train them) and pay attention to the service so they turn things on and off at the right times, etc. The guy who provides us with those MP3's and lead sheets the night before rehearsal, the same guy who doesn't really know the songs all that well when it comes time to play, the same guy who stands in the sound booth when he's not playing and watches those volunteers make all those mistakes, is paid a comfortable salary to be doing that job.

end of rant / vent.....

But I do see the sound guys mistreated if anything goes wrong, even if it's not their fault.

:lol: Any time something goes wrong there are a handfull of people who turn around and stare at the sound room.

Our sound people are volunteers and really just good hearted button pushers, they are not musical sound production engineers. Would our "show" be better with a professional sound person? I'm sure it would. Is that the most important use of our money? So far our church feels there are higher priority ministries.

:lol: Any time something goes wrong there are a handfull of people who turn around and stare at the sound room.

Our sound people are volunteers and really just good hearted button pushers, they are not musical sound production engineers. Would our "show" be better with a professional sound person? I'm sure it would. Is that the most important use of our money? So far our church feels there are higher priority ministries.

At least half of those of us who question the original plan look at a church of 300 and expect the same fiscal considerations from the local church council. It is not a flat out rejection of paid music and video production ministry members

First of all, soundchaser59, I want to apologize for my comment about "kind of prideful on your part"... rereading it, I see that it was pretty harsh, and not at all what I wanted to convey.


Well put. I agree mostly. Yes, the quality of the music and sound reflects the level of skill, dedication, organization, and leadership of the director, and "nobody else" is making the effort to exceed his example. I think the issue with our director is not that he is lacking the skill or spirit to do it, but that he spreads his time too thin between his role as director and his personal pursuits, and the things at church at times take a back seat to it and suffer in quality because of it. It ends up sounding like it's "just good enough to get by" (another way of saying "amateur hour") when it could, in fact, be a lot better, especially considering the above average salary he is getting to fill that role.

It's probably unrealistic to expect folks to want to exceed the leader's example... especially volunteers who have a wide range of talent levels & experience. I know I sound like a broken record, but most WT problems really are because of poor leadership. If the leader isn't fully committed to the WT, there's no way that the team members will be fully committed to it. One or two might be (like yourself), but it will be easy for them to get discouraged with the constant uphill battle against "just good enough." And pushing for the leader to get better usually gets you labeled as a troublemaker... been there, done that! :wink:


It's important to me to "raise that bar" not because I am "prideful" but because the number one comment we get from the crowds, verbal and written, is that they were first attracted to the place because of the different take on doing the music. If Joe Public considers that our best draw, then shouldn't we put some extra effort and polish on it? Like it or not, putting spiritual aspects aside for a moment, the business reality of it is the church needs to attract visitors and turn them into members or the church will eventually cease to exist. The ones who leave do so, in part, because they like the "pro sound" of the music and sound (done by paid staff) at the bling bling place down the street. There are probably other reasons, but the sound and music are the aspects which I am directly involved in. That's my narrow and limited nose in the air take on what I see happening at our slowly shrinking church.


If you're not the leader, it's going to be tough, if not impossible, for you to "raise that bar." Like I said, I've been there.

As far as the music being the draw... you have to be careful with that. The WT and the pastor have to work together, music + message. And again, that's where good leadership is crucial. Great music isn't enough to change lives and keep people, and the church, growing... the preaching/teaching is a vital part of the equation.

Also, you're always going to get folks passing through who just want their senses tickled... that's how most things are in our society these days. Many of the "bling bling" churches pander to that, and offer little in the way of substance. It's easy for a small church to get caught up in trying to compete with that, but it's a slippery slope to head down.


Not trying to offend anyone, and I certainly don't want to dredge up some of our less pleasant debates from the past here. I work full time and have a home to support, I admit I dont have small kids at home, but I find the time consistently to polish my talent so that the contribution I make is a good as it can be. It's not too much to ask to get songs a week before rehearsal, to have those songs practiced and ready for rehearsal, and to have the sound guys remember the training we gave them (yes, we paid someone to train them) and pay attention to the service so they turn things on and off at the right times, etc. The guy who provides us with those MP3's and lead sheets the night before rehearsal, the same guy who doesn't really know the songs all that well when it comes time to play, the same guy who stands in the sound booth when he's not playing and watches those volunteers make all those mistakes, is paid a comfortable salary to be doing that job.

