Gfs kit?

anybody built one of these? i am thinking of building one of these but i have no prior knowledge or skill of building guitars.

I have also been thinking about getting it with a vintage hotrails kit from gfs as well for a bit thicker sound. I currently own a strat plus for twangier sounds.

I am looking for something that I am going to want to play as well.

Hi Stratplyr,

I just purchased a Tele kit from GFS. I have never build a guitar before either. It looked "pretty good" to my newbie eye. I will tell you that it comes without any instructions! An email to GFS about that was met with this response " no instructions, you get a box of parts for your $89". So, this forum has been just the resource one needs to get started. Also, since you're new at this too, I'll share this with you. Go to another kit maker's website and download the PDF instruction manual: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Heirloom-Curly-Maple-Telecaster-Guitar-Kit/H8070 That has some good details.

If you get a kit, good luck and enjoy!

Welcome to the TDPRI forum guys! :smile:. You've come to the right place.None of the cheaper kits come with instructions (it's part of what makes them cheap :wink:). One thing it does do is let you be more creative, and it makes you have to think, and do your research (which you obviously have, your here :smile:). Try to see it as an opportunity to make the Tele your own personal guitar. After all, Fender and Squier make all the rest :wink:


Dave

Welcome and good luck on your builds. There is a lot of info on here that ll help you out!

Hello again

I'm having bizarre intonation / setup issues with the newly completed GFS telecaster kit. Let me know if I should continue with that here or start a new thread?

The issues are that when adjusting the bridge for intonation I had to move the bridge segments WAY beyond 25.5 inches. On the attached image, see that the low 'E' saddle is beyond 25.75 ! ( OK, cannot figure out how to attach the image, what? you have to have your own website.. and point to it? )

Now, even with this intonation set, after tuning, the open string chords sound like crap ( like the intonation is off ), but the bizarre thing is that 7th fret and 9th fret chords sound normal,and quite good.

The nut seems "ok", I measured with an automotive feeler gauge, .012"
under the low 'E' string at the first fret,while fretting at the 3rd fret,
and about .050" with no fretting.

I was following this guide for setup: http://www.guitarattack.com/repair/intonation.htm

So... Anyone been down this road before, or any thoughts?
Any other piece of evidence you would want to know?

I have set the intonation on my other ( factory ) guitar, after dismantle
and re-assembly with no issues, but this is my first build of a guitar.

Ref my above Post:
Here is the picture of the bridge I wanted to include.

Ref my above Post:
Here is the picture of the bridge I wanted to include.

You need to include a pic of the entire guitar, also, do you have another 25 1/2" scale neck to compare to that one? At the least, measure that one from the inside of the nut to the 12th fret, what are the results. Last but not least, if it came with strings, your not using them are you? Just a few thoughts, post some pics :smile:

Dave

One thing about the 3 saddle tele bridge is the intonation compromise if you don't have "compensated" saddles, which you do not appear to have.

Judging from the amount of compression in the saddle springs your bridge position is acceptable, so what strings are you using? GFS's house brand strings make suck sound good

I don't think it's all that bizarre that you need to go to
about 25.75" to get the low E string intonated.

A rule of thumb I have heard for aproximate bridge
placement is "1 mm behind scale length for high E string,
another 3 mm for low E string". This gets you pretty
close to 24.75" for the saddle position on the low E
string.

Are you now intonated on the low E string, or were
you able to get the saddle back no further? What
are you using to test intonation?

If you need to get the lowest E saddle further back,
you can cut the spring if necessary (but from your
photo it looks like there is room for adjustment).

If your nut looks good, and the intonation for each
string is good, and the action is not too high, but
chords are sounding bad, then maybe there are
problems with the frets? I guess it's possible that
the frets aren't properly located. Another issue
could be that the frets are poorly crowned.

edit: the point Dave and celeste make about lousy strings is excellent.

Hope this helps.

Thanks to all who replied!