Yup, it sure sounds like he's just coasting... But whoever is above him in your church is letting him do it. And it's just plain sad that he's getting paid for it. Have you ever had an honest chat with the leader, and shared how you feel about how things are going with the WT? It would be a really good way to find out where his heart truly is, and whether there's any hope of things getting better.

You all can go round and round about PAID or NOT but it doesn't answer the question. When you expect a free service you will likely get cheap service, and when you pay for it you should get what you pay for. But in the real world it can be anything in between. So, I would check local music shops, talk to the guys behind the counter and see what they think. They will probably know at least a few techs, if not be techs themselves. See what the going rate is. You could also run an ad and or post on the shops bulletin board, looking for a volunteer tech to get you on your feet. There are a few good folks out there who want to help and don't even know it till you ask them.

It's sad when we get so wrapped up in the competition with the gig down the block, that we forget why we're doing it. I was humbled when I was paid when I played at a funeral. I didn't expect it, and I put it in the memorial. I think justifying any pay, by gauging it to the effort we put in, totally skips where the gifts we have came from in the first place. It really is just a question of, is it your job, or is it your offering?

It really is just a question of, is it your job, or is it your offering?

I disagree, and I think it's exactly where everyone gets messed up: They want someone to do a job for them, but assume they should do it for free as an offering. :shock:


Wrong! :mad:


It's why the OP is getting what he's getting.

Pay people to do the job you want. Whether or not they return it as an offering is entirely their business and none of anyone elses.

To try to force them to do the needed job for free because you think they somehow owe the church an offering is just plain wrong. You never know, those people may make charitable donations and offerings on their own in other places that you don't know about.

After all, isn't the point of making an offering to make an offering? Or .....is the point of making offerings to be seen making offerings?









You should already know the answer.

Our worship band and sound/video group is volunteer.

This year we put on a live nativity production for the community. We hired professional sound/lighting.

For each situation we evaluate what we can do on our own, what supplies and skills can be donated, and what things do we need to buy.

Go back and read the OP. They are NOT getting what they've got because they EXPECT free service, so don't read more into it than was written. Often we get taken out of context too. What I wrote about being a question of offering verses paid was more personal and aimed exactly to those who EXPECT to get paid... and was also in a different paragraph on a related but different topic... We all get pigeonholed by our own expectations. I agree that you SHOULD get what you pay for. But I still believe there are competent people who will serve, if you just ASK them. That is just a comment on giving a chance to serve to those too timid to step up. I'm NOT saying you shouldn't pay. If you have a huge church and want to pay for everything so its all the best you can get, great. We, like the OP, have a small church, and are quite happy with the volunteer's in our Praise Band. Sometimes it IS a matter of budget. I may be biased because we use my sound system, and I do the sound, sing and play guitar and EXPECT nothing. It is a labor of love. Making it sound like we need to be "seen" giving is pretty.... well, it's just not what was written or insinuated.

the "church" I recently left had over 20 paid staff positions, including 2 ordained pastors, youth leader, kids leader, kids choir director, kids choir pianist, choir director, worship band leader, worship band pianist, worship band executive assistant, organist, tech leader, net tech, 2 custodians, hospitality director, 2 other hospitality positions, a trained non-ordained ministry leader, and more. Salaries range from $105/month - $3,000+/month.

how many services? 3. how many people per week in all services combined? about 300.

how much do they pay sound techs? $0.00

they can afford it, they choose to not. some staff positions are frivolous while needed ones go ignored.

I always thought that church was a place of worship,not a platform for wannabe musicians. :rolleyes:

We're a mobile Church, sound guy gets there at 8am, helps setup and tear down, he gets $35 per service. He is NOT a church member though I hope we are making a positive influence on him. He is the best "staff member" we have.

If your church is having a hard time finding willing people to give you good sound and the church is willing to pay someone, I get that. If you can't find someone with a heart for audio in the congregation, it can be rough sledding. One avenue might be to contact some local production companies and see if they know any guys that would be interested in your position. At least around here, most of the production companies have a large pool of part-time employees that will work when they are needed on bigger jobs and a fair amount of those guys do nothing but work part time for different companies as needed. One resource that you may want to check out is churchsoundcheck.com it is pretty much a community of people who do church sound, professionally and voluntarily. There are also some system designers there as well who could help you in streamlining/improving your system.

Small church... paid... sound tech... I don't understand the question.

Exactly! I saw this post and went... "Paid?!?!? *snrk*" I started out behind the board 20+ years ago, then started playing guitar with the group after a couple of years. We've had several stretches with no one at the board. Occasionally I thought I should've been reimbursed for mileage running back and forth during rehearsals :razz: . Our current sound guy is moving away, and I've gotta find someone else to draft and train, likely one or two of the kids in the youth group.

HEY SIX SHOOTER..... What did you guys end up doing to resolve your problem???

I have not been on the TDPRI as much as of late and need to catch up on things.

Six shooter, I have done a few larger church services over the years. As well have provided training seminars for church staff. A pro audio company in your area may offer such a service. Contact them and they will provide some valuable training to a few volunteers from the church. Usually the contactor who installed the sound equipment offers training to the church or institution.

Wow -- lots of thoughts in here and many good points. I'm not sure what ended up happening, but reading this has made me think about the concept of paying sound people at a church. I do believe that if you're going to pay anyone from the team, it should be the sound board personnel and possibly the worship leader.

IMO, it really should be a musician working back there, because it's about making things sound good, not just twisting knobs. Running sound is such a thankless job that requires a good ear and a good bit of knowledge and skill, I wouldn't want to do it if other volunteer options were available. Throwing a little money on it could make it a little more attractive for somebody.

BUT...what I would recommend is that the church leadership should make it a big thing, like mention it with the most important announcements that you need someone to take over the sound. Once you get some nibbles, give them at least a little bit of training, either in the form of an online course, local community college class, one-on-one training, or a book or something. And make sure to encourage them a lot.

At this point, if any church I went to took that approach, I would gladly give up my bass and guitars and plop down behind the sound board, regardless of pay.

IMO, it really should be a musician working back there, because it's about making things sound good, not just twisting knobs.

In my experience, musicians are the worst knob twisters when it comes to audio. My uncle owns a pro audio company, one time, they were doing some type of church gig and the musicians were complaining about the sound in the monitors, so they labeled the pull out rack lights on the eq rack with some ridiculous label like lows and highs and whenever the musicians on stage would complain, they'd turn the light, the musicians loved what they were doing, thought they made it sound great, the engineers didn't touch a real thing...

In my experience, musicians are the worst knob twisters when it comes to audio.
Really? This is definitely starting to diverge from the topic now, but I've worked with so many well-meaning people who were plopped behind the sound board but didn't know what sounded good and didn't feel empowered to actually make changes to the mix. They basically didn't know what they wanted to hear or how it should sound because they were joe blow off the street who would just turn up channel 17 when asked to turn up channel 17 (disclaimer: I was one of these people at one point in my life). I feel like musicians at least know when an acoustic guitar is too loud, and they turn it down accordingly.

But perhaps you were saying trained sound personnel are better at mixing than your average untrained musician, which is something I'd agree with. I'd like to get some training at some point, because while I understand some of the electrical parts of it and understand levels and what not, I don't really know how to EQ different parts very effectively and I'm sure I'm missing a whole host of other things.

In my experience, musicians are the worst knob twisters when it comes to audio.

Just the opposite here. We have 4 or 5 guys willing to run sound, and only 1 of them is not a musician.

When the musician guys run sound, we get lots of compliments and everybody loves the music.

When the other guy runs sound we get lots of comments about what was wrong with the sound, the musicians are not happy with the sound, etc. Number one comment is people can see the singers mouths moving but they cant hear any singing. Not to mention singers tend to sing flat when they cant hear themselves in the monitors correctly.

Fact is the guy knows a lot about what each knob does, if only because he can regurgitate what he has overheard the other sound guys talking about. But he has no musical ear and no sense of "customer service" for the musicians. He cannot make a mix sound musical and good for the house even if he were paid.

The one guy who has been there the longest and is most willing to do the "job" for free week after week is the one guy who should not be allowed anywhere near a mixer....... the same guy who makes the schedule for who will run sound. When he's not running sound he runs the a/v slides for the lyrics and the message, and he always has errors in that too. But he's been there longer than anybody else, his life consists entirely of efficiency apartment, work, and church sound booth, and nobody has any notion of asking him to let others fill the tasks.