I do not have another 25.5" scale guitar, but I do have a 25" scale acoustic, and nut to saddle on it measured just under 25.25 ... which is the same .25" longer than expected as on my GFS build.
Guess I was a little thrown off by what I read on the setup website I include in my first post, it had "initial" intonation settings of 1/8" and 1/16" and 1/32" longer than scale
( depending on the string ). Didn't seem correct that I should wind up more than 1/4" longer, but after comparing to the acoustic, it may well be.
The bottom of the height adjust shaft is now butted up against the screw that fastens the bridge plate. So no more adjustment but I was pretty well split with the "E" and "A" at that point, "E" is still sharp and "A" was right on. Best I can do.

Yes I am using the GFS strings, didn't know better :-O the poster's comment: "GFS's house brand strings make suck sound good" :-) puts it in perspective I 'spose.

The thing that surprized me, and makes me think something is not setup right, is the way the open string chords sound (bad) as opposed to the 7th and 9th fret barre chords sound (good). I wanted to upload an mp3 recording I made of it but it seems pictures are all you can upload.

Fret spacing... don't even want to think about that. Are there measurements to check that, anyone know?

I'll get good strings tomorrow and re-start from there.


One of you asked for a picture of the entire guitar:

I also just built a gfs tele kit and I'm having the same problem, i have the saddles as far back as they will go and 12th fret is still tuning sharp on everything but the high E and B strings which I can get pretty close. I was using the set of strings that came in the kit and I replaced them with a set of GFS strings that ordered along with the kit and it's exactly the same.. Which is not surprising because the strings look exactly the same :oops:

I'm also getting a buzz at the 9th fret only, I think I'll have to figure out how to shape that fret better?

One of you asked for a picture of the entire guitar:

Nice :D How did you do the finish?

I also just built a gfs tele kit and I'm having the same problem, i have the saddles as far back as they will go and 12th fret is still tuning sharp on everything but the high E and B strings which I can get pretty close. I was using the set of strings that came in the kit and I replaced them with a set of GFS strings that ordered along with the kit and it's exactly the same.. Which is not surprising because the strings look exactly the same :oops:

I'm also getting a buzz at the 9th fret only, I think I'll have to figure out how to shape that fret better?

If good strings don't help with the intonation, i.e. you are still sharp at the 12th fret, you can remove the springs from the saddle screws and get the saddles back some more. I had to do that on a Rondo SX Tele that the bridge pickup route was in the wrong place, so rather then touching up the route they reset the bridge about 1/4 closer to the neck.

There are a number of ~$15 kits that work well to level single frets to get rid of buzz. Likely that neck could benefit from a complete level, never saw a GFS neck that couldn't, but just getting the 9th not buzzing will make you feel so much better about your building.

If good strings don't help with the intonation, i.e. you are still sharp at the 12th fret, you can remove the springs from the saddle screws and get the saddles back some more. I had to do that on a Rondo SX Tele that the bridge pickup route was in the wrong place, so rather then touching up the route they reset the bridge about 1/4 closer to the neck.


The thing that's stopping me from moving the saddles back more is that the height adjustment screws are right up against the screws holding the bridge to the body.

the screws holding the bridge to the body

These are not countersunk into the bridge?

The thing that's stopping me from moving the saddles back more is that the height adjustment screws are right up against the screws holding the bridge to the body.

That is where you guess where it needs to be, loosen the strings, tighten the saddle into position. you need to adjust the height adjustment screws to account for the contour of the screw head. Then tune to pitch and hope you guessed right. If not repeat process.

These are not countersunk into the bridge?

No sir - check the image above, mine look exactly like that

That is where you guess where it needs to be, loosen the strings, tighten the saddle into position. you need to adjust the height adjustment screws to account for the contour of the screw head. Then tune to pitch and hope you guessed right. If not repeat process.

I'll give this a go after I obtain some new strings, thank you for your help :)

These are not countersunk into the bridge?

I couldn't quite tell, I think they are oval heads, so would have an 82 deg angle on the bottom, but a dome top.

Did a ton of searching and reading about intonation & came across this:
( courtesy of Frets.com, from his "ScaleLength FAQ" )

Now, just to keep us off balance, a lot of makers cut about .020" from the nut end to improve the intonation in lower ranges. This really does work, and it's been done for as long as I can remember by various technicians as a repair technique.

I found the formulas for fret spacing, and have determined the following;
The formula reveals nut to 1st fret for the GFS Tele to be 1.431" and it's actually 1.436".
For comaprison I did the calc for my (factory) acoustic (25" scale) so the formula reveals nut to 1st fret to be 1.403" and it's actually 1.372.
.31" shorter than expected! For lower range intonation I have to believe. ( I'm using precision calipers by the way ).
So.. I believe I should shorten the nut to 1st fret by .30" to make this guitar sound right. I'll have to make a new (wider) nut, this GFS one seems like crap anyway, the "D" string is clearly higher than the others, and "B" string looks lower.

The other thing I observed is that when measuring to the 12th fret the 12.75 line is on the leading edge of the 12th fret ( see image ), now my frets measure out at .105" wide, cutting .030" off the fretboard would actually help move the 12.75" line very close to fret center!
( The acoustic was dead on at the 12th fret BTW )

I think this is where I'm headed... unless someone can clearly talk me out of it.

jonphilpott; looks like you and I are on the same page with these kits.
While I have this thing apart I am going to move the bridge back away from the nut so I will have full intonation adjustment. Also, since you asked: I just used a full bodied red mahogany stain to mostly cover up the not-show-able grain, and then 2 thin coats of oil based polyurathane.

D'oh. Well if it helps, changing the strings helped a bit, e B D G are in tune at 12th fret now, i should be able to adjust the E & A into tune.

Thanks for the update jonphilpott, question for you, how do the open string chords sound? Was there an improvement? Or did they not not bad to you with the old strings? New strings would be BY FAR the easiest fix... duh!

It looks like you have plenty of room to take the saddles back farther- the screw head being in the way is an issue. I had a similar problem with a Wilk bridge which came with size 8 panhead screws. I plugged the holes with a dowel and remounted the bridge with #6 x 1" long flat head screws which sit flush with the bridge plate and problem solved. I can now get the saddles back farther and have plenty of intonation range.

Bring the bridge with you to a hardware store and try different #6 x 1" screws with smaller heads to find the right ones.

Lou

The other thing I observed is that when measuring to the 12th fret the 12.75 line is on the leading edge of the 12th fret ( see image ), now my frets measure out at .105" wide, cutting .030" off the fretboard would actually help move the 12.75" line very close to fret center!
( The acoustic was dead on at the 12th fret BTW )

I think this is where I'm headed... unless someone can clearly talk me out of it.


My 12th fret is almost at 12.75", its a little further down, but not by much.

Changing strings definitely helped for me if you want to try that first ;), I moved the saddle back so its on the bridge screw a little and got it almost dead on.

Thanks for the update jonphilpott, question for you, how do the open string chords sound? Was there an improvement? Or did they not not bad to you with the old strings? New strings would be BY FAR the easiest fix... duh!

There's an improvement with the open chords - to my ear anyway - i checked with a tuner on the open G and some were still a little sharp, but i think its workable.

It looks like you have plenty of room to take the saddles back farther- the screw head being in the way is an issue. I had a similar problem with a Wilk bridge which came with size 8 panhead screws. I plugged the holes with a dowel and remounted the bridge with #6 x 1" long flat head screws which sit flush with the bridge plate and problem solved. I can now get the saddles back farther and have plenty of intonation range.

Bring the bridge with you to a hardware store and try different #6 x 1" screws with smaller heads to find the right ones.

Lou

Good idea! I'll have to try this.

There's also this 'problem solving' bridge that GFS has:

http://www.guitarfetish.com/thumbnail.asp?file=assets/images/products/10dtebrsostb.jpg&maxx=0&maxy=300

http://www.guitarfetish.com/105mm-Dual-Load-tele-bridge-Solid-Steel-Baseplate-Chrome_p_3.html

Keep in mind these kits are VERY basic. just enought to get you a playable guitar.

If you want a guitar you can properly set up and sounds good you need to upgrade the hardware. Better Bridge with compensated saddles and counter sunk fasteners, pups and pots. With my last GFS kit I drilled the body and went with a string thru and compensated saddles. That solved the tuning and set up issues.
Im not set up with a wood working shop so my next kit ill buy a predrilled body and neck and buy all the components seperate, rather then building a kit and upgrading everything.

This has been a Real Learning Experience. ( working with the GFS kit ). HardlyDang.. I think your assessment is right on.

For those who care, I left off thinking I should shorten the fretboard by .025" - .030" to make the intonation work better
for open string cords ( per the web site I quoted ). It is admittingly a big step, can't recover from that easily. So I thought I would make a temporary nut that "overhangs" the fretboard by the .025 -.030 and see if it made a difference.
( see image ) It DID make a nice difference! And this is still with the GFS strings just put back on. So now I will order
some bone nuts and make a decent nut to fill what-will-be
a wider nut slot. ( I made this temporary nut of of the piece
of headstock hard maple I removed in shaping the headstock.

When I went to move the bridge back ( away from the fretboard ) it uncovered the front of the bridge-pickup hole !
So I did what was suggested here and got a flathead screw
filed the underside so that it would sit mostly flush with the bridgeplate .. works OK.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.

My GFS tele kit build:

http://i.imgur.com/fsh24.jpg

- jo-anns green/blue paisley
- pickguard has john 15-17 from a 1611 king james reproduction.
- everything is stock.

Used mod podge to affix the fabric to the front and back, gave it about 5 or so layers, sanded it back and sprayed the entire body with minwax polycrylic, about 10 or so coats.

My brother-in-law cut the tele headstock on the neck and shaped it real nice, finished with tung oil.


Apart from the intonation problems, it's a great axe!

Apart from the intonation problems, it's a great axe!
I think this (http://www.guitarfetish.com/Wilkinson-Compensated-Tele-Bridge-Brass-Saddles_p_873.html) would fix most of your intonation issues with the fewest changes :wink:. And your right, it's a great looking guitar :smile:

jonphilpott,

Wow! That's really artistic! That's really "making it your own" :-)

I solved my intonation problems by doing what I said in a previous post ( not for the faint of heart ).

I cut .024" off the nut end of the fretboard. ( about 2/3 the width of a hacksaw blade ).
Then I ordered a couple of bone nut blanks and made a new nut to fill the now wider nut space.
-- This was not trivial ( I do not have nut files; they would cost more than the guitar!! ) I improvised with whatever I could find that were close to the right widths to make the string slots. A suggestion
on this forum to use a welder tip cleaning kit was useful, but they didn't get small enough. So I put a crosshatch pattern on the long edge of automotive feeler gauge ( to make like a little saw), with a dremel cutoff wheel for the B & E string slots.
Well damn if it didn't work like a champ! Open string intonation
sounds great! String height is good ( and even ), it all seems good.
So now I'll get back to learning to play and stop fussing with the guitar itself.

Perhaps you can measure with good calipers the distance from fretboard side of the nut to the middle of the first fret. The math for a 25.5" scale guitar calculates out to 1.431". Mine was 1.436", and if you ref one of my previous entries a Luthier says many if not most manufacturers make this distance about .020" shorter to help the open string intonation. Not only was mine not shorter, it was .005" longer than the formula! If yours is similar, perhaps a visit to a Luthier for a shorter fretboard and new nut would make your axe art really playable.

Perhaps you can measure with good calipers the distance from fretboard side of the nut to the middle of the first fret. The math for a 25.5" scale guitar calculates out to 1.431". Mine was 1.436", and if you ref one of my previous entries a Luthier says many if not most manufacturers make this distance about .020" shorter to help the open string intonation. Not only was mine not shorter, it was .005" longer than the formula! If yours is similar, perhaps a visit to a Luthier for a shorter fretboard and new nut would make your axe art really playable.

Thanks, now that I'm done finishing, I might be ready to take this on :)

Jonphilpott, I love the paisley tele. Any chance you posting a step by step tutorial? How did you get the edges of the fabric so crisp with no frayed edges? Please do tell!

It looks crisp in the picture, up close it's a little rough in spots :)

The secret I found was to build some layers of mod podge on the parts on the edge that were rough, I would say about 3 or so layers are required, and then sand it back using 150-220. At that point the fabric should be crispy enough where it can be sanded :